30  Nov
Email from a fan

I received this email from a ‘fan’. In it he says that Occidentalism is racist on the level of a Nazi website, and that the problem with the world is people like me with sites like mine.

(note: if i sent this to the wrong address, then I am
very sorry. I am writing to an address I believe that
is the email of the starter of the site Occidentalism.
If you are not that person, don’t bother reading the
rest, just delete this message. If not, read on)

Shame on you.

I know that Korea has it’s faults. Yes, I am Korean.
But, can’t everyone just forget about rasicm? I mean,
it’s people like you who spread hate and disaster
amongest us. Its really, very, sad. Every country has
it’s faults. Right now Korea is being run by a
not-too-smart president. But Japan has it’s faults
too. And that’s no excuse to have an anti-korean site.

This is almost as bad, or as bad as the Nazi site I
stumbled upon.

And please, I know that you might post this on, and
laugh at my mistakes, and say that this e-mail is
ridiclous. But remeber to put this part on as well. I
will be checking on your site to see if you did do it.
And if you don’t post it, it doesn’t matter.

You know, it’s just people like you who spread hate.
There are people like you in America, Korea, Japan,
Australia, France, South Africa, India, everywhere. It
is not Korea’s fault, or Japan’s fault.

Please, stop this ridiculous site. It is disgusting.
This is not a hate mail. I know, this is another thing
that you will point out and laugh at. This is not hate
mail? What a hypocrite!!

No, I am writing to tell you that I believe that
racism is not the way to go.

If I did not make a difference, well, at least I
tried. If I did, I am happy to make a difference.

But whatever you do, do not ignore this message. And
lastly, I am sorry if you look at this message and
laugh me off. I truely am. Not for me, not for you,
but for how the world is completely messed up.

What a truely horrible site.

And one more thing.

I’ll bet that you post up only the most vulgar emails
from people imploring you to tear down this site. Post
this email as well, please.

-Anonymous-

I am not going to respond to this point by point. I think the readers know the difference between the reality, and what is written in that email.

Posted by Matt, filed under finger chopping wacky, Racist Industrial Complex. Date: November 30, 2006, 4:07 pm | 142 Comments »

142 Responses

  1. seouldout Says:

    Well, I’ll give the writer credit for the absence of profanity. But the writer can’t cite any evidence of hate/racism. I guess it’s all about those feelings rather than those facts that are too cold.

    Maybe it was the kites?

  2. smackout Says:

    Didnt Coreans invent writing letters? LOL

  3. tambe Says:

    I see no justification for calling this site a ‘hate-site’.

    I’ve been around the world, and lived in many different nations/cities etc. I’ve never, ever been to a country as racist and xenophobic as korea. And for a Korean to call this site, which blasts apart the stupid things that koreans believe, racist is the height of projection. “Dokdo” is a lie. Korean victim mythology is a lie. The “miracle of the han” was nothing more than favored access to the American consumer market. Every story that Koreans tell themselves about themselves is a lie. Add to this their cultural chauvinism, where they arrogantly believe that everything under the sun came from them, and we have a people would had better get used to being criticized for holding crazy beliefs.

    Koreans, you had better get used to more criticism. With increased globalization will come increased interaction with korean ideas and non-korean ideas. And the korean-ideas are ridiculous and bound to get stepped on, laughed at and shattered.

    Lastly, if I may rant. A few days ago some korean started talking to me in Malaysia. I took 1 minute before his garbage started. Stop spitting in other countries. Stop littering when on vacation. And nobody cares if you have 4-seasons. Do you understand that? Stop going around the world talking about how you have seasonal change. Who cares? Why in hell do you focus on this? Also, we don’t care about kimchi and how you think it cures every disease under the sun. It smells bad and tastes worse. And you are all going to die of cancer because of it. Kimchi causes cancer!

  4. tambe Says:

    That should be

    “It took 1 minute”

  5. ub Says:

    That e-mail expresses one characteristic of Korean ‘unrealists’. They only accuse someone to be RACIST, RACIST, RACIST repeatedly. BUT they never point out which entry contains the racist message, where corrensponds toward the racist remark and why it corrensponds to be racist.

    Another aspect, they really love Nazi. :-)

  6. ponta Says:

    I am getting sick and tired of the complaint from Korean people to the effect that this is the hate site because this site criticizes some aspects of
    Korea.

    For instance the newest post is about Dokdo. It points out the fact that Korean historian does not present the historical fact accurately and he is deceiving Korean people , and ultimately the post claims that Dokdo does not belong to Korea. But no Korean people point it out.

    Does that make this site an hate site?

    That might make this blog an hate site in Korea , since Korea is an society where a person who express an opinion different from Koreans will be ostracized.. But that is the one of the problem this blog has been pointing out.

    Korean people should join and discuss the issue together.

    If they disagree, that is fine. we can deepen understanding.
    If they agree that Korea society has a problem the author points out, they should speak out, then people will think,”Hey, Korean people also think as we do, then we don’t have to point out the mistakes they are making, maybe we can leave the issue to them.”

    Recently, this-is-a-hate-site complaint is increasing. Does that mean Vank and Killzap have decided to silence this site because the site is telling the
    truth about Korea, the taboo, which no Korean dare to speak about? If that is the case, they should know that it make Korea look really bad.

  7. smackout Says:

    Does anonymous care to debate this by leaving a comment?

  8. Errol Says:

    We’ve been through this before with “claire”. If Occidentalism.org is a hate site it would have been closed down long ago by the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission.

    Quoting again the burden of proof:

    The complainant is responsible for proving that the act was done in public, that it was done because of his or her ethnicity and that it was reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate a reasonable person of that ethnicity.

  9. Psychoicy Says:

    There is no doubt that everyone is at least a little bit racist and may have made few racist comments or laugh at a good racist joke (a good racist joke?) in their lives. However, this site does not promote or justify the notion that Korea is inferior to other countries or Koreans are inferior human beings. This has been my main source of information about Korea, and I have been reading this site for a year, but I still have nothing but the greatest respect for Koreans who have worked hard to build a great nation that they love and cherish. At least for me, this site is not spreading any hate or convincing me of anything else.

    To give the author of the letter some credit though:
    1. The information on this site is not objective (i.e. value or motivation free). There is no doubt that matt is passionate about certain Korean related social issues and that he wants to expose and criticize specific Korean related social/cultural problems. The majority of content on this website is to convince, justifiably, the readers that certain social issues related to Korea are problematic or inappropriate. Of course, nothing is objective. Knowledge itself, as demonstrated through the Doko debate, is constructed by power, special interests, and deep seated social values. A solution for the scholars has been to identify their own values and recognize how they have influence the knowledge they have constructed.
    2. The language used by matt is often politically incorrect, and sometimes, his claims are normative (i.e. containing moral statements about the way things should be). The latest example of this can be seen in the “Now Confucius is Korean”. “Koreans also say Samurai…originate in Korea” is a generalized claim about Koreans. “Korea should promote their own culture overseas…” is a moralistic claim. Being careless with the use of language would be a significant issue if you consider the increase of emails accusing this site as racist as a problem. I understand that political correctness is often over-zealous (and boring to read!), but paying little bit more attention to PC may avoid problems such as claims that can be interpreted as racist or ‘common sense’ arguments, which may be seen as imperialistic.
    3. It is possible that the author may confuse the comments as a part of matt’s opinion or at least as evidence that the content of the site is causing anti-Korean sentiment.

    I think it’s safe to assume the writer of this letter has only read the latest posts and do not know or understand matt’s true gripe with Korea. Putting myself in his shoes, this site would give me the impression that matt does not think highly of Korea and says a lot of things that can be insulting for a Korean to read. In addition, matt may also have successfully persuaded others in believing the same thing. I can see how I could get frustrated. However, I would also be misinformed.

    I suggest that few paragraphs be written about matt’s view and beliefs about Korea and what he plans to accomplish with this site (maybe in the ‘about’ section, which is still empty), as a way to inform readers, especially Koreans, so they are able to read the content of this site in the proper context.

    If advocating for social and political change is one of the aim of this site, I think my suggestion would also increase the credibility of the information at hand and make it less offensive for Korean readers who may otherwise be resistant.

    But how about Killzap or other hate spreading Korean sites!? Well, that is no excuse for our own professional decency and scholarly vigour.

    - Christine

  10. GK Says:

    To a person who has only studied in Korea (anything other than English) this may seem like a hate site – because – in Korea the concept of ‘critical analysis’ of one’s own does not exist in the same way as it does in the West. For example, I studied sociology as part of my original degree and I can assure you students analyzed and pulled apart out own culture far beyond anything that is contained here.

    What you – OP – are not familiar with is the method of critical thinking and analysis that is part of cultures other than Korean.
    From my experience as a teacher (both here and overseas) is that this inability to look beyond what you have been told to memorize inhibits the ability to grasp concepts in an analitcal manner – worthy of debate.

  11. bearvalley Says:

    reference materials

    http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2003021117138&path_dir=20030211

    http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200302/200302130023.html

  12. MarkA Says:

    Racism is the Korean woman in the childrens’ dental clinic who told her daughter of pure K-aryan blood, when she wanted to hug my half-blood daughter, “Don’t touch her, she’s dirty.”

  13. rowan Says:

    to the author of the letter,

    people above have made some very good points.

    there is no such thing as objectivity.

    debate requires difference of opinion and ultimately wil only serve to make us better.

    unfortunately it seems to be a common trait of NE asian nations that they are very poor at calm rational debate.

    having said that there will be people who find it easier to change the topic or attack you personally. it’s the internet they will always be there, just ignore them. but please come back and discuss things you have an opinion on.

  14. ponta Says:

    Psychoicy
    Overall I have no objection but one minor point .

    Of course, nothing is objective. Knowledge itself, as demonstrated through the Doko debate, is constructed by power, special interests, and deep seated social values. A solution for the scholars has been to identify their own values and recognize how they have influence the knowledge they have constructed.

    It might be interesting to study how “power, special interests, and deep seated social values” have been making Korean historians keep distorting, misinterpreting historical documents and maps. But in case of Dokdo, the context is determined, the topic is definite, and there is objective criteria, or at least , inter-subjectively agreed criteria to judge the title. And that is all there is to it.
    Reading Gerry’s posts about Dokdo, even Foucault would agree that Dokdo belongs to Japan.

    (I think some of post modern thinkers went too far as to the historicity of the Knoweldge. It is an interesting topic though).
    ………………………………………………………………………….
    And I am suggesting Korean people to join the discussion. That is the best way we confirm what counts as ‘objective”
    They come, and shout out “this is a hate site!!” and when it comes to the discussion, they ‘ll leave, saying they are busy or something like that..

  15. tomato Says:

    Matt,

    The fan letter only shows that you gotta have this site going on…

    One comment about this…

    The latest example of this can be seen in the “Now Confucius is Korean”. “Koreans also say Samurai…originate in Korea” is a generalized claim about Koreans.

    NO, this is not generalized. Enough Koreans are claiming this to make it rather annoying. Under-emphasizing the Korean zeal on denying everything Japanese is, basically, running away from the truth…it is as real as the sun shining in the sky…you can see it in major Korean newspspers, and I have seen Koreans claim these kind of “origin” stories…

  16. kpforce Says:

    As Korean myself majoring psychology and East Asian studies in UCI, I would like to point out that this site is very interesting source for me to look up different views and stories regarding complex East Asia’s history issue. I have been reading what you guys discuss here and I used some of the materials from this site to write research paper for my classes. I also want to point out I generally do not see racism from the comments but I am pretty sure there are some emotionally explicit expression like what Tamble mentioned “And you are all going to die of cancer because of it. Kimchi causes cancer!” Obviously depends on how one interpret this it could be racist comment or just way of expressing disgust feeling toward Korean. Anyway I just want to tell all of you people here that what you see from one dominant group of Korea is not representation of whole Korean. I know there are more anti-Japanese people but also at the same time there are Korea who aware of Korea’s self inductive nationalist movement. As Korean immigrant myself I noticed that there are so many Korean in here in US, especially the second generation show hatred toward own ethnicity. Many of you wonder why Korean is so narrow mind right? I cannot answer everything in here but I can may be answer couple of problem relate to Korea since my graduated final research was related to psychopathology of Korean immigrant and acculturation stress. First problem in Korea is coming from politicians, second it comes down from militaristic social structure, and lastly wrong perception of racial superiority. Also, I know there are racism exist in Korea not the same level you see in US but it is totally different. Like what Matt say from his experience, many Korean think ethnically mixed or black are inferior than themselves and often look down on them. However, like I mentioned previously not every Korean think same way, so do not assume every Korean do same. I have Japanese girl friend and lived in US for more than then years now and I personally know more than hundreds of Korean who knows how fucked up Korean society is and we all trying improve it. Look how America’s social atmosphere back in 50’ and 60’; there were full of racism and prejudices in the society but it is different now. Therefore I just want to say don’t be so pessimistic about future of Korea society because you never know how its society will change because Korea is still developing country.

  17. mattrosencrance Says:

    Koreans racist? Nah… you’re kidding me!

    Since so much has been said already I’ll try keep it short:

    1) This site is fantastic and kept me sane while living in Korea. When everyone around you is telling you that a that 2+2=5, you have to get your Occidentalism on to remember that no matter how many times their particular brand of nonsense is uttered, that caving to a multiculti tolerance of that nonsense only encourages it. Hell, they even try to predicate policy on it.

    At the world cup how many Westerners did you see in Dokdo or Be the Reds shirts? One would have been too many.

    2) For Koreans racism is only racism if it’s directed at them. A common student of mine and another lecturer once asked me what she should write for the other teacher on the overly broad topic of racism. After I cited a few conventional examples, I mentioned how certain Gangnam and Apkujeong restaurants and bars had put up “No Americans” signs, although they were rejecting all white people. She couldn’t understand how this was racism and went on to very gently me that white people, Americans especially, were troublemakers. She did this knowing full well that I fit into both catergories.

    I don’t get that boistrous.

    GK has summed up above, what I think is the inherent cause of this kind of thinking.

  18. bulgasari Says:

    .

    I am not going to respond to this point by point. I think the readers know the difference between the reality, and what is written in that email

    This seems to remind me of what a certain blogger that someone other than you exposed (though you took credit for) who wrote “Get minions to serve as attack dogs.” Which makes sense, of course, considering that you seem to be entirely unable to argue the point yourself, or may perhaps be too busy to actually source the material you use, or, in this case, dont use, to “prove” your point.

    This post is an example of condescension to the worst degree. What was the point of posting this if you weren’t going actually respond to the writer? Ah yes, he/she simply isn’t worth responding to, as he/she is such an idiot. Worth your time to post on your site to ridicule him/her, but not worth the time to actually respond to the claims made in the email. 그냥, just feed them to the attack dogs who make up the most of your undiscerning loyal readership.

  19. Errol Says:

    bulgasari Said:

    December 1, 2006 at 2:35 pm

    This post is an example of condescension to the worst degree. What was the point of posting this if you weren’t going actually respond to the writer?

    This is the worst type of ethnically insensitive post possible on an Australian site. It’s Kricket season not Korean season!

    kpforce Said:

    December 1, 2006 at 12:45 pm

    As Korean myself majoring psychology and East Asian studies in UCI, I would like to point out that this site is very interesting source for me to look up different views and stories regarding complex East Asia’s history issue. … First problem in Korea is coming from politicians, second it comes down from militaristic social structure, and lastly wrong perception of racial superiority.

    When I write “Korean” rather than the more accurate “some Koreans” I am sometimes guilty of conflating the “Korean system” with “Korean people” within that system. As kpforce has noted this raises the problem of how to “live long and prosper” within the context of the “Korean system.”

    Those who do not “stay long or prosper” are Korean emigrants like kpforce and his parents and naive foreigners who are endlessly ripped off by those who are by virtue of yangban genetic superiority more cunning.

  20. ponta Says:

    Kforce

    Anyway I just want to tell all of you people here that what you see from one dominant group of Korea is not representation of whole Korean. I know there are more anti-Japanese people but also at the same time there are Korea who aware of Korea’s self inductive nationalist movement.

    Don’t worry I don’t think all the Korean people are like the dominant group but it is just the dominant group including some of Kyopo is so impressively hateful that it is sort of inevitable for them to be backfired.
    The problem is that those who has balance remain silent and let ultra nationalistic Korean do as they want. I think Koreans and kyopo should speak out that ultra nationalistic Koreans are wrong.

    As Korean immigrant myself I noticed that there are so many Korean in here in US, especially the second generation show hatred toward own ethnicity

    Interesting. In Japan, some of 2nd and 3rd generation Koreans are beginning to speak out the fabrications Koreans made up about the colonization and situation of Koreans in Japan after WWⅡ.
    I hope Kyopo worldwide will start working at it.

    bulgasari

    Which makes sense, of course, considering that you seem to be entirely unable to argue the point yourself, or may perhaps be too busy to actually source the material you use, or, in this case, dont use, to “prove” your point.

    What is the point?
    I think people have right to judge what is worth responding point by point.
    I find your point harder to understand when you yourself selectively quote Bishop, Isabelle,Angus Hamilton etc out of context to make the Korea look as if it was advanced enough without help from other nations to develop itself on its own .(I find your blog very interesting though.)

    Though the Koreans of today are the product of centuries of disadvantages, yet after nearly a year spent in the country, during which I made its people my chief study i am by no means hopeless of their future, in spite of the distinctly retrograde movements of 1897, Two things, however are essential.
    Ⅰ As Korea is incapable of reforming herself from within, that she must be reformed from without.
    Ⅱ That the power of the Sovereign must be placed under strict and permanent constitutional checks. Bishop p452Note that this is written after the second trip in 1897)—this is her thought after seeing Korea’s sanitation became better)

    .

    for Angus Hamilton, no question of the superiority of Korean living conditions, both urban and rural, to those of China, if not Japan. “Seoul,” he wrote, “was the first city in East Asia to have electricity, trolley cars, water, telephone, and telegraph systems all at the same time.” Most of these systems were installed and run by Americans……..note the indexes that the American Hamilton chooses to highlight: electricity, telephones, trolleys, schools, consumption of American exports, and cleanliness. If we find that Japan brought similar facilities to Seoul and Taipei, do we place them on the ledger of colonialism or modernization? The Korean answer is colonialism; the Japanese and Taiwanese answer is modernization(Bruce Cumings)

    No unbiased observer can deny that Korean owes the loss of her independence mainly to the corruption and weakness of her old national administration.(Makenzie )

    bulgasari wrote

    What was the point of posting this

    For me it was an interesting post whatever Matt’s point may be.
    Did you get this kind of a hate e-mail when you posted an article criticizing Kenkanryu you didn’t even read? It is characteristic of many of ultra nationalistic Koreans to try to silence the writer by calling him/her anti-Korean, racist, etc. avoiding peaceful debate in public. As a result, Gerry was in substance silenced about Dokdo. That is an big problem.

    just feed them to the attack dogs who make up the most of your undiscerning loyal readership.

    Is Matt feeding the reader to attack him? Or the writer of the letter wrote something that should be attacked. If you want to defend him, I think you should do it.

    Nobody is free from bias, Matt at occidentalism is not free from bias Matt at guest of popular feelings is nor free from bias.
    If your post sound racist, then you will be criticized, or fewer people will read it. If your post echos the leftist ideology, more leftist oriented people applaud your blog.
    For some reason, I think Occidentalism is read from the leftist to rightist.
    For each post, there is a comment section, anybody is free to criticize the post. I think that is fair.

    Rather I would like to ask what the point of your comment was.

  21. bulgasari Says:

    Rather I would like to ask what the point of your comment was.

    To be honest, I was just in a bad mood, partly because I had spent a few hours talking to people like the guy who wrote the hate mail above. After spending hours bringing up facts and figures to support my views and, y’know, actually argue the point about some sensitive topics (prostitution in Korea, for example), this post and the lack of a response simply struck me as very lazy and reminded me of the ‘attack dogs’ quote. For whatever reason it just struck a nerve and I overreacted. For that, and especially for the ‘undiscerning loyal readership’ remark, I apologize.

    If you want to defend him, I think you should do it.

    Umm, no, I disagree with him. I don’t consider this site racist, and though it may attract Korea-haters in the comment section, there are likely just as many to be found in English teacher forums about Korea. Of course, such forums don’t deal with sensitive ‘nationalist’ topics like this site does, and so this site gets more attention. While Matt and I would likely differ a great deal on our perceptions of the colonial era (though I certainly don’t think that era was 100% ‘bad’ by any stretch), I imagine our views regarding Korean nationalism and emotionalism (is that a word?) aren’t so different.

    I find your point harder to understand when you yourself selectively quote Bishop, Isabelle,Angus Hamilton etc out of context to make the Korea look as if it was advanced enough without help from other nations to develop itself on its own.

    Where did I argue that Korea “was advanced enough without help from other nations to develop itself on its own”? Matt showed “before” photos of Korea before any kind of modernization began, and then showed “after” photos from the latter half of the colonial period to show how backwards Korea was and how much Japan modernized the country in a material way. The photos (many of which were misattributed) are very selective and show Korea in the worst light while making Japan look very good.

    I used photos and quotes from Bishop and Hamilton to show, among other things, that modernization had started before Japan took over, much of it with help from American or British contractors, and that Japan could not take credit for all of Korea’s modernization. Those quotes are not out of context at all. Bishop and the others are correct that Korea lacked strong, forward thinking leadership, but what does that have to do with the fact that Korea was beginning to see material improvements? You’re conflating material and political development. If you want to argue that both kinds of development should be looked at together, please do, but Matt himself did not not bring up political development in his post, so why would I bring it up in my response to him?

    Racism is the Korean woman in the childrens’ dental clinic who told her daughter of pure K-aryan blood, when she wanted to hug my half-blood daughter, “Don’t touch her, she’s dirty.”

    That’s terrible. A friend of mine is moving to an area with a school for mixed race kids because of the problems his son has been having. They recently went to a conference for mixed race families and there they met several other families, one of whom told him stories about their son. This boy was, in the schoolyard, made to lie down on the ground as a line of kids walked on him, while another time he was forced to go around the schoolyard acting like a beggar. To this my friend asked, “Where do little kids learn to treat someone like that?”

  22. Matt Says:

    Bulgasari, actually I did not respond because the author of the fan mail declared that I would write about it ridiculing it. The writer also requested that I post the mail. So I posted the mail without much commenting on it. It certainly was not my intention to be condescending. I would point out that even though the fan mailers actual name appeared in the senders header of the mail, I did not include the actual name because he clearly displayed his wishes by signing “anonymous”. If the mail was nastier or contained threats, of course I would have posted that too.

    Feel free to email me on [email protected] if you want me to further elaborate on this.

  23. Ocebey Says:

    Nobody is free from bias, Matt at occidentalism is not free from bias Matt at guest of popular feelings is nor free from bias.

    I think Ponta gave a real good explanation here. Yup this site is Biased. Probably a little pro-japanese, pro-US and Anti-Korean.
    But that is not hidden from the start by Matt who clearly show his way of thinking in the Faq section.
    Considering you’ll find all kind of bias in every sites who discuss about theses issues this is quite normal (especially considering the bias we see here is quite small).
    Personnaly i prefer to see a well shown bias from the start. It shows the writer is not trying to deceive you and force you to check what is beeing said rather that instantly accepting everything that’s beeing said as the ultimate truth.
    Of course if everytime you check you see the person tried to decieve you you’ll stop going there… And now i have to admit i hardly ever go to read pro-SK sites anymore… Not that they lacked bias mind you.

    Now beeing neither Japanese nor Anglo-Saxon i have to say i do sense in either matt of others who write here condescendance toward Koreans (which Anglo-Saxon may not realise). But for it to be sensed as rascism makes me wonder if those who say this site is a Hate-site or a rascist site may not be overly sensitive (a little bit of paranoia maybe).

    Anywau continue with the good work Matt.

  24. ponta Says:

    bulgasari

    I used photos and quotes from Bishop and Hamilton to show, among other things, that modernization had started before Japan took over, much of it with help from American or British contractors, and that Japan could not take credit for all of Korea’s modernization. Those quotes are not out of context at all. Bishop and the others are correct that Korea lacked strong, forward thinking leadership, but what does that have to do with the fact that Korea was beginning to see material improvements? You’re conflating material and political development. If you want to argue that both kinds of development should be looked at together, please do, but Matt himself did not not bring up political development in his post, so why would I bring it up in my response to him?

    Fair enough, though I still think a couple of your articles about pre-colonial period , though pretty good, might have given impression as I described.

    Yes, material and political development are distinct but they are closely related. Just a look at difference in the development of North Korea and South Korea will be sufficient enough to see the point. And material development you are talking about took place after Japan opened the port of Korea. And I am not sure if Korea without annexation could have developed as much as it did under Japanese rule.

    Don’t take me wrong, I am not saying Japan should take all the credit for the development. For my part, I want to see it as the product of the corporation between Japanese and Koreans. By looking at it that way, by emphasizing that aspect, there will be more possibility Japan and Korea go well together for the future just like Japan and Taiwan. Interpretation is embedded in how you look at the present and the future. I don’t deny that there was a dark side to the lives under Japanese government……there is an aspect under which Japanese and Korean as well suffered under Japanese government at the time, and there might have been suffering unique to Korean lives under colonization, but Korean historians have been emphasizing and exaggerating it too much without substantial evidences. And as a result, younger generation can not get away from the idea of Koreans as eternal victims.

    I am looking forward to your article about “black umbrella”. I think the testimony needs to be backed up with other collaborating evidences but the book seems to give an interesting perspective.
    Thanks

    p.s. I am relieved to see the response to Mark A; not all Koreans are racist. And if more Koreans make such an comment, I think Korea’s image will drastically change.

  25. Errol Says:

    Condescending?

    What’s more condescending than the trick, used by yangban-style Koreans, of ad verecundiam?

    That being yangban-style Korean (therefore superior genetic stock. A belief engendered by a corrupt education system as noted by modern Koreans*) and an attendee at a famous (yangban-style) university, logically means that one is more knowledgeable about Korean society.

    No. It doesn’t.

    Provide independently verifiable evidence with logical inferences and forget about this arrogant ad verecundiam.

    The letter below is by a little lamb lost prey to the ruthless and arrogant yangban Koreans who control Korea’s education system.

    Foreigners know nothing about modern education systems? Where does Noh Mu-hyeon send his son to school?

    * Stressed by aimless education policy

    I’m a second year student in high school, and just like all my peers all my time and effort are devoted to studying to get into a good college. We are the first group to come under the new college entrance system. What really worries us is not the changed college entrance system; it is the uncertainty created by continuously changing education policy.

    The changes started when we were in third grade in middle school. To tackle the problem of soaring private education costs, change was introduced to strengthen the public school system. The education ministry announced that it would adopt a relative evaluation system to replace the existing absolute evaluation system for school grades.

    Test formats were changed to include writing tests, discarding the old short-answer problems. Upon hearing the news, I was full of hope thinking I could go to any high school if I did well. A lot of my friends who were qualified to enter prestigious foreign language high schools chose instead to attend regular high schools to get good grades. But with continuing changes of policy we grew bewildered. In defiance of governmental measures to equalize high schools, universities responded by including essay writing and speaking skills in their entrance tests.

    Moreover, the importance of the Korean SAT in the system kept growing. We found ourselves stuck between the “deadly triangle” of school grades, the Korean SAT and essay writing.

    There was more ahead of us. From the moment we entered high school until Seoul National University announced its 2008 guidelines for entrance, we have been like little lambs lost. For example, everybody expected a large number of students would be accepted by early decision in the first semester.

    Unexpectedly, however, that option completely disappeared from the system. It is impossible to keep up with the changing policy, and we naturally depend more on private after-school programs, paying 50,000 to 2 million won. Many parents, including mine, complain about the burden imposed on top of what’s already a heavy load. We are left with no choice. Clearly we have been failed by the aimless education policy; innocent students and parents are driven from pillar to post in a game without rules.

    Now as my generation of high school students focuses attention on college entrance, we are nervous, not knowing how the education system will change again. We end up having to cut sleeping time to no more than 5 hours a day. I bet this was not what the education ministry had in mind when it first announced changes in the system. The worst aspect of this system is not the massive amount of work we have to do. It is the absence of clear directions for us to follow.

    by Lee Hyun-ju

    Joongang Ilbo
    October 31, 2006 KST 16:27 (GMT+9)

  26. Errol Says:

    Ocebey Said:

    December 2, 2006 at 9:04 am

    Anyway continue with the good work Matt.

    The good work being to provide valuable information for foreigners that is counter to the propaganda line spewed out by yangban-style Koreans and their acolytes and to provide a forum for modern Koreans like Lee Hyun-ju – the hapless lamb who is prey to the
    yangban-style wolves of the Korean night.

  27. pekau Says:

    For those who wish for me to proved evidence that Dokdo is Korea’s… give me your email. I will send accurate information about why Dokdo belongs to Korea… which was done by American studnets in Havard. One of the researcher was the brother of my good friend who attends Havard University as student. The most recent claim for Dokdo to be part of Korea was agreed by Japan after WWII. Japanese Empire, defeated by Americans in WWII, lost vast amount of land in Amerian according to “Japanese Instrument of Surrender” treaty signed in 1945. America, wanting to strip down Japanese power, gave Korea right to own Dokdo. But Japan is arguing that South Korea has no right because the treaty was signed to Korea that was unified and is not valid. Excuse me? South Korea is the recongized Korea by America who signed the treaty. Just because Korea is not unified does not justify that fact that Japan could just take it away!!?

    I am actually having some serious debate in here…
    http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=255

    If you want to debate against me… THAT WOULD BE GREAT! I love debating… not just on Korean matters, but regarding other historical events and culture as well. You see, I am obsess with history. I try not to be biased, and I do that pretty well. All culture and nations are unqiue, but that does not necessary mean that one is better. I oppose anti-Korean opinions, and vice versa.

    P.S. My English is not very good. Moved to Canada about two years ago. If there’s misunderstanding… let me know.

  28. pekau Says:

    And as a Korean, allow me to apologies for many foolish moves and comments that some Koreans made. I visited Hall of Shame and… mein Gott in himmel… bonk can’t even insult properly. I hope intolerable attitudes that some Koreans made will not make damage the unique ness Korean culture to shame.

  29. ponta Says:

    pekau

    For those who wish for me to proved evidence that Dokdo is Korea’s… give me your email. I will send accurate information about why Dokdo belongs to Korea… which was done by American studnets in Havard

    Please,
    ponta_at_oocidentalism@yahoo.co.jp

    And is there any reason you can not publicize it?

  30. James Says:

    Pekau:

    [email protected]

    Please send me the study. It sounds interesting.

  31. kyopou.s. Says:

    what do you expect? korea is a developing country. ALL of the politicians of korea are corrupted. President Roh is a dumb ass. all of the politicians in korea are all airheads and retarded. they make President Bush look smart.

    Yes, korea`s mentality is outdated. maybe about 40 years behind the U.S.A.

    but not everything in korea is bad. the food is very delicious and healthy. the u.s.a. is outdated on knowing what food is healthy. americans are just too damn fat.

    Korean electronics are doing an excellent job. Samsung, LG, I-River and mobiBlue are great companies. Samsung and LG make great LCD and plasma television, DVD players, digital camcorders and home appliances such as microwaves and washing machines as well. Hyundai and Kia are on the list as one of the safest cars in the U.S.A. this year. It was on ABC News, MSN and Yahoo! as well.

    But korean politicians are slowing the growth of development in korea. the goverment is STILL brainwashing its people. South Korea claims it is a democracy, but not really.

    koreans need to be aware about the environment as well. they need to stop littering. people are littering everywhere. if the goverment is trying to brainwash its people, brainwash something useful that will make its country better and cleaner.

    but in terms of electronic products, korean products are doing a great job. samsung and lg phones rock!

  32. pacifist Says:

    Hi pekau,

    You wrote, “America, wanting to strip down Japanese power, gave Korea right to own Dokdo”.

    You must read all the history concerning the SF peace treaty.
    It didn’t include Takeshima/Dokdo in the list of Korean territory which was to be returned to Korea, it was intentionally deleted from the list by USA.

    It is apparent if you read the following data – written in chronological order.

    1) 29th January 1946 – SCAPIN 677 (placed Takeshima/Dokdo outside Japan)

    2) 22nd June 1946 – SCAPIN 1033 (blocked Japan from exploiting the adjacent ocean resources)

    3) 16th September 1947 – SCAPIN 1778 (the islets for use by the Allied Powers as a bombing range for the Far East Air Force)

    4) 19th September 1949 – SCAPIN 2046 (Abolished SCAPIN 1033)

    5) 14th November 1949 – a telegram from William Sebald to W. Walton Butterworth:
    “Article 6: Recommend reconsideration Liancourt rocks (Takeshima), Japan’s claim to these islands is old and valid. Security considerations might conceivably envisage weather and rader stations thereon”.

    6) 19th November 1949 – a letter from Butterworth to the Secretary of the State:
    “With regard to the dispositon of islands formerly posessed by Japan in the direction of Korea it is suggested that Liancourt Rocks (Takeshima) be specified in our proposed Article 3 as belonging to Japan. Japan’s claim to these islands is old and appears valid, and it is difficult to regard them as islands off the shore of Korea. Security considerations might render the provision of weather and radar station on these islands a matter of interest to the United States”.

    7) 29th December 1949 – 6th amendment of the treaty draft:
    “Article 3 1.The Territory of Japan shall comprise the four principal Japanese islands of Honshu, Kyushu, Shikoku and Hokkaido and all adjacent minor islands, including the islands of the Inland sea(seto Naikai); Tsushima,Takeshima (Liancourt Rocks), Oki retto, Sado, Okujiri, Rebun, Riishiri and all other islands in the Japan Sea (Nippon Kai) within a line connecting the farther shores of Tsushima, Takeshima and Rebun; the Goto archipelago, the Ryukyu Islands north of 29° N. Latitude, and all other islanls of the East China Sea east of longtude 127° east of Greenwich and north of 29°N. Latitude; the Izu Islands southward to end including Sofu Gan (lot’s Wife) and all other islands of the Philippine Sea nearer to the four principal islands than the islands named; and the Habomai group and Shikotan lying to the east and south of a line extending from a point in 43°35′ N.Lati- tude, 145°35′ E. logitude to a point in 44°N. latitude, 146°30′ E. longitude, and to the south of a line drawn due east on the parsllel in 44° N. Lati- tude. All of the islands identified above, with a three-mile belt of territorial waters, shall belong to Japan”.

    8) July 1950 – Commentary on Draft Treaty of Peace with Japan:
    (It also says that Takeshima belongs to Japan)

    9) 19th July 1951 – Korea wants amendment. Korean ambassador had a meeting with John Foster Dulles:
    “Mr. Dulles then inquired as to the location of the two islands, Dokdo and Parangdo. Mr. han stated that these were two small islands lying in the Sea of Japan, he believed in the general vicinity of Ullungdo. Mr. Dulles asked whether these islands had been Korean before the Japanese annexation, to which the Ambassador replied in the affirmative. If that were the case, Mr Dulles saw no particular problem in including these islands in the pertinent part of the treaty which related to the renunciation of Japanese territorial claims to Korean territory”.

    10) the last draft of treaty:
    “In the document footnote 2 above, Mr. Rusk continued : “As regards the island of Dokdo… this normally uninhibited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea”. (Korea had in the meantime withdrawn the claim to Parangdo.)

    11) 8th September 1951 peace Conference – (treaty coming into effect on 28th April 1952)

    12) 18th January 1952 – President Ree declared 海洋主権宣言
    (Japan made an objection on 28th January 1952)

    13) 1954 – “Report of Ambassador James A. Van Fleet”
    “Unilateral proclamation of sovereignty over the seas (Syngman Rhee line) is illegal.
    The United States had concluded Japanese sovereignty over the rocks.
    The dispute over the rocks might properly be referred to the International Court of Justice”.

    Addendum (Rusk’s document; 10th August 1951)
    Excerpt: “Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea.”

  33. hardyandtiny Says:

    fuck…how can people care so much about this crap

  34. pacifist Says:

    Dear hardyandtiny,

    crap?

    What are you calling crap?
    You must know the truth without prejudices.
    This problem concerning Dokdo is an obstacle for the true friendship between Korean people and Japanese.

    I

  35. kyopou.s. Says:

    everbody, korea has an obsession with the past. it is okay to study it, but need to look forward now. Make the country better. It’s just wasting energy. korea is a developing country, thats why they do not know what they are doing. koreans don’t know how to handle trash or obey traffic laws.

    korean products are great like Samsung, LG, SKC, I-River and mobiBlue. I never buy Japanese products or cars. I own all Korean and U.S. products ONLY! No Japanese cars either. But I do want to help Korea develop. that is why I will go to korea later and help work things out. korea is still very dirty and needs to be cleaned up.

  36. ub Says:

    > korea has an obsession with the past.
    >
    Yes. However, there are many ways to help Korea’s developing.

    To study Korea is also another way to help Korea.

    I guess that this blog has been very helpful to Korea for two reasons. The one reason is that this blog clear Korean obsession to people all over the world. And the another is that this blog have pointed out thier obsession sincerely. For the viewers of this blog, Korea clearly has the obsession with the past. However, if people arount the world do not understand the obsession and never point out it, Korea will never notice their obsession and never improve it by themselves. What really needed for Korea is to open their eyes by themselves. Only by doing so, Korea can become a matured developed country.

    I hope Korea can become friendly with today’s conflicting countries
    with each other.

  37. ponta Says:

    pekau
    I haven’t received e-mail yet. Has he not finished wrting the article on Dokdo yet?

  38. kyopou.s. Says:

    read this article from the Korea Herald. It is a good article. Go to this website:

    http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2006/12/06/200612060017.asp

  39. tomato Says:

    kyoupou,

    I don’t think the article is good…in fatc, it’s a little misleading. Korean electronics aren’t more expensive than Japanese ones. The’re much cheaper, and it seems like if one has enough money, they’ll buy Japanese or European brands (like Phillips). Motorola is doing pretty good…it even seems that Motorola has higher brand value than Korean ones (if someone wants to refute this, go ahead)

    And about advertising Korean culture to the world…why is this even necessary? I often see the Korean media talking about this, but Koreans have already overdone it. Nobody really cares whether Korea is great or not (or for that matter, whether China or Japan is cool or not..). If the product is good, people will buy it…people don’t buy things because it’s from some “cool” country…so the best thing to do is manufacture good products rather than engage in propaganda of your country being “great” (and never to engage in negative campaigns of other countires) . It seems to me like another displaced nationalism going on again.

  40. GarlicBreath Says:

    Good point Tomato, the article is full of inaccurate information and chest thumping.

    Finding cheep Korean products in the USA is not newsworthy. Why is there a need to lie and say that the products are more expensive then Japanese products. Are there even any American brand TV? Why do Koreans feel the need to read about how people will buy their products in the USA?

    I guess it must be strange for Koreans to understand that Americans will buy a product and not worry about the nations that manufactures it. This is why Koreans think its unpatriotic to buy a ford and Americans dont care and will buy a Hyundie.

    For me this is like free advertising for samsung. Here is another example.

    http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200611/200611290034.html

  41. kojibomb Says:

    tomato and others:

    I don’t think the article is good…in fatc, it’s a little misleading. Korean electronics aren’t more expensive than Japanese ones. The’re much cheaper, and it seems like if one has enough money, they’ll buy Japanese or European brands (like Phillips). Motorola is doing pretty good…it even seems that Motorola has higher brand value than Korean ones (if someone wants to refute this, go ahead)

    Actually, Korean brand, Samsung, prob has higher brand value than Panasonic, Motorola, Nokia etc since 2004.(prob not sony though ^-^ ) ummm here is an article from the magazine Wired… http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/samsung.html?pg=1&topic=samsung&topic_set=

    but even Sony is getting helped by Samsung now… so…

    its profit was higher than Sony, Panasonic, Motorola, and Nokia combined in 2004…

    and technology wise… just amazing… first in flash memory, dram, crt&LCD monitors…. 2nd in CRT TVs(??) 3rd in Cellular phones. I say that’s pretty good even though they make like everything electronic.

    I think other Korean brands sucks, but Samsung… is just great.

    Bad thing about this article though… this shows that engineers are not good at history…

    brutal Japanese occupation that lasted from 1905 to 1945 – its language suppressed, its palaces destroyed, its citizens forced to assume Japanese names

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/wired40.html

  42. tomato Says:

    One note that the Korean electronic companies seem to be importing high-tech parts from Japan and putting them together as their products…so when Korean electronic products sells well, so does Japan. I recall that Korea is the 3rd or 2nd best customer of Japanese products?

    I guess nobody can be the sole winner in this global market.

  43. sqz Says:

    日本語
    韓国語

    Watch a commercial of Samsong in Europe.
    There is Fujiyama.
    CMで富士山を映しているようでは、韓国の企業だと思われなくて当然だろ。
    It is natural that it does not seem that it is a Korean company in this.

  44. bad_moon_rising Says:

    The article “Korean culture overseas” http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2006/12/06/200612060017.asp is very similar to another Korean article “Korea Slow to Promote Food Industry Abroad” http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200607/200607120012.html published on July 12,2006. Both articles lament the assumption that Koreans haven’t done enough to “let foreigners experience and appreciate Korean food and culture.” However, it does not logically follow that if Country A dominates certain sectors of Country B with its products that the food and culture of Country A should also be widely popular in Country B.

    The world’s largest food producer, the Swiss company Nestle, operates some 500 plants in 77 countries and employs around 230,000 people. Last year’s sales totaled US$60 billion — more than even Samsung Electronics managed to pull in.

    Yet, you never hear the Swiss griping about the dearth of Swiss restaurants around the world. Nor do the Swiss boast about Nestle’s success in the same manner Koreans boast about Samsung.

    According to a study by the National Intelligence Service, there are over 12,000 Japanese restaurants in the U.K., 9,000 Indian and 7,000 Vietnamese, compared to a mere 50 Korean restaurants.

    12,000 Japanese restaurants versus 50 Korean restaurants in the UK. I very much doubt that the success of Japanese food and culture has much if anything to do with the Japanese government. Most of these restaurants are not owned or operated by Japanese. Even in the United States, most Japanese restaurants are not owned by Japanese.

    Ha’s 27-year-old son and sushi chef, Jason, is more direct. “They’re jealous because we own so many of the sushi restaurants now. For every five sushi restaurants owned by Koreans, there’s one owned by a Japanese.”

    “California rolls drive them to distraction” http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-japanfood2dec02,0,1540722.story?coll=la-home-headlines

    Koreans are lamenting a “problem” that the Koreans themselves have created. Koreans have gravitated to operating restaurants that are more profitable, i.e. serving food that is more palatable and it doesn’t include Korean food except perhaps as a side dish to Japanese food. The simple reason why Korean food isn’t as popular as other foods is that it doesn’t taste as good as those other foods to people outside of Korea. Promoting Korean food as health food isn’t going to work either.

    Westerners today are very much interested in diet and health food. If so, what could be better than Korean cuisine? Korean culinary art is well known for focusing on health food as well as a variety of vegetable dishes.

    If that is the case, why is it that Koreans don’t live as long as people in the US or Japan.
    Life expectancy at birth (years) Japan 81.2, Canada 80.1, Italy 79.7, Germany 78.6, UK 78.4, USA 77.7, S. Korea 76.8.
    IDB Summary Demographic Data – http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbsum.html

    Not all food is created equal. The solution isn’t more Korean intervention but less. Koreans need to allow localization of their foods even if it doesn’t suit their own tastes. Take the example of ramen in Mexico.

    Only 3 years old, León Gustavo Dávila Hinojosa is still learning to speak Spanish. But the precocious youngster already knows a bit of Japanese: “Maruchan.” …“With salsa!” he said exuberantly at the mention of his favorite noodle soup.

    “Where did the frijoles go? Ramen noodles take the salsa” http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/article.asp?CategoryId=14091&ArticleId=201507
    Ramen with salsa, something you would have a hard time finding in Japan. Ramen has become so pervasive that a national newspaper recently dubbed Mexico “Maruchan Nation.”

    What happens when Japanese attempt to promote Korean food and culture? We have the Japan Korea Kimchi Dispute http://www.american.edu/TED/kimchi.htm.

    It is a fact that about 80 to 90 percent of South Korea’s kimchi exports have gone to Japan for the last few years, according to Korean Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry.

    Japan was the primary country that enjoyed Kimchi. Other countries didn’t particularly care for it. But the Japanese modified it to suit their tastes and began exporting it to other countries.

    Japanese food companies have begun to make Japanese-style kimchi as kimchi has been getting popularity in Japan. Furthermore, Japan is expanding its share of the world kimchi market: today, the amount of Japanese kimchi export excesses that of Korean kimchi export.

    The Japanese-style Kimchi was more popular than the Korean version to consumers in countries outside of Korea. But the Koreans were reluctant to tinker with their own version and copy the Japanese.

    “Sushi, Russia’s new caviar” http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=1121. When sushi appeared in the New Russia ten years ago, Muscovites went crazy for it. Why? Because it was altered to fit local tastes. And the continued success of Japanese food has nothing to do with the Japanese government.

    The Singaporean chain, Sakae Sushi, is planning a $1m expansion into Moscow next year to capitalise on the trend.

    Chef Irina Illarionova of Yapona Mama:

    Of course, real Japanese food can be found only in Japan. Elsewhere, it is a combination of various local influences and is adapted to other people’s tastes. I believe there is nothing wrong with that.

    “More Than Just Raw Fish” http://www.go-magazine.ru/articles/show/630.

    The problem, namely the lack of enthusiasm for Korean food doesn’t lie with the Korean Ministry of Culture and Tourism, nor does the solution. If Koreans are really serious about promoting their food they need to allow others, including Japanese, to experiment and modify foods to local tastes and allow others to help promote Korean culture.

  45. bad_moon_rising Says:

    tomato Said:
    One note that the Korean electronic companies seem to be importing high-tech parts from Japan and putting them together as their products…so when Korean electronic products sells well, so does Japan.

    It’s not just parts but technology from Japanese companies. Hyundai vs. Toyota, complete with espionage. http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061127/FREE/311270002/1003&refsect=

    Shibuya, given the title of vice president, Hyundai-Kia North American Quality Center, arrived with a passel of materials detailing Toyota’s quality procedures. During his three years at Hyundai’s America Technical Center, Shibuya often gave PowerPoint presentations emblazoned with the Toyota logo, according to Hyundai sources and a recent lawsuit…. Added a Hyundai source: “It was not a few documents. It was binders and binders of information.” The individual spoke anonymously for fear of reprisal from the company.

  46. randomcow Says:

    and technology wise… [samsung are] just amazing… first in flash memory, dram, crt&LCD monitors…. 2nd in CRT TVs(??) 3rd in Cellular phones. I say that’s pretty good even though they make like everything electronic.

    So Samsung is doing what Japanese companies did back in the 60s through to the 80s – copying without much innovation. These days markets are lead by companies like Sony, Nintendo and Toyota. Samsung is still a “copy” company.

    Having said that,

    The world’s largest food producer, the Swiss company Nestle, operates some 500 plants in 77 countries and employs around 230,000 people. Last year’s sales totaled US$60 billion — more than even Samsung Electronics managed to pull in.

    Yet, you never hear the Swiss griping about the dearth of Swiss restaurants around the world. Nor do the Swiss boast about Nestle’s success in the same manner Koreans boast about Samsung.

    When was the last time you picked up a Swiss newspaper? For all we know it could be full of “Nestle is a great company” articles and advertisements. Australian mining company BHP used to be a source of pride for all Australians. Plenty of companies worldwide appeal to their contrymen’s sense of natinal pride. This method of marketing is not something unique to Korea.

    Promoting Korean food as health food isn’t going to work either.

    Westerners today are very much interested in diet and health food. If so, what could be better than Korean cuisine? Korean culinary art is well known for focusing on health food as well as a variety of vegetable dishes.

    If that is the case, why is it that Koreans don’t live as long as people in the US or Japan.
    Life expectancy at birth (years) Japan 81.2, Canada 80.1, Italy 79.7, Germany 78.6, UK 78.4, USA 77.7, S. Korea 76.8.
    IDB Summary Demographic Data – http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbsum.html

    That’s a pretty bold of you to draw that conclusion from those figures. The fact that Japan’s medical system overprescribes for even the smallest ailments wouldn’t have any effect on those figures, right? ;) At any rate, I think you’re not alone in drawing those conclusions – you’ve got the world’s uninformed masses on your side!

    RC

  47. GarlicBreath Says:

    JD Powers Vechicle Dependabilty study results: KIA Hyundie are at the bottom of the barrel.

    http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2006133.pdf

    But in the sub compact econobox KIA and Hyundie do well :)

    Guess which part will be in the Korean newspapers.

  48. tomato Says:

    Garlicbreath

    Interesting… the rankings of Japanese manufacturers are generally consistent with their brand image….Toyota and Honda on the top, Subaru and Nissan in the middle…and others following. MItsubishi had good brand name, but fell way behind because of the recall problems. .bad management kills.

    Interesting that Lexus is doing better than Toyota and Acura doing better than Honda…I guess if you pay better you get better cars from the same company.

    Mazda has Ford engines but is a little behind…I wonder why. Now check out Mercedes…I guess their brand name is worth more than the quality of the car…this kind of achievement is trully European! I guess it will take some while for Toyota(Lexus) to get to this kind of brand-image level!

  49. kyopou.s. Says:

    how many times do i have to say this, korea is a developing country. everybody knows that.. korea is just at that stage trying to develop. but i and my family members never buy japanese products at all. its either korean or american brands. As for cars, if I could get any car of my choice, it would be a Lotus, Jaguar, Mercedes or Volvo.

    i or my family don’t even own one single brand or product from japan.
    korea needs to get as much money into the country to develop more.

    also koreans need to be environmentally aware to keep the country clean. yes, politicians in korea are extremely stupid.

    with all the arguing here, it shows that people have different values and ideology. that is why you can also say that melting pot countries do not work. people with different values due to nationality, religion, etc… that is why koreans, stay in your own country, japanese, stay in Japan, chinese, stay in china, europeans stay in europe, latin americans, stay in latin america… then we would not have a problem and no need for riots to occur. that is also why we can see several inter-racial marriages and international marriages that end up in divorce. it’s very high. people have different values due to the difference of culture, nationality, religion.

    in my dormitory, when people from Asia that are set up with white americans, they do not get a long and the american asks for a new roommate. they do not like the smell of asian food and complain.

    so just stay in your own country and just work on making it a better place. Always put the garbage in the garbage can. plant trees and always recycle garbage. use public transportation as much as possible. at least koreans are not fat like americans.

    jeon hye bin, sung hi lee, jeon ji hyun, han chae young, choi ji woo, and lee hyori have the best tits. i want to suck them.

    like Michael Jackson says, “It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right just BEAT IT!” or what Depeche Mode says, “People are People so why should it be.” what about Tears for Fears, “Everybody Want to Rule The World”

    the hell with the past, just focus making each one of your country develop peacefully and be clean. that is the one thing that pisses me off about korea. littering is too fucking extreme. koreans need to also work on manners such as not alwasy cutting in line at the subway station, Burger King, post office and at the bank.

  50. GarlicBreath Says:

    Kyopo sez:

    You dont like Jap

    but i and my family members never buy japanese products at all

    Even though you say this

    the hell with the past

    You dont seem to like race mixing

    then we would not have a problem and no need for riots to occur. that is also why we can see several inter-racial marriages and international marriages that end up in divorce. it’s very high

    Why not just go back to Korea and you can be in the fatherland. You will help the economy and keep Korea pure.

  51. Calagatha Says:

    Pardon my irrelevant contribution…

    jeon hye bin, sung hi lee, jeon ji hyun, han chae young, choi ji woo, and lee hyori have the best tits. i want to suck them.

    Um no, most of those women are built like sticks.
    Since when did Lee Hyori have big tits?
    I guess they’re supposedly big for Asian standards.

    Give moi Anna Ohura,Kaoru Sakurako,Shoko Goto,
    Eiko Koike (She’s actually a 3rd generation Korean zainichi.),Emily Yoshikawa,Nana Masaki,Reiko Yamaguchi,Chihiro Inoue anyday.
    Now those are some women with some seriously fly bodies,
    Even by western standards.
    BTW WTF are you spitting about womens tits in the middle of your post?
    It just seems so random * out of place.

    that is why koreans, stay in your own country, japanese, stay in Japan, chinese, stay in china, europeans stay in europe, latin americans, stay in latin america… then we would not have a problem and no need for riots to occur.

    You do realize that South America & Europe it self are melting pot countries.
    Youm make it sound as if there are no Hatians in France, no Black/Africans in great britain., no asians in Finland,etc.
    One look at Brazil would tell you that not everybody in South America is “latino”.
    Hell Brazil happens to have one of the largest populations of Japanese outside of Japan.
    (Likewise Japan also has a rather large community of Brazilian minorities as well)

    To a certain extent China is as well.
    (China is a country full of many different ethnicities that were all united by China after being conquered by them.)
    Japan also has a mild assortment of ethnicities dwelling in their country, but the vast majority of them have been naturalized.

    like Michael Jackson says, “It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right just BEAT IT!”

    He also said that it doesn’t matter if you’re black or white.

    in my dormitory, when people from Asia that are set up with white americans, they do not get a long and the american asks for a new roommate. they do not like the smell of asian food and complain.

    And… your point is?
    I’m asian myself & I can’t stand the smell of asian food either.
    You make it sound as if that was an example of xenophobic racism based on cultural differences, but in reality the incident isn’t even worth noting.

    Some people hate the smell of mexican food others can’t stand Italian.
    That doesn’t mean that they can’t get along based on their differences…

    that is also why we can see several inter-racial marriages and international marriages that end up in divorce. it’s very high.

    The same can be said about “pure” blood marriages as well.
    What ever “pure blood” that means.
    (The majority of the world is mixed one way or the other.)
    You seem to only be looking at one side of the picture & completly ignoring the other half.

  52. ponta Says:

    Samsung is great.
    Keep it up.

    And keep in mind that however great Sony may be, it does not make me great. Mitsubushi has the recall problems recalled. and that gave it a bad name. Shame on Mitsubishi!!! but it does not give me a bad name.

    It seems many Koreans identity lies mainly in just nationality, or race and nothing more.

    Keep in mind nobody cares how many novel prize Americans get, when people is talking with an individual American, say, James. If you act elegantly, you’ll be judged accordingly. If you act hatefully, you’ll be judged accordingly, and some people infer from that , rightly or wrongly, that most of your nationality are like that. That is what you have to be careful. (I think you are acting nice. My request, though, is …. just tell your fellow Koreans, stop unreasonable anti-Japan-ism and assume the forward-looking way of thinking )

    Do you want to make your country famous all over the world? When you country finally becomes famous, be ready to get criticisms from all over the world at the same time…

    Pekau
    I am still waiting for your emai. Just give a notice on Occicentalism when you sent the mail so that the reader might not misunderstand you run away.

  53. pacifist Says:

    Dear Ponta,

    Why don’t you forget about pekau and come to this sight?
    http://gopkorea.blogs.com/flyingyangban/2005/04/warningnbsp_thi.html

    wedgie and JK are waiting for you!

  54. myCoree Says:

    Hello, sqz

    sqz Said:

    December 6, 2006 at 5:12 am

    日本語
    韓国語

    Watch a commercial of Samsong in Europe.
    There is Fujiyama.
    CMで富士山を映しているようでは、韓国の企業だと思われなくて当然だろ。
    It is natural that it does not seem that it is a Korean company in this.

    Could you visit this?
    http://blog.naver.com/manuelshin?Redirect=Log&logNo=20002412392
    http://blog.naver.com/manuelshin?Redirect=Log&logNo=20002412392

    There are another Fuziyama in Chile! Can you see it?
    I will not criticize you because you didn’t know the fact.
    But, your twisted viewpoint is problematic.

    I didn’t ‘run away’. I have a few things to give you.
    But, It’s not easy to write in English on Web.
    I will be back with Dokdo and Tsushima.

    Auf Wiedersehen

  55. myCoree Says:

    Oh, my mistakeshima
    http://blog.naver.com/manuelshin?Redirect=Log&logNo=20002461441
    There is one more view.

  56. tomato Says:

    There are another Fuziyama in Chile! Can you see it?
    I will not criticize you because you didn’t know the fact.
    But, your twisted viewpoint is problematic.

    Talking about making a fool out of oneself…

    P.S. Matt, don’t bann me for this one, I just couldn’t help but saying…

  57. Two Cents Says:

    sqz, myCoree,
    I believe the volcano in the CM is Mt. Osorno in Chile.
    http://www.interpatagonia.com/paseos/volcanosorno/index_i.html
    http://www1.tecnet.or.jp/museum3/scripts/GeoDsp4.asp?DSP=h2_3

    It does resemble Mt. Fuji. Samsung originally seems to have run the ad without saying what mountain it was, but it seems to have added the caption saying “shot in South America.” Maybe they received some complaints that using Mt. Fuji in an advertisement for a Korean company was misleading. MyCoree, I do not think that real identity of the mountain is important in this case. What Samsung did (or the ad company did) was to use a mountain that had a striking resemblance to Mt. Fuji, which is a very famous symbol of Japan. What will come into the minds of a person (mostly westerners, I guess) who sees the ad will not be “Oh, Mt. Osorno,” but “Mt. Fuji.” There is no way that nobody in Samsung realized the resemblance when they were given a prelimimnary view of the ad. Are they trying to pass for a Japanes brand or to ride the coattails of Japanese electronic companies? Well, you be the judge on that.

  58. sqz Says:

    tomato, Two Cents,
    Thank you.

    myCoree,
    You do not have comprehension.
    Is Samsung Chilian company?

  59. myCoree Says:

    Thanks, Two Cents

    I heard that Samsung is trying to change itself to be a multinational corporation which is applied to many companies in this world. But, in this CF, I do not know whether they have any intention to have a Japan image. I can’t judge it.
    One thing I can say is that it can be a assumption in the conclusion but cannot be a preposition of your debates that Samsung disguised as a Japanese corporation.

    失礼します ^_^

  60. tomato Says:

    One thing I can say is that it can be a assumption in the conclusion but cannot be a preposition of your debates that Samsung disguised as a Japanese corporation.

    typical “空論”

  61. myCoree Says:

    self-correction :
    preposition ⇒ premise;presupposition;a proposition (前提)
    (oh, my poor English! Sorry)

    空論? Anyway…
    Go ahead.

  62. kenyan98 Says:

    I say this because I am an American:

    Its funny how there are so many Anti-American site on the Korean network but its not right to have one that calls out the bullshit Korea spits out.

    Give me a freaking break. If you don’t want to read about what most of the world thinks about your self-pity, then go to an Anti-American site….like I said…there are pleanty. Ex: OhMyNews. Damn…i can’t believe that call that shit news!

  63. tomato Says:

    空論? Anyway…
    Go ahead.

    論理破綻 我田引水 自己満足 自己陶酔 厚顔無恥

  64. kyopou.s. Says:

    Anyways, why did Michael Jackson want to be white then?

    but listen up koreans. i hope there are koreans on this website and read my comments. “Pali Pali” is WRONG! that is why many things break in korea. CALM DOWN! smoke pot or something.. get some valium or whatever. Valium, Xanax and so on..

    SO koreans, this is what you have to do.

    1. ALWAYS put the garbage in the garbage can. Korea is still too dirty.
    2. In a traffic signal, red = STOP, yellow = CAUTION, green = GO!
    3. STOP LITTERING!
    4. CALM DOWN! pali pali is wrong. that’s why things break easy in korea. koreans, take xanax, valium, and so on. smoke pot or somethiing.
    5. BE OPEN MINDED. Koreans are too closed minded and have outdated thinking.
    6. Learn the meaning of democracy.
    7. Learn common sense manners. stop cutting in line.
    8. korean guys, your ego is too high, but nobody in the world knows about korea. koreans are so nationalistic, but nobody knows about korea, so clean up your country and be open minded. stop being so rude.
    9. Michael Jackson says, “Heal the World.” He came to Korea several times for concerts and attended kim dae jung’s inaugural as well.
    10. If koreans are so obsessed with their looks having plastic surgery, why don’t their care about their country’s negative reputation? clean up korea damn it!

  65. Fantasy Says:

    kyopou.s. seems to have a weird sense of humour…

    Never mind.

  66. one Says:

    Hi. おじゃまします。
    didn intend to join but whats being argued in this blog is simply interesting enough. Could I just pull it back to “hate-mail” person stuff?

    It was impressive for me, to see a korean fan reacted to even outside point of view to his/her culture in such a typical Korean manner, and to see more international and rational discussion than japanese-only/japp-korean endless one. I see it’s also one of the reasons this blog should exist and keep going.

    one thing,

    >ub Said:
    >December 5, 2006 at 7:56 pm
    >I guess that this blog has been very helpful to Korea for two reasons. >The one reason is that this blog clear Korean obsession to people all >over the world. And the another is that this blog have pointed out >thier obsession sincerely. For the viewers of this blog, Korea clearly >has the obsession with the past. However, if people arount the world >do not understand the obsession and never point out it, Korea will >never notice their obsession and never improve it by themselves. >What really needed for Korea is to open their eyes by themselves. >Only by doing so, Korea can become a matured developed country.

    Truly. I respect this idea.
    but,
    I dont know how many times people of the world suggested koreans to do so, and end up fed up with them. There are lots of notions about why koreans are so obsessed with history, culture, korean blood, etc… but I pose one that I think the most possible and reasonable.

    Their obsessions and many remarkable actions they take to justify those is simply the way they identify themself. In other words, whether politics in korea becomes better or not in future, their obsession and related manner will remain as their identity. They acts how they are in order for them to exist as who they are, therefore they are.

    I know it may sound silly and pointless, but what I want to stress is this↓

    Koreans
    Noone else really longs to devote his passion and life to Korea to develop their philosophy, culture, and reputation and trust in the worlds of globalization, but it is totally korea itself that came to do so. As the history proves, which korean cannot accept, one of them, Korea has got so much aids and supports for modernization from many many countries but never appliciated them, but used the outcomes to propagandize how great koreans are. That is not how “co-opperation” in the rest of the world works. I believe that one of mainstream idea of globalization is to respect the differences in culture and humanity, so it is impossible to share real relationship by that one forces another to become one-nized nation and obay whatever one says or something. Besides, for example, Japan did not intervention korean policy even knowing many anti-japan/ese movements going on for long long yr.(people are revealing quite few about korea, though.)
    Anyways, it is totally your choice to decide how you live with the world, or close your country, but, mental development does not come from outside. its not about us, its about you, isnt it? If you hope to become able to live with others, this time, prove yourself by yourself, and then others will recognize you as you hope.

    ↑…stuff like this. sorry for writting long one. 失礼しました

  67. myCoree Says:

    kyopou.s. Said:

    December 8, 2006 at 1:53 am

    I will answer to your ‘ORDER’ as an average Korean.

    1. ALWAYS put the garbage in the garbage can. Korea is still too dirty.
    ⇒ I don’t.
    2. In a traffic signal, red = STOP, yellow = CAUTION, green = GO!
    ⇒ I konw. I rarely don’t.
    3. STOP LITTERING! ⇒ I don’t.
    4. CALM DOWN! pali pali is wrong. that’s why things break easy in korea. koreans, take xanax, valium, and so on. smoke pot or somethiing. ⇒ I am a snail. Right?
    5. BE OPEN MINDED. Koreans are too closed minded and have outdated thinking. ⇒ I hope so. And you?
    6. Learn the meaning of democracy. ⇒ Do you know it? Very Difficult !
    7. Learn common sense manners. stop cutting in line.
    ⇒ This is what you did right now.
    8. korean guys, your ego is too high, but nobody in the world knows about korea. koreans are so nationalistic, but nobody knows about korea, so clean up your country and be open minded. stop being so rude. ⇒ #$%^&*
    9. Michael Jackson says, “Heal the World.” He came to Korea several times for concerts and attended kim dae jung’s inaugural as well.
    ⇒ So what?
    10. If koreans are so obsessed with their looks having plastic surgery, why don’t their care about their country’s negative reputation? clean up korea damn it! ⇒ Mind your own reputaion!

    You first made me angry. So, you won the game.

  68. tomato Says:

    MyCoree,

    I have a hunch kyopou is of Koran decent.

  69. kojibomb Says:

    tomato:

    … lol everyone is now off-topic… wtv

    One note that the Korean electronic companies seem to be importing high-tech parts from Japan and putting them together as their products…so when Korean electronic products sells well, so does Japan. I recall that Korea is the 3rd or 2nd best customer of Japanese products?

    I guess nobody can be the sole winner in this global market.

    yap… not only Korean electronic companies but also auto or other companies tend to get techs from Japan and sell them, but Samsung is different now. If you read tech magazines like Wired, clearly, Samsung tech is now better in most fields than Sony or other Japanese electronic companies. They cannot have more profit than sum of Sony Panasonic Nokia Motorola’s profits just by buying tech from Japan… the article i posted Even says that Sony is trying to follow Samsung…the two companies somehow run differently…

    Clearly everyone can see that Sony is getting bad… its revenue/profit/tech all declining… while Samsung is going UP. Sony should just copy whatever Samsung is doing like spending several billion dollars and more than 10 000 engineers from oversees for researches and etc. For samsung, they are the ones who are letting others to use their tech now… esp flash memory. If you buy an Ipod… guess what? most components are made by Samsung and Toshiba. Flash memory… Samsung for sure.

    Face the truth people… Samsung is not a “copy” company… I agree that other SK companies only “copy” tech design wtv to earn money but.. Samsung is now. Its revenue is little less than 50 bil when Sony and Panasonic are over 60 bil… but whatever Samsung is doing… is really successful. Samsung’s profit is more than Sony/Panasonic/motorola/Nokia combined!… can’t do that just by copying Japanese tech lol

    Everyone should fear Samsung… hehe Americans fear it (not SK though lol) the most in Asia next to growing China … why not you? it will take few years for them to gain Sony’ like “image” but… Samsung is def becoming the next Sony.

  70. sqz Says:

    Everyone should fear Samsung… hehe Americans fear it (not SK though lol) the most in Asia next to growing China … why not you? it will take few years for them to gain Sony’ like “image” but… Samsung is def becoming the next Sony.

    げげ。キモイ。
    まるで世界征服か何かと勘違いしてやがる。
    どうして共存共栄という発想にならんのか不思議だ。
    こういう狂った国粋主義者とは関わりあいたくないよ。
    もう英語にする気力もない。
    失礼した。

  71. claire Says:

    to: one

    It was impressive for me, to see a korean fan reacted to even outside point of view to his/her culture in such a typical Korean manner, and to see more international and rational discussion than japanese-only/japp-korean endless one. I see it’s also one of the reasons this blog should exist and keep going.

    do you really think this blog consists of people other than japanese or koreans? hahaha.

    i kinda like this site, its a little bias, but i guess thats okay. I will just assume that it is constructive criticism and that everyone wants korea to get better like japan. However, i don’t know if its smart for japanese people to throw around words like “lies” and “xenophobia”.

    Matt, I’m sorry for stating that your site is bias. please don’t ban me.

    happy holidays!

  72. bad_moon_rising Says:

    Face the truth people… Samsung is not a “copy” company…

    Sadly, not everyone realizes that Samsung is not a ‘copy’ company. ON Semiconductor Corp. is soundly of the belief that Samsung is indeed a ‘copy’ company.

    ON Semiconductor Corp. has filed a U.S. patent infringement suit against Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. and its U.S. subsidiaries alleging the infringement of four patents.

    In a complaint filed with the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas earlier this week, ON alleges that Samsung knowingly infringes ON patents covering:
    The circuit and method of timing data transfers;
    Programmable termination for ICs;
    Circuit and method of previewing analog trimming;
    and method and apparatus for adjusting plating solution flow characteristics at substrate cathode periphery to minimize edge effects.

    http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196602808

  73. Mika Says:

    kojibomb,

    Samsung isn’t the next Sony. They still can’t invent an iconic product like Sony’s Walkman, Playstation. After all, the rise of Samsung has been due to the heavy recruitment of Japanese engineers. Frash memory was originally invented by Toshiba in 1987 and Samsung secretly recruited Japanese engineers from Toshiba to steal their technology.

  74. one Says:

    claire

    thanx,
    As lomg as its occidentialism, I expected some views from outside. I see some japanese, koreans n kyopo here like other blogs, though still its interesting to see this discussion in English so more can see whats up.

    >i kinda like this site, its a little bias, but i guess thats okay. I will just >assume that it is constructive criticism

    There is no subjectivity without bias, bias in ultimate notion is needed to clarify one’s standpoint, esp when analyze a country or a group of people as a whole, and you know it well. and I like your style.
    (But I dont really think korea-should-get-better-like-japan-thing is realistic or the point of argument here. They can just be what they are till the end of the world, but just dont mess with others.)

    As Psychoicy mentionaed earlier, (December 1, 2006 at 12:55 am)
    >The information on this site is not objective (i.e. value or motivation >free). The majority of content on this website is to convince, >justifiably, the readers that certain social issues related to Korea are >problematic or inappropriate
    It explains the potential of this blog, not understandable to koreans but to everyone else.

    SN korean is such a young county (I dont see the point of differentiating S from N), and the process that they have come to take is the development of communication skills and democratic philosophy with sloughing off their conventional custom; disrespect others to respect themselves. It seems to me that koreans are just blindly hustling to cover them up with propaganda in order to fool thmselves and rest of the world. how weak.

  75. AkihitoMojito Says:

    Hey Yall,

    Sony versus Samsung–now that’s an interesting debate. Which is better? Hard to say, but everyone can see that Sony is on the decline while Samsung is getting better. Sony was a great company 20 odd years ago, but it seems to have missed the boat in the twentieth century. I’ll toss my hat in the ring and call this round for Samsung.

    Let’s look at the raw data:

    1. Samsung is the most profitable technology corporation on the planet.
    Period.
    2. Samsung Market Capitalization: 103 billion.
    Sony Market Capitalization: 39.9 billion.

    Takeaway Point: Investors believe that Samsung is 2.5 times more
    valuable than Sony.

    3. World Leader in Flash Memory Chip Production with 60% of the
    Market.
    4. Asia’s Largest Manufacturer of Mobile Phones.
    5. Asia’s Largest Manufacturer of LCDs.
    6. Leading innovator in the Mobile Phone, LCD and Memory Chip
    Industries.

    This data alone should be enough to convince even the most denial-laden Japan apologist that Samsung is the superior company.

    Here is an article from Wired Magazine with more info on Samsung’s growing dominance:

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/samsung.html?pg=4&topic=samsung&topic_set=

    I’ll excerpt the most interesting parts here:

    “Japan used to be the benchmark,” said D. J. Babani, a Dubai-based distributor who handles Samsung in the Persian Gulf. “Now Samsung has the upper hand, in terms of both technology and design.”

    I used to represent Sony, but I switched about four years back,” said Farooq Naseem, Samsung’s wholesaler in Pakistan. “Frankly, I did not see the value addition anymore. Samsung is defining the future.”

    Those who believe the accusation that Sony is the innovator while Samsung is the fast follower, would do well to remember these words:

    As for Lee, his vindication came at a Tokyo news conference in October 2003. With demand for flat-panel LCDs skyrocketing and Samsung the undisputed king, Nobuyuki Idei, then CEO of Sony, declared he would join with Samsung to produce the most-advanced LCDs ever at a new factory in South Korea. He also announced that Sony, its revenue and profits sliding downward, would finally attempt the cost-cutting moves Samsung had made years before, eliminating jobs, shuttering plants, and shifting much of its manufacturing to China. He also promised to put more focus on semiconductors, mimicking yet another Samsung strategy. Finally it was Korea’s turn to teach.

    That’s all she wrote. Samsung is the superior company.

  76. James Says:

    It wasn’t until I started actively taking an interested in Japan learning Japanese several years ago, that I realized Samsung was actually a Korean company. I assume that a huge percentage of Americans and Europeans probably think that Samsung is Japanese, especially when they are using commercials featuring mountains that look almost identical to Mt. Fuji….

  77. AkihitoMojito Says:

    Bad-Moon-Rising,

    I read your post and it is very obvious to me that you do not know much about the technology industry. Sad to say, the tech industry is one of the most unethical industries when it comes to intellectual property theft. Every major technology company employs corporate espionage, recruitment wars, unilaterally extending expired licenses, and a variety of other means in order to steal technology from rival companies. Microsoft is notorious from “stealing” the GUI idea from Apple, and Apple itself stole the GUI idea from an even smaller company. Shoot, Microsoft itself recently settled patent infringements suits against Burst, Real Technology Corporation and Novell.

    The basic point is that if indeed Samsung does steal technology, then it is practicing standard corporate policy in its industry. Sony itself is quite dexterous when it comes to stealing other company’s technologies.

    Here are some cases you should look at:

    1. Immersion vs. Sony.
    Summary: Sony stole techonology from Immersion for use in Sony’s
    sensation feedback controller. Sony lost the suit and was ordered to
    award 97.5 million dollars in damages to Immersion.

    2. Agere Systems vs. Sony
    Summary: Agere has filed suit against Sony claiming Sony stole a
    number of Agere’s semiconductor technologies for use in products
    including but not limited to PSP, PlayStation 2, and based on
    announced specifications, the PlayStation 3. Sony VAIO computers,
    Handycams, Walkman players, Memory Stick Duos, and Location Free
    TV

    Looking at the data above, while playing particularly close attention to the first case, I think a convincing argument can be made that Sony is actually the bigger thief of intellectually property. To date, I have never heard of Samsung having to pay anywhere near 97 million dollars in a patent infringement lawsuit case.

  78. empraptor Says:

    How many people in US associate images of Mt. Fuji with Japan? How many would see it and say oh, that’s in Japan? Americans who can’t tell the difference between Japanese and Korean companies most likely won’t recognize Mt. Fuji.

    Must a Korean company come out and state that they are based in Korea for the benefit of consumers ignorant of the differences between Japanese and Korean companies? If a consumer associates Japanese companies with reliability or quality of product and prefer Japanese products, shouldn’t the consumer realize that there are other countries in Asia that also produce electronics and avoid them?

  79. tomato Says:

    Mt. Fuji is associated with Japan. There’s no doubt about it. Just like Geisha, Ninja, Samurai, Harakiri, whatever. And so what if some Americans don’t know…those kind of people probably don’t kno where Japan or China is, anyways. The commercial can’t be meant for everyone. Don’t make too much perplexed arguments, guys…it just won’t work.

    The funny thing about is that Korens sometime use the image of Japan, even though they are committed to hating the same. That’s what’s so weird about it, and not that the Korean products are junk or whatever.

  80. claire Says:

    what’s mt. fuji?

  81. bad_moon_rising Says:

    what’s mt. fuji?

    Mt is an abbreviation for mount or mountain. Mt. Fuji = Mount Fuji.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Fuji

    Mount Fuji (富士山, Fuji-san?, IPA: [ɸɯʥisaɴ]) is the highest mountain in Japan. It straddles the boundary of Shizuoka and Yamanashi prefectures just west of Tokyo, from where it can be seen on a clear day. It is located near the Pacific coast of central Honshū. Three small cities surround it, they are: Gotemba (East), Fuji-Yoshida (North) and Fujinomiya (Southwest).

    Mount Fuji is a well-known symbol of Japan and is frequently depicted in art and photographs, as well as visited by sightseers and climbers.

  82. Mika Says:

    No polish yet on Korea’s brand image
    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200601/31/200601312209239709900090509051.html

    A recent brand recognition study by Samsung Electronics in France said almost 70 percent of consumers there thought Samsung was a Japanese company.

    What makes the majority of consumers believe Samsung is a Japanese company?

  83. James Says:

    I think to people unfamiliar with the Japanese language, which is almost everyone in America/Europea, they cannot recognized that “Samsung” is a non-Japanese name. For many years I had believed it to be Japanese based on the fact that it made electronics and had a “Japanese-sounding” name. I don’t think Samsung deliberately set out to trick consumers into believing they are a Japanese company, but they probably aren’t going out of their way to advertise the fact that they are Korean. While companies like Sony might be getting a lot of heat for quality flaws right now, for many years consumers have viewed Japanese electronics as high-quality products. Once could argue that Samsung has benefited from the consumer perception that they are “Japanese.”

    The same could probably be said for “Hyundai,” which uses the pronunciation “HUN-DAY” in it’s commercials in America. In my uneducated days I had also assumed it was a Japanese company based on the way it’s name sounds. Based on my own experiences, I wouldn’t be surprised if a majority of westerners also thought Hyundai was Japanese.

    As for the Mt. Fuji thing: Westerners might not know a lot about Mt. Fuji, but it’s one of the major popular images associated with Japan. I think that such an advertisement would invoke imagery of Japan in the minds of many viewers, regardless of whether they know the exact name of the Mountain.

  84. tomato Says:

    In Back to the Future Part III, Doc Brown back in 1955 finds a Japanese electronic device in the broken time machine, and points out that this (=made in Japan) must be the problem for malfunction. But Marty denies it saying that all the good electronics are made in Japan…

    It took Japanese companies many years and lots of investment to achieve their brand images…but I don’t think the Japanese business people engaged in self-glorification or exaggeration of their past accomplishments to achieve this…they just tried to make better products so it can sell. No need to make one look like some master race (what a sick idea!) or the inventor of everything significant in the world.

  85. GarlicBreath Says:

    AkihitoMojito

    . Immersion vs. Sony.
    Summary: Sony stole techonology from Immersion for use in Sony’s
    sensation feedback controller. Sony lost the suit and was ordered to
    award 97.5 million dollars in damages to Immersion.

    2. Agere Systems vs. Sony
    Summary: Agere has filed suit against Sony claiming Sony stole a
    number of Agere’s semiconductor technologies for use in products
    including but not limited to PSP, PlayStation 2, and based on
    announced specifications, the PlayStation 3. Sony VAIO computers,
    Handycams, Walkman players, Memory Stick Duos, and Location Free
    TV

    Looking at the data above, while playing particularly close attention to the first case, I think a convincing argument can be made that Sony is actually the bigger thief of intellectually property. To date, I have never heard of Samsung having to pay anywhere near 97 million dollars in a patent infringement lawsuit case.

    patent infringement lawsuits are common in the high-tech world. At any time there will be dozens of lawsuits against giants like Sony. However global price-fixing conspiracies are not so common.

    http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=25029

    Samsung was ordered in November 2005 to pay a $300 million fine.

    Samsung is corrupt.

    I smell Kimuchi….AkihitoMojito …..

  86. GarlicBreath Says:

    To date, I have never heard of Samsung having to pay anywhere near 97 million dollars in a patent infringement lawsuit case.

    http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/interdigital-wins-patent-dispute-against-samsung/2006-09-07

    InterDigital wins patent dispute against Samsung

    InterDigital Communications recorded another patent dispute victory. An arbitral tribunal said Samsung Electronics must pay a $134 million payment and interest on Samsung’s sales of various mobile-phone technologies through 2005.

    Who is the bigger thief? SAMSUNG.

  87. GarlicBreath Says:

    1. Samsung is the most profitable technology corporation on the planet.
    Period.
    2. Samsung Market Capitalization: 103 billion.
    Sony Market Capitalization: 39.9 billion.

    Takeaway Point: Investors believe that Samsung is 2.5 times more
    valuable than Sony

    AkihitoMojito, market cap and invester value are not the same thing.
    This should help:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization
    Stock price X shares= Market cap.

    In fact its well known that Samsung is under values because investors dont place a high value on Samsung.

    the “Korea discount” lives on. That’s the drag on Korean share prices because of concerns that profits might be milked by controlling shareholders (as well as worry over the political risks posed by North Korea). Korean shares trade at an average of 9.3 times their projected 2006 earnings, 30% below the Asian average and the lowest multiple in the region,

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_43/b3956080.htm

    I would never buy Samdung stock.

  88. empraptor Says:

    In response to Jason –

    As for the Mt. Fuji thing: Westerners might not know a lot about Mt. Fuji, but it’s one of the major popular images associated with Japan.

    If you read what I wrote, I’m saying that most US consumers will not recognize Images of Mt. Fuji as something of Japan (I wasn’t saying they wouldn’t know Mt. Fuji’s name which as you say they probably don’t). I suppose it’s just my hypothesis, since I haven’t gone out and taken a random survey. I don’t know how much people care about this kind of stuff in Europe, but at least in Michigan I expect most people don’t unless they have been to Japan or was interested in Japan for some reason.

    “Hyundai” sounds close to “Honda” and would cause confusion given that their logos look so similar. But unless Honda means the same thing as Hyundai, I don’t know if Hyundai would have named itself this planning to creat brand name confusion in foreign markets. There’s no mistaking Hyundai for Honda in Korean. I can see how the they got the logo off of Honda’s, though.

    As for Samsung, Samsung doesn’t sound like any Japanese company’s name. I mean that, for example, Samsung doesn’t sound anywhere close to Sony or any electronics company I can think of. If a consumer assumes that Samsung is Japanese because the name sounds foreign/Asian… I don’t know what to say about that.

  89. ponta Says:

    Samsung and Hyundai are great.

    If Samsun wants to be the pride of Korean people as a lot of Korean people want it to be, Samsung might want to use Kimchi as a symbol or as a backgroud of tv commercial.
    (Eating Kimchi, an attractive Asian woman donned like a woman that will stimulate the image of Korean femal workers in American society., whatever it may be, says, “Hey, this is as good as Kimchi! smile) I guess Amerian understand the symbols.

    When Korean people hate japan so much, it is a bit hard to understand why Samsung used Fujiyama,or the mountain similar to the symbol of Japan, as a background. 李健熙 the president of Samsung is a graduate of Japanese university(waseda), isn’t he.? The headquarter of Samsung must knows pretty well about Mt. Fuji.

  90. Fantasy Says:

    I don’t know how much people care about this kind of stuff in Europe.

    They certainly do over here – and images of Mount Fuji are common features in German offices (no kidding!) as Japan is quite popular over here. Koreans are frequently trying to profit from Japan’s popularity by passing themselves off as being Japanese. A typical example of this is the sale of “Kimbab” under the name of “Sushi”.

  91. tomato Says:

    Fantasy:

    A typical example of this is the sale of “Kimbab” under the name of “Sushi”.

    Actually, I think Kimbab is Sushi that became widespread in Korea during the Japanese administration era. It seems that changing names of stuff that comes from Japan is commonplace in Korea. Japan used to do this with baseball jargons during WWII, because English was the “enemy tongue”–good example of misplaced nationalism during that period.

  92. empraptor Says:

    tomato,

    If Sushi was imported during the colonial years and it was renamed to Kimbap because of hostility against Japanese names, at which point was Japan considered an enemy state – during or after the colonial era? By your reasoning, whenever the term Kimbap became widely used would certainly be such a time.

  93. claire Says:

    who can distinguish these mountains apart?

    by the looks of these pictures…
    mt. fuji looks kinda like mt jefferson, cotopaxi, sajama, ararat and so on…

    just words from a ignorant american consumer.

  94. Matt Says:

    If Sushi was imported during the colonial years and it was renamed to Kimbap because of hostility against Japanese names, at which point was Japan considered an enemy state – during or after the colonial era? By your reasoning, whenever the term Kimbap became widely used would certainly be such a time.

    Most Koreans even in the late colonial period were unable to speak Japanese. Koreans call Sushi ‘Kimchobap’ (and Sashimi is called ‘Chobap’). Therefore, Kimbap is a shortening of ‘Kimchobap’. Kimbap differs from ‘Kimchobap’ because it does not contain fish, and uses meat or vegetables instead.

    I don’t think it has anything to do with hostility.

  95. tomato Says:

    I don’t think it has anything to do with hostility.

    I think it does- extensive cleansing of anything Japanese after Korean independence. Not military hostility, but hostility towards extensive Japanese influence. Now they are trying to cleanse people out- the so-called “collaborators”- basically intellectuals, militarymen and the sort who worked hard during the Japanese era. Maybe ponta may know about this (not about the collaborators, but the renaming of everything Japanese like sushi, sashimi, etc.).

  96. tomato Says:

    But is someone proves me wrong about Kimbap, I’m happy to accept it.

  97. Matt Says:

    I do not deny there is a trend to eliminate Japanese derived words from the Korean language. That is well documented. I just think that Kimbap was called Kimbap during the Japanese administration of Korea, and they called it that because what is inside it (meat or vegetables instead of fish) is different. It would not make sense to call something without fish ‘Sushi’. Kim is seaweed, and Bap is rice. So it means seaweed rice.

  98. James Says:

    Claire:

    There is a significant difference between those mountains and the mountain in South America/Mt. Fuji. Mt. Fuji is a solitary snow-capped mountain with a certain wide and even shape to it, and so is that Mountain used in the Samsung advertisement. That Mountains of the World site makes it pretty clear that Mt. Fuji is a pretty unique-looking mountain, as almost none of them look the same as it. (Turkey’s Mt. Ararat is kind of close, but it has an uneven-shaped peak).

    You’re right, it is ignorant for consumers to assume the mountain in that commercial is Mt. Fuji. However, even the wikipedia entry on it has the following passage:

    Interestingly, this mountain has an extremely similar appearance to Mount Fuji.

    [Try finding a similar passage in the wikipedia entries on the mountains listed on that site. ]

    If a mountain as an “extremely similar” appearance to Mt. Fuji, you might think that somebody on the team making that commercial would have noticed. Or maybe they just randomly chose the one of the few mountains in the world that is considered a match of Mt. Fuji, and used it for the commercial?

  99. tomato Says:

    I do not deny there is a trend to eliminate Japanese derived words from the Korean language. That is well documented. I just think that Kimbap was called Kimbap during the Japanese administration of Korea, and they called it that because what is inside it (meat or vegetables instead of fish) is different. It would not make sense to call something without fish ‘Sushi’. Kim is seaweed, and Bap is rice. So it means seaweed rice.

    Matt, I think it comes from a type of sushi called nori-maki (seaweed roll), not any sushi. The Japanese wikipedia states that “Kimbap” is another example of Japanese cleansing, but it does not the cite source. Also notable that the cultivation of nori seaweed was developed by the Japanese and introduced to Korea during the colonial period. This can be attested by the existence of a import quota from S Korea, probably continuation of the colonial trade route. This is undeniable because S Korea filed a WTO claim to make Japan ban the nori seawead quota.

    As for cleansing Japanese, it’s understandable, but it gets silly when Koreans start claiming origins of things that were really imported. I believe the Koreans today claim they invented the nori-maki and told the barbarious Japanese how to make one.

  100. tomato Says:

    Also, fish is not essential in nori-makis…some are veggie like kappa-maki (cucumber) and kanpyo-maki (kind of squash). Meat and egg are also used. It’s like sandwiches-put whatever you like in it. See the Californa Roll with avocado.

    It’s kind of interesting that even when the Korean purists hate Japan, purification/cleansing does not really work…well, I don’t think there’s much sense in hating innocent nori-makis, anyways. I don’t think the Imperial Japanese devils force-fed Koreans norimaki, too.

  101. myCoree Says:

    Matt, your comment makes even a Korean like me.

    Most Koreans even in the late colonial period were unable to speak Japanese. Koreans call Sushi ‘Kimchobap’ (and Sashimi is called ‘Chobap’). Therefore, Kimbap is a shortening of ‘Kimchobap’. Kimbap differs from ‘Kimchobap’ because it does not contain fish, and uses meat or vegetables instead.

    As far as I know, Most Koeans in those days could speak Japanese without much difficulty. In Korea, Sushi is called ‘Chobap’ which means ‘vinegar-contained rice’. And, Sashimi is called ‘Hoe(膾)’.
    And,…’Kimchobap’ essentially means ‘Vinegar-contained Kimbap’.

    I don’t think it has anything to do with hostility. /blockquote>
    I agree with you. But, there are some tendency to change foreign words (especally if it’s from Japan) into Korean.

    Dewa, matta.

  102. myCoree Says:

    Matt, your comment makes “confusing” even a Korean like me.

    Sorry

  103. ponta Says:

    As far as I know, Most Koeans in those days could speak Japanese without much difficulty. In Korea,

    II think that is another myth.
    MyCoree, do you know why North Korea abducted Japanese citizens?
    According to Jenkin, who returened from North Korea,North Korea abducted Japanese because she needed teachers of Japanese language.
    Why does North Korea need a teacher of Japanese language if there were a
    lot of Koreans who can speak Japanese without much difficulty?

    Here is a streetcar map from the 1930s at Seoul from Gusts Of Popular Feeling The name of the stations is written in Hangule.
    (BTW Hangule was not used as an official document before the colonization,
    “In July, 1894, Mr Otori (a Japanese) made the useful innovation of publishing the Gazette in clear type, and in the following January it appeared in a mixture of Chinese hieroglyphs and En-mun, the “vulgar script” of Korea, and became intelligible to the common people.”
    p374 Isabella L. Bird )
    Why does a map written in Hangule if Koreans were deprived of Korean language?

    I think Japanese government wanted Koreans to “speak Japanese without much difficulty ” as you say but the fact is,

    According to statistics by government general, Koreans who could understand Japanese were as follows.
    year・・・・・ rate
     1913・・・・・0.61%
     1939・・・・・13.9%
     1940・・・・・15.57%
    1941・・・・・16.61%
     1942・・・・・19.94%
     1943・・・・・ 22.15%

    Japanese was an official language just as English was and is an official language of phillipines.

    English is one of the official language in the Philippines. It was imposed by Americans during the U.S. intervention and colonization of the archipelago. …wiki
    Korean people spoke Japanese at school but outside shool, they spoke Korean.

  104. myCoree Says:

    Thanks, ponta.
    Your statistical data is very impressive to me.It makes me feel more thankful.

    1942・・・・・ 19.94%
     1943・・・・・ 22.15%

    My father is on the 70′s. 70~80 yr-old generations in Korea were obliged to speak Japanese in school. I “guessed” that they must have been little difficulty in speaking Jananese if it was possible to proceed their schoolworks and communicate with it.
    But,it is easiest foreign language to Korean. I can understand most comments in Japanese ^_^

    I just want to point out any misses in your ‘talk’ though I don’t feel good when I read most of these comment.
    Go ahead.

    안녕

  105. ponta Says:

    My father is on the 70’s. 70~80 yr-old generations in Korea were obliged to speak Japanese in school

    You might want to Keep it secret;otherwise, your father might be bashed for having been pro-Japanese when everyone else spoke Korean, either rejecting to speak Japanese or having no opportunity to learn Japanese.
    失礼致します。どうか、お気軽にコメントをしてください。いろんな意見が大切です。
    여러실례 하겠습니다. 부디 부담없이 코멘트를 해 주세요.여러가지 의견이 중요합니다. .
    Excuse me. Feel free to commnet. Various opinions are important.

  106. myCoree Says:

    You might want to Keep it secret;otherwise, your father might be bashed for having been pro-Japanese

    ^_^ What do you mean ? Do you mean he may be blamed for having done pro-Japan behavior? My father was an ordinary citizen “民” who lived his life as a farmer. It doesn’t matter whether he spoke J or K. And, there were many who spoke Japanese at that time.
    As for pro-Japanese group, It’s too much late to punish them. “Why now?” “For what?” And, I have a skeptic idea that there will be much more pro-American groups to be punished if Korea becomes communized or the ‘great empire’ USA collapsed someday. ^_^
    It’ time to go to my office.

    So long.

  107. Matt Says:

    And, I have a skeptic idea that there will be much more pro-American groups to be punished if Korea becomes communized or the ‘great empire’ USA collapsed someday. ^_^

    I have the same idea.

  108. dogbert Says:

    I do not deny there is a trend to eliminate Japanese derived words from the Korean language.

    I actually own a couple of (Korean) books on this subject. There is something of a movement to inform people of what foreign loanwords came via Japanese (such as many construction-related vocabulary items) and have people stop using them.

  109. tomato Says:

    I guess the Japanese administration was like the Soviet occupation of its surrounding nations. Sure, the Soviets probably brought modern civlization to them, but boy, Soviet rule…I’m not sure anyone would have liked that. Many of them can speak Russian now, but I’m sure in several decades, the younger generations will not be learning Russian, maybe for the exception of close cousins like Ukraine and Belarus.

    And pre-war Japan was surely authoritarian, and during the war it was hyped up to totalitarian rule, forcing its citizens live in poverty to fight a prolonged war (this is also kind of like the USSR during the cold war). Everyone must be glad that system didn’t last long as the USSR.

    But I don’t think there were any traitor-of-the-people collaborators in Korea, since during most of the Japanese era there was little opposition (although the nationalist S Korean regime seems to teach otherwise), and Koreans who made it up the ranks of the Japanese system weren’t engaged in toruturing Korean freedom fighters or such. Rather, those people were hard-working and decent people, and I believe many of them contributed to post WWII development of S Korea.

  110. Two Cents Says:

    Matt,
    As tomato says, sushi does not have to have fish in it.
    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%BB%E5%83%8F:Sushi3.jpg
    This is a kanasai-style makizushi (巻き寿司:rolled sushi).

    Sushi originates in SE Asia and was introduced to Japan in the 8th century. It was originally fermented. Rice was placed inside gutted fish, and left to ferment. This style of sushi (熟寿司: narezushi, or ripened sushi) is still a delicacy in Japan, the most famous being Funazushi (鮒寿司: fish-sushi) of Lake Biwa(http://www.rakuten.co.jp/hokkori/473518/) and heshiko (へしこ) of Fukui prefecture. These are not at all like the sushi you know. Then, eventually, rice came to be eaten with the fish, so only the fish was fermented, pickled in vinegar, or cooked. These evolved into the 押し寿司 (pressed sushi) or 箱寿司 (box sushi) in the Kansai (Osaka & Kyoto)area. In the Edo period, people started to eat にぎり寿司 (hand-pressed sushi) at sushi stands in Edo (Tokyo), and these were prepared on the spot using fresh fish. This is the most widely known form of sushi today. The sushi rolled in laver (巻き寿司 or のり巻き) doesn’t become popular until the middle of the 19th century, because laver used to be an expensive delicacy. The norimaki at the time were eaten as 精進料理 (Buddist-style = vegetarian), so they did not contain fish.

    Laver production in Korea in its modern form was introduced by Masanosuke Kaneko (金子政之助) in 1928, and the laver produced was exported almost entirely to Japan proper, so I doubt rolled sushi could have been popularized widely during the annexation period (a special-occasion menu, perhaps?). After WWII, exports to Japan ceased altogether, and so laver manufacturers had to find ways to boost consumption in Korea. My guess is that this is the period when kimbap spread explosively. However, I hear that old people in Korea seem to know the word “norimaki,” so it must have been popularized initially as “norimaki,” then later changed to kimbap.

    dogbert,
    I have heard similar efforts are being made at Posco steelworks. They seem to want to wipe out history in which Japan actually made a positive contribution to Korean society after the war.

  111. tomato Says:

    My guess is that this is the period when kimbap spread explosively.

    Strange that in the English Wikipedia, Kimbap is explained as traditional Korean food….I’m sure that in Japan, “curry rice” and “tonkatsu” have been around longer than the Kimbap in Korea, but I don’t think any Japanese will call them “traditional”. It’s definitely “yoshoku” (=western food)…and I’m 100% confident that no Japanese think they invented curry or katsu…no need of nationalism here.

  112. myCoree Says:

    But I don’t think there were any traitor-of-the-people collaborators in Korea, since during most of the Japanese era there was little opposition (although the nationalist S Korean regime seems to teach otherwise),

    Do you know Lee Wan-yong(李完用) in Korea? He is considered as the symbol of traitor-of-the-people collaborators. He earned enormous rewards from Japan for ‘selling’ Korea. Korean government has tried to deprive his descendents of all his assets but faced many obstacles in the legal respect. I learned a lot of independence movements through the colonial period (although you seem to treat it slightly with willingness)

    and Koreans who made it up the ranks of the Japanese system weren’t engaged in torturing Korean freedom fighters or such. Rather, those people were hard-working and decent people,

    Who knows? Then, who did torture or kill them?

    and I believe many of them contributed to post WWII development of S Korea.

    Partially right. Most of the intelligent pro-Japanese group in Korea at that time took a major role in founding a pro-American regime after 1945. One man who had been a member of pro-Japanese group changed into the Liberation Army at second, the Red Army at third, and ROK Army at last. He had two names -Takaki Masao(高木正雄) in Japanese and Park Jung-hee(朴正熙) in Korean. He was the 4th president of Korea. He was a real cameleon. He himself proved the Darwin’s theory ‘the survival of the fittiest’.

    P.S.

    the nationalist S Korean regime…
    no need of nationalism …

    Please don’t label any persons or nations. Are you a ‘Labelist’? It’s very useful in treating goods or data. But careful about persons. Do you want to be labeled? You don’t feel good if I label you as a ‘neo-emperialist’.
    Sorry if I hurt you.

    So long.

  113. tomato Says:

    Korean government has tried to deprive his descendents of all his assets but faced many obstacles in the legal respect.

    Usually in democratic countries, you don’t punish descendants. It’s usually a constitutional right. Is your system still medieval or something? I would call this a kind of ethnic cleansing…I see nothing but crude nationalism working here…call it “labeling” if you like, but there’s no denying it.

  114. nigelboy Says:

    Korean government has tried to deprive his descendents of all his assets but faced many obstacles in the legal respect.

    Maybe because it’s unconstitutional.

    Article 13 [nulla poena sine lege, double jeopardy, retroactive law, family liability]

    (1) No citizen may be prosecuted for an act which does not constitute a crime under the law in force at the time it was committed, nor may he be placed in double jeopardy.
    (2) No restrictions may be imposed upon the political rights of any citizen, nor may any person be deprived of property rights by means of retroactive legislation.
    (3) No citizen shall suffer unfavorable treatment on account of an act not of his own doing but committed by a relative.

  115. ponta Says:

    myCoree

    He earned enormous rewards from Japan for ‘selling’ Korea.

    Are you sure he earned enormous reward?

    Watch How You Use ‘Traitor’

    In fact, Seo Jae-pil’s Dongnip Sinmun (Independence Newspaper) never wrote a single line of criticism against Lee Wan-yong. Now, how should we interpret Lee, who has fallen from a foreign affairs expert with a broad scope to a traitor after the Eulsa Protectorate Treaty between Korea and Japan was signed? Maybe, he symbolizes our modern history, which we have ruined due to confusion and lack of ability.

    MyCorre wrote

    I learned a lot of independence movements through the colonial period

    Well some of Korean historians are begging to realize the truth, or at least an another perspective.

    교과서포럼 근현대사 대안교과서 시안 제4장 ‘국민국가의 건설’은 “해방은 느닷없이 왔다”는 문장으로 시작한다. “일본의 패망에 대비하려고 여운형이 조직한 ‘건국동맹’ 같은 비밀결사가 없었던 것은 아니지만, 그것은 극히 예외적인 움직임이었다.” 글이 주로 ‘국내’에 초점을 맞추고는 있지만 그렇다고 ‘국외’ 부분을 따로 조명하지도 않는다. 따라서 시안을 보면 광복은 외세의 선물인 듯 받아들일 수밖에 없다.link

    Liberation came unintentionally. Though there was a movement like “the founding of a country alliance by 呂運亨 , preparing for the Japan’s defeat, it was rather an exception…..

    The author was attacked physically by the opponent to defend the honorable Korean history, though.

    MyCorry wrote

    who did torture or kill them?

    Lee Hong Gyu ?

    The survivors say that Lee Hong Gyu was more cruel and barbaric to his fellow countrymen than his Japanese masters
    link

    Actually the large number of Prosecution Clerks were Koreans. In a way they were parts of Japanese system.,

  116. empraptor Says:

    ponta,

    Since you seem to have a grasp of Korean, maybe you could translate the rest of the Korean article you linked to. It seems the rest of the article is about how the statement in the first paragraph you quoted is wrong. “하지만 실제 역사에선” that begins the second paragraph I think means “But in actual history”, implying that the rest of the article contradicts the first paragraph.

  117. bulgasari Says:

    Tomato:

    But I don’t think there were any traitor-of-the-people collaborators in Korea, since during most of the Japanese era there was little opposition

    Actually, there’s enough evidence out there to suggest that there was a lot of passive resistance to the Japanese, but in the end, that’s all there was, for the most part. Credit the Japanese police with doing there job very well – anyone plotting anything against the Japanese government was ususally found out (the same situation existed in Taiwan). There were so many informers out there to help the police that most conspirators would be found out soon enough. As for those who actively fought, most of them (after the 3.1 movement in 1919) did so outside of the country, and I certainly agree their role has been exaggerated greatly in the South (and especially North) Korean historical mythos.

    As for traitors, keep in mind that tens of thousands of Koreans served in the police (serving in the army or police is a tried and true tactic of many colonizers to divide and conquer – just look at what the British did in Burma). This was one of the most divisive aspects of the colonial era, and the fact that so many of these people were recruited to serve in the national police during the US administration (1945-48) is what led to many of them being brutally (and I do mean brutally) murdered during the autumn harvest uprisings in 1946. Simply said, there was a great deal of animosity towards these people in the immediate postwar period – they were considered by many at the time to be traitors.

    Ponta:

    That map of the tram system is something that I’d thought about and your comment reminded me of it: I think the better caption would be “A map of the tram system in the 1930s”. I know I wrote “from” the 1930s, but I have to admit, there’s no proof of that, and considering the layout of the map (It does look more modern than the ’30s, don’t you think?) it may have been made at a later time. I’ll amend the post to reflect that (which would mean changing the preposition “from” to “in”). It may well be from that time, but it’s just as likely that it’s not, and I should have worded it more carefully. Thanks for pointing it out.

    As for that article about Lee Wan-yong, it’s pretty weak. “Korea” suggested annexation? Right, just like America attacked the twin towers because John Walker Lindh was a member of the taliban. One person does not equal a country (despite Lee’s position of power).

    As for this:

    In fact, Seo Jae-pil’s Dongnip Sinmun (Independence Newspaper) never wrote a single line of criticism against Lee Wan-yong. Now, how should we interpret Lee, who has fallen from a foreign affairs expert with a broad scope to a traitor after the Eulsa Protectorate Treaty between Korea and Japan was signed? Maybe, he symbolizes our modern history, which we have ruined due to confusion and lack of ability.

    Allow me to reword it to show how pointless it is:

    In fact, in the 1980s, the New York Times never wrote a single line of criticism against Saddam Hussein. Now, how should we interpret Hussein, who has fallen from a valued ally in his war against an Iran ruled by Islamic fundamentalists to an enemy of America after his invasion of Kuwait? Maybe he symbolizes American history, which has been punctuated by support for less-than-democratic dictators.

    Or to make the point clearer, the Dongnip Sinmun folded 6 years before the Eulsa treaty was signed in 1905, and 11 years before annexation – hardly something to guage Korean perceptions of Lee Wan-yong’s actions at those times by.

    Why can’t people who use this article as “proof” that Korea willingly gave up her sovereignty see these obvious discrepancies?

  118. tomato Says:

    bulgasari,

    This was one of the most divisive aspects of the colonial era, and the fact that so many of these people were recruited to serve in the national police during the US administration (1945-48) is what led to many of them being brutally (and I do mean brutally) murdered during the autumn harvest uprisings in 1946. Simply said, there was a great deal of animosity towards these people in the immediate postwar period – they were considered by many at the time to be traitors.

    The uprising: could it be connected to partisan activities of communists, or did someone spark hatred? Sounds like what happened in Yugoslavia. There probably was underlying hatred between the Serbs, Croats and the Muslims, but killing off neighbors is something way off the line. I think someone played a role in igniting hatred in the massacre you’re talking about, which could, like you say, to be interpreted as the people disliking Japanese rule (I’m pretty sure they were), but killing off fellow Koreans is way beyond justification. What were the Koreans to do during the Japanese era? Engage in a general strike against the Japanese? Become terrorists?

    I think the people who sparked the hatred leading to the killings were agitators close to or actually being criminals, like Milosevic was. They used the underlying hatred to cause mass hysteria. And the people in Korea today who still endulge in the agitation by listing “Japanese collaborators” and publicly dishonoring them, even trying to punish their descendants…just gives me the chills.

  119. ponta Says:

    empraptor
    Thanks You are right. the author of the artcile as well as the leftist historians are furious about the view. And as a result he was physically attace as I showed in another link.

    bulgasari
    Thanks
    The article I posted is valuable in that it debunk Korean accusation about 李完用.
    Another point you brought up is that just because a few people supported Japan for the annexation, that does not means that the nation as a whole supported Japan. Am I correct?
    I think Korea needs to reexamine the largest political pary Iljinhoe, which it claimed to have a millioin of member. the major Korean historian misrepresented it as usual and say it was just a puppet political party, but it was nore than that as Bruce Coming confirms.
    In my opinion , when the largest progesssive party puhed for the reformatioon through Japan’s help, I think it is safe to say that the nation supported Japan’s move.
    Welcome, Japan,IljinhoeNotice also that the ordinary citizens around the gate are as ususal as ever.It is not like protesters around the US base as of now.

  120. empraptor Says:

    ponta,

    My Korean vocabulary is not large enough to be able to understand articles on history. But seeing as how the article you linked is opposed to your statement, would it not be proper to show why they are wrong rather than just calling them leftist and assuming that that makes them wrong?

    Academics resorting to physical attack in order to uphold a dogma is shameful, but maybe you could get back to the issue. Showing they are violent does not logically show views they hold to be false.

  121. ponta Says:

    empraptor
    Thanks

    Showing they are violent does not logically show views they hold to be false.

    True. And my point is not to prove that the leftist are wrong, my point is rather that some Koreans are beginning to realize a new perspective and the leftist opposed it by physically attacking him.

    And it is I who am curious why the leftist are correct..

    When more than 300,000 young Korean men voluntarily applied for Japanese army, I think it is plausible to say the independent movement was
    an exception as the author of history textbook claimed.

    If the resistance was a rule among Korean people as many of the leftist Korean historians seem to claim, there must have been an uproar between 300,000 Korean young people who applied for Japanaese army and the member of the group for the independence. Have you ever heard of it?

    Some people say those who resisted were arrested. Yes maybe, but who knows all those arrested were resistance for the independence. There are criminals in every society., rapist, thief, etc. And spy would be arrested in every society. Russian spy is a hero in Russia but he would be arrested in England.

    I want to know the name of the group for the independence in the peninsula and the how large the group was. Only then i can start examining their claim. Even in India where England harshly ruled Indians, there were famous groups for independence that is known now.

    Would it not be proper to show why the leftist is right even when the author is physically attacked by the leftist?

  122. AkihitoMojito Says:

    Hello, Folks:

    I’ve been out for a long time…woah, this discussion has gone one for a long time. Kind of surprised people haven’t moseyed on over to the DVD issue in China discussion. I read about China’s attempts to set the standard in the IHT a few days back and I think Matt’s analysis is spot on.

    Ummm…

    Ponta:

    When more than 300,000 young Korean men voluntarily applied for Japanese army, I think it is plausible to say the independent movement was
    an exception as the author of history textbook claimed

    I think it’s pretty easy to explain why so many Koreans joined the army:

    1. Army jobs are a good source of employment for those who are uneducated. Koreans under Japanese rule were discriminated against in education, and so many Koreans probably joined the army to escape unemployment.

    2. Even racist armies are somewhat meritocratic in nature. Why? Well, an army that promotes intelligent officers willl win more wars. I’d wager that so many Korean men joined the Japanese army because the army was less discriminatory than the private sector.

    3. Propaganda. The Japanese portrayed the United States as evil. It’s easy to recruit soldiers when you are fighting evil. Moreover, Imperial Japan shared some similarities with modern day IslamoFascism. (Kamikaze Fighters, anyone?) When you combine a warlike culture, heavy propaganda and religious fanaticism, you get enthusiastic, if not brainwashed, soldiers.

    4. I recently read an essay on Black soldiers who served in the U.S. army duing WWI and WWII. There were thousands of black soldiers who served. I was kind of confused about that situation because it didn’t make sense to me how so many black soldiers could have fought for a country that treated them so terribly.

    I kept on reading, and as I read, I came to realize that it made sense for those soldiers to fight for the United States. Many Black soldiers fought for the U.S. because they believed that bravery and intelligence displayed on the battlefield would prove to the white people that they were worthy of equal treatment. I think that Koreans served in the Japanese army for the same reasons. They probably believed that by serving in the Imperial Army, they were demonstrating their bravery, intelligence, strength, etc, and that by doing so, they could make a more convincing argument for Korean independence or at the very least for equality betweeen Koreans and the Japanese.

    5. Education. Military jobs are a good way to get a low cost education. In the military, a person can study the sciences, techonology, foreign cultures, etc for a fraction of the cost of attending a university.

  123. AkihitoMojito Says:

    It’s so old! Oh well, let’s continue.

    Tomato:

    However global price-fixing conspiracies are not so common.

    They are quite commmon. In fact, price fixing is more common that patent infringement. While patent infringement is only profitable in industries where intellectual property commands a premium, price fixing–or collusion for the more educated–is profitable in all industries where competition lowers prices. There are more laws against collusion than IP theft.

    But I digress. In any event you still lose because Sony itself has been indicted in the same probe that targeted Samsung.

    http://www.betanews.com/article/DOJ_Investigating_Sony_for_RAM_Pricefixing/1162328915

    GarlicBreath:

    Who is the bigger thief? SAMSUNG.

    Bigger Thief. Hmm. Okay. But my point wasn’t to put Samsung on a higher moral pedestal than Sony. My goal was to demonstrate that Sony also steals intellectual propery. Since you said that Samsung is the bigger thief, you’ve just admitted that Sony is a thief too. Good. This is all I wanted.

    AkihitoMojito, market cap and invester value are not the same thing.

    Investor Value is not mentioned in the article you linked. My point still stands, Samsung is 2.5 times more valuable than Sony. Moreover, its superior stock price is underpinned by its superior profits.

    Market Cap is a good indicator for a company’s success or failure. Samsung’s Market Cap is higher than Sony’s because Samsung is a more successful company. Samsung has more employees, has higher profits, has a higher stock price, has a higher rate of stock price growth, has accelerated dramatically in consumer recognition and has seized leadership in high growth industries. (Plasma TV sets and Mobile Phones).

    Sony on the other hand has suffered numerous setbacks. In addition to its legal woes, Sony has completely lost it’s position in the music player business to Apple Computer, and is quickly losing its position in the videogame market to Microsoft and Nintendo. My Point: Samsung is better and is improving. Sony is worse and is getting worse.

    As a sidenote, you’ll have to provide reasons why you believe Sony is the better company. Trying to undermine my argument is only half the battle. You also have to support your side.

    In fact its well known that Samsung is under values because investors dont place a high value on Samsung.

    You’re absolutely wrong here, but it doesn’t matter. You cannot dispute that Samsung’s market value is higher than Sony’s. If Investor’s don’t place a high value on Samsung, then they place an even lower value on Sony because Son’y market cap is lower than Samsung’s. In fact, a leading stock invesmtnent columnist just trashed Sony on Monday:

    http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06121108.htm?ref=foolwatch

    The most damninng part is the consumer confidence segment of the piece. Sony’s most valuable asset, it’s reputation, is declining. Samsung’s reputation is only getting better.

    Ehh, this topic is pretty much dead anyway, and I apologize if I annoyed anyone by bringing it up. I think I proved my point well though.

  124. tomato Says:

    Mojito,

    You’re talking to the wrong person. I’ve never made that comment about global price fixing. Nor do I claim Sony is great or Samsung sucks.

  125. ponta Says:

    They probably believed that by serving in the Imperial Army, they were demonstrating their bravery, intelligence, strength, etc,

    There was a Korean soldier who was a hero among Japanese and Koreans.
    He led the troop and under him, Japanese soldiers fought. So it is understandable that many Koreans wanted to be like him.

    and that by doing so, they could make a more convincing argument for Korean independence

    That is a logical leap due to your distorted perception influenced by the leftist historians.
    . I know there are some African-American thinker who insist African American community should gain the independence of USA, but I have no reason to believe that those African-American soldiers wanted to gain the independence by joining the army.

    or at the very least for equality between Koreans and the Japanese.

    Maybe, I hear some Koreans felt the identity crisis. Many Koreans thought they were Japanese but there were native Japanese who used racial slur again them. That made the Korean people to become more Japanese. And it is understandable that there are some Koreans who applied for Japanese army to prove that they are really Japanese

    However, the point is , the fact that there were more than 300,000 young Korean men who voluntarily applied for Japanese Army when Tojou was a prime minister shows that there was few resistance ,if any, contrary to common dogma among young Korean people.

  126. GarlicBreath Says:

    AkihitoMojito=youngrocco=troll

  127. GarlicBreath Says:

    Youngrocco said:

    In fact, price fixing is more common that patent infringement.

    Care to back this up. Didn’t think so.

  128. GarlicBreath Says:

    Youngrocco said

    Bigger Thief. Hmm. Okay. But my point wasn’t to put Samsung on a higher moral pedestal than Sony. My goal was to demonstrate that Sony also steals intellectual propery. Since you said that Samsung is the bigger thief, you’ve just admitted that Sony is a thief too. Good. This is all I wanted.

    FALSE youngrocco. You siad:

    Looking at the data above, while playing particularly close attention to the first case, I think a convincing argument can be made that Sony is actually the bigger thief of intellectually property. To date, I have never heard of Samsung having to pay anywhere near 97 million dollars in a patent infringement lawsuit case.

    I was in fact showing you that Samsung steals. Your point was that Sony was a “bigger thief” and I proved you wrong.

    Youngrocco, you dont read what anybody writes or even what you write, all you do is plant your korean flag and say:

    I think I proved my point well though.

    You haven’t proven anything youngrocco.

  129. bad_moon_rising Says:

    AkihitoMojito wrote:
    Samsung… has accelerated dramatically in consumer recognition

    Unfortunately, Samsung hasn’t “accelerated dramatically” enough for the average American to take notice, at least not this year.

    Sony on Top in Annual ‘Best Brands’ Harris Poll for Seventh Consecutive Year

    Sony tops the list in the annual Harris Poll of “best brands” for an impressive seventh consecutive year. Dell retains its No. 2 spot, while Coca-Cola, previously in the fourth position, moves up to No. 3.

    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=682

    AkihitoMojito wrote:
    Samsung… has higher profits

    Where do these profits primarily come from?

    Sunghae Park, manager of the public relations group at Samsung’s semiconductor business, notes that 70 per cent of Samsung’s profits, though only 30 per cent of its revenues, are still generated by the company’s semiconductor business.

    Ars Technica notes that this is hardly the first time price-fixing allegations have hit the electronics industry. Samsung paid a $300 million fine for fixing RAM prices only a few years ago and is currently under investigation for artificially inflating RAM prices again.

    http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/10227

    It is no leap of logic to realize that Samsung is basically making most of its profits from price fixing in the semiconductor business. However, the semiconductor business might not be so lucrative for the Koreans in the future.

    $14 billion memory chip plant planned by Elpida. Elpida Memory, the sole Japanese maker of computer memory chips, plans to build a ¥1.6 trillion yen, or $14 billion, factory in Taiwan in an effort to overtake Samsung Electronics as the industry’s largest producer.

    “Elpida is very confident about the memory chip market and has a positive outlook,” said Jay Kim, an analyst at Hyundai Securities in Seoul. “For Korean chip makers, they have to watch out as Elpida could emerge as a major competitor.”

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/07/bloomberg/sxelpida.php

    Pretty much everyone that makes flat panels, with the exception of Sony and Matsushita, is being probed in a multinational investigation that spans from the United States to Japan to Korea.

    Take away flat-panel displays and semiconductors (price fixing) and you pretty much take away most of Samsung’s profits.

    AkihitoMojito wrote:
    Sony… is quickly losing its position in the videogame market to Microsoft and Nintendo

    Sony is not “quickly losing its position in the videogame market.”

    In North America (October 2006):
    The PlayStation 2 came in at around 235,000, with the Xbox 360 slightly disappointingly selling just under 220,000 units, the Game Boy Advance just under 170,000, and the PSP a marginally lackluster 130,000, almost a third the tally of the DS.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11648

    Worldwide (November 2006):
    Sony’s PlayStation 2, introduced in 2000, was more popular than all three of the newer machines, selling 664,000 units in the month.

    http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4804952

    Sony doesn’t seem to be doing too badly at the box office either.

    Sony Has Record Year at Box Office
    Sony Pictures Entertainment said Tuesday that for the first time in the history of the studio, its annual worldwide box office take exceeded $3 billion.

    In North America, Sony has sold nearly 20 percent of all movie tickets with “The Da Vinci Code,” which did more than $750 million worldwide; “Casino Royale”; “Click”; and “Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby.” Each one of those movies hit the $100 million mark.

    http://www.labusinessjournal.com/article.asp?aID=04817512.5032138.1406210.3374466.3263865.322&aID2=108161

    Unfortunately Korea doesn’t seem to be doing too well these days.

    But high oil prices and a firmer won versus the U.S. dollar have raised concerns that the pace of economic growth may fall sharply in the second half of the year.

    The report showed that wholesale and retail sales, the main barometer of consumer spending, increased 2.7 percent from a year earlier, slowing sharply from the previous month’s 7.8 percent gain.

    http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/Engnews/20061130/620000000020061130144423E3.html

    Next year’s forecast doesn’t seem to be too good either.
    Economic growth will cool to 4.4 percent in 2007 from 5 percent this year.

    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200612/13/200612132151432939900090509051.html

    I think I proved my point well though.

    That you have. To quote Mark Twain, “The rumors of [Sony's] death have been greatly exaggerated.”

  130. GarlicBreath Says:

    Youngrocco said:

    You cannot dispute that Samsung’s market value is higher than Sony’s.

    Yes its well know that Samsdung’s market cap is bigger then Sony. That is not in dispute. In fact nobody is disputing that. Quit it with the red herrings.

    If Investor’s don’t place a high value on Samsung, then they place an even lower value on Sony because Son’y market cap is lower than Samsung’s

    Nonsence youngrocco. First the market is not just made of Samsung and Sony. It is not a zero-sum game. And you are just repeting the same red herring.

    Anyway, Sony does have a lower market cap but that only shows that Sony is a smaller company. If you want to congradulate yourself that Samdung is bigger then Sony, then go for it champ.

    I predict Samsung will go the way of Dr hwang-woo suck.

  131. AkihitoMojito Says:

    GarlicBreath,

    I am putting you on notice: I will ignore each and every single post you write until you decide to stop trolling. There is no reason for namecalling.

    Badmoon,

    Your argument is flaccid. All of your premises can be broadly placed into these five categories:

    1. Outside of the Scope.
    2. Displays ignorance of economics.
    3. Displays ignorance of Samsung.
    4. Displays ignorance of the electronics market.
    5. Attempts to make a generalization out of a single incident.

    Most of your arguments fall into one or more categories.

    My argument shall adhere to the following structure: I will point out that you are wrong, give a succinct explanantion for why you are wrong and then follow up with facts and figures which reveal the truth.

    1. AkihitoMojito:

    has accelerated dramatically in consumer recognition

    Badmoon:

    Unfortunately, Samsung hasn’t “accelerated dramatically” enough for the average American to take notice, at least not this year.

    Your attempt at rebuttal fails because it is outside the scope of my argument. My point was that Samsung consumer recognition has grown, and you responded with a survey taken of American households. Your argument fails because America is not the only market for electronics. Also, your data is too narrow in scope. You reference the United States. The data I shall present takes a worldwide approach:

    http://bwnt.businessweek.com/brand/2006/

    Samsung Interbrand/Businessweek Value Ranking: 20
    Sony Interbrand Businessweek Value Ranking 28

    My list ranks brand value around the world yours only deals with the United States. In terms of Brand Value and Image improvement, Samsung is the clear winner.

    2. AkihitoMojito

    Samsung has higher Profits

    Badmoon

    Where do these profits primarily come from

    It is no leap of logic to realize that Samsung is basically making most of its profits from price fixing in the semiconductor business

    This is the softest part of your argument. It fails for two reasons.

    1. My argument was never that Samsung is the more moral company, my arugment is that Samsung is the superior company. We can both agree that a company’s profits are an essential measure of determining success and thus, superiority. Samsung has superior profits, so it is the superior company. Again, my argument is not about which company is more moral, my arugment is about which company is superior and profits are a larger weight in that equation.

    2. If Price-Fixing were the main engine of Samsung’s growth, then the Federal Injuntion issued against Samsung would have sent its stock price tumbling. Investors, fearing a complete meltdown in Samsung profitably would have bailed.

    They didn’t.

    Instead Samsung stock continues its upward climb. While Sony continues to underperform its competitors.

    3. You’re guessing about the price-fixing part. How do I know? Easy. You don’t have a single fact or figure backing up what you say. To what extent were prices lowered? What would they have been if price-fixing were not a factor? You haven’t the foggiest idea what the answers to these questions are. You are guessing.

    3b. If Samsung profits from price fixing….well, at least Samsung profits from its price-fixing. Sony is being investigated in the DOJ probe for price-fixing as well. However, Sony profts fell 94% last quarter.

    4. The injunction against Samsung was for supply side price-fixing. Samsung colluded with other DRAM chip companies to low-ball its components suppliers. Your argument fails because it pre-supposes that low prices are the main contributor to Samsung profits.

    The facts of the matter speak otherwise:

    1. Growth in Demand for Chips.

    The growth dynamics for both types of memory chips looks tip-top. Researcher Gartner Dataquest expects global DRAM sales this year to rise 14% to $28.7 billion and NAND sales 29% to $15.4 billion.

    2. Research and Development

    Samsung has excelled in the high-stake competition by investing billions into new and advanced chip-making equipment and research

    3. Demand Side Increases

    If you look at the trend from the start of this year, DRAM prices are actually rising. The average price for a 512-megabit DRAM chip rose to $4.90 in August from $4 in January. It’s hovering around $5 in September. The price reversal is partly linked to the much-publicized deal between Samsung and Apple last year that led to the creation of iPod nano

    http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/sep2006/gb20060925_001749.htm

    Your guesswork fails on these three counts. An unexpectedly strong demand for DRAM chips, coupled with deals with the world’s largest retailers of consumer electronics, have contributed to Samsung’s success in the DRAM market, not price fixing. The final nail in your coffin is the fine that the justice department levied against Samsung. Samsung had to pay 300,000,000 dollars. If price fixing were responsible for most of Samsung’s profits, Samsung would have to pay more money.

    Badmoon:

    The PlayStation 2 came in at around 235,000, with the Xbox 360 slightly disappointingly selling just under 220,000 units, the Game Boy Advance just under 170,000, and the PSP a marginally lackluster 130,000, almost a third the tally of the DS.

    Another soft point in your argument. What? You didn’t think I’d notice that all of your figures were about the PS2? You didn’t think I’d notice that you made no mention of the Nintendo Wii in your figures? I guess you saw the numbers for the PS3 and were none too pleased. What the heck are you doing talking about the PS2 when the next-gen videogame systems have already been released.

    PS3 November sales: 197,000
    Nintendo Wii November Sales 476,000
    Xbox 360: 511,000.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16115967/

    Badmoon, a company gets nowhere by trumpeting its past achievements. It only gets ahead when the future looks bright. Sony’s position in the videogame depends on the position of its new PS3, not the 6 year old PS2. Unfortunately, for Sony, the PS3 is in deadlast.

    It is no leap of logic to realize that Samsung is basically making most of its profits from price fixing in the semiconductor business. However, the semiconductor business might not be so lucrative for the Koreans in the future.

    This argument is outside of the scope too. My argument is that Samsung is the better company today. The argument about who will be the better company hasn’t started yet. Note: As evidenced by the rise of Samsung stock, investors, who unlike you put their money where the mouths are, are confident of Samsung’s future.

    And the rest of your arguments fall flat for obvious reasons:

    Sony doesn’t seem to be doing too badly at the box office either.

    Yeah, but its still less profitable than Samsung.

    Unfortunately Korea doesn’t seem to be doing too well these days.

    1. This arugment is not about Korea. This argument is about Samsung
    vs Sony.

    2. You’re wrong, but even if what you said were true, it still doesn’t change the fact that Samsung is doing better in every measure that counts. brand growth, profits and market value.

    3. The figures below prove that what you said is untrue:

    Korea’s econ growth this year is 4.8 percent.
    Japan’s econ growth rate revised downward to
    1.8 percent

    3. Average income in Korea surpassed the $20,000 for the first time in
    its history.

    Badmoon,

    To quote Mark Twain, “The rumors of [Sony’s] death have been greatly exaggerated.”

    No one said Sony is dead, but it is definitely in critical condition.

    Why is Samsung superior? Three reasons.

    1. Higher Brand Value.
    2. Higher Profits.
    3. Higher Market Cap.

    Why is Sony superior?

    ?

  132. GarlicBreath Says:

    YoungRocco Said:

    GarlicBreath,

    I am putting you on notice: I will ignore each and every single post you write until you decide to stop trolling. There is no reason for namecalling.

    LOL What ‘namecalling’?

  133. Fantasy Says:

    Claire said:

    Do you really think this blog consists of people other than japanese or koreans? hahaha.

    Yeah, indeed, there are other nationalities represented here. E.g. I myself am neither Japanese nor Korean, but German. Who cares ?

  134. Matt Says:

    YoungRocco (AkihitoMojito) , why are you still posting here?

    Darin, want to do the honors?

  135. tomato Says:

    Garlicbreath,

    How did you find out?

  136. GarlicBreath Says:

    False: Wrogn again YoungRocco (AkihitoMojito)

    3. The figures below prove that what you said is untrue:

    Korea’s econ growth this year is 4.8 percent.
    Japan’s econ growth rate revised downward to
    1.8 percent

    Korea is unlikely to catch up with Japan economically
    http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200612/kt2006121718495211910.htm

  137. kojibomb Says:

    true….

    they don’t have enough people;

    their best prob is not enough to catch up Japan

  138. sqz Says:

    It is not related to a topic of here, but I introduce it.

    (warning)
    This animation include expression that it might give you unpleasantness.
    Please be careful if you will watch it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_c28X–hPw

    It is same animation. Please click “Barbeque”.
    http://www.hyundai.co.nz/video_tucson.html

  139. tomato Says:

    sqz:

    Unbelievably disgusting.
    Do the Koreans think it’s funny or palatable?
    They’re doing a really good job on their PR, aren’t they…

  140. GarlicBreath Says:

    Samsung Pleads guilty: Korean exec gets 10 months in jail.

    http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=173490

    So far the majority of the people going to prison are Korean and the majority of the fines have been paid by Korean companies.

    This is why youngrocco said this:

    In fact, price fixing is more common that patent infringement

    I hope to Koreans this type of thing is not normal. But it is a crime and the Koreans and others involved need to spend some hard time in jail not just 10 months. 10 years would seem fair.

    By the way, I want to note that not all Koreans approve of this but Samsung does and is clearly a criminal company. Boycott Samdung.

  141. kojibomb Says:

    omg… garlicbreath

    you better stop accusing every one who disagree with you a Korean liar… including me and AkihitoMojito

    I smell kimuchi?

    wow beginning to get pissed off here

    you are so happy when we agree with you talking negative sides of Korea but when we disagree like on here about Samsung… you just change completely…

    I see a nasty bigot right here~~

    not really fun isn’t it?

  142. Jenny Says:

    ^
    This is because GarlicBreath is a biased racist that also happens to be unbelievably stubborn and by far holds stronger self importance and pride than most of the Koreans that he is criticising here.

    Gerry makes healthy criticisms, but GarlicBreath obviously doesn’t and stirs up a lot of trouble. He obviously enjoys it. He literally hates anything Korean and glorifies anything Japanese and wonders why some Korean people on this site is outraged by the constant bitchy comparison he makes to make Koreans feel inferior. He encourages it and taunts them on purpose. It’s like kicking someone in the balls as a joke and questioning why he is hurt by it. That’s his logic to everything, its ridiculous. It’s best to ignore him, as he obviously lacks any moral and ethical values.
    Obviously truth hurts to some Koreans, but his way of approaching them is not gonna get him any brownie points at all. Then again, if anybody was as picky and cruel hearted as he is, I could pin point out 1000s of things wrong about him and the things he favours. That’s if one BOTHERED to be that pessimistic with life and spend most of their time looking up negative issues about korea like he does. Someone surely has some self esteem problem to go to that extent of resorting to bringing another nation down to make himself feel better. He gets stirred up with any chance that allows him to bring down korea, and yet he condemns if a korean person gets stirred up like he does. Such an irony :) I blame his sheer ego. Should you not taunt them from the first place, they wouldn’t have any problems with you.
    Lets pretend you are obese and fat and barely have any hair on your scalp.
    I as an ethical being despite knowing this as a fact would make the moral decision to not pin point this out to you and stamp these evidential facts in your bones until you commit suicide.

    I’d really like to know GarlicBreath’s intention of his constant bitching, yes he is literally bitching about everything Korean.
    Does this help you sleep better at night? what is it? Were you mistreated at Samsung that you hold such grudge? Did a Kimbap almost make you choke and die of suffocation? There has to be a cause for all this unhealthy hate. I don’t consider GarlicBreath’s comments to be wise criticisms like Gerry’s. He seriously needs professional help as much as some Korean people here do because of his provoking.

    Perhaps with that spiteful mind of yours, why can’t you then at least relate to some koreans and their vengefulness regarding their colonization etc? Seems very hypocrtical don’t you agree? :)