Fake Atrocity Photos
Often Koreans will point to photographic ‘evidence’ of Japanese crimes in Korea. As far as I can see, most of the atrocities are either misattributed to the Japanese or are composite photos. Using ‘Japanflag’, a Korean purveyor of fake atrocity photos, lets take a look at one and analyse it.
Photograph purporting to be a rape of a woman
The Korean caption says ‘Woman being raped by Japanese soldier and then had her internal organs torn out’
This picture can be found here. To all appearances, it seems to be a picture of a Japanese soldier having taken a naked picture of a woman after perhaps raping her. It looks like they are outdoors. After that, it seems he murdered her. Here is the same picture of the bottom left side, enlarged.
But of course, Koreans dont have any real actrocities to claim, so they are forced to make them up. Here is the real picture before they altered it.
You can see that the photo by the Koreans is touched up to make it seem like they are outdoors, when they are actually indoors. The Korean photo has been cut to conceal the man on the right. In fact, that Japanese soldier has gone to a brothel to pay for sex, and in the real photo you can see the Chinese owner of the brothel on the right. So it is not a rape at all, it is a souvenir photo. Boorish perhaps, but not a crime. The other picture could be anyone at all (for all we know, the victim could be Japanese). In anycase, that photo was not taken in Korea, it was taken in China.
There were numerous other photos on that site that are verifiable fakes. However, they fit in with the false history being peddled by Korea.
I’m sorry, but it is just plain ignorant to deny the atrocities, as you have. You sure have a knack for taking a single instance and applying it to the entire country. I would like to see more faked photos. Would you mind specifying what other photos on the site are not real? I viewed the website with a petty translation system and saw nothing about them being faked. I seriously doubt that many of them are not real. How do you explain the body with the internal organs hanging out, anyway?
Even I know that “comfort women” were forced into these brothels. Some Japanese women were even forced into them. Many girls committed suicide to escape the misery. So, the real photo is in a brothel? How does that make the situation any less serious? I’d bet she isn’t there by her own will. And since when were Japanese soldiers forced to pay for sex at these brothels?
Before you accuse me of being Korean, I’m not. Seems like everyone who disagrees with you gets called a Korean.
This blog really is a piece of work.
흠. 안녕하세요
한국말 읽으실줄 아신다길래
한마디 하고가려고요.
한국 경제가 많이 어려워서..
한땐 힘이 없어서 잔인한 일본인들한테
당한사실을 일본은 강력히 부인하고잇습니다.
역사는 다 지난거라 중요하지 않으리라 믿을수도잇지만,
지금 이순간도 다 역사고, 나중에 후손들한테 기리 남겨질
것이고.. 거짓보다는 사실이 중요하기에 저는 일본인들이
지난 과거의 사실을 받아들이기를 바라는바 뿐입니다.
그리고 어차피 시간을 돌릴수도 없는거고,
저희가 원하는건 그들의 잘못된 행위의 인정과 사과 뿐입니다
사실상 아직도 한국이 힘이 없어 일본에게 받아야할 사과요구도
계획도 대책도 없지만. 이런 시기에서 독도가 자기땅이라고 우기는
그런일은 없어야 된다고 봅니다.
그리고 윗 사진은 제가봐도 가짜인것 같지만, 그만은 사진들중에
하나,둘 정도인것 같은데 그 사진 하나가지고 한국이 이렇다
저렇다 하는거 옳지 않다고 봅니다. 그리고 한국에는 아직까지도
일본강제침략기간 동안 폭행, 성폭행으로 휴유증을 알고 잇는사람들이
아직도 잇습니다.. 심지어는 원폭피해자의 2세가 장애를 얻고 태어납니다
이런사실들 증거들이잇는데 그것을 부인한다는 것은 정말 말도 안됩니다.
또한 한국인이 아닌 어찌 일본인이 희생자?!!???? 폭력을 거행하는사람들이
피해자이면.. 당하는사람이 가해자 인가요? 이해가 안갑니다..
여째서인지 설명이라도 해주실수 잇음좋겟습니다.
감사합니다.
코멘트해 줘서 진심으로 감사합니다. 서로의 이해는 커뮤니케이션으로부터 시작되겠지요.
이 일에 관해서 한국인과 이야기하는 것은 매우 어렵습니다. 한국에서는 중립적인 의견을 매스컴은 보도하지 않기 때문에 한국인의 역사 인식은 정말로 왜곡하고 있습니다. 우선, 김 완섭씨의 ‘친일파를 위한 변명’을 읽어 주세요. 한국의 피해망상은 잘못된 역사 인식으로부터 발생하고 있다고 생각합니다.
이론과 국제법을 근거해 생각하면 일본땅이라고 판단하겠지요. 한국의 독도에 대한 기록은 울릉도를 독도라고 지적하는 뿐입니다. 한국은 지금까지 명확한 지도를 제공한 적이 없습니다. 게다가 타케시마는 한국땅이 라고 인정하는 나라는 하나도 없어요. 일본은 평화 헌법이 있기 때문에 타케시마를 불법 점령해도 한국정부은 반격을 무서워하지 않아요. 많은 한국인은 일본이 영토 전쟁을 기도하고 있다고 망상하는데, 일본은 내일에라도 한국의 해군을 격파해 승리를 할 수 있는데 왜 공격하지 않는지 생각해 본 적이 없습니까? 일본은 평화 유지를 결정하고 있으니까요.
이 문제는 국제사법재판소에서 해결해야 할 것인데 한국정부측은 한국의 정치적인 입장에 대해서 자신이 없어서 국제사법재판소의 판단을 피하고 있습니다.
한국은 정말로 검증할 수 있는 증거가 있으면 국제사법재판소의 판단을 인정 하죠.
This doesn’t really prove anything because you haven’t provided a better context through which to understand the photos. All they did was edit out the blackboard, which is pretty insignificant in the long run. The real questions are why is she in a brothel, and is that her body in the corpse photo? Those are the only things that really matter: if she was forced into working the brothel, and if that is her corpse after being killed by the japanese soldier, then it would substantiate Korean claims, regardless of whether the blackboard was airbrushed out or not.
Actually, you have it all wrong. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. As for the women being forced to work there, you would have to discuss it with the Chinese brothel owner. Are there any Chinese prostitutes where you come from, and are they forced to do it? The airbrushing is significant because they wanted to show it happening outside, as if they had just dragged a women off the street and raped then murdered her. And it wasnt only airbrushing – they cropped the photo to remove the Chinese owner of the brothel.
That corpse could be any corpse. To me, it doesnt look like her. but then again, the picture doesnt show the head (or has been cropped to not show the head). That corpse could be absolutely anyone. How about this caption for that corpse – ‘Japanese woman disemboweled in China after Japanese surrender’.
Really, I find it amazing that in relation to the ww2 period that many people think there were no willing prostitutes in Asia. Really amazing considering the ample evidence of prostitution thriving in Asia since ancient times.
Lastly, lets us not forget that the site claimed the woman was a ‘Korean Woman’ that was ‘raped’, and I clearly demonstrated that she was neither Korean, nor raped.
I recognize some of the photos on the site as ones taken from the Nanking Massacre… is the caption you’re referring to in the photo or on the website? The ones in the photo look like Chinese characters to me; if the photo was indeed manipulated maybe the fault lies in the text itself? Where did you learn about the actual real photo?
Ah, I meant the textbook it was taken from… sorry if it wasn’t clear.
The caption I was referring to was the one on the website. I had to search around the net for the original, unaltered photo.
Unfortunately, people are quite likely to believe pictures without any doubt, and anti-Japanese websites, books use a lot of pictures which are mentioned to be fake, combined photographs and with wrong explanations. When historians use the pictures as evidence, it is necessary to mention when, where, and who took the picｔures. Any intelligent person should think about it before blindly believing
these captions.
The unaltered photo is on page 4 of the website so I think if the photo is indeed manipulated it probably is the fault of the Chinese textbook. I’m not sure what the caption says but I don’t really see any mention of her being Korean.
The point is that the photos don’t provide any proof one way or another. So in a sense I agree with you, maybe I’m making too much of a philosophical argument: the claims are either true or untrue themselves regardless of what the photo shows.
How can you say that you are not sure what the caption says but dont see any mention of her being Korean? The caption on the website says she is a Korean woman. Can you read it or not? If you are not sure about what the caption says, how would you know one way or the other?
I just visited Nanjing last week. Matt/www.japanflag.com has got me thinking…
maybe Nanjing also was faked/overhyped/distorted….
Maybe all those bones were replicas?
Anyway, the interesting thing about the Nanjing Massacre Museum was that it stood for “peace”. No more massacres. No more death.
Just like the Hiroshima atomic bomb museum.
Well, it seems that everyone does want peace….
It says 한여성 (韓女性) on the website. Its an abbreviation for 한국 여성, demonstrated here.
Shakuhachi, these are pictures from a Chinese-language book and a Korean-language website translating it (for what purpose is not clear). Shouldn’t your issue in this case be with the Chinese publisher over these “fakes,” since it is they who are “peddling” this “false history”?
Shakuhachi, was the Japanese imperial army responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of civilians? Was the Japanese imperial government responsible for waging war against China? Was the Japanese military officially involved in duping and/or forcing Korean women, Chinese, Dutch, Filipino, and Japanese women into sexual servitude?
I’m in the process of learning Korean so I couldn’t figure out the Korean subtitle in its entirety but I assumed 한여성 meant “one woman” not “Korean woman.”
I’m not certain if your translation of “한여성” as shown on Japanflag is accurate…. Even on the website you posted “한여성” is used as “대~한여성,” not by itself…. It may simply be a play on words, to sound like “dae~ han min guk.” In everyday Korean though, I don’t think 한여성=Korean woman though.
Although your efforts are admirable, my numerous responses in Korean to Koreans that write here should clue you in to my actual Korean ability. If it was ‘one woman’, it would be written ‘한 여성’ with a space, not ‘한여성’. The space completely changes the meaning and is basic grammar. Here it is in the Yahoo Korean dictionary, vividly illustrated for you.
The problem is with the Chinese publisher, but I just dont have high expectations of the Chinese government. If Korea was still a dictatorship, I wouldnt have high expectations of that country either, but now they are not, and I do have high expectations. Still, its bad form for that site to recycle pictures in this way.
The reason I only showed one photo was because it takes time to dissect them. You asked for another fake photo, well here it is. Same Japanflag site. Now maybe you can explain to me why I am ‘just plain ignorant’ not to believe this photo.
Have Koreans admitted that Koreans cooperated with the atrocities?
The space was one of the reasons I was unsure but it’s possible that it was a typo, seeing as how when it is used the second time in the same subtitle it does contain a space. Morever, it would not change the meaning to “Korean woman.” I took the liberty of contacting my Korean professor, Professor Park of Korean linguistics over at UCLA and she said you were using the wrong hanmun.
Your professor of linguistics must have enormous powers of conjecture. Lets assume that 한 is not 韓. It is certainly not 一 (일 = 1). So it wouldnt be ‘one woman’. Is your linguistics professor suggesting that it means 漢女性 and not 韓女性? One also has to ask that considering that Korean is a language that doesnt normally use plurals, and doesnt usually specify numbers of things when the subject is obvious, that the writers would feel the need to point out that it was ‘one woman’. Take a look at this google search. That should end the debate. To make it even clearer, here are several links where Korean women are using 한여성 as their handle name on internet BBS’s. Do you suppose they mean ‘one woman’? Links 1, 2, 3. Here is a woman that introduces herself ‘전 한여성 공무원 인데요,…..꼭’. Do you suppose she means ‘I am a one woman and public worker’, or ‘I am a Korean woman and public worker’?
In anycase, if the site made a mistake in their writing, I cant be blamed reading it the way they wrote it. Considering that most of the pictures on their site are fake, misattributed or of unknown origin, its no wonder. The main point of this is not a lesson in hangul, but the fact the picture and the caption is pure bunk, not matter what its interpretation.
I’m not sure what the correct hanmun would be but it’s definitely not the one you used (韓). I asked a gyopo friend and he said that “한여성” doesn’t merely mean “one woman” as I myself was equivocal about, but more generally can mean “some” or “a” woman. Nevertheless, your translation of it as “Korean woman” is still incorrect, regardless of if there is a space there or not. I agree with your general sentiment that the site is probably just Korean nationalistic propaganda but I feel your credibility in this circumstance might be weakened by what some might perceive as a deliberate mistranslation.
Glen, I think I updated my message to you a couple of minutes after you wrote your last message.
Shakuhachi (Matt) wrote:
But, Shak, you do not know for what purpose this is being translated, and there could be many reasons that have nothing to do with supporting the viewpoint in the Chinese book. I once had an uber-nationalist Korean decide that I was trying to spread pro-imperialist Japanese propaganda and he translated (poorly and selectively) a bunch of stuff I wrote and distributed it. If someone had happened across these things without knowing why they are there, they might get the idea that he was supporting a point of view he completely disagreed with. Another possibility is that this is a hanchongnyon student or even a North Korea (or North Korea sympathizer) trying to whip up anti-Japanese sentiment. You simply don’t know enough about the context to depict this as Korean “peddling” of what you call “false history.”
And, more importantly, since the book and its pictures are presented in Chinese, by a Chinese publisher, about atrocities that occurred in China (including those involving Korean comfort women), it is specious to blame this on Korea or Koreans as a whole for “peddling” this “false history.” Whether true or not, the peddling is being done by the Chinese publisher. You are so gung-ho to bash Korea that you’re smearing the whole country for things that, if they are indeed false, are perpetrated by someone from another country.
And I’ll be willing to bet dollars to donuts that these same books or pictures are reproduced in Japanese somewhere, too (some years ago, I believe I saw them while browsing some train station bookshop). Then the Japanese you so love are also guilty of “peddling false history.” Then your whole anti-Korean argument is moot.
And you should come clean with what you think is the false history. Are some of the pictures fake, in your opinion, or are all of them? Do you think tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians were or were not killed by the Japanese in Nanjing? Do you believe or not believe that tens of thousands of Korean women were duped, coerced, or forced into sexual slavery? And if they were duped, coerced, or forced into it, is it or is it not an on-going sex crime throughout the whole ordeal, including when the souvenir picture was taken?
What is the false history, Shakuhachi?
You keep saying that the Japanese leaders apologized, and they indeed did, but then it appears you are perpetrating the right-wing argument that undermines the apology, that these incidents being apologized for are “false history” (your very words). What part is the false history, Shakuhachi?
I have seen the photo I brought to attention used numerous times on Korea websites, and by Koreans online. This is the kind of image that younger Koreans have of the Japanese administrative period of Korea.
Yes, the picture is supposed to be an actrocity of the attack of Nanjing. Nothing to do with Korea, but Koreans keep using photos like these as ‘proof’ that Japan did those kinds of things in Korea.
Some people in Japan will believe the authenticity of the above photo. Many ‘actrocity photos’ have been published in Japanese newspapers and contrary to what you likely believe, are widely thought to be genunine.
Some of them are composite photos or airbrushed or otherwise altered, some of them are removed from their context (hundreds of dead bodies strewn on the ground – massacre or battlefield?), some are quite simply of unknown origin, and may or may not be the Japanese army.
Its quite hard to say. I am not an expert on Nanjing, so you have never heard me comment on it before. However I have read some criticisms of the book ‘The Rape of Nanking’, which contains many inaccuracies. I think it is certainly within the realm of possibility that a massacre took place, but equally possible that the wartime Chinese government may have exaggerated it for propaganda purposes.
Korea has had a long history of prostitution before the Japanese came to Korea. I am sure there were many willing prostitutes. On the otherhand, it seems that some girls were tricked by their parents and Korean pimps into being prostitutes. You find exactly the same thing happening in many parts of Asia at this very moment. While the Japanese government did not do enough to protect the civil rights of some of the women involved, I think the greater responsibilty is shouldered by the Korean parents that sold their female children into prostitution and the Korean pimps that profited from it.
In short, I think the majority of the women were normal prostitutes, and a minority were tricked and sold out by their parents. In anycase, tricked or not, all the women were paid for their ‘work’. If there is some soul searching about the ‘comfort women’ to be done, it should be done by Koreans that place so little value on the rights of females that parents would sell their own flesh and blood to the sex industry.
This picture has nothing to do with Korea, and it is unknown if the Chinese brothel owner forced the girl to be a prostitute or not. I choose not to speculate.
False history is the kind of image the Koreans are trying to create about the Japanese rule of Korea. Here is a case in point.
From the introduction of Jo Jung-rae’s Arirang
“How many Jews were killed by the Hitler government of Germany during the Second World War? According to the Jews the number was three or four million.
So how many of us Koreans were massacred and killed by the Japanese during the 36 years of Japanese colonialism? Is it three million? Or four million? Or is it six million? Unfortunately that estimate has not been made public or official. My estimate is between three and four million. With the writing of Arirang, I am going to make that figure concrete.”
There were not any large scale massacres of any kind in Korea, yet this is the kind of image of Japan that Koreans want to show. That is false history.
Most of the apologies are vague because they cannot admit to the specifics of what the Koreans say they did. In my opinion the Koreans keep asking for and rejecting apologies because the Japanese government is foolish enough to play the game. I think its a waste of time catering to Korea’s persecution complex
Shakuhachi (Matt) wrote, in response to me:
Yes, but it’s also available in Japan, too, put up by Japanese. It is crafty of you to post this photo, allegedly doctored by Chinese and reprinted in Europe, North America, Japan, and Korea, and call it the “peddling” of “false history” by Koreans.
But that’s your m.o. Your primary motivation in having this site is to spread animosity toward Korea, plain and simple. But if you focused on Japan with the hate-filled scrutiny, you would find many things that you choose to ignore.
You would rather scrutinize Korea, post things that may or may not be legitimate gripes, and then depict them as if they represent everyone’s view.
You are no better than the Japan-bashers in Korea, who nitpick every little thing they can find and then portray them as if they represent the true face of Japan.
Are you referring to the Comfort Woman picture or the other atrocities. The comfort woman picture and many others like it are used by Koreans and non-Koreans alike to depict the humiliating plight of the Comfort Women.
But the other atrocities? I have not seen atrocities against Chinese used as “proof” that Japan did this in Korea, because there’s plenty of evidence in Korea to begin with.
Now, it’s possible that these photos and photos like them are used to demonstrate the general viciousness of the Japanese military in general at that time, and it’s true that the Japanese military was brutal in Korea, in Guam, in the Philippines, in China, etc., so it is a valid point to hold up such photos, if they are legitimately Japanese military atrocities, as evidence of Japanese imperial-era brutality.
“Contrary to what I believe”? Shakuhachi, you haven’t the faintest idea what I believe because, as you’ve made clear time and time again, you think of people in one-dimensional caricatures based on your world view.
I know there are Japanese who think those pictures are genuine, or that the pictures genuinely depict Japanese military atrocities even if some of them are not accurately labeled. You see, I have Japanese relatives and friends, including some who work as history teachers in the school system or university system. I’ve been to Japan many times and see evidence that plenty of Japanese are aware of Japanese military atrocities.
It would be nice to think that the Japanese army went into China and nobody innocent got killed, huh? Then you can feel good about your unconditional love of Japan.
I was not claiming you had. But I think your view on this would be an interesting insight into your true beliefs.
I even gave you a way out: you could have said that you thought tens of thousands were killed but not hundreds of thousands, as people like Iris Chang and the Chinese government claim. But you said about even tens of thousands of deaths that, “it’s hard to say.”
I think this really exemplifies what people find so scary and offensive about you and your m.o.: you don’t want to believe bad stuff about Japan. You find comfort in the possibility that maybe it’s all made up.
Yeah, I have read the right-wing Japanese criticisms of Iris Chang’s book, but when you distill it all down, they are still not a denial that there were atrocities committed. They only thing they can do is cast aspersions on where and when they happened, not that they happened. But even then, there are many parts they are not able to discredit, including Western accounts of events happening. So even if the critics are right, there are still thousands upon thousands, probably in the tens of thousands, that were killed.
Face it, people from your beloved Japan, people I am probably related to, killed untold thousands of innocent Chinese, as well as others.
You are parroting the right-wing defense, which attempts to discredit the claim by a vague assertion that there were “willing” prostitutes. Well, then, what percent? Give a ballpark. 1%? 10%? 50%? 90%?
When the comfort women issue first came to light, there were stories of girls being duped by stepfathers (Korean) and schoolmasters (Japanese), job brokers (Japanese), etc. But ultimately this was orchestrated by the Japanese government for the military.
That some Koreans were involved in this duplicitous and evil act does not absolve the Japanese government of moral responsibility, which is why Japanese historians pushed their government to admit responsibility, which was done.
But you, Shakuhachi, seem to believe that the Japanese government (or the Japanese military, take your pick) was not ultimately responsible, right?
Yes, this is true. And this was happening in Korea, too, a country where women have historically been maltreated.
But you see, Shakuhachi, that does nothing to absolve the Japanese government of responsibility. They denied it for decades, and then were forced by Japanese historians who found the records to admit they had orchestrated this. Why is this so difficult for you to accept?
Shakuhachi, they were the ones stripping their rights away. Koreans in Korea had few rights at all, thanks to the Japanese colonial administration. This is why tens of thousands of Koreans voluntarily chose to go to Japan proper or to Japan-controlled Manchuria, because then they might actually be granted the rights they were promised (though these voluntary migrants certainly are NOT the only Koreans to go to Japan and Manchuria; many were forcibly mobilized).
Those people who did that shoulder great responsibility. But the Japanese government which mobilized them and set up the system that forcibly held them there is at least as responsible.
Read George Hicks’s “The Comfort Women.” Japanese in Korea were duping these women. You can’t push this on parents and prostitutes.
I’m sure you’d like to believe that’s all it boils down to. But it doesn’t. The Japanese imperial government was directly responsible for the sexual servitude of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, and has admitted so, your denials notwithstanding.
You are merely parroting right-wing propaganda that, like you, wishes to pretend Japan historically has really done nothing wrong. You are the saem as the nationalist Koreans you so despise.
Held in sexual slavery in dangerous conditions, repeatedly raped and then “compensated” by pennies, and you think that makes it all okay. If you really think so, Shakuhachi, then you are sick.
You know what? You are right. And I made that point many times since this issue came out. But the cases you site are only a percentage of the total. But ultimately, the Japanese government is responsible for those and all the rest.
“Chinese brothel owner”? Even if that particular brothel was run by a Chinese (as the right-wing critics claim), the government has admitted that they were running brothels.
“The Koreans”? See, this is what you do: fine a nice little piece to rip on, and then depict it as if it represents the entire country. Well, wouldn’t Andrew Nahm’s more balanced history be as representative? There are others, how about theirs?
Your problem, Shakuhachi, is that you don’t want to believe any of it. So even if something utterly objective and level-headed were in front of you, you would reject its assertions, too.
I know people who were beaten up in prison by Japanese guards for not worshipping the emperor. I know people who were beaten by Japanese officers who went into their home late at night for “hording” rice so they wouldn’t starve. I know people who were forced to work in mines during the war. I know lots of people who have experienced these things.
Believe it or not, not all of these “victims” hate Japan. Some of them think Japan is a good country or that Japanese are basically good people. They blame the people who beat them. Or they blame the emperor for allowing this.
But regardless of hw they feel, the treatment was real. Japanese military and governmental authorities did some horrible things. People were beaten, they were tortured, many died. Tens of thousands of people. More if you count those who were killed while wearing a Japanese uniform or through war-induced starvation.
You cite the intro to a novel as historical fact? I suppose you think “The Da Vinci Code” is an accurate history of the Catholic Church, too.
The hunting down of the Righteous Armies… the suppression of the Samil Movement? These were not large scale massacres? They were larger than Kwangju in 1980, and I would classify that as a large-scale massacre.
I’m with you, though, on any claims that what Korea experienced was somehow comparable to the Holocaust. To me, that is nothing short of offensive. Not even what North Korea is doing to its own people now is on the scale of the Holocaust.
But on the Comfort Women issue, the apologies have pretty much admitted government culpability. Culpability you are deflecting and denying.
They keep demanding apologies because right-wing zealots with the same agenda as yours keep saying tht what is being apologized for didn’t really happen.
Kushibo really hit the nail on the head! You took the words out of my mouth.
Just because someone is tricked into believing something does not mean that they are part of the problem. This photograph has not been ‘allegedly doctored by Chinese’, it was doctored by the Chinese. Put the original photograph next to the Chinese one and it is immediately apparent – apparently not to you though.
Actually you are fairly typical of the way I view most (not all) Koreans. Knee jerk, reactionary, quick to call legitimate analysis ‘hate’.
The woman in the picture, who may or may not have been part of ‘the comfort woman system’.
Lets see the evidence then. You always refer to this or that, but we never see it.
Who knows? As I said before, Korea has had a rich history in prostitution before the Japanese came, while they were there, after they left and in the present day too. Why dont you give a ballpark figure?
Well you can obfuscate the issue by trying to imply it was mainly evil stepfathers or Job brokers (Japanese), but you are trying to turn a minority of cases into a model for the majority of cases. Koreans sold their female children into the sex industry. Its as simple as that. The parents did it for the money. The Korean pimps also did it for the money. In Korea itself, Japanese were not the only customers of girls tricked in this way. Korean men took part too.
There werent enough protections in place to protect women. But protecting women from the predations of their parents is nearly impossible. What is unthinkable to you was not unthinkable to the Koreans at the time. You look at the era with a modern prejudice. I think its safe to say that it is unlikely a girl could have been tricked by pimps without being assisted by the girls parents.
Their parents got the money when they sold their girls. The Korean pimps collected the money from the soldiers. How much actually reached the girls is a matter for the girls parents and the Korean pimps.
You asked me about that particular picture and I answered your question.
I am talking about what I have seen Koreans say in real life, and then backed up by links here.
Quite frankly, that would make me more like Koreans than I would feel comfortable with.
I have met people that say different things, old people. I met an old woman running a Yogwan how tough it must have been during the colonial era, and she surprised me by saying that she actually has fond memories of the time. I asked her if the Japanese were cruel, and she told me that the ones she knew were nice. Another man was a volunteer in the imperial army. He told me how he was a citizen of Japan and when Japan lost the war, he lost his citizenship. He likes Japan and the only grudge he has against the Japanese government is the fact he is ineligible for the veterans pension.
As for being forced to work in the mines, when was this? Japan only applied the labor mobilization law to Korea in the last 7 months of the war before defeat. Not many people were able to be mobilized but from the way you talk you would think the whole country had been mobilized.
No one can deny that the last couple of years of the war was harsh. Civil rights were extremely restricted all over the empire.
The introduction of the story is not the story itself. I have heard Koreans say ‘millions killed by the Japanese’ many, many times. So have many readers here.
They are certainly not large scale in the historical sense, and certainly not in the context that I said it in. As for the ‘Righteous Armies’, the death of soldiers on the battlefield cannot be considered a massacre except in the rhetorical sense. Not that Korea ever showed any significant resistance to the Japanese anyway.
I thought you werent accepting these apologies.
I suspect it is something within the Korean psyche that keeps wanting to hear these apologies – and lets not forget more compensation.
You completely miss the point. You say I paint Koreans with a broad brush, but I say in the case of Koreans, it is fair to do so. Where was the Korean outcry when DJ Doc made a song called ‘Fuck Japan’? Nonexistent. Infact, it did well on the Korean charts. Where is the Korean outrage when a well known Korean novelist says that between 3 and 4 million Koreans were killed by the Japanese? Nonexistent, because many Koreans think the same. Where was the Korean indignation when hundreds of thousands of Koreans rose up demanding death when the American soldier drivers of an amoured vehicle accidentally ran over a couple of schoolgirls that in any other country would be thought be trying be to run over (walking in the middle of the road, hands over ears)? Where was the Korean sense of justice when a mainstream TV program in Korea, ‘I want to know that’, ran a story on English teachers looking down on Korean women, getting female underage students drunk then having threesomes, and molestering kids without offering any proof at all?
Korean society not only permits but encourages this kind of slander against non Koreans, whether they be American, Japanese or from other countries.
You call me a anti Korean hater, but opposing Korean hate and extremism is what I am I doing here. Funny that you should call someone that exposes truthful facts as a hater.
Very, very few people would call your analysis legitimate. Fortunately for you, but unfortunately for anyone who would ever hope to get you to see that you are exactly the same as the Japan bashers in Korea, all those people are pretty much on your blog already.
Problems arise when Koreans exaggerate the extent of Japanese atrocities, and downplay their own role in them. Many girls were sold by their parents to “brokers” (Korean pimps). A Korean professor 金貴玉 reported that similar things happened during Korean war and Korean military had comfort women http://web.archive.org/web/20020226021647/www.asahi.com/national/update/0223/028. How much outrage in Korea over this story? Where are protests against the Korean government for not teaching about it? What have happened to thousands of Koreans who were kidnapped by North Korean agents? Nobody cares. Koreans seems to be willing to ignore situations where Koreans are being victimized by other Koreans.
Mika, research on the subject by no means relies only on Korean sources, so even if the Korean numbers or circumstances are “exaggerated” as you suggest, that doesn’t absolve the Japanese government of responsibility.
And Koreans victimizing Koreans is an outrage, and it has been (still is?) a serious problem until recently. Right now, women from poorer countries (especially Russia and Southeast Asia) are being victimized by Korean pimps. There are people trying to do something about this; there is considerable outrage.
But the existence of such serious problems does not absolve the Japanese imperial government any more than the Tiananmen Massacre can be an excuse for O.J. Simpson.
Even the Japanese government acknowledges this, so why do you Japan apologists go through such contortions to deny it? Is your pro-Japan paradigm so dependent on a pure and innocent Japanese nation that you simply cannot come to grips with Japanese military atrocities?
The song was created in response to a a similar song (concerning Korea) from a Japanese rap group.
I think it is you that should be providing more proof. You have the tendency to write about a single instance and conclude that the entire country is the same way. It’s sad that you resort to generalizing and stereotyping the entire ethnicity. I agree with what Kushibo has been saying.
So, you were aware this was a Chinese book? Why post then?
The links you’ve posted are still unconvincing. I believe the han hanmun can also be used as a surname and “hanyuhsung” might also be a full Korean name. I’m not sure why the BBS name’s would support your argument, seeing how having someone call themselves “a/some/one girl” is no less improbable than having them name themselves “Korean girl” in a setting where everyone is writing Korean and it might be assumed that they all are Korean. In the ladyok site where she introduces herself for example, I think it’s more logical for her to claim she’s “one woman public worker” than “Korean woman public worker.” Of the results from google, many of them are repeats and even on the few sites where “韓여성” may mean Korean woman, they are headlines or lists and/or possibly cases of poor grammar. A search for what I think is the correct usage for “Korean woman” 韓國 여성 will turn out a substantially greater number of hits.
At any rate, I should also think it’s important to note here that in the original text from Japanflag, they did not use hanmun, you’ve ascribed it to the hangul. Even if it is possible that hanyuhsung=Korean girl, which I am still highly doubtful that can be, it’s still a phrase which probably the vast majority of Korean language speakers (including my Korean language professor and nearly everyone I know who speaks Korean) would still not interpret as “Korean woman.” If there is a bone to pick with the site, it is that it did not definitively describe the picture as being of a Chinese girl and some might assume she is Korean. Again, I agree with your sentments that the site is probably Korean nationalistic propaganda, but I feel it’s ambiguity makes it more difficult to deal with…
Which song? When? Links?
Shaky did some Gorean guy ass-rape you? Is that why you’re so angry?
Keep it clean. I will leave your post here undeleted just to let people know just what kind of language is unacceptable. Its obvious that you have no ability to argue on an intellectual level.
I agree with Shakuhachi (Matt), that that kind of language is uncalled for. If you have something worth saying, you wouldn’t say it like that.
Thank you Kushibo. No matter what our intellectual differences, you have never resorted to crude insults.
Well, not against you. I have railed on some people before. Not lately, though.
Very interesting.
The comfort women were the professional prostitues in that they are paid:in fact, they are paid much more than solders.
There were many brokers who recrueted the girls.
Some girls were deceived and sent to the brothels by the brokeres..
Some brokers were Koreans, and some Japanese.
Some Korean parents sold their daughters to the brokers.
Japanse army used the brokers to recruite the prostitutes.
Japanese army set up some of the brothels.
Deceiving is wrong.Who is to be blamed? –Brokers.
Selling daughers is wrong.Who is to be blamed?– parents
Supposing prostitution is wrong,who is to be blamed?–soldiers who bought the prostitues and Japanese army.
In this sense,Japanese government should be blamed for what it did sixty years ago.
In this sense, Japanese government should take the responsibility for that..
In response to that,Japanese government has expressed apologies, and it paid compensation to the Korean government for what Japanse army did during the war.
It is all right for the people on the site to point out the fact sixty years ago Japanese army set up some of the brothel and the fact some soldiers bought prostitutes,and they can rightly blame for that
If the people on the site are putting up this photo out of the sense of Justice,and if they really want to learn from the past, it seems what is pressing issue for them is to point out the fact there are still Korean brokers who sell Korean girls to foreign countries just like sixty years ago and the fact that the Korean government is easy on those Korean brokers.
But it seems they are not doing it out of the sense of justice. they are just doing out of hatred.
It is wrong to use the misleading photo to reinforc nationalism and it is wrong to use it to blame endlessly Japanese government regardless of the fact she has already apologized and compensated..
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In this context 전 한여성 공무원 인데요 means “I’m a female civil servant.” It is the influence of English; though unnecessary in Korean ‘한’ for “one” or “a” does get used that way. If Shak wants to say it is significance that the ‘한’ and ‘여성’ are stuck together with no space between them, he has to explain how there is a space between 공무원 and 인데요 when there shouldn’t be. Poor “spacing” skills are a widespread problem among native speakers of Korean.
With rare exception the only time you are going to find ‘한’ not in kanji and still used to mean 韓 is in headlines.
Very well. Point taken. Poor spacing then. I will update the site with this information. Thanks to you and Glen for your assistance.
Very, very few people would call your analysis legitimate.
I wouldn’t either. Real research is done by objective and neutral academics like Yoshimi Yoshiaki, who by the way also wrote about Comfort Women – to all ultra-conversative revisionist rightwing nuts like the author of this blog: Read it, and feel humbled. You have no idea what you’re actually talking about, since everything you do is parroting stuff other revisionist parrots did for decades. Do some real research and you earn credits for it. Post copycat propaganda lacking coherence and internal logic as this and you just waist my time (20 minutes to read through this page, I dearly regret it). Won’t see me reading here again.
To Kushibo, I understand your feeling to answer back such bloodcurdling n******e, but it’s really not worth it. You can influence on people you meet in person much better because they can’t hide behind the text like this guy here does. You can read between the lines of his answers that he already made his mind up. Better write a posting about this blog including a warning (and don’t set a link). Not much else you can do, even revisionists have a right to express their views.
To Haifa: This blog really is a piece of work.
No, it’s not – the design is freely available from a wordpress templates website (and the content here is far from nice). What you see is three minutes of work. See the footer for further information.
White said
“To Kushibo, I understand your feeling to answer back such bloodcurdling n******e”
When someone gives up on reasoning, and just apeals to an authority and emotions, that’s the end of rational dialogue.
Just give good reasons and evidences to refute what Matt presented and a rational person will judge whether he is right or not.If your presentation is persuasive enough, Matts will just lose.
Kushibo wrote in his blog on may 14th “It is an insult to the Comfort Women and the forced laborers, for example, because it says to those people, “Sorry, but your actual suffering is not enough for us to whip up anger against Japan, so we have to make stuff up.”
Here Kushibo seems to imply that some Korean people made stuff up on the specific issue.What Matts is claiming is that some Korean people made suff up on other issues too.
Personally I think that Japan has done injustice to Korea during the colonization. I am sorry.
But it is an insult to real Korean victims if you fabricate history,and it is also an insult to them if you don’t face up to criticisms in and just run away.
If you want to see real research, you should read books written by Ikuhiko Hata(秦郁彦). I personally don’t think Yoshimi Yoshiaki is an objective academic at all. But even he has admitted that many girls were deceived by pimps and there’s no evidence that they were forced into brothels by the Japanese government. If they were forcibly taken by the Japanese government, there would have been mass demonstrations (There are accounts/photos/records of demos during the colonization period). However, there are no record of demonstrations involving this.
Anyway, original topic is about Koreans using faked photos, and we don’t tolerate this as it creates misconceptions which in turn create hatred.
It is way too easy to blame ultra-conversative revisionist rightwing nuts when you see or read accounts that do not fit your preconceptions. Once upon a time, anyone who saw anything wrong with the Glory of the Conquistadors was considered a little quacky. Once upon a time, Custer’s Last Stand was considered a textbook example of a story of the great American heroism. Many American fathers believed that all young boys should have the beautified story of Custer’s failed genocide read to them. If you had suggested otherwise at the time (which was as recently as the 1970s) you were likely to have been ostracized as a nutcase. It took over a hundred years before people realized that Custer was at best reckless and at worst a treacherous insubordinate murderer. It took until the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America before Columbus’s excesses were aired to the public attention. Blaming “nuts” is an easy way out for people who don’t want to think. Most people don’t, so it takes time for truth to surface.
If you read historians like Yatsuhiro Nakagawa, you will find some solid facts that will really twist your brain. Nakagawa doesn’t rely on sensational photographs or stories of misery and oppression. His book is all math. It subtracts considerablly from its capacity to reach the general public, but leaves little room for attack. The contrast with the hysteric Korean finger pointing also goes a long way in explaining why the Japanese almost always lose out in the propaganda arena.
To those of you who have the linguistic ability I suggest you read this book. His book proves conclusively that Japan never gained a penny out of its rule of Korea and Korean gains from Japan substancially outstripped any “exploitation” by Japan and that any claims to the contrary is pure fiction. It is hard to argue the numbers. Although it is a really boring read.