The above are two Korean newspaper advertisements for “comfort women” (military prostitutes) in 1944. The ad on the left was placed in the “Gyeongseong Ilbo” on July 16, 1944 and offered women between seventeen and twenty-three years old 300 yen per month to work as “comfort women.” It also offered an advance payment of 3,000 yen. The ad on the right was placed in the “Maeil Shinmun” on October 27, 1944 and also offered 300 yen per month for “healthy” women between eighteen and thirty.

The newspaper ads suggest that, at least in Korea, the recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable. They are also evidence that the women were well paid. For example, a commenter going by the name of “Void” wrote that the salary of a lieutenant in the Imperial Japanese Army was only 110 yen per month, which means that the women would have been receiving almost triple the salary of a Japanese army lieutenant.

Yes, some women may have been kidnapped and turned into prostitutes by pimps and others, but I think the money was probably a big attraction for many desperately poor families and women in colonial Korea. Korean women have often sacrificed themselves for their families and male siblings, and I think this may have been considered one such sacrifice.

Posted by Gerry-Bevers, filed under Uncategorized. Date: March 2, 2007, 6:51 am | 207 Comments »

207 Responses

  1. Ken Says:

    The Professor who defined ‘comfort wemen’ as prostitutes advocated that Japanese exploitation during in Korea is fabrication.
    http://japanese.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2004/11/20/20041120000000.html
    Honest person is existing even in Korea.

  2. Matt Says:

    Gerry, I am surprised you didn’t know about this. Actually, there are quite a few documents out there that paint a much more nuanced picture of the “comfort woman problem” than the mass media deigns to inform us of.

    I have been working on a post about comfort women for a while, and I think I have the basic structure of the post thought out. It is going to be very long.

  3. fruitbonbon Says:

    It is just a minor thing but…

    婦 in Japanese does not necessarily mean wife or wives. For instances, 看護婦 (nurse),家政婦 (maid) etc. In general, it just means woman or women. Sometimes it means wife or wives as you said.

    I am just afraid your statement about this might confuse people.

  4. nighthawk Says:

    I’m a native speaker of Japanese, too, and I guarantee that fruitbonbon-san is right. “Comfort women” is a perfect translation in that everybody in wartime Japan knew what “ianfu” meant while it was not literal.

  5. ub Says:

    http://nullpo.2log.net/home/kyouji/archives/blog/main/2007/02/26_145604.html#1172415370

    13 名前:(´・ω・`)(`ハ´  )さん 投稿日:2007/02/25(日) 23:58:14 wmxQcrC3
    慰安婦 基礎知識
    当時、斡旋売春は日本では合法。禁止されたのは戦後しばらくしてから。慰安所を経営
    していたのは、国から許可をもらった民間の業者。軍は現地で業者の管理(性病予防と
    無理やり連れてこられて働かされている人がいないかどうか)をわりと厳しくしていた。
    それらを裏付ける公式文書も多数出ている。=これが80年代後半になってなぜか軍が
    営業していたとの言いがかりにつながる。(広めたのは朝日新聞)

    実際には、軍が女の人を連れてくるといった暇なことはしてない(証拠もまったくない)
    慰安所はただの売春宿。働いていた女性の中には日本人もいた。現地でリクルートされた
    人もいた。家が貧しくて親に売られた娘も多数。借金を返し終われば足を洗うことも可能。
    戦争初期は危険地域での営業のため、稼ぎはとんでもなく良かった。戦争末期は不明。
    (総理大臣の月給が8百円の時代に、慰安婦の月収は2千円。2年で貯金2万6千円)
    なお、働き口があると騙して連れて行ったりしたのは、民間業者(主に朝鮮人)。また、
    慰安所以外でもぐりの商売をしていた者もいた(バレたら捕まる)

    現在「私は従軍慰安婦だった」という韓国人たちの証言内容は、証言するたびに内容が
    変わり、矛盾も多いため、著しく信憑性に欠ける。また、そういった証言を繰り返す者
    でも、正式な裁判では無理やり連行されたと証言したものはおらず、実際には「売られ
    たと」証言している。

    当時管理売春は合法で、問題は「慰安婦狩り」なるものを軍が組織的に行っていたのか
    どうかであるが慰安婦狩りの証拠がどうしても出てこないので左翼は最近では「好きで
    やってた人以外は広義の強制売春にあたる」などという苦しすぎる主張をしています。
    今の風俗嬢だって全員が好きでやってるわけではないだろうに。

    ちなみに現在日本では、朝日の作った“従軍慰安婦問題”は捏造だったのがバレた
    ので最近は朝日ですらスルーしている。
    しかしこの捏造報道で「従軍慰安婦」というと、海外では軍用性奴隷などと呼ばれる
    ように、日本軍によって郷里から強制連行され、戦地では何の自由もなく、もちろん
    無給で、ひたすら兵士にもてあそばれた、というイメージが定着している
    過去未来の全ての日本人に対する朝日新聞の罪は、限りなく重い。

    3 名前:名無しさん[] 投稿日:2000/04/12(水) 05:57
    終戦後じゃなくて戦中の話…昔、住んでたトコの大家の婆さんの話なんだけど
    戦時中、川のそばにある畑で一生懸命に農作業してたら土手を歩いていた
    朝鮮人の慰安婦(!)2人が通りかかって
    「アンタ、若くて綺麗なのになんでそんな地ベタに這いつくばって働いてるのサ?
    アタシ等みたいな仕事すりゃ、こんな綺麗な洋服着て美味しいものいくらだって
    食べることもできるじゃん。バッカみたい」とケタケタ笑って、若い頃の婆さんを
    嘲ったんだそうです。
    その話を聞いてから、いわゆる「従軍慰安婦問題」の胡散臭さに気が付きました。
    ネタと思うかもしれないけど、本当の話です。

    72 名前:(´・ω・`)(`ハ´  )さん[sage] 投稿日:2005/12/27(火) 15:08:31 ID:RJuKLSvv
    この従軍慰安婦の問題は、サヨク作家の野阪昭如ですら無かったって言ってる。
    自軍の中に何千人も朝鮮半島出身兵士がいたのに、朝鮮人女性を無理やり慰安婦に仕立て上げたりしたら
    軍の統制が取れるわけ無いと言ってた。反乱が起きると。そりゃそうだ。

    99 名前:(´・ω・`)(`ハ´  )さん[] 投稿日:2005/07/27(水) 18:12:03 ID:4suiNzTO
    あの時代、極東一帯は冷夏が続き飢饉の連続。日本の東北地方でも一家が餓死しない為
    に娘を売ることが多かった。日本でもこれが5.15事件や2.26事件の根っこの一つと言われ
    てます。半島や中国でも同様な事態であったわけで、やむなく娘を売りたい奴らはたく
    さんいた。で、売春業者は娘を楽々買うことが出来たわけだ。そりゃ娘本人にすれば屈辱
    的なことで、今の社会でも許すことは出来なかい行為だろうが、当時の社会、時代から
    すれば、合法的、且つ、それで他の家族が生き延びることが出来たのが事実だ。この婆
    さんの人生が不幸であったことは事実で同情はするが、
    それを【外交問題に利用したり】【現代の人権問題にすり替えて拉致被害者の問題を誤魔化したり】
    【韓国や中国の年金制度の不備を、日本に責任転嫁する】のは全くの筋違いの話。
     
    22 名前:(´・ω・`)(`ハ´  )さん 本日のレス 投稿日:2007/02/26(月) 00:00:07 wmxQcrC3
    ところが日本の政治家の中には、「やってもいないこと」を「やりました」
    とウソをつくことが「良心」だと錯覚している人がいる。河野洋平氏がその典型で、読売が
    報じた通り「河野談話」には証拠がなかった。それなのに「やりました」と河野氏は言った。
    これはほかならぬ河野氏自身が認めていることなのである。
    http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4121500156/

    河野談話作成に当たった関係者は、この談話が教科書への慰安婦記述の根拠と
    されたことへの、総じての当惑の思い、あるいは批判が強く存在することが明らかと
    なった。つまり同談話はあくまでも「外交・政治の産物」であり、
    事実を重んずるべき教科書記述の根拠とされるには問題がある、との感想である。

     強制連行の証拠は見あたらなかった。元慰安婦を強制的に連れてきたという人の
    証言を得ようと探したがそれも、どうしてもなかった。
    結局談話発表の直前にソウルで行った元慰安婦十六名の証言が決め手になった。
    彼女達の名誉のために、これを是非とも認めて欲しいという
    韓 国 側 の 強 い 要 請 に応えて、
     納 得 で き る 証 拠、証 言 は な か っ た が 強制性を認めた。
     もしもこれが日本政府による国家賠償の前提としての話だったら、通常の裁判同様、
    厳密な事実関係の調査に基づいた証拠を求める。これは両国関係に
      配 慮 し て 善 意 で 認 め た も の である。
    (櫻井よしこ「密約外交の代償」「文塾春秋」平成9年4月)[3,p58]
    http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~nippon/jogbd_h11_2/jog107.html

  6. ub Says:

    >> Gerry-Bevers-san

    http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%96%B0%E3%82%B4%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%8B%E3%82%BA%E3%83%A0%E5%AE%A3%E8%A8%80%E3%80%883%E3%80%89-%E5%B0%8F%E6%9E%97-%E3%82%88%E3%81%97%E3%81%AE%E3%82%8A/dp/4094051430/ref=sr_1_10/249-4600870-4492358?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1172858588&sr=8-10

    “Shin-gomanism sengen 3″ is the best introductory book on the problem of “Comfort women” (though Yoshinori kobayashi is well-known for his right-wings attitude)

    This book shows many clues about the uncertainty of comfort women including the advertisements in your post.

  7. Transpacific Triangle | by Graham Webster » Abe’s ‘Comfort Women’ denial: U.S. reaction, a victim speaks, and classifieds Says:

    […] Occidentalism posts two Korean newspaper ads from 1944 seeking 慰安婦, or “comfort women,” who were promised what amounts to a salary and a signing bonus. The newspaper ads suggest that, at least in Korea, the recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable. They are also evidence that the women were well paid. For example, a commenter going by the name of “Void” wrote that the salary of a lieutenant in the Imperial Japanese Army was only 110 yen per month, which means that the women would have been receiving almost triple the salary of a Japanese army lieutenant. […]

  8. Gerry-Bevers Says:

    Thank you, Fruitbonbon & Nighthawk.

    Yes, 看護婦 (nurse) and 家政婦 (maid) are good examples of the Chinese character 婦 being used to mean “woman” rather than “wife,” which suggests that “comfort women” is a better translation of 慰安婦 than “comfort wives.” At any rate, I will delete the last part of my post to avoid any confusion.

    Nighthawk,

    What did you mean when you said “everybody in wartime Japan knew what ‘ianfu’ meant”? Did you mean that they knew it to mean “prostitute”? Would Koreans have known from the word that they were signing up to be prostitutes?

    Matt,

    No, I did not know about the ads in the newspapers, though it does not surprise me that such ads were placed since I did understand that “comfort women” were openly recruited in Korea.

    If your post on “comfort women” is near completion, Matt, maybe now would be a good time to post it since the issue is in the news?

  9. Matt Says:

    If your post on “comfort women” is near completion, Matt, maybe now would be a good time to post it since the issue is in the news?

    Unfortunately, it is not near completion. It is a sensitive issue so I need to have it perfectly written in every aspect. There is still a huge amount of research and writing to do.

  10. jion999 Says:

    Mr. Gerry-Bevers

    Did you mean that they knew it to mean “prostitute”? Would Koreans have known from the word that they were signing up to be prostitutes?

    The word “ianfu” (慰安婦) is started to be used after the war. Soldiers called them “chousen P” (朝鮮P) in those days. P means a prostitute.
    Korean must have known it. There were many Koreans as soldiers or workers in Japanese army and they used ian-jyo (慰安所 or P屋),too。

  11. Gerry-Bevers Says:

    Jion,

    The above ads were placed in 1944. That means that the word “ianfu” (慰安婦) was also being used before the end of the war.

    Also, are you sure that the “P” in “Chousen P” stood for “prostitute”? It seems a little strange that the Japanese would use the first letter of an English word to mean “prostitute.”

  12. Emmanuel_Chanel Says:

    I don’t hear that P wasn’t for Prostitutes.
    I hear that it was based on Chinese pronunciation of some Chinese word (Yoshinori Kobayashi) but I don’t remember the detail.

  13. jion999 Says:

    Mr.Gerry-Bevers
    There was the word “ianfu” (慰安婦). But it was not used offenly. The official documents of Japanese army used the word “jyuugyouhu” (従業婦). Soldiers called them “Chousen P”.

    It seems a little strange that the Japanese would use the first letter of an English word to mean “prostitute.”

    It is not strange. Japanese does not like to say “prostitute”so clearly. That’s why they use the first letter of an English word only.

  14. jion999 Says:

    Mr.Gerry-Bevers
    This is an official document of Japanese army regarding comfort women matter.
    http://ameblo.jp/user_images/eb/bd/10001328706.jpg
    This is too difficult for foreigners to read. This shows the translation to modern Japanese.
    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%BB%8D%E6%85%B0%E5%AE%89%E6%89%80%E5%BE%93%E6%A5%AD%E5%A9%A6%E7%AD%89%E5%8B%9F%E9%9B%86%E3%81%AB%E9%96%A2%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E4%BB%B6
    The official document of Japanese army called comfort women as “慰安所従業婦” (women workers at ianjyo).
    This document is an order from Tokyo to the local commanding officer to consider the situation of comfort women because some pimps might kidnap or cheat women to gather.

  15. camphortree Says:

    Mr. Gerry Bevers
    P for 朝鮮-P does not stand for prostitution in English. 朝鮮-P’s p is a Chinese pronunciation of a paticular Chinese character that means a lowly woman such as a prostitute. That P-漢字 has many strokes in a very complicated form, and I am sorry I can not present it here because I can not pick a correct one among the 漢字転換 on my mini Mac. Often Chinese P-sound is pronounced as ひ(hi) in Japanese.
    I wish I could be more helpful.

  16. jion999 Says:

    camphortree
    There seems to be two stories about 朝鮮-P’s P.
    One is the first letter of an English word to mean “prostitute.”
    Another one is a Chinese slung to show the meaning of genital organ.
    I am not sure which is correct.

  17. camphortree Says:

    jion999

    Another one is a Chinese slung to show the meaning of genital organ.

    When I read the article on the letter of P for 朝鮮-P I recall what you mentioned was what it said. Thank you very much for reminding me. The article showed a complicated and strange looking Chinese character of P for 朝鮮-P that I had never seen.
    Mr. Bevers I am sorry that I was not very accurate about the meaning of the P for 朝鮮-P.
    jion999 is more correct.

  18. shadkt Says:

    Many have already pointed out the fact that Abe’s comment is nothing new, but his comment appearing in NYT with mistranslation at this particular timing (besides the Comfort women legislation in Congress) might have significance.

    There was a demonstration gathering and march sponsored by Chousen Souren (North Korean Citizens’ Group, so to say) on March 3 in Tokyo Hibiya Park, Japan; reportedly 5000 gathered.

    There was also a symposium scheduled for the 4th sponsored by an anti-Japanese organization 「抗日朝鮮人読書会」. The HP for the organization asks that no Japanese attend, and that the objective was to publicly declare Anti-Japan by (N.)Koreans.

    I don’t know…
    It’s really weird that the Nanjing blitz and the Comfort women blitz and the resident N.Korean blitz are seemingly all coming on about the same time.
    I guess it’s the foreign ministry’s laziness in tackling these problems more openly catching them up at the same time.

  19. empraptor Says:

    Unrelated comment:

    I was reminded of the typical unflattering characterization of Koreans on Occidentalism when I read this article on rise in narcissism among US youth.

    Twenge, the author of “Generation Me: Why Today’s Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable Than Ever Before,” said narcissists tend to lack empathy, react aggressively to criticism and favor self-promotion over helping others.

  20. ponta Says:

    empraptor
    Koreanization of the world?!

  21. empraptor Says:

    Seems narcissism is becoming more prevalent in the US. Seeing as how the description fits some of the more common criticism of Koreans I’ve read on this site, I meant to suggest the same thing is happening in Korea and elsewhere.

  22. ponta Says:

    empraptor
    What is worrying is that in Korea, not only young people, but many Korean intellectuals, the media, educator, the government officials are like that or approve of the attitude.
    I am a big fan of the US. The US is not perfect, but she is an open society, the most severe criticism of her come from within. I think that is making the country stronger.

  23. kteen Says:

    Mr.G dosen’t seem to know the difference between foced sex and bought sex.
    Comfort women were NOT prostitues. If they were, they won’t be holding their heads high right now, demaning apologies from the japanese government(and you know, korea is a place where ego plays a big part)

  24. jion999 Says:

    kteen

    Comfort women were NOT prostitutes. If they were, they won’t be holding their heads high right now, demaning apologies from the japanese government.

    Is this the only reason you believe they were not prostitutes?
    Do you believe there were no prostitutes in Korea before 1945?
    They started demonstration with Japanese leftist groups after 1980. Why there was no protests at all by their families in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s?

  25. jion999 Says:

    Korean newspaper advertisements on the above are the obvious evidences that Korean pimps recruited comfort women for MONEY.
    kteen
    I know that most of Koreans and you can not read Chinese characters.
    But it does not mean that you can neglect such evidences.

    Do you believe they were not prostitutes?
    Why? You like to believe so?
    You may not have an idea to discuss on evidences.

  26. ponta Says:

    kteen said:

    Mr.G dosen’t seem to know the difference between forced sex and bought sex.

    A former comfort women,文玉珠, filed a suit to return the money she earned, engaging in comfort station, and that means she was bought and paid. and still demanded apology.
    http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=525#comment-15170
    Korean prostitutes protest, holding their heads high right now.
    “Prostitutes File Suits Against Government, Brothel Owners”
    ttp://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/8thFW/Howitwasb11d6.html
    he is not taling about a prositute under Japanese rule, he is talking about a prostitute under Korea.
    BTW the link will give you a good picture of
    Korean sex industry and Korea’s attitude toward it.

  27. jion999 Says:

    ponta
    It is a very good link to show the history of Korea sex industry after its independence.
    It is impossible for Korean to hide its history of sex industry.
    Most of young Korean must not know about kisen diplomacy (sex de]iplomacy) of Korea when Korea was poor.
    All of comfort women were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers? There was no prostitute in Korea?
    hahaha
    It may be possible to cheat the lower house of USA one time. But it is impossible to continue to cheat for ever.
    Was it possible for Korean to cheat all of the world that Taekwondo has been developed in Korea for 2000 years?
    It must be shame that your lies are exposed after telling lies.

  28. ponta Says:

    jion999
    Did you like the link?
    I think the author of the web site is a Korean American.
    ttp://kalaniosullivan.com/Photo/Profile.html
    There are some ethnic Korean who are very critical of Korea. I think he is fair.
    And 呉善花,鄭 大均 浅川晃広 are ethnic Koreans.
    They are also critical of anti-japanism in Korea.
    And as you know there are native Korean professors who agree with Japanese perspective on comfort women:there are no evidence the comfort women were kidnapped systematically by Japanese troop.
    So there are self-critical Korean people.
    I think it is just that many Korean people lack accurate knowledge deceived by Korean media, and ecucation ,etc..

    Was it possible for Korean to cheat all of the world that Taekwondo has been developed in Korea for 2000 years?

    I think by Korean you meant many Koreans or some Koreans.
    There were Koreans masters who admitted that the origin was Karate.And maybe there were many Korean who were not concerned about it. So it is not that all the Koreans wanted to cheat the world.

    I think Jkeff is right on this point.
    I also think a quantifier such as many,some, most before a specific nationality is important when talking about the topic.

    I appreciate your comment, but I think your comment would be much more appreciated and become hard to attack if you pay attention to some quantifier.
    (またもやつまらない意見ですがm(_ _)m、また、いつも、鋭い貴重なご意見をありがとうございます。)

  29. tomato Says:

    Looking briefly at English language medias- it seems that the Japanese government are losing on this. This is quite different from responses over the China-Japan row over “historical issues”. One thing is that many from the west have very critical opinions about the Communist regime in China, however, do not really know about Korean ultranationalism and tend to jump conclusions that Japan must be the wrongdoer.

  30. Ken Says:

    Prostitution is traditional biz in Korea and sharing around 5% of the GNP of Korea.
    They seem to have little resistance to the biz.
    The biz is world-wide as follows.
    http://www.gcbulletin.com.au/article/2007/02/15/3309_news.html
    Last summer, a couple of Korean tourists ran short of money to travel around Australia and also did it to continue the tour.
    U.S. gov noticed that illegal Korean immigrants do the biz and have a baby in the U.S. to get green card.
    So, U.S. gov arrested around 10,000 hookers last year.

  31. HanComplex Says:

    Ken, interesting article. What I thought was funny was the ad those Korean prostitutes put up:

    The ad identified the sex workers as a ‘uni party girl, just 18, Japanese, natural 36D, perfect backside’.

    What, no Korean PRIDE?? LOL.
    Then again, when I read about a Korean company using the image of Mt. Fuji in their advertising, not really surprised.

    I’ve long read in the news about Korean prostitutes plying their trade in the US before, but their having-a-baby-to-get-a-green card is new to me. This is usually associated with other minorities, e.g., Hispanics. Is it with their johns? If so, they must be THAT desperate to not return to their homeland.

    It looks like Korean prostitutes in the US are so common that the US gov’t consider them a threat to the visa waiver policy:
    http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200606/200606080030.html

  32. jjok Says:

    As of 7/3/2006, South Korean government had designated 12 comfort woman victims out of 359. I have not found any news following up this.
    How is this going?
    일제 강제동원 피해신고 22만명… 생존자 5만명 불과

  33. hana Says:

    Koran old lady’s statement of CNN and US.House of Representatives have difference of age and how she leave her home.
    CNN: she was 14 when Japanese soldiers took her from her home in 1944 to work as a sex slave in Taiwan.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/03/japan.sexslaves.ap/

    UA.House of Representatives;
    I was 16 years old,my friend,Kim Punsun,and I were ~~~~
    A few days later,Punsun kocked my window early in the morning,and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip toed out of the house after her.
    http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/110/lee021507.htm.

    She told before that she worked as a comfort woman age 16 at Taiwan 3years since 1944.
    When she asked the conflict of her story, she chenged her story on and on.
    She suffered. It is true. But what she said is half true,I think.

  34. hana Says:

    sorry
    address of CNN should be cnn.

  35. kjeff Says:

    I think Jkeff is right on this point.

    Ponta, Thanks…but you spelled my name wrong.
    Jion999, HanComplex, and Ken,
    Please be a little subtle when being racists. Uuuuhh, I called you names…Prove me I’m wrong.
    You know, the ultra-nationalist Koreans have their excuses, like… “My grandfather was tortured.”…”My grandmother was raped.”…”I was brainwshed by President Park.”…
    What are yours?

  36. kjeff Says:

    Ohh…oohh…ohhhh…I got it.

    I didn’t graduate from highschool. The economy neck-deeped in liquidity trap. Couldn’t find a job. Nothing to feel good about.

    So what?

    Ultra-nationalism movement at least gave me something. Racism gave me a purpose, for my otherwise meaningless life.

  37. hls Says:

    Please be a little subtle when being racists. Uuuuhh, I called you names…Prove me I’m wrong.

    kjeff, you forgot to put me in the league of “racists”.

    You know, the ultra-nationalist Koreans have their excuses, like… “My grandfather was tortured.”…”My grandmother was raped.”…”I was brainwshed by President Park.”…
    What are yours?

    You are sidestepping here. They have discussed on the legitimacy of the “forced prostitution” insisited by the Korean women in this thread. Now you are referring to the cases which are not related to the topic. Or do you say that the forced prostitution exsited because the president Park brainwashed your granpa? I bet you will come back to me with dirty words of accusation because you cannot logically rebut me.

  38. ponta Says:

    the ultra-nationalist Koreans have their excuses, like… “My grandfather was tortured.”…”My grandmother was raped.”

    I have never heard of a Korean ultra-nationalist say his/her grandparent was raped.
    I have heard of Korean people who complained the Korean policemen were more harsh than Japanese boss in torture.

    p.s. Sorry about misspelling

  39. Matt Says:

    Koran old lady’s statement of CNN and US.House of Representatives have difference of age and how she leave her home.
    CNN: she was 14 when Japanese soldiers took her from her home in 1944 to work as a sex slave in Taiwan.
    http://edition.CNN.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/03/japan.sexslave.ap/

    UA.House of Representatives;
    I was 16 years old,my friend,Kim Punsun,and I were ~~~~
    A few days later,Punsun kocked my window early in the morning,and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip toed out of the house after her.
    http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/110/lee021507.htm.

    She told before that she worked as a comfort woman age 16 at Taiwan 3years since 1944.
    When she asked the conflict of her story, she chenged her story on and on.
    She suffered. It is true. But what she said is half true,I think.

    Hana, the CNN link does not work.

  40. hana Says:

    Matt san
    Address in the CNN chenge into smoll cnn please. Then it will be work
    Can you chenge that?
    If you can,please do so.

  41. hana Says:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/03/japan.sexslaves.ap/
    is right one. sorry.

  42. Matt Says:

    Thanks Hana. I already found it. Writing about it now.

  43. hana Says:

    Matt san
    I realized that my comment of 40 sounds very rude. I am sorry. I didnt mean that.
    I mean that you would correct the addres in my comment 33 if you can.
    It because of my poor English ability,please forgive me.

  44. kjeff Says:

    You betcha!!!

    You are sidestepping here. They have discussed on the legitimacy of the “forced prostitution” insisited by the Korean women in this thread. Now you are referring to the cases which are not related to the topic. Or do you say that the forced prostitution exsited because the president Park brainwashed your granpa? I bet you will come back to me with dirty words of accusation because you cannot logically rebut me.

    My advice, please read I wrote again… My comments was limited to the posters that I mentioned, responding to their twisted line of thoughts. Yes, racist is a strong word, albeit not dirty one. It’s an observation. I suppose a more appropriate one is ‘stereotypist’, if that’s a word. FYI, I’ve never go around saying Japanese this…or Japanese that…unlike some who seem to freely doing so here to Koreans… And, I called them as they are.
    I’m sorry that you’re offended(I don’t why, unless one of them is your alter-id. Wait, contrast that with “I’m sorry that I offended you”. Hmm…)
    Frankly, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say above, and since I feel that you didn’t ‘get’ what I was trying to say, I can really do a proper rebuttal. Peace!!!

  45. kjeff Says:

    I have never heard of a Korean ultra-nationalist say his/her grandparent was raped.

    Those were not the points. Points were, right or wrong, those Korean racists had those excuses, what are the excuses of the Japanese racists? Please don’t say “truth and justice”, those are not excuses for ‘hate’. And when I say ‘grandparents’, I didn’t actually mean biological; those were terms of endearment for previous generations.

  46. jion999 Says:

    ponta

    I appreciate your comment, but I think your comment would be much more appreciated and become hard to attack if you pay attention to some quantifier.

    I believe this blog is the place to watch the funny behavior of Korean ultra-nationalists, isn’t it? It is a little bit bothering to write “Korean ultra-nationalists” every time.
    You know Chinese and Korean try to explain that some of Japanese ultra-nationalists are wrong, but ordinary Japanese does not have a responsibility. But it sounds very funny for Japanese because there in no such kind big organization of Japanese ultra-nationalists.
    ponta-san’s comment is very balanced, I know. But it is used by kjeff easily to attack other IDs as racists. Many Korean criticize this blog with the word of racism. Is that correct?
    When I write “Korean”, it means Korean ultra-nationalists who try to distort history and continue to criticize Japan.
    If you try to avoid racism perfectly, it would be impossible to analyze the behavior of people by nationality.
    I believe most of members here would understand it.

  47. ponta Says:

    jion999

    When I write “Korean”, it means Korean ultra-nationalists who try to distort history and continue to criticize Japan.

    Yes, that is what I thought.
    Still I don’t want to see some people attack you just because you omitted the words like nationalistic, ultra nationalistic, many, almost all etc.
    So just that. Please be careful.
    (m(_ _)m)

  48. jion999 Says:

    Ponta
    Honestly speaking, kjeff, kteen, and other Korean IDs are NOT Korean ultra-nationalists. They must be ordinary Korean who love their country. Such kind of ordinary Korean insist Japan kidnapped many Korean women and Yoko Kawashima told a lie and Japan invaded Takeshima.
    There are some ethnic Korean who are very critical of Korea, of course. There must be in any nationalities.
    However, there are obvious different tendencies of behavior between nationalities.
    I feel it is meaningless to say “Korean ultra-nationalists” every time.
    It is not true. Public opinion of Korea is not lead by ultra-nationalists but ordinary people.
    It is just an excuse not to be criticized as racist.

  49. kjeff Says:

    It is a little bit bothering to write “Korean ultra-nationalists” every time.

    That’s really the price that you have to pay I suppose. May I suggest abbreviation U-Nt; it’s simple enough.

    But it is used by kjeff easily to attack other IDs as racists.

    I applaud ponta for using quantifiers, and just my personal opinion, why should he lower his standard to equal yours?

    Many Korean criticize this blog with the word of racism. Is that correct?

    “Many”, that wasn’t much of a ‘bother’, was it?

    If you try to avoid racism perfectly, it would be impossible to analyze the behavior of people by nationality.

    I’m sorry, but your argument is baseless. There are 48 millions of Koreans(more if you include expats) I’m not sure if you know nor understand a fraction of them to generalize the whole race.(Frankly, I’m even having trouble understanding one, my wife.)
    Your experience dear sir/madam, I venture to say, is limited, perhaps to the narrow world of the world wide web, I hope your observations accurately reflect that. I want nothing more and demand nothing less.

    I believe most of members here would understand it.

    I hope not.

  50. tomojiro54 Says:

    Jion999

    I have to agree with kjeff.That was what I have explained to you.

    Even if you have interesting and insightfull thing to say, the moment you categorize “Korean”, it sounds very rude and despiseful, even racist.

    You are complaining about the stereotypic views,racist view of some korean against Japan, but you are using the same language.

    That gives an impression that you are no different from them. Is that really what you want to say?

  51. jion999 Says:

    tomojiro54

    Even if you have interesting and insightfull thing to say, the moment you categorize “Korean”, it sounds very rude and despiseful, even racist.

    So you mean I should write “Korean ultra-nationalists” every time?
    Korean American students who criticized Yoko Kawashima as a liar are “Korean ultra-nationalists”?
    Of course no.
    You are using the same rhetoric which Chinese government tries to separate Japanese ultra-nationalists from Japanese ordinary people.

  52. jion999 Says:

    The label of “Korean ultra-nationalists” or “Japanese ultra-nationalists” are very convenient to explain the situation to simple people. But such kind of distinction can not show the real world. WW2 was not started by “Japanese ultra-nationalists” only. Anti-Japan policy of Korea is not lead by “Korean ultra-nationalists” only.
    I know it sounds racism in America, but I know there is some kind of hypocrisy in the country of multi-national society to avoid a civil conflict.
    I say again.
    It is just an excuse not to be criticized as racist.

  53. tomojiro54 Says:

    Okay then try the word “some”. Don’t care about the Chinese government. They are not posting in this site!

    Care about yourself. If the readers thinks that you are a racist, nobody takes your message as a valuable thing.

  54. hls Says:

    Frankly, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say above, and since I feel that you didn’t ‘get’ what I was trying to say, I can really do a proper rebuttal. Peace!!!

    kjeff,

    Thanks for your reply which is not full of emotional adjectives and verbal aggressions. But you are evading my question by saying I was not the subject of your criticism aginst racist remarks. It maybe some debate technique to avoid answering when you do not have a proper answer that you learned from your biz school professor. But I am asking again, do you say that the forced prostitution exsited because the president Park brainwashed your granpa?

  55. jion999 Says:

    tomojiro54
    If I put “some” in front of “Korean”, I would be not a racist.
    wow.
    It must be a miracle word.
    I am saying such kind of excuse is nonsense.

  56. kjeff Says:

    hls,
    No, that wasn’t an evasion technique. I simply didn’t understand what you meant. I still don’t actually.
    I believed I wrote, “I was brainwashed by President Park.” This was in the context of how some Korean ultra-nationalists might explain their rather racist behaviors. Some have argued that Korean ultra-nationalism grew during Park’s regime through his propaganda machine. When I wrote that sentence, it was my way of poking fun some Korean ultra-nationalists who excuse their behaviors as “I don’t know anything better.” I hope this helps. And, you can read my reponse to ponta regarding that “grandpa” part.
    Again, I don’t undestand your questions, and since you misunderstood my comments, I’m not really sure how to proceed.
    To repeat again, my points were, well, my intentions were… I wasn’t having fun at the expense of Japanese ultra-nationalism movement by comparing it to its Korean counterpart.

  57. hana Says:

    jion999さん、はじめまして
    jion999さんが言ってることは、もっともだと思います。
    同時に、日本の文献、日本人が言ってる、というだけで長い間、無視されてきたのも現実です。
    最近、欧米の人の中に、日本の主張にも耳を傾ける人が増えました。しかしまだ少ないと思います。
    このブログは日本の主張を発信できる貴重な場のひとつです。その場でjion999さんは、英語の読者から2CH の透明アポンされたいですか?
    私は、Jion999さんの貴重な意見が、いらぬ先入観をもたれてアポンされるリスクをおかすのは、もったいないと思います。私は英語力が弱くあまり参加できないけれどjion999さんや他の方たちを応援しています。
    どうぞ差別主義者と誤解されぬようコメントして戴けませんか。よろしくおねがいします。

  58. jion999 Says:

    hana
    はい。分かりました。以後、気をつけます。
    ただ、「韓国右翼」「日本右翼」という便利な表現の欺瞞を指摘したかったのです。

  59. kjeff Says:

    If I put “some” in front of “Korean”, I would be not a racist. wow. It must be a miracle word.
    I am saying such kind of excuse is nonsense.

    jion999…jion99…jion999…

    No, putting ‘some’ will not make you a non-racist. It simply give your comment an air of ‘fairness’ so that we’ll pay attention more to its content and not its writer. If you feel that’s hypocrisy, then feel free not to…

  60. kjeff Says:

    hls,

    I wasn’t having fun at the expense of Japanese ultra-nationalism movement by comparing it to its Korean counterpart.

    That should read “I was having fun…” My mistake.

  61. camphortree Says:

    jion999

    If I put “some” in front of “Korean”, I would be not a racist.
    wow.
    It must be a miracle word.
    I am saying such kind of excuse is nonsense.

    御存知でしょう、次の諺を。
    外交は言葉による戦争。戦争は武力による外交。
    Jion999さんが言葉によって「勝利」しようと思えば、「敵」に無用な隙を見せてはならないのです。jionさんを剣士に例えれば、正面一直線、サイドは隙だらけなのです。相手が、どこで足を引っ張ろうとしているか、今後とも研鑽を積まれ、良き言葉の剣士に成長なさって下さい。汝の敵を知れ。Go、jion999! 老婆心より。

  62. jion999 Says:

    camphortree
    貴重なご忠告ありがとうございます。
    だが、隙以前の問題として、「反日しているのは、一部の韓国ウルトラ・ナショナリスト」だとする表現は、人種差別非難を回避する格好の発想ですが、嘘なのです。反日しているのは、通常の一般韓国人なのです。嘘をベースに議論をしても、不自然な結論になるだけなのです。日本を右傾化させているのは、日本の右翼団体という、中国、韓国の発想も、嘘なのです。韓国の状況、発想を非難する度に、「韓国ウルトラ・ナショナリスト」と表現することは、極めて違和感があります。この発想は、現実を的確に表現していないのです。この世の事実は、人間を単純に区別するだけで解決しないのです。

  63. jion999 Says:

    結局、民族差別は絶対悪なので、その代わりに、「ウルトラ・ナショナリスト」が絶対悪だという新たな区分方法を発明して、非難しているだけなのです。誰だって、祖国を愛していても、自分が「ウルトラ・ナショナリスト」だと認める人はいません。だから、結局、「ウルトラ・ナショナリスト」非難とは、存在しない架空の極悪人を、非難しているだけなのです。

  64. tomojiro54 Says:

    jion999さん

    英語の議論で一番嫌われるのは、相手を決め付けることです。「だから日本人は」「だから韓国人は」「男は」「女は」といった決め付けをした瞬間に「民族・人種差別主義者」、「性差別主義者」と嫌われます。jion999さんがこれに賛成するかしないかは別として、これが現実です。一つにはこういった発言が飛び出すと、それを読んで同じような言葉遣いで反論してブログが荒れるので、ブログの管理者は日本に比べてかなり神経質です。そうでないとあそこでは「差別的」発言が許されているとの評判が立って、ブログの品位が落ちるからです。何人もそれで追放されましたよ。英語で議論するということはある意味「外国」のテリトリーに入るこですから、おかしいと思っても「郷に入れば郷に従え」でぐっとがまんして議論するようにお互いしましょう。

  65. camphortree Says:

    jion999
    あなたの意見はズバリ核心をついています。あなたの曇りの無い目、そして深い洞察力と表現力に敬意を表します。それでも、あなたは、Mattと言う希有なgood samaritanの道場を借りて、世界を相手に、果たし合いを挑んでいられるのです。御自分の道場ではありませんね。例えば、あなたとNew York Times、Norimitu Onishiが真剣勝負をしたら、多くの日本人の目には、あなたの正直一刀流が断然勝利した様にしか見えなくても、欧米の観客には、大西哲光spin流の方が簡単に勝利したと見えるでしょう。あなたとNorimitu Onishiの試合の観客は、世界なのです。私は、あなたに勝利して欲しい。誰の目から見ても。

  66. jion999 Says:

    tomojiro54

    「郷に入れば郷に従え」

    まぁ、仕方が無いことですね。(笑)
    アメリカのような複合民族社会が、この問題に神経質なことは理解しています。その結果、不可思議な欺瞞が蔓延しているようにも思いますが、まぁ、やはり、仕方ないでしょうね。

  67. jion999 Says:

    OK. That is enough.
    Let’s go back to English.

  68. tomojiro54 Says:

    Thanks jion999.
    Waiting for your next post!!

  69. hls Says:

    Again, I don’t undestand your questions, and since you misunderstood my comments, I’m not really sure how to proceed.

    kjeff,
    Simple, we can just come back to Gerry’s initial post, or to the latest post regarding the discrepancies in the statements given by the former wartime prostitute. I am logging off for now, but I will surely catch you later.

  70. HanComplex Says:

    If I put “some” in front of “Korean”, I would be not a racist. wow. It must be a miracle word.
    I am saying such kind of excuse is nonsense.

    jion999 and others, I don’t know why you even bother replying to this kjeff guy. After reading his replies to Matt, ponta, mika, and others on this blog, it’s apparent that he can’t even argue logically and clearly. Instead of addressing points directly, he’d nitpick how you phrased your question, bring up something unrelated to the topic at hand while making a side comment like he’s not had coffee yet or he’s dining, and come up with poorly constructed sarcasm as a sort of witty “reply.” Actually, he reminds me of Koreans who can’t debate properly and end up being emotional, hence his continued attempts in using sarcasm to vent his frustration in his inability to use logic in argumentation. What was particularly funny was labeling people racists and then telling them to prove him wrong. His laughable rhetoric and polemics aside, he’s amusing in his own way. Next thing you know he’ll say he’s having connubial relations with his wife so he’ll get back to you later before saying “Peace!” Quite a character, I tell ya.

    こういう人は自分に迷ってると思います。考え方もバラバラだし論理も間違いしそれで僕は黙殺してます。こんな男と討論するのは無駄でしょう。勿体無い時間でしょう。

  71. natto Says:

    みなさんこんにちは。
    もう話はついているようですが、ひとこと言わせて下さい。
    「みなさん、日本人としての一番の目的を忘れずに頑張ってください!」
    私達の本当の相手は韓国(中国)人ではなくて、世界なんだと思います。世界の人に日本人と韓国(中国)人の違いをはっきりと認識してもらい、私達の話を聞いてもらい、そして彼らを納得させることが出来なければここでの皆さんの努力も何の意味も無くなってしまいます。そのためにはどんな状況でも論理的かつ、差別、偏見、ステレオタイプ無しで議論していただきたいです。私のように議論に参加したくても英語力又は知識不足で参加できずにいる日本人が沢山いると思います。皆さんはそんな私達にとって日本代表なんだということを忘れないで下さい。陰ながら応援しています!

    Matt-san, Gerry-san, sorry for posting this in japanese and thank you so much for providing this blog to bring out half-truth of korean claims toward japan and put out japanese side of claims to the world.

  72. jion999 Says:

    natto
    I’ve gotten it.
    HanComplex
    私は、kjeffを無視しています。話をしても無駄でしょう。(笑)

  73. kjeff Says:

    After reading his replies to Matt, ponta, mika, and others on this blog, it’s apparent that he can’t even argue logically and clearly. Instead of addressing points directly, he’d nitpick how you phrased your question, bring up something unrelated to the topic at hand while making a side comment like he’s not had coffee yet or he’s dining, and come up with poorly constructed sarcasm as a sort of witty “reply.”

    I guess I’m sort of flattered that you’d been reading my comments.

    Actually, he reminds me of Koreans who can’t debate properly and end up being emotional, hence his continued attempts in using sarcasm to vent his frustration in his inability to use logic in argumentation. What was particularly funny was labeling people racists and then telling them to prove him wrong. His laughable rhetoric and polemics aside, he’s amusing in his own way. Next thing you know he’ll say he’s having connubial relations with his wife so he’ll get back to you later before saying “Peace!” Quite a character, I tell ya.

    Now, who’s being emotional? ㅋㅋㅋ…

    こういう人は自分に迷ってると思います。考え方もバラバラだし論理も間違いしそれで僕は黙殺してます。こんな男と討論するのは無駄でしょう。勿体無い時間でしょう。

    私は、kjeffを無視しています。話をしても無駄でしょう。(笑)

    HanComplex and jion999,
    I don’t how it is in Japan, but from where I come from, talking about someone behind his back is considered rude.

  74. MarkA Says:

    Translate these ads into Russian and Tagalog and run them in newspapers in Khabarovsk and Manila.

    Wait…nevermind. The Coreans already did that.

  75. kteen Says:

    kjeff

    ‘…from where I come from, talking about someone behind his back is considered rude…’

    The guys here must have skipped kindergarten.

  76. Ken Says:

    kjeff,

    I am just reporting facts as follows.
    http://www.aegis.com/news/afp/2002/AF020621.html
    Pressing down fact-tellers with labeling as nationalist or so is the very fascism.
    Playing the role of balancer who handle them as same with no-evidence-history fabricators is also hypocratic.

  77. ponta Says:

    The point is Kjeff is ultranationalist if he acts like an ultranatiolist. The typical Korean ultranationalist just blames (for fun?) Japan while turning an blind eye on the faults of Korean society.
    Kjeff hasn’t made any statement about the injustice about Korean comfort women in Korea after independence unlike this blogger despite the fact I repeatedly asked his opinion about it.

  78. Congress backstabs US ally; Times lie trashes Abe « AMPONTAN Says:

    […] Occidentalism’s Gerry Bevers has produced two advertisements from Korean newspapers in 1944 soliciting comfort women—the precise phrase used in Japanese. The ad on the left was placed in the Gyeongseong Ilbo on July 16, 1944 and offered women between seventeen and twenty-three years old 300 yen per month to work as “comfort women.” It also offered an advance payment of 3,000 yen. The ad on the right was placed in the Maeil Shinmun on October 27, 1944 and also offered 300 yen per month for “healthy” women between eighteen and thirty. […]

  79. ponta Says:

    kteen said:

    kjeff

    ‘…from where I come from, talking about someone behind his back is considered rude…’

    The guys here must have skipped kindergarten.

    Do you mean you skipped kindergarden? You often wrote in Korean.

  80. kjeff Says:

    Do you mean you skipped kindergarden? You often wrote in Korean.

    Ponta,
    In kteen’s defense, jion999 and HanComplex were talking about me in Japanese. I believe (although I didn’t read all kteen’s comments) that when kteen wrote in korean, he was not having conversation about a third person knowing that he/she will not understand the said conversation.

  81. kjeff Says:

    Kjeff hasn’t made any statement about the injustice about Korean comfort women in Korea after independence unlike this blogger despite the fact I repeatedly asked his opinion about it.

    To be perfectly clear, your question, without any specific purposes, is irrelevant and inflammatory. In his essay, Mr. Hurt examined the hypocrisy of the Korean government and how the issue has been too politicised. Although I don’t agree with arguments point-by-point, I understand his concerns What are yours?
    Are these(below) the kind of responses that you were expecting? The blame-the-victims kind.

    Last summer, a couple of Korean tourists ran short of money to travel around Australia and also did it to continue the tour. U.S. gov noticed that illegal Korean immigrants do the biz and have a baby in the U.S. to get green card. So, U.S. gov arrested around 10,000 hookers last year.

    I’ve long read in the news about Korean prostitutes plying their trade in the US before, but their having-a-baby-to-get-a-green card is new to me. This is usually associated with other minorities, e.g., Hispanics. Is it with their johns? If so, they must be THAT desperate to not return to their homeland.

    BTW jion999,
    I don’t know if I mentioned this to you before(#25), please think before you commit anything to writing. First, most high-school graduate Koreans can read Chinese characters. Second, you didn’t choose to learn Chinese characters, you have to. On the other hand, we don’t have to know what essentialy is a foreign language to understand ours. Where’s your pride? Think, man, think!

  82. kjeff Says:

    Gerry,

    The newspaper ads suggest that, at least in Korea, the recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable.

    I stumbled upon this thread because ponta was referring to me in his comment. I didn’t actually read your post until now. I’m definitely missing some background info here. These two newspapers, what were their circulation number? Where were they published? I meant cities. Where were these ads in those newspapers? First page? Second? How big? Bottom right corner? How long? Just that day? Daily? For how long? They were obvously written in chinese characters, so what the percentage of Koreans at that time actually understand hanja? What percentage are women? How many actually responded to the ads? Who placed the ads? And why?
    .
    ...open, legitimate, and socially acceptable.
    Hmmm…

  83. Matt Says:

    I don’t know if I mentioned this to you before(#25), please think before you commit anything to writing. First, most high-school graduate Koreans can read Chinese characters. Second, you didn’t choose to learn Chinese characters, you have to. On the other hand, we don’t have to know what essentialy is a foreign language to understand ours. Where’s your pride? Think, man, think!

    kjeff, I have to disagree. Most Korean high school graduates can read up to maybe 20-50 characters, but it is not enough to read a regular newspaper with hanja characters in it. You need close to about 2000 for that.

  84. Matt Says:

    Who placed the ads? And why?

    Mr 허 placed the ad. Cant you read Chinese characters? LOL.

  85. ponta Says:

    kjeff

    In kteen’s defense, jion999 and HanComplex were talking about me in Japanese

    I don’t know what Kteen was talking about, but wasn’t it something such as “people here are bigot!!”in Korean? What is the difference?

    To be perfectly clear, your question, without any specific purposes, is irrelevant and inflammatory

    My question would be irrelevant if you are a Korean ultra nationalist because he tends to ignore injustice about Korean society. It is relevant if we are talking about man’s exploitation of women,(I made it clear to you) and comfort women under
    Japanese rule and Korea regime are the examples.

    Are these(below) the kind of responses that you were expecting? T

    As I said, I was expecting you to react in the same manner toward the exploitation comfort women under Japanese rule and Korea regime. For some reason, you have prejudice toward the one against the other, and I think
    it is obvious to everyone, just considering the difference in the amount you wrote about the two.
    Thank you.

  86. kjeff Says:

    Matt,

    jeff, I have to disagree. Most Korean high school graduates can read up to maybe 20-50 characters, but it is not enough to read a regular newspaper with hanja characters in it. You need close to about 2000 for that.

    I have to disagree. First, my nephew who is in second grade lementary school probably knows more than the number that you suggested. I visited him last summer, and he showed me his hanja test paper. There were at least 20 questions there, so do the math. Second, about 2000 is not the right number either. You need about 1000 to understand roughly 90% what you read. That’s not my opinion. It’s a study done by a Chinese phd student(can’t remember the name) in Columbia University.
    .
    Oh…oh..oh…yes, I can’t read Chinese characters.(I’m laughing with you) I wasn’t raised in Korea. No, I wasn’t raised in the U.S. either, for those who might be tempted to comment on my English. And, Mr 허 who? I suppose his fame eluded me since I’m not familiar with that single-syllable-last-name name.

  87. kjeff Says:

    As I said, I was expecting you to react in the same manner toward the exploitation comfort women under Japanese rule and Korea regime. For some reason, you have prejudice toward the one against the other, and I think
    it is obvious to everyone, just considering the difference in the amount you wrote about the two.

    ponta,
    I’d like to believe, and I applaud if it’s so, that your concern the injustice toward Korean women after the war is as it is. I hope it’s not an avenue to justify the injustice during occupation in the manner of “You can’t blame me, you did it too.”
    Having said that any Korean prostitutes(except those in very extreme situations)can walk into any police station and demand protection. Yes, you may have to go to jail. Prostitution and/or not paying your debt are still illegal. (Of course, I can’t really comment on how realistis this was in Park’s regime) Point is you have a choice, albeit for some, it’s adifficult one. If you choose so, there are numerous charitable/religious organisations that are willing to help. Can you say the same of those comfort women during the occupation?
    And yes, “I’m prejudiced toward one against the other” because they are different and irrelevant to one another. Unless of course you can prove that the injustice is unique to Korea, i.e. there’s no other prostitutes but Korean prostitutes in this world.

  88. Matt Says:

    I have to disagree. First, my nephew who is in second grade lementary school probably knows more than the number that you suggested. I visited him last summer, and he showed me his hanja test paper. There were at least 20 questions there, so do the math.

    I stand by what I wrote. It comes from knowing a LOT of Koreans.

    Second, about 2000 is not the right number either. You need about 1000 to understand roughly 90% what you read. That’s not my opinion. It’s a study done by a Chinese phd student(can’t remember the name) in Columbia University.

    Chinese student? We are talking about Korean, not Chinese. The Korean government identifies 1800 hanja as basic use hanja. Generally only people in professional occupations, like lawyers or doctors, are able to read this many hanja.

    Oh…oh..oh…yes, I can’t read Chinese characters.(I’m laughing with you) I wasn’t raised in Korea. No, I wasn’t raised in the U.S. either, for those who might be tempted to comment on my English. And, Mr 허 who? I suppose his fame eluded me since I’m not familiar with that single-syllable-last-name name.

    허 is a Korean name, whether you are familiar with it or not. Here is its origins.

  89. ponta Says:

    Kjeff

    ponta,
    I’d like to believe, and I applaud if it’s so, that your concern the injustice toward Korean women after the war is as it is. I hope it’s not an avenue to justify the injustice during occupation in the manner of “You can’t blame me, you did it too.”

    Having said that any Korean prostitutes(except those in very extreme situations)can walk into any police station and demand protection. Yes, you may have to go to jail. Prostitution and/or not paying your debt are still illegal. (Of course, I can’t really comment on how realistis this was in Park’s regime) Point is you have a choice, albeit for some, it’s adifficult one. If you choose so, there are numerous charitable/religious organisations that are willing to help. Can you say the same of those comfort women during the occupation?

    Now it is clearer that you look similar to a Korean ultra-nationalist, blaming Japan while turning a blind eye on injustice of Korean society and it is somehow surprising.
    I disagree that comfort women under Japan and
    those under Korean regime is that different.
    I showed you the situation under Korean regime.
    Until 80’s, it is said that it often happened
    that women are kidnapped into brothels.
    And others who were not kidnapped had little choice because of the poverty. Once contract was made, there is in substance no legal protect.
    And yet now word of blaming Korean society, but only apologetic words…..Sorry I have to say, you are an ultranationalist.
    Even Japanese PM admits Japan has done wrong. No body is saying it was just because Korean comfort women’s situation was horrible
    under Korean regime. You are still trying to
    blame others while being apologist for Korean
    society. Sorry, but I must say, Shame on you

  90. kjeff Says:

    “I stand by what I wrote. It comes from knowing a LOT of Koreans.”

    Matt, I know a LOT of Koreans(in the U.S.) who don’t speak Korean, it doesn’t say much, does it? As far as I know, hanja is in the Korean curriculum from 1st grade elementary(well, officially 7th grade) to 12th grade in high-school. If you’re suggesting that they learn less than 5 characters a year, then I don’t realy have anything to say, do I?

    Chinese student? We are talking about Korean, not Chinese.

    Please read what you had written and what I wrote again. You were suggesting that you need close to 2000 Chinese characters to understand text written in Chinese characters. I disagreed. The Ph.D student I was referring to, who later became Commisioner of Education in Shanghai, examined close to 1 millions Chinese characters in various books and periodicals. His findings suggest that a knowledge of 1000 most frequently used Chinese characters give you roughly 90% understanding of texts written in Chinese characters. See that I keep repeating ‘Chinese characters’, my understanding is it doesn’t matter whether it’s actually hanzi, hanja, or kanji, they are all Chinese characters(with few variations), no?. So “Chinese student?”, WHAT?

    The Korean government identifies 1800 hanja as basic use hanja. Generally only people in professional occupations, like lawyers or doctors, are able to read this many hanja.

    Again I have to disagreed. Yes, the government identifies 1800 basic hanja, 900 to be taught in junior high(although elementary schools teach some of those), and 900 to be taught in highschool. Granted, not all of graduates know all 1800(that’s 100 less than kanji, no?) of them, but 20-50 is borderline…
    Even if you’re a ‘G’ student, you should at least know a couple of hundreds, no?
    And obviously NO, if you’re lawyers or doctors(especially if you’re Eastern Medicine doctors), 1800 is also borderline…

    허 is a Korean name, whether you are familiar with it or not.

    So is Kim and Lee, and I still don’t know who your Mr.허 is. Sorry, for some reason, can’t open the link you provided.

    P.S.’…’ should read ‘insulting’ for lack of a better word.

  91. kjeff Says:

    Now it is clearer that you look similar to a Korean ultra-nationalist, blaming Japan while turning a blind eye on injustice of Korean society and it is somehow surprising.

    ponta,

    I’m not turning a blind eye, but again those are two separate issues. Two crimes committed by two different perpetrators to two different victims if you will. They bear almost no connection, except that both victims happen to be women.

    Until 80’s, it is said that it often happened that women are kidnapped into brothels. And others who were not kidnapped had little choice because of the poverty. Once contract was made, there is in substance no legal protect.

    As I said I have little knowledge on prostitutes'(forced or not) condition during Park’s regime. Although I can’t fanthom any legal “contract” that provides protection for rapist.

    You are still trying to
    blame others while being apologist for Korean
    society

    ponta, even if I agree to the substance of your observations that women suffered similar conditions during both Japan’s occupation and Korean regimes(I’ll limit this to the 80’s), so what? What are trying to say? What’s your point? I understand Mr. Hurt’s points in the link that you provided(I stated them in my previous comment), but I still don’t understand yours? Was it “You can’t blame me; you did it too.”?
    If not, can you please explain?

    And, I don’t believe I’ve ever directly blamed Japan, not in this thread I think(but, I’m too lazy to confirm). I have questioned the relationship between colonial subjects and their ‘masters’, what legal protections they had. And, I have questioned the ‘sincerity’ of the observations/arguments by some of the posters above. So, I’m affraid I can’t accept your compliment.

  92. jion999 Says:

    It is very funny that a Korean who can’t read Chinese characters insists Korean students can read Chinese characters.
    The point is whether young Korean can read the above ad or not.
    I mean because they can not read the historical evidence, they do not try to believe it.
    There were ads of Korean pimps to recruit women to work as military prostitutes for money.
    But all of old comfort women insist that they were kidnapped by Japanese.
    If there is an honest Korean woman who confesses that she worked for money, I like to know how Korean society treats with her.

  93. kjeff Says:

    jion999,

    It is very funny that a Korean who can’t read Chinese characters insists Korean students can read Chinese characters.

    Funny how? Your observation is “funny”. Again please, think first, then write. Do NOT think after you clicked the submit button; it’s too late.

    The point is whether young Korean can read the above ad or not.
    I mean because they can not read the historical evidence, they do not try to believe it.

    Well, granted that majority those Chinese characters are not the extra 100 kanji Japanese learn, if you can, they can. “Historical evidence”? Of what? Please read my questions to Gerry.

    But all of old comfort women insist that they were kidnapped by Japanese.
    If there is an honest Korean woman who confesses that she worked for money…

    Aaahh, If you like what they say, they’re “honest”, if not, they’re dishonest. That’s not what you meant, then choose your word carefully.

  94. ponta Says:

    Kjeff

    As I said I have little knowledge on prostitutes’(forced or not) condition during Park’s regime.

    So you have little knowledge of comfort women under Japanese rule and under Korean regime,
    and yet you blame Japan but not Korea.

    (I’ll limit this to the 80’s),

    comfort station was in Korea after independence around American town, and Korean scholar claim it was there during Korean War, and in Vietnam during Vietnam war.

    so what?

    Wow, so what were you blaming Japan for?
    It is inconsistent you blame one but not another based on your the same little knowledge of the both, and it is ultra nationalistic and hypocritical that you blame Japan but not Korea. That is what I am saying.

  95. kjeff Says:

    ponta,
    I’ve answered your questions, I think it’s only polite that you answer mine. Please read what I wrote again. I was neither blaming Japanese nor defending Korean. I was merely examining your observations and arguments. And realy, you’re repeating the same observation again and again, so I guess “So what?” is in order.

  96. jion999 Says:

    The biggest mystery of Korean history is there was no big riot against Japanese rule in Korea during that war. They insist 200,000 Korean women were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers. But there was no riot at all!
    What did their families do after losing their daughters? Nothing?
    Even after the independence, there was no protests movement regarding comfort women in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
    After Japanese leftist group tried to search for ex-comfort women in 1980s, Korean started to be interested in this controversy.
    why?

  97. kjeff Says:

    jion999,

    They insist 200,000 Korean women were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers. But there was no riot at all!

    If you ever in the U.S., please bring cutlery, farming equipments, and 100 of your friends to my house(I’ll be alone, promise), let see how you and your friends match up with my machine guns.

    Even after the independence, there was no protests movement regarding comfort women in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
    After Japanese leftist group tried to search for ex-comfort women in 1980s, Korean started to be interested in this controversy.
    why?

    It’s the economy, stupid!

  98. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    You can not reply logically, can you?

    let see how you and your friends match up with my machine guns.

    In 1980, Korean students in Gwangju were so brave against Korean soldiers with modern weapons.
    Even after so many students were killed, they continued riots against military government.
    That is the reason why Korean got democracy.
    Isn’t it correct?
    Even if 200,000 women were kidnapped, Korean men were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight.
    Is that correct?
    Korean in 1940s was coward?
    If it is true, it must be shame for Korean men.

  99. GarlicBreath Says:

    Kjeff, if somebody broke down my door and grabbed my sister or daughter to be raped, and did the same with 200,000 of my neighbors, you better believe I would take some farming equipment or kitchen knives and hack to death one of the kidnappers/rapists. However, this is not what happened in Korea, so quit making excuses. In many cases in Korea the fathers happily sold their daughters to the local Korean chief. Women who were unmarried were not worth more then bags of rice to Koreans in those days. In other cases, the family pressured the daughter to sell herself for the sake of the family. This Korean practice went on for decades after WWII.

    kjeff, you are very disingenuous in your argument.

  100. kjeff Says:

    jion999 and GarlicBreadth,
    Let me see how things worked in 1944:
    I went to daum.net and saw the headline, “200,000 Korean Women Kidnapped”. No, that can’t be right… No, it was my cousin in Pusan, he called me up and said that his daughter and her friends have been kidnapped. No, that can’t be right either. No…no…no…I read those in Japanese-censored newspapers…

  101. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    Is this your reply?
    hahaha
    I understand you can not reply logically.

  102. jion999 Says:

    If Korean insists 200,000 Korean women were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers and broadcast this story to the world, it means that Korean men were coward, who were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight at all.
    Do you like this story?

  103. kjeff Says:

    jion999,
    I’m starting to doubt your definition of ‘logic’. BTW, by your same logic, would you say the same to millions of Jews during WWII? Think before you write, please…

    …did not try to fight at all.

    huh?

  104. jion999 Says:

    kjeff started to change the topic again.
    hahahaha
    Answer to my question.

    Even if 200,000 women were kidnapped, Korean men were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight.
    Is that correct?
    Korean in 1940s was coward?

  105. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    Korean men in 1980 were brave to fight against Korean soldiers.
    How about Korean men in 1940s.
    Do you like to insult your ancestor?

  106. jion999 Says:

    Jews were just one of the minorities in Germany.
    In Korean peninsula, so many Korean were governed by small number of Japanese.
    The situation of Korean and Jews were so different.
    Even if 200,000 women were kidnapped and raped, Korean men were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight.
    There is no record of riot or conflict or protest by Korean during the war!!
    Wow, it is a shame for Korean men.

  107. GarlicBreath Says:

    Yes jion999 some Koreans sold their daughters to Korean middlemen. My guess is that those women would have chosen an alternative occupation if not for their families. This is the true tragedy that should be discussed. Some women were willing prostitutes so their families could have more. If Kjeff, was alive back then, its not hard to imagine that he and his parents would be pressuring his sister to sell herself so the family could have more money.

  108. ponta Says:

    Kjeff

    I’ve answered your questions, I think it’s only polite that you answer mine. Please read what I wrote again. I was neither blaming Japanese nor defending Korean

    Really? You compared Japan with rapist, didn’t you, and don’t you blame rapist?
    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=525#comment-15279

    You might have not defended Korean comfort station under Korea regime; You ignored just
    as Korean ultranationalist have been ignoring.

    Don’t try to be aplogetic. Face it.

    so what? What are trying to say? What’s your point? I understand Mr. Hurt’s points in the link that you provided(I stated them in my previous comment),

    Is this your question?
    So you are an ultra nationlist or ultra natiolalistic, because you blame Japan while ignoring the same issue if that happened by Koreans.

    but I still don’t understand yours? Was it “You can’t blame me; you did it too.”?

    It was not .
    Japan faced the fact and apologized and set up funds.
    but in a way don’t blame Japan, because she has done her due, and what is the reason for the endless demand for apology ?
    On the other hand, Korea has had the same problem on her own ,but Korea has avoided the fact, and you have been
    avoiding facing the fact.Korea has never apologized and never set up the fund.
    That is the problem.

  109. GarlicBreath Says:

    Where were all the prostitution-“concentration camps” kjeff? Where were they? How many were murdered? Where? Come on Kjeff. That is all false.

    would you say the same to millions of Jews during WWII?

  110. jion999 Says:

    GarlicBreath
    After world depression of 1929, Japanese economy was collapsed and so many Japanese farmers sold their daughters.
    It is tragedy but it is truth.
    It is also true that Korean farmers were very poor and sold their daughters.
    The old comfort women insist they were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers.
    But why Japanese have to kidnap women in those days when so many framers sold their daughters?
    It is a lie.
    If such old women confess they worked as comfort women for money, they would be criticized as “chinirupa” (traitor) by ordinary Korean.
    In Korea , any kind of lie is acceptable if they criticize Japan.

  111. GarlicBreath Says:

    That is very sad about Japan. Koreans live in denial about their sordid history. I guess Koreans find it better to blame Japan for everything, then admit the truth.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

    http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200602/kt2006020221164954130.htm

  112. kjeff Says:

    ponta,

    Really? You compared Japan with rapist, didn’t you, and don’t you blame rapist?
    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=525#comment-15279

    Please read carefully, I was comparing your reasonings with similar arguments a lawyer defending a rapist might have. It was your arguments, not Japan, that I was comparing to.

    So you are an ultra nationlist or ultra natiolalistic, because you blame Japan while ignoring the same issue if that happened by Koreans.

    I’ve asked this before, and I’ll ask it again. Let’s say, OK, they were not different, and I felt bad for the Korean ‘comfort women’ under Korea regime, so what? What’s the connection?

    It was not .

    Then what? You’re still not answering my question.

    Japan faced the fact and apologized and set up funds.
    but in a way don’t blame Japan, because she has done her due, and what is the reason for the endless demand for apology ?

    Please enlighthen me with that ‘fact’. I’ve never asked for an apology, although I did write, or did I?, that your apology comes with expiration date, i.e. until one needs to satisfy one’s political base. And, I have to say that Japanese government, aside from the U.S. is probably the most generous donor of foreign aids, why set up ‘private’ fund? They could have assigned a fraction of those generous aids, “Comfort Women Reparations”, and we’d call it a day, no?

  113. opp Says:

    This image data seem to delete from English page.

  114. kjeff Says:

    jion999,
    Let me be the first to congratulate you. You’ve said it; those old women are liars.
    BTW, your 104,105, and 106 comments, they were just too idiotic to reply. Please think…
    .
    And, GarlicBreath,

    Where were all the prostitution-”concentration camps” kjeff? Where were they? How many were murdered? Where? Come on Kjeff. That is all false.

    Please learn to read in context.

  115. jion999 Says:

    kjeff

    your 104,105, and 106 comments, they were just too idiotic to reply. Please think…

    If you can not answer my questions, you do not have to reply.
    The readers would understand you are an idiot.(笑)

  116. jion999 Says:

    Oh sorry. kjeff can not read Chinese character, can he?
    I will revise…..

    The readers would understand you are an idiot.(조소)

  117. ponta Says:

    Please read carefully, I was comparing your reasonings with similar arguments a lawyer defending a rapist might have. It was your arguments, not Japan, that I was comparing to.

    And my argument you allege is that Japan defend itself, saying comfort women asked for it.
    But

    “She’s a slut; she asked for it.”
    ” Like when somebody is accused of rape, his scumbag lawyer sometimes would argue, “She’s a slut; she asked for it.

    The structure is that the accused defend back saying she asked for it.
    Obviously you are comparing Japan with the accused, and coupled with the word,”rapist, it is obvious there was implication of the blame.
    Therefore, you blame Japan while ignoring injustice of Korea.

    Let’s say, OK, they were not different, and I felt bad for the Korean ‘comfort women’ under Korea regime, so what?

    So you just felt bad for Korean comfort women under Japanese rule. Is that all?
    or
    In case of Japan, you say, Japan, is the accused, comparable to a rapist,
    In case of Korea, you just feel bad for Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society?
    Is that it?
    And let me ask you what do you expect Korean people to do about Korean comfort women under
    Korean regime?
    Do you think Korean president should apologize and set up funds? Do you think Koran people should act toward pressuring the US congress to make Korean president formally apologize (endlessly….at least as many as Japan had done)?
    Or Korean rant about Japanese government attitude is excessive?
    Please do not ignore this question, because it is important to see whether you are just an ultranationalist or a fair Korean.

  118. GarlicBreath Says:

    kjeff: Please learn to read in context.

    Interesting thing to say Kjeff. You seem to ignore the historical context of the era, and act as if today is universal standard. Fact is that Koreans didn’t value women much in those days, and gladly sold their daughters, or pressured them into selling themselves.

  119. HanComplex Says:

    The KoreaTimes has a recent article on prostitution in Korea. It seems that despite a government crackdown on the trade, demand is way too strong.

    Since the passing of a strengthened anti-prostitution law in 2004 _ which officially ended the country’s traditional tolerance of sex buyers _ the number of red light districts has gone south.

    However, it is becoming apparent that shutting down brothels isn’t enough, with the still-strong demand for commercial sex spawning a massive underground industry of massage parlors, girlie bars, hotels and Internet sites that provide easier access to sex for sale.

    Last week, police in southern Seoul arrested the two owners of three massage parlors in Nonhyun-dong and Yoksam-dong for hiring prostitutes. They booked another 170 people, including 120 people who bought sex from the shops more than 10 times.

    The customer list of the three massage parlors extends to over 200,000 people, police said, with each shop roughly averaging 2,000 to 5,000 customers per month.

    “The customer list included lawyers, doctors, university professors, journalists, civil servants, soldiers, office workers and a former lawmaker. We can find virtually every profession aside from pastors, priests and monks,’’ said an official from the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency.

    Sex Clubs Thrive Despite Clampdown

  120. kjeff Says:

    So you just felt bad for Korean comfort women under Japanese rule. Is that all?
    or
    In case of Japan, you say, Japan, is the accused, comparable to a rapist,
    In case of Korea, you just feel bad for Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society?
    Is that it?
    And let me ask you what do you expect Korean people to do about Korean comfort women under
    Korean regime?
    Do you think Korean president should apologize and set up funds? Do you think Koran people should act toward pressuring the US congress to make Korean president formally apologize (endlessly….at least as many as Japan had done)?
    Or Korean rant about Japanese government attitude is excessive?

    ponta,

    If there were victims/complainants and/or evidence that suggest systematic efforts, deliberate or otherwise, by the Korean governments to coerce(both Abe’s definitions of “narrow” and “broad”) women, my attitude toward them would be the same to its Japanese counterpart. And yes, I would call them rapists. Should the current government apologize? Yes, if the acts were carried out at the behest and/or to the benefit of the government, and not individuals abusing their power. Yes, the government should compensate such victims. And, no, I don’t think the U.S. conggress should get involve; it’s internal problem. For the record, it’s the same with regard to Japan; it’s bilateral. Did I miss any questions?
    Still, what is the connection ponta? As I said before, two different victims and two different perpetrators. What’s your objective in linking the two?
    With your indulgence, please read HanComplex’ #119 comment. What do you think he’s trying accomplish? Do you think he really ‘cares’ about the prostitution problems in Korea?

  121. ponta Says:

    kjeff

    Still, what is the connection ponta?

    it is obvious . as I said, it is the problem of man’s exploitation of women, or have
    vs women. but for the strong tendency of Korean
    nationalism most Korean people will make it Japan vs Korea(Asia) problem. I think that makes them look hypocritical.
    The point is not that since you did that too,
    I am not wrong. Japan has admitted that she did wrong, and apologized and set up fund.
    The point is Korea has not admit that she was
    wrong, she ignores it, instead demand endless apology and compensation from Japan. That makes them look hypocritial.

    lease read HanComplex’ #119 comment. What do you think he’s trying accomplish?

    IMO, he is trying to say, it is hypocritical to demand Japan should admit she did injustice to women when Japan has already admitted, in particular when Korea has been doing the same injustice themselves and has not admitted it themselves.

    Do you think he really ‘cares’ about the prostitution problems in Korea?

    I guess, as the name suggest, he cares about Korean han恨 complex.

  122. claire Says:

    Ponta,
    In regards to what you call “Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society”

    Are you saying that the korean military/government systematically recruited/forced or made job openings/paid for the services of prostitution?

    In the instance of military comfort women, it was well organized to serve the Japanese imperial forces and especially because there were some instances of serious misconduct (rape, torture, and kidnappings)japan needs to take responsibility. THe “Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society” is a term I am not aware of (and I hope you are not using this instead of the general word: prostitution). Comfort woman is a term reserved for those who were taken to serve the Japanese military brothels. Hence, I would deeply appreciate it if you do not use it out of context. Thank you.

  123. ponta Says:

    claire

    Are you saying that the korean military/government systematically recruited/forced or made job openings/paid for the services of prostitution?

    I am not sure Korean military “forced” women to be prostitute. Even in case of Japan, there was no such evidence. But a Korean professor found out that Korea was involved in the comfort station during the Korean war in the same sense Japan was involve in the brothel.

    n the instance of military comfort women, it was well organized to serve the Japanese imperial forces and especially because there were some instances of serious misconduct (rape, torture, and kidnappings)japan needs to take responsibility.

    By the same token, Korean needs to take responsibility.

    THe “Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society” is a term I am not aware of

    It is regrettable that Korean society has been ignoring the the fact. That only makes Korean s hypocritical and immature.

    let me repeat.
    War time
    1 Korean government was involved in the brothel system in the same sense Japan was involved during the Korean war.

    peacetime operation
    2 around the American town, korean government prepared the place for brothels, and carried out medical check for prosituites, andand and licenced brothels.
    se therrecruitedeception. The contract bound them to the job, and there was no legal protectoin in substance.
    That is exactly the same system Japan adopted
    uder Japanese rule.
    Thank you.

  124. ponta Says:

    se therrecruitedeception.

    In the process of recruiting, in some case there were kidnapping, in many case, there were
    deceptoins.

  125. claire Says:

    ponta,
    thanks for your speedy response! :)
    Unfortunatly I was unaware, I tried searching for some info but couldn’t find any, could you provide any links/books? Thanks.

  126. HanComplex Says:

    I guess, as the name suggest, he cares about Korean han恨 complex.

    Thank you, ponta. If I or any of the critics on this blog didn’t care at all, we wouldn’t even bother posting on this site. Koreans might not like it, but pointing out their collective inferiority complex and hypocrisy is for their own good, no matter how embarrassing it may be. Since they don’t seem to like self-criticism, others will have to do the job for them. They pretty much brought it upon themselves.

    Just another example of this is from the comments section of the same article:

    kormerican 03-05-2007 19:19
    commericial prostitution began in korea during japanese colonialism and then expanded with American soldiers stationed in korea. There were tens of thousands of US soldiers with dollars. Now it has expanded as the korean economy expanded. President Roh has made a lot of progress in handling this problem.

    To which someone replied:

    hond 03-05-2007 21:06
    You must be joking, kormerican. Korea has a long history of prostitution. Kisaeng, which provides sex and entertaining performance, dates back to the 7th century. Most of them were a kind of slaves and they were bought and sold. More than 20 % of the Korean population belonged to the cast called nobi. They were slaves owned by the state as well as private owners. Japan banned the nobi system in 1894 and all the slaves in Korea were freed.

    JoongAng Daily has a related article. Hat tip to Lost Nomad:

    The other suspect, a Mr. Choi, also ran a similar massage room, called “H,” in Yeoksam-dong starting in 2004. Some nights, when the rooms reached full capacity, the owners would give customers on the waiting list a ticket to get priority rights the next time they came, police said. Mr. Choi’s business has earned a total of 19.8 billion won, police said.
    The police estimated that the three massage rooms had a total of up to 4,800 customers every month.
    The estimates were calculated from the revenue. The police official, however, added, “Customers got a discount for paying cash, so there must have been more customers.”

    Fantasy-themed brothels broken up with arrests

  127. ponta Says:

    clare
    I provided many times links and quote on this blog. .

    I am a little bit getting tired of enllighting Korean people. It is regreatable and shame that Korean society have been ignoring this issue.

    War time operation.

    朝鮮戦争時の韓国軍にも慰安婦制度 韓国の研究者発表
    朝鮮戦争時の韓国軍にも慰安婦制度があったことが23日、立命館大学(京都市北区)で開かれている「東アジアの平和と人権」国際シンポジウム日本大会(朝日新聞社後援)で明らかにされた。

    韓国軍慰安婦について日本で公になったのは初めて。発表した韓国・慶南大客員教授の金貴玉(キム・ギオク)さん(40)=社会学=は「日本軍の慰安婦制度をまねたものではないか」とみている。

     金さんは96年、離散家族のインタビューの中で、「50年10月、韓国軍の捕虜になり、軍慰安隊の女性と出会った」という男性の証言を得た。以後5年間インタビューを重ね、「直接慰安所を利用した」「軍に拉致されて慰安婦にされかかった」という男女8人の証言を聞いた。

     さらに金さんは、韓国の陸軍本部が56年に編さんした公文書『後方戦史(人事編)』に「固定式慰安所-特殊慰安隊」の記述を見つけた。設置目的として「異性に対するあこがれから引き起こされる生理作用による性格の変化等により、抑うつ症及びその他支障を来す事を予防するため」とあり、4カ所、89人の慰安婦が52年だけで20万4560回の慰安を行った、と記す特殊慰安隊実績統計表が付されている。

     証言と併せ、軍隊が直接経営していた慰安所があった、と金さんは結論づけた。

     軍関係者の証言の中には、軍の補給品は第1から第4までしかないのに、「第5種補給品」の受領指令があり、一個中隊に「昼間8時間の制限で6人の慰安婦があてがわれた」とする内容のものもある。

     どんな人が慰安婦になったかは明らかではないが、朝鮮戦争時に娼婦(しょうふ)が急増し、30万人にも及んだことから、金さんは「戦時の強姦(ごうかん)や夫の戦死がきっかけで慰安婦になった民間人も少なくない」と見ている。

     金さんは「設置主体だった陸軍の幹部の多くは日本軍の経験者だった。韓国軍の慰安婦が名乗り出るためには、日本軍慰安婦問題の解決が欠かせない。韓国政府と、当時軍統帥権を握っていた米国の責任も追及したい」と話している。

    Ask professor 金貴玉 at 慶南大

    2 peace time

    government involovment

    “American Town is a camptown developed with the collusion of both the Korean and American governments. Built by a South Korean general and landowner in 1969 during the height of the Park Chung Hee regime

    Thus the South Korean government embarked on an official program during the 1970s that praised the women for earning foreign exchange and boosting the economy
    ttp://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/8thFW/Howitwasb11d6.html#Prostitution
    in the 1970s the Korean government was also engaged in the surveillance and authoritarian control of the prostitutes servicing the US military. At the request of the latter that complained of the unhealthy conditions of the kijich’on sex industry, the Korean government started a clean-up campaign in 1971 that included infrastructural improvements and enforcement of regular medical examinations of prostitutes, detaining infected women at special center
    ttp://www.icasinc.org/2000/2000s/2000scss.html

    Many government officials and politicians frequented Samchonggak, giving rise to new terms like “backdoor politics” and “Yojong (kisaeng house) politics” that are considered symbolic of the Korean political climate in the 1970s.
    ttp://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S_L9436_001/2000/20000217_1145.htm

    There are two types of kijich’on prostitutes, the registered and the unregistered, or so-called streetwalkers.

    In order to work in the clubs, a woman must go to the local police station to register her name and address and the name of the club
    ttp://www.ciaonet.org/book/moon/Moon01.html

    contact
    Are the bar girls contracts fair and legal? YES AND NO!!!

    The contracts are legal and binding under Korean law.
    ttp://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/8thFW/Howitwasb11d6.html#Questions

    abuse of women
    Most women do not come into the clubs equipped with”hostessing skills” and the willingness to share flesh with GIs. For women who are new to the club scene, an initiation process often takes place. Some women attest to having been raped by their pimp/manager; others have been ordered by the club owner to sleep with a particular soldier;
    ttp://www.ciaonet.org/book/moon/Moon01.html

    people coerced into prostitution was apparently not uncommon up until the 1980s. The movie ‘Chang’ starring the main actress in “My Wife is a Gangster” depicted this kind of thing. It’s worth seeing
    Kushibo at Asian pages

    Forced prostitution in South Korea takes place largely through employment agencies and loan sharks.

    The employment agencies usually lure young women into working at room salons and coffee shops (in Korean, ‘dabang’). The women agree to the job, after having been told the work will require simply pouring drinks or delivering coffee to offices. While the women think they’re simply being hired, the employment agencies are selling them to the room salons and ‘dabang’ for sums well over $10,000 a head.

    As for loan sharks, women who fail to pay off debts in the required amount of time (usually quite short) are sold off to the likes of room salons and ‘dabang.’

    After the women are sold off, the women are told to give up their bodies in order to start “paying back” their employers. The women basically have to earn how much they were initially worth (usually over $10,000). However, the trick is that the owners also charge exorbitant interest rates as weeks or months go by, while any action that ticks off the owner results in large fines. These fines increase the amount the women are expected to “pay back.” In addition, the women also have to pay rent, food, and anything else they use in the pseudo-brothel.

    Of course, it isn’t South Korean law that governs these women’s contracts, but the prospect of getting beaten up or sold off to another similar business or, if unlucky, to a brothel where the women will have to perform greater amount of “services.”

    Basically, once women put their foot in, there are many countermeasures to prevent them from leaving. In addition, women who have escaped the trafficking rings have said police are of no help, because they’re also customers.

    As Kushibo mentioned, forced prostitution was quite rampant during the 1980’s. In those days, women walking down the street were literally pushed into mini-vans and taken away

    Mingi at Asian pages

  128. ponta Says:

    Clare
    Just put h before ttp
    And there are good sits by Korean Americans which examined Korean tradition of Sex Industry.

    ttp://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/02/sins_of_the_fat.html

    I forget other links.
    But
    Kusan AB will provide you a good background.
    And Sarah or something, s Korean American, has provided another good sites.(though, I am
    not entirely agree with her estimate of comfort women under Japanese rule.)

    I think they are all Korean Americans who loves korea
    and worried about Korea.

    It is always good idea that before criticize others, we examine our own lives.

  129. bkj1807 Says:

    Let’s check the fact first:

    First newspaper you cited is Gyeongseong Ilbo (京城日報) which was published by Japanese Government-General of Korea (朝鮮總督府) and as you notice it is published in Japanese. Second newspaper is Maeil Shinmun which was also published by Japanese Government-General of Korea (朝鮮總督府) and it is published in Korean and, since 1940, it is only newspaper published by Korean because government-general closed two other major newspapers published in Korean.

    As you can see or read, the first newspaper, Gyeongseong Ilbo (京城日報) is written in Japanese. Assuming not many women in higher or even middle class want to apply for this job so called, “comfort women” (military prostitutes), it is safe to say that only those women in low class or who want to get away from their hardship would try to apply for this job. If these ads are aimed at Korean women, why these ads are written in Japanese and published Japanese-language newspaper. Are there so many educated Korean women who can read Japanese and subscribe the Japanese newspaper published by Japanese government-general of Korea? I seriously doubt that. My guess is these ads are aimed at either for Japanese or Middlemen who want to profit from this system.
    Second newspaper is Korean-language newspaper and ad is written in Korean with heavy usage of Chinese characters. First, I doubt that this ads are directly aimed at the womens because most of them were not educated to read Chinese characters and that’s why they want to accept this “job offer”

    Second point is that these two newspaper were all published by Government-run newspapers just one year before the war is over, obviously very desperate times. The notion of recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable is almost ridiculous. If I put ad in Sankei Shimbun recruiting someone who help me suiciding, it is open, legitimate, socially acceptable business? Of course, Sankei Shimbun will not allow me to put the ad on their newspaper because it is against their policy and Sankei might be legally responsible if they ever run my ad. However, these newspapers has no policy against recruiting these poor women. They might run these ads for free.

    I have no doubt that their were recruitments but considering these are all published by Japanese government it is not safe to say that it is open, legitimate business. And please check the fact before published.

  130. ponta Says:

    bkj180

    The notion of recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable is almost ridiculous

    Brothel was legal, and in some countries, it is still legal. Even some Koreans are tihnking of legitimizing prositutes because illegal borhtes just go undergroud and that makes crimes worse.

    The point is the agent was private citizens,
    and there are many ways to recurite women by these ads.
    Pimps read them, and recruite uneducated women.
    women who had no job will seek jobs with higher wage, and some could figure out what it was saying just as some oversea Koreans could read some of Chinese letters.

  131. claire Says:

    It is always good idea that before criticize others, we examine our own lives

    That’s an ironic statement isn’t it?
    Ponta it’s really unfortunate because I thought you were going to really enlighten me. I am well aware of korea’s problem with prostitution and how did I know you were deeming it as the “Korean comfort women under Korean regime exploited by Korean society”. “Are you saying that the korean military/government systematically recruited/forced or made job openings/paid for the services of prostitution?” I am not sure about the article from asahi shimbun but the others indicate “backdoor politics” and that governmental surveillance may have been instituted. Even if there was force, you are comparing apples to oranges and perceiving them as merely fruit. Korea has done wrong in the past and if people come out for retribution, it would only be right to apologize and requite. Im so sick of people giving the “koreans have prostitutes” retaliation for the topic of comfort women and digusted from those who suffer from extreme superiority complexes.

  132. bkj1807 Says:

    Ponta
    I am not talking about modern, present time and believe me that I have no problem with brothel either. Now I feel when people said they are quoted “out of content”

    I am saying that the ads does not prove that “the recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable.” And it is published by Japanese government owned newspaper just one year before the war is over when they really need “comfort women”

    And by omitting these facts you are actually misleading.

  133. ponta Says:

    claire
    thanks.
    I really feel sorry for Korean prositutues. Korean women also ignore the misery of Korean women.

    Are you saying that the korean military/government systematically recruited/forced or made job openings/paid for the services of prostitution?

    I repeat.
    Korean military had comfort station in the same way Japanese military had during the war.
    Korean goverment systematically provided job opptunity for prositutes and it has been used politically.
    Korean pimps recruited legally or illegally.
    In the process,there were kidnapping and deception.
    That is exactly the same as Japanese comfort station.

    Your fundamental mistake is that you think Japanese troop systematically kidnapped Korean women into the brothel. There is not such fact.
    The below is my comment on so called the discovery by a Korean proffessor who insists there is a proof.
    ttp://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/03/02/this-is-why-the-comfort-women-arent-satisfied/#comment-73303
    And the below is my comment about the testimony.

    I would rather doubt the tesimony. Not that they were telling lies, but they faintely remember and the testimony was constructed with the help of a intervewer who had preconcept about the comfort station must be like.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030433264X/103-1096385-2718212?v=glance&n=283155
    This is probably only book in which the testimonies were examined by sCholar. The professor says.
    “This book was begun in March 1992, when members of the society began speaking to about 40 former comfort women who had given their addresses and had indicated a willingness to be contacted. In the process of recording testimonies, the number of women we decided to include here was narrowed down to 19. We eliminated those who were reluctant to talk about the details of their experiences, those whose stories contained inconsistencies and those who contradicted themselves. The surviving comfort women are now quite old, and have lived through so much adversity that many can faintly remember the sufferings they endured. To help them remember their experiences more clearly, >strong>all the researchers compared the details of the accounts with what we know about the military history of Japan through documents . In an attempt to obtain accurate testimony, researchers had to interview each survivor more than ten times.”

    And as far as I know, there was no rumor among Koreans that Korean women were kidnapped by japanese police or military man at the time.

    And the US report of testimony collected in 1944 says,
    “.RECRUITING;
    The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the “house master ” for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ”
    http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

    After the Japan’s defeat, during the occupation by the allies, Japan set up Recreation and Amusement Association for GIs in Japan, similar to comfort station .(BTW GHQ asked to help apportion the prostitutes into separate districts to be reserved for use by U.S.
    Japanese government was involved for sure, she had pimps recrruit the woman just as she did in Asia . She licencesed brothels just as she did it in Asian.Some women were deceived, other were so poor and had no relatives to help them. still others were encouraged to work for Japan’s “honor” , but I have never heard that Japanese police or GIs kidnapped women.

    However, the testimony that they were raped by Japanese soldiers say, on the streat or in the bush, is more likelyl to be true. There were many cases of rapes by GIs on the street, probably unpunished under the occupation, but that is not different matters from brothels systems, (though it is a fact that when RRR was in operation,
    the rate of rape by GIs was relatively low).

    Now it is your turn you prove that the Japanesen military/government systematically forced Korean women into the brothel.

  134. ponta Says:

    I am saying that the ads does not prove that “the recruitment of “comfort women” was open, legitimate, and socially acceptable

    It is not socially acceptable. That is why the job was called 醜業(ugly business) (see my comment 133 at marmot hall.)

    In Japan there is a huge ministry building.(in Korea too) The building is owned by the government, and in the building, there is a restaurant. The government approve of the the restaurant. The government provides the place for the private restaurant. The government ask some citizens to run the restaurant in the government owned-
    building.

    But the restaurant is run by a private citizens; They recruit workers and they pay the workers salary.

    Suppose the owner of the restaurant recruited
    workers illegally and mistreated the workers.

    Who is responsible? First and foremost, the owner, the private citizen.

    Is the government responsible for it?
    The involvement is indirect.

    But in a way yes, the government should have checked the applicants for the restaurant more closely and should have controlled recruiting.
    That is the structure of what is happening in the topic of comfort station under Japanese rule and under Korean regime.

  135. ponta Says:

    Anyway, it is quite bizarre the point of korean people in this discussion is not how to save the korean ex-comfort women under Japanese rule and comfort women under Korean regime, but their point looks as if they just wanted to blame Japan. It is a sad fact.

  136. ponta Says:

    comment 133
    That is not different matters from brothels systems
    →that is different matters….

  137. kjeff Says:

    ponta,

    Anyway, it is quite bizarre the point of korean people in this discussion is not how to save the korean ex-comfort women under Japanese rule and comfort women under Korean regime…It is a sad fact.

    That’s a matter of perspectives. I think if you were not Japanese, I would take your concerns with more of an open mind. If I were not Korean(I consider myself Indonesian first actually), you’d probably see my persistent questionings in a better light. And that’s the sad fact.

    …but their point looks as if they just wanted to blame Japan.

    It’s really hard to see the validity other people’s arguments when you always feel that you are being attacked, “blamed.”. “Defense for defense sake,” my wife used to tell me when we’re arguing. I hope that’s not what you were doing.

  138. bkj1807 Says:

    Ponta
    I am grad to hear that what you said, … and socially acceptable, was incorrect. I assume that you think it was legitimate though. However, you should keep in mind that the law you referring was Japanese law. I can accept that Japanese can impose their law on citizen of colonial Korea since, after all, victor decides the fate of the conquered. But when you said that it was legitimate, we have to think about that the law was of Japanese, by Japanese government, for Japanese soldiers in expense of Koreans.

    Second, I also think it is bizarre that it makes this much of controversy but somehow in a different point of view. But I have to address your point first.

    I did some research after your comment 135 and find out that in fact there are organizations help these ex-comfort women and Korean government support them financially. I hope you do some research before posting your opinion.
    When crime or misfortune like these happens, we all need to support victims but we also need to apprehend offenders and need to address mischief the offenders committed so these like of thing never happen again. So it is not against Japanese per se, but it is against offenders. It is serious matter especially offenders deny any wrongdoing.

    The reason I feel bizarre is somewhat different. If you think carefully it is Japanese government who put this article in the front page. When Congress held hearing, it was small article that you can only find in international and then go to Asia section. I believe Mr. Abe aimed his interview mainly to Japanese audience because there is no real diplomat issue b/t US and Japan.
    I can understand why Mr. Abe said what he said although it wasn’t smart at all: Mr. Abe made his political fortune by being strong in kidnapping issue by North Korea. So if he admit his own government used coercive ways including kidnapping to recruit “comfort women” it is major political blow to him and his cabinet. But come on, does he really have to say that at this point?

    Let’s see this from more objective stand. I always wonder why Japan cannot enjoy as same as standard of German. Assume the gas cambers were run by private contractor for Nazi German for argumento. Can anyone really think German PM say what Mr. Abe said? Can German PM say there was no evidence so no more apologies? What makes different? Why Japan cannot say goodbye to old regime and get more respect from its neighbors? Japan has more good things than bad ones.
    Why makes unnecessary big deal out of this? Congress had hearing and there were alleged kidnapping or coercion as 2 Korean women and 1 Holland women testified and at best it will pass NON-binding resolution. What a big deal? Apologize and compensate them like German doing and say goodbye to old imperial regime.

  139. kjeff Says:

    Ponta,

    But in a way yes, the government should have checked the applicants for the restaurant more closely and should have controlled recruiting.
    That is the structure of what is happening in the topic of comfort station under Japanese rule and under Korean regime.

    This is just questions. I’m not “blaming” anyone or anything. I think we can safely agree that Japanese government could have done more to “checked the applicants” during the occupation. Can you tell me then what they actually did do? Did they require birth certificates for example, if there were such thing at that time? Could any man walk to any comfort station with women, hand them off, and collect some sort of reward? If one needed a license to become a ‘pimp’, what’s the criteria? If the official in-charge ‘noticed’ a coerced woman, what would happen to her? What would happen to the pimp who brought her?

  140. kjeff Says:

    bkj1807,
    Personally I think Japanese government has apologized enough, and their foreign-aids have been more than generous. I think what I’d like to see from them is some sort of standard of what is unacceptable. Kono’s statement for example, I’d love to see them criminalize Kono’s deniers the same way Holocaust deniers are prosecuted across Europe. I think when that happens we can call it a day, no?

  141. bkj1807 Says:

    kjeff,
    I agree with you. I just checked the list of war apology statements issued by Japanese government and it is a long list. You are right. As far as I know denial of Holocaust is illegal at least in Austria. When Japanese government stands against those who damages its reputation, it is better for Japan and the rest of world.

  142. tomato Says:

    Comparing with the Holocaust? You should be ashamed of the level of ignorance you have presented for yourselves! It seems that you guys are the one who better be prosecuted in Europe for your failure to recognize the horrors of the final solution.

  143. bkj1807 Says:

    kjeff,
    I have to add one more thing. According to Mainichi Daily News, many comfort women have rejected the Asian Women’s Fund and what I understand is that they demand formal apology statement issued by Diet of Japan not by some secretary.

  144. tomato Says:

    http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2007/02/korean_holocaus.html

  145. bkj1807 Says:

    tomato,
    I actually regret the gas chamber comparison as soon as I wrote but I couldn’t find anyway to edit it out. I apologize anyone who offended and that was not my intention.
    When I mentioned “gas chamber” what is mind was the Nanjing Massacre not “comfort women.”

  146. jion999 Says:

    kjeff

    I’d love to see them criminalize Kono’s deniers the same way Holocaust deniers are prosecuted across Europe.

    Before concluding so (I know Koreans like to conclude so without any verification), you must answer my questions of 96, 98, 102, 105.

    Even if 200,000 women were kidnapped, Korean men were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight.
    Is that correct?
    Korean in 1940s was coward?

  147. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,
    Please pardon me for interruption. According to Japan Policy Research Institute, estimates of the number of comfort women range between 50,000 and 200,000. I am not sure where you get the number but it is absurd all of them were kidnapped and it is equally absurd that all of them volunteered. JPRI said that “some were minors sold into brothels; others were deceptively recruited by middlemen; still others were forcibly abducted.”

    By definition of kidnapping, victim’s families are large in dark whereabouts of their family members. When someone is abducted, what you gonna do? First thing to do is probably report to policy and in this case it is Japanese police. I am not saying police is involved. What I am saying is that let’s argue with reason without insulting people.

  148. nigelboy Says:

    I have to add one more thing. According to Mainichi Daily News, many comfort women have rejected the Asian Women’s Fund and what I understand is that they demand formal apology statement issued by Diet of Japan not by some secretary

    Then what’s next? My guess is compensation. And the way these Korean nationalists/J-bashers use, they’ll use the Diet apology as “evidence”.

    And what else. Let me see. Precedent has been set so here comes the waves of “apology/compensation okawari” demands from our beloved neighbors.

    Want proof? Mike Hyundai, et al has used “Kono Statement” as evidence to support his argument.

  149. tomato Says:

    The problem with the “comfort women” issue is that no judicial scrutiny has been made against the allegations- nor was there any substantial/credible examination by any government agency. And there isn’t going to be any since the governments of S Korea and Japan did in fact agreed to settle all individual reparation/compensation issues back in 1965. Governments can’t be expected to reopen the legal issue- the mess it will cause is really beyond our wildest thoughts. There are too many background noises intertwined with nationalism and the sort- it’s simple bashing Japan but the reality is not as simple as one may think.

    Setting up a fund is one way the problem could have been “settled”- similar settlements were reached this way between former slave/forced laborers and Germany quite recently. Now does this really “settle” the issue? May be one might want to take a look at this book:

    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20030221_ramasastry.html

  150. jion999 Says:

    tomato
    The above link is so good. Thank you.
    I have felt similarly with the writer of the above blog.
    “Korean Holocaust Envy”
    Koreans have very strong desire to become almighty victims of Japanese empire.
    If Korean are admitted so, it is possible for Korean to force Japanese apologize forever and forget about inferior complex to be conquered by Japanese.
    Comfort women controversy was invented by Japanese leftist group in 1980s. Before that, Korean did not have and idea to attack Japan with using prostitutes.
    Now, they are insisting “200,000” victims story and asking American to admit Korean would be almighty victims.
    I hope Korean would not make the same failure of Taekwondo.

  151. bkj1807 Says:

    I am new in this forum and I linked to this forum from NY times article. I can notice that emotion runs high in this forum.
    nigelboy,
    What are you afraid of? Are you afraid of compensation? Do you think these poor women think they can get more money with apology? Instead of issuing numerous apologies from various government position, why don’t Japan settle it once and for all?
    If Japan issue formal apology form Diet and compensate victims from previously established Asian Women’s fund and victims still demand more and more, I will be officially on Japan’s side. Let’s settle it once for all.

  152. bkj1807 Says:

    tomato,

    As you said it is complicated issue and Japan has legitimate interest to protect itself from frivolous lawsuits. However, one should think about what is better way to deal with – both financially or morally. Now not many people blame Federal Republic of German for what Nazi German did and the book you introduced is one of explanation.

    Assuming jion999 is right that Korean did not have idea of this problem before 1980s, one of reason of this occurrence is economy. Now Korea is well informed and has resource to spend on these issues and today’s “comfort women” issue is certainly not the last.

    We cannot avoid this problem because simply it is complicated. The book you recommend rather provide a solution if it is not the solution.

  153. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807

    What I am saying is that let’s argue with reason without insulting people.

    I read you “argument” trying to deny the above ads as the evidence to show Korean women were recruited as prostitutes openly for money.
    I felt your explanation was just quibbling without any evidences.
    Don’t you wonder why such kind brave Korean men did not fight or make protest after losing their daughters?
    After the independence, Japanese soldiers went out of Korean, but there was no record which Korean families of comfort women made protest against Japan in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
    I just like to ask Korean the reason why.
    Kjeff never answered my questions and tried to change topics.
    I am not insulting.
    OK?

  154. bkj1807 Says:

    nigelboy,

    What are you afraid of? Are you afraid of spending too much money on these poor women or are you afraid of getting blames?

    If Japanese government issue formal apology as these women want and compensate them as they deserve but these women still demand more and more and try to defame Japanese government, I will be officially on the Japan’s side. Let’s start positive conversation with these women and try to build mutual relationship. I strongly believe this is the way to get respect back.

    jion999,
    I believe you know about Korea very well what is about “failure of Taekwondo”?

  155. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807

    Assuming jion999 is right that Korean did not have idea of this problem before 1980s, one of reason of this occurrence is economy.

    Your imagination again!
    It is meaningless to argue with imagination only.

  156. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    It is not imagination. It called change in social dynamic. Korea was relatively poor country until 1980s or so. Even if Korean government know about this it will make issue out of it because they want financial capital from Japan to develop its economy. As you notice, these “comfort women” issue was not brought by government it is by private sector. Ever wonder why? because now they have resource to spend and private sector is after issues like this. How come it is imaginary. It is potential problem for Japan.

  157. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    “failure of Taekwondo” is the typical distortion of history made by Korean ultra nationalist.
    Korean taekwondo association fabricated the history of Taekwondo as “Korean original marshal arts with 2000 years history”, and deceived people in the world, bribed IOC members, and made it Olympic sports.
    However, after becoming famous, many foreign practitioners started to point out Taekwondo’s origin must be Karate, and taekwondo founders could not help admitting the true history.

  158. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,
    I assumed your statement is right. Are you telling me that your statement is imaginary or that assuming your statement is right is imaginary?
    If you statement is imaginary, you are right that assuming imaginary statement makes me imaginary. But if your statement is imaginary, why assuming true statement is imaginary?

  159. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    That is quiet interesting story. I want to know more on that. Can you provide more information such as an article or book please?

  160. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    So do you mean Korean families of comfort women did not protest against Japan because of poorness?
    It is just imagination of you.
    In 1965, when Park Chung Hee agreed with Japan to open diplomatic relationship, Korean made a big demonstration. But no one criticized Japan with comfort women case.
    How about press?
    No mention about women kidnapping during the war.
    It is unnatural, isn’t it?

  161. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    I am not saying that it was only because of economical condition but it was one of the main factor. I believe to have definite answer we need to do more research so why don’t you reserve your comment like “all Korean men are coward.” It is also your imagination.

    Another factor I can think of it the shame on the family I guess. Like ordinary rape victim, not many women will come out with this charge. If you read newspaper, you can easily find that rape victim seldom come out and society as general need to encourage them to come out. You can find this syndrome easily on internet.

  162. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807

    That is quiet interesting story. I want to know more on that. Can you provide more information such as an article or book please?

    Can you read Korean?
    This is an article of monthly Tonga to show the confession of the vice president of Taekwondo head dojo.
    He confessed he has written the fabricated history of Taekwondo to make it more beautiful.
    http://www.donga.com/docs/magazine/new_donga/200204/nd2002040010.html

  163. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807

    but it was one of the main factor.

    OK. So show us your evidences.

    Another factor I can think of it the shame on the family I guess. Like ordinary rape victim, not many women will come out with this charge.

    If a daughter disappeared suddenly during the war and did not come back even after war, how the family know she was raped as comfort women?
    Your story of imagination is enough.

  164. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    Family doesn’t know and they are not claim it is victim herself who claim, Ok?

  165. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    Oh man, it is a lot of Korean and some of term is not easy to understand. I guess it will take time to read whole thing but thanks anyway and this comment thing, it is addictive I might cool it off for a while.

  166. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    If a daughter disappears suddenly, how her families behave?
    Not one or two daughters. It is 200,000!
    Did you find any news article even after independence to show the unsolved kidnapping of Korean women during the war?
    I recommend you not to talk on your imagination. Before doing so, you had better search for the evidences.

  167. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    I am not sure what evidence you talking about?

  168. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    jion999, I already said that it is impossible all 200,000 is kidnapped, have not read my comment?

  169. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    If you ask me to produce evidence of why not Korean come out of “comfort women” issue before 1980s, I have none. How can I produce evidence why they did not come out? How can I prove mind of individual people? All we can do is educated guess. Then what is your evidence that they did not come out before 1980s?

  170. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    In the resolution of comfort women in US House of representatives, it says 200,000.

    I am not sure what evidence you talking about?

    Please read 163.

  171. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    I really don’t know why you keep call it imagination. Do you know the word “hypothesis”? Many scientific research begins with hypothesis.

  172. bkj1807 Says:

    read 147
    According to Japan Policy Research Institute, estimates of the number of comfort women range between 50,000 and 200,000.

  173. jion999 Says:

    Then what is your evidence that they did not come out before 1980s?

    I have discussed with Korean on Naver (Enjoy Korea) and asked Korean the same questions many times.
    No one could not show any evidences that Korean families made protest for their missing daughters in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
    We are insisting there is no evidence to show the systematic kidnapping of Korean women.
    If you like to criticize Japan, you have to show the evidences.
    Did Japanese government terminated all evidences?
    So how do you criticize Japan?
    With your imaginations only?

  174. ponta Says:

    Clare
    I forgot putting up this link for the war time operation.

    A group of Republic of Korea scientists Thursday wrapped up a study of the war in central Vietnam with focus on the issue of Vietnamese women being forced into sex slavery by Korean troops

    ttp://www.thanhniennews.com/society/?catid=3&newsid=13820
    Kjeff wrote in response to my statement to the effect it is bizare Korea blame Japan while giving up on Korean prostitutes.

    That’s a matter of perspectives.

    Oh my.

    It’s really hard to see the validity other people’s arguments when you always feel that you are being attacked

    It is really hard to understand person who compare Japan with a rapist but who says he
    is not blaming her.

    However, you should keep in mind that the law you referring was Japanese law

    And Koreans were Japanese. And in some countries it is still legal and you wrote

    present time and believe me that I have no problem with brothel either.

    hear!hear! everybody!
    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=527#comment-15484
    No wonder Korean sex industry thrives despite—or because of—Special Law
    So what did you say your rant was?

    I did some research after your comment 135 and find out that in fact there are organizations help these ex-comfort women and Korean government support them financially. I hope you do some research before posting your opinion.

    I hope you do some reserch too.

    ttp://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/03/02/this-is-why-the-comfort-women-arent-satisfied/#comment-73126

    When crime or misfortune like these happens, we all need to support victims but we also need to apprehend offenders and need to address mischief the offenders committed so these like of thing never happen again. So it is not against Japanese per se, but it is against offenders. It is serious matter especially offenders deny any wrongdoing

    Right it is a shame and hypocritical many Korean people keep demanding apology while ignoring Korean offenders.
    kjeff wrote

    Can you tell me then what they actually did do? Did they require birth certificates for example, if there were such thing at that time?

    Yes, they did, they issued ID for the prostitutes and they had power to permit or not to permit.
    Hey you guys, read the comments I wrote before. I am really getting tired of explaining the same things.
    ttp://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/03/02/this-is-why-the-comfort-women-arent-satisfied/#comment-73303

                記
     一、本人写真二枚添付セル臨時酌婦営業許可願各人別ニ壱通(様式第一号)
     一、承諾書(様式第二号)
     一、印鑑証明書
     一、戸籍謄本
     一、酌婦稼業者ニ対スル調査書(様式第三号)

      昭和一二年一二月二十一日
                       在上海日本総領事館警察署

    —————————————————————-
    (様式第一号) 臨時酌婦営業許可願
      本籍
      現住所
      営業場所
           家号
           芸名
           本名
                       生年月日
     右者今般都合ニ依リ前記場所ニ於テ臨時酌婦営業致度候条、御許可相成度、別紙承諾書、印鑑証明、戸籍謄本、調査書並ニ写真二枚相添抱主連署ノ上、此段及奉願候也
      昭和  年  月   日
                   右本ノ何某 印
                   抱主 何某 印
     在上海
       日本総領事館  御中
    ——————————————————————–
    (様式第二号)    承諾書
      本籍
      住所
                   稼業人
                         生年月日
     右ノ者前線ニ於ケル貴殿指定ノ陸軍慰安所ニ於テ酌婦稼業(娼妓同様)ヲ為スコトヲ承諾仕候也
       昭和 年 月 日
                  右戸主又ハ親権者    何 某 印
                  稼業者         何 某 印
    ——————————————————————–
    (様式第三号) 酌婦稼業者何某ニ対スル調査書(調査書)
     前居住地及来 年月日
     現住所
     教育程度経歴
     酌婦稼業ヲ為スニ至リタル理由
     刑罰ニ処セラレラレタル存否
     両親又ハ内縁ノ夫ノ有無其ノ職業
     別借金額
     参考事項

    htp://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~knagai/2semi/nagai.html
    for the prostitutes
    the date of birth
    the present address
    academic record
    criminal record
    the reason for application
    parents or husband
    the debt
    etc
    for the brothel owner
    the photo
    the permit
    family register
    the investigative report on comfort women
    etc.
    And when the women was found to be kidnapped, the brothel was closed down and illegal pimps
    were prosecuted.
    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=309#comment-6861

    Under Korean regime

    Are the bar girls contracts fair and legal? YES AND NO!!!

    The contracts are legal and binding under Korean law. This has been established in the courts. However, the problems comes in the enforcement of the terms of the contract. In this there are two things to be considered. One, the contractor who made the contract and the employee who signs the contract.

    As to the contractors, it has been established that most contractors have falsely represented the amount of money that was to be made under the contract. We don’t know about the Russian contracts, but the Filipina contracts state the women will NOT drink with the customers and will NOT engage in prostitution. It has also been established that these terms are violated starting from the first day the bar girl reports to work. The contractor remains outside this dispute as a “local agent” handles the contract once in Korea. If the individual chooses to enter into prostitution, the clause stating where the bar girl would NOT engage in prostitution makes her the target of deportation — while the contractor is free from liabilit

    ttp://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/8thFW/Howitwasb11d6.html#Questions

    Personally I think Japanese government has apologized enough, and their foreign-aids have been more than generous

    what I’d like to see is Korea festival bashing themselves as they based Japan, blaming Korean government for using Kaesan house for political purpose, exploiting comfort women, being easy on illegal Korean pimps who kidnapped and deceived Korean women.

    I agree with you. I just checked the list of war apology statements issued by Japanese government and it is a long list. You are right

    You are right too. Demanding endless apology IS just …what can I say.

    I am not sure where you get the number but it is absurd all of them were kidnapped

    It is absurd but many Korean people (used to ) believe it.

    it is equally absurd that all of them volunteered.

    You are asking the same question as Kjeff.
    I answered his question. I wrote it somewhere.
    Besides, there were no rumor or something like among Koreans that at the time that the girls were kidnapped. Most Korean Americans who lived under Japanese rule had never heard
    of comfort women.

    Do you think these poor women think they can get more money with apology? Instead of issuing numerous apologies from various government position, why don’t Japan settle it once and for all?

    Actually all the compensation was supposed be
    paid by Korean government.

    The High Contracting Parties confirm that the problems concerning property, rights, and interests of the two High Contracting Parties and their peoples (including juridical persons) and the claims between the High Contracting Parties and between their peoples, including those stipulated in Article IV(a) of the Peace Treaty with Japan signed at the city of San Francisco on September 8, 1951, have been settled completely and finally

    ttp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_Between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea_Concerning_the_Settlement_of_Problems_in_Regard_to_Property_and_Claims_and_Economic_Cooperation
    That is why Korean government could not demand
    further compensation from Japan.
    But the rant continued, Japanese government responded and set up funds.
    Korean nationalist prevented the comfort women from receiving it for nationalistic reason though they really needed it.

    The Year of 2001
    Dear Madam,

    On the occasion that the Asian Women’s Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my feelings as well.

    The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women.

    As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

    We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future.

    I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations.

    Furthermore, Japan also should take an active part in dealing with violence and other forms of injustice to the honor and dignity of women.

    Finally, I pray from the bottom of my heart that each of you will find peace for the rest of your lives.

    Respectfully yours,

    ttp://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html

    It is surprising Korean people know little about his issue.
    And it is still bizarre Korean debaters still insist demanding restricting the denier of Kono’s statement while ignoring completely the issue of Korean comfort women under Korean regime.

  175. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    You are totally misunderstood. I never mentioned that there is evidence to show the systematic kidnapping of Korean women. You can read my comment carefully I did not accuse Japaneses government of any systematic kidnapping. But if you want to hear the incidental kidnapping you can hear from Jan Ruff O’Herne
    According to Mainichi, she was a Dutch colonist in Java when she was made to work in a Japanese brothel. She said in her prepared testimony to Congress that memories of being raped and beaten day and night, even by the doctor who examined her for venereal disease, “have tortured my mind all my life.” She also said that “Japan must come to terms with its history and acknowledge (its) wartime atrocities,” she said.

    If this is what you want you got it.
    If you like to criticize Japan, you have to show the evidences.

  176. ponta Says:

    bkj180
    I really recommend to read at least the comments on this thread.

  177. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    I have a question.
    Are you a japanese?

  178. bkj1807 Says:

    ponta,

    I read comments. If your position is that there was no systematic kidnapping by Japanese government, I agree with you. There is no evidence of this conduct so far.
    But you cannot say there was no kidnapping or coercion whatsoever, then how can you explain the testimony of Ms. O’Hene?

    My position is modest. Every society has a rotten apple or two. I better get rid of this bad apples instead of hiding in my pocket.

  179. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999,

    What difference does it make? I live in US so long that forget where I am from. I am just a lawyer recently came to this forum from NY Times. First I though you guys are all bunch of rednecks whether you are Korean or Japanese – no offense – but actually you guys are quiet reasonable. I hope we can comment each other without insulting our intelligence.

  180. kjeff Says:

    Tomato,

    Comparing with the Holocaust? You should be ashamed of the level of ignorance you have presented for yourselves! It seems that you guys are the one who better be prosecuted in Europe for your failure to recognize the horrors of the final solution.

    Who’s comparing what with the Holocaust? Please read again…

  181. ponta Says:

    If you have read the comments, then next proceed to read the links listed on the comments.

  182. bkj1807 Says:

    ponta

    Say directly, I am old enough to take it. What is your evidence that there were no evidence of coercion whatsoever?

  183. ponta Says:

    I think what I’d like to see from them is some sort of standard of what is unacceptable. Kono’s statement for example, I’d love to see them criminalize Kono’s deniers the same way Holocaust deniers are prosecuted across Europe. I think when that happens we can call it a day, no?

    I’d love to see them criminalize Korean comfort women under Korean regime deniers the same way Holocaust deniers are prosecuted across Europe. I think when that happens we can call it a day, no?

    I am not comparing Kjeff with Holocaust denier, He is not denier, he just ignores it.
    And I am not comparing clare with Holocaust denier accordig to Kjeff;though she denis comfort women under Korean regime.

  184. ponta Says:

    Say directly,

    I said it directly. proceed to read the links listed on the comment.
    I am really tired of repeating.

  185. bkj1807 Says:

    ponta,

    What are you saying? I read links as well. I showed my burden of proof by the testimony of dutch woman so what is yours? I really want to know.

  186. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807
    I do not have an idea to insult you.
    You can read Japanese, but can not read Korean. So, I wonder whether you are Japanese or a Japanese American.
    The point is, do you believe that the relationship between Japan and Korea would be better if Japan apologize again?

    I never mentioned that there is evidence to show the systematic kidnapping of Korean women.

    Even if you never mentioned so, Korean are broadcasting so in the world.

    According to Japan Policy Research Institute, estimates of the number of comfort women range between 50,000 and 200,000.

    Even so, Korean nationalists picked up the biggest number and are broadcasting in the world.
    I believe you are insisting your opinion on your goodwill.
    But such kind opinions or activities are used by Korean ultranationalist to criticize Japan.
    Why do they like to distort the history and criticize Japan?
    It is revenge.
    They call it “恨”.
    I believe such kind behavior would not help to create the good relationship between Japan and Korea.

  187. bkj1807 Says:

    jion999

    I wanted to respond to your comment but somehow I cannot post my comment.

    I was saying:

    You have a point. I don’t think relationship b/t Japan and Korea would be better. I am recently drawn on this issue and I only care about this issue and does not want to deal with other issues b/t two. But the issue greatly concern me. How about, in alternative, Japan issue a statement to victims not to government?

  188. bkj1807 Says:

    Oops, it went through. My apology. I was nice to talk with you guys. Now I really have to go to bed. I want to make nice conversation with you guys later; by the way, all you guys in Australia?

  189. kjeff Says:

    jion999,
    First, I’ve never claimed 200,000 were kidnapped.
    Second, well, I hope you can do some arithmetic…hmmm…
    .
    I feel like OJ…
    I’ll stick with the number 200,000 for practical purposes. Suppose there were 20 areas that I could kidnapped the women from, that means that in each I only needed to kidnap 10,000 women. You have let’s say 5 months before the news of what happened to the very first woman you kidnapped reaches her family, that’s 20 weeks. It also means that you need to kidnap 500 women per week per area to fulfill your quota. Let’s say you only work 5 days a week. That means you needed to kidnap 100 women a day. That also means that you needed to get 50 women before lunch and another 50 before you got home. Let’s say you made 2 runs in the morning, and another 2 in the afternoon. That means, you needed to get 25 women per run. You targeted 5-10 women per village, on average you needed to hit 3 villages per run. You suspected that there would be a mob of 50 men per village, and you took 10 men with guns with you to ensure ‘smooth’ operation. 10 with guns vs 50 with knifes. To sum-up, you need just 200 men working efficient runs for 5 months, and you’d get 200,000 before what first news of what happen to them are known. You could say for example they’ll be working in factories, and no one would know better for 5 months. Occasionaly perhaps rumors broke out, but without mass media as we have today, those could be easily contained. And even after 5 months, it’s easy to do localize damage control. Use the power of denial. No one really want to believe bad things happen to them, use it. “Oh, she’s fine. She works in uniform factory. She’ll be home soon.”
    .
    25w/rx2rx2w/dx5dx20wkx20a=200,000w.wk.a
    .
    Clear? That was stupid exercise, but for you jion999… for you….
    No corwardice there…

  190. ponta Says:

    ponta,

    What are you saying? I read links as well. I showed my burden of proof by the testimony of dutch woman so what is yours? I really want to know.

    However, the testimony that they were raped by Japanese soldiers say, on the streat or in the bush, is more likelyl to be true. There were many cases of rapes by GIs on the street, probably unpunished under the occupation, but that is not different matters from brothels systems, (though it is a fact that when RRR was in operation,
    the rate of rape by GIs was relatively low).

    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=527#comment-15485

    As for Dutch women,
    Two cents summarised nicely.
    “The man executed as the war criminal for the charge was Yoshiharu Okada. (Maybe Keiji Okada, I’m not sure how to read the kanji.) He was found guilty for kidnapping, forcing prostitution, and rape of Dutch women at Semarang and executed by the Dutch.”……” The facility was closed down after the General Staff Yamamoto hears that the women were taken by force. “…….”
    ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=309#comment-6861

    As for O’Herne, if the story is true, that was a horrible crime.
    She said,
    “more than half a century after her dignity was stripped from her, Mrs O’Herne is still waiting for an apology from Japan”
    ttp://www.theage.com.au/news/world/australian-woman-seeks-apology-from -japan/2007/02/13/1171128974189.html

    “Mrs Ruff-O’Herne said of Cardinal Shirayanagi’s apology, sent even though the Japanese Government still refuses to accept any responsibility: “This is a healing of wounds, a bridge of peace.”
    …..
    “Last night, however, Kayo Yoshida handed a painting by her artist sister, Mizuyo Kawabata, to Mrs Ruff-O’Herne. “It will hang in a place of honour in my home,” she said”
    April 25 2003
    ttp://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/24/1050777359432.html#top

    But Koizumi had made an statement of apology and responsibility.

    “The Year of 2001

    Dear Madam,

    On the occasion that the Asian Women’s Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my feelings as well.

    The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women.

    As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women….”

    We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future.

    I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations.”
    ttp://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html

    Asian woman’s fund was set up by the decision and th investment of the Japanese Government.

    I find it a little hard what she really wants.

    Does she want apology for her rape from PM individually?
    Should American president apologize to each Japanese women raped by GI during the occupation? Is that what each head of the country are supposed to do?

    ttp://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/03/02/this-is-why-the-comfort-women-arent-satisfied/#comment-73126

    I put up the above link on the commnet somethere on this thread.

  191. jion999 Says:

    bkj1807

    How about, in alternative, Japan issue a statement to victims not to government?

    For what?
    It seems to be meaningless to make another Kono statement.
    Korean nationalists would use it as an evidence/excuse to criticize Japan to force Japanese to kneel down in the near future for revenge.
    Do you believe Japanese could love such kind Korean?
    Do you believe we can create good relationship in the future?
    Korean ultranationalists are not criticizing Japanese because of humanity but revenge against miserable modern history to be conquered by Japan.
    And the feeling of hatred never disappear if Korean Government continues unti-Japan brainwash.

  192. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    Before tell me anything, answer my questions of 96, 98, 102, 105 fast.

    Even if 200,000 women were kidnapped, Korean men were afraid of Japanese soldiers and did not try to fight.
    Is that correct?
    Korean in 1940s was coward?

    (조소)

  193. kjeff Says:

    jion999,

    Comment no. 189 was the answer…Read!!!

  194. kojibomb Says:

    hmmm
    jion999 has a point.

    It seems to be meaningless to make another Kono statement.
    Korean nationalists would use it as an evidence/excuse to criticize Japan to force Japanese to kneel down in the near future for revenge.

    If Japan apologizes again and again, nothing will change; korean government will encourage anti Japanese propaganda. Plus, Japan apologized many times before, but…
    did any Japanese compensated and apologized to comfort woman? or is this comfort woman thing recent problem?

  195. kjeff Says:

    jion999,
    Oh, you don’t have to read “fast”…slowly…slowly…

  196. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    That is an answer?
    hahahaha
    Never mind.
    I did not expect any reasonable answer from you.
    (笑)

  197. jion999 Says:

    kojibomb

    did any Japanese compensated and apologized to comfort woman? or is this comfort woman thing recent problem?

    Don’t you know the treaty between Japan and Korea in 1965?
    Both countries gave up to ask any kind of personal reparations and Japan agreed to pay a lot of money to Korea.
    If you like to give compensation to ex-comfort women, you have to ask Korean government, not Japanese government.

  198. jion999 Says:

    kojibomb
    The treaty between Japan and Korea in 1965
    第二条
    1 両締約国は,両締約国及びその国民(法人を含む。)の財産,権利及び利益並びに両締約国及びその国民の間の請求権に関する問題が,千九百五十一年九月八日にサン・フランシスコ市で署名された日本国との平和条約第四条(a)に規定されたものを含めて,完全かつ最終的に解決されたこととなることを確認する。
    http://www.ioc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~worldjpn/documents/texts/JPKR/19650622.T9J.html

    Both countries gave up asking any kind of personal reparations and Japan agreed to pay a lot of money to Korea.
    This is a promise between both countries more than 40 years ago.
    The problem Korean government did not disclose the detail recently to Korean people was not a fault of Japanese.

  199. kjeff Says:

    jion999,

    You…you…you remind me…
    .
    You remind me what my dad must have felt when he bought me that badminton racket for the very first time. He told me to practice balancing the shuttlecock first, but I was keep insisting that we play. He finally relented to my whinings. And, the man spent most of his time climbing ladder and squatting next to flood drains(I should have tried golf instead). He was willing. He did those for two hours; I actually got tired first. I eventually ‘play’ badminton, but I guess I still have a lot to learn about patience.
    Good Morning, Good Afternoon, and Good Night…wherever you are…

  200. jion999 Says:

    kjeff
    You are a funny guy.(웃음)
    I am sorry but I don’t give a damn about your personal memory.(폭소)

  201. jion999 Says:

    The most important matter is how to create the friendly relationship between Japan and Korea.
    I had a personal experience that a Korean American friend forced me to apologize about historical matter.
    I know many Japanese who studied in foreign countries suffered similar experiences.
    But such kind Koreans do not have any historical knowledges. They just have the conviction of propaganda that Japanese is wrong.
    What is this?
    If Japanese government apologize this time again, it would be another evidence that Japanese was brutal.
    And this would not help to build good relationship between Japan and Korea.
    And giving them another excuse to hate Japanese.

  202. jion999 Says:

    The point is, Japanese is not an angel.
    If Korean continues to criticize Japanese like this, Japanese would start to hate Korean.
    It would be the most dangeous situation.

  203. petero Says:

    Abe knows something lies about some women in USA who insist ” Comfort women”

    He said ” He does not need to apology for USA about those comfort women.” in Japan.

    Because he ( Japan) has been apologized for Asia ( victims) since 1995 but investigation started since 1991.
    Each Korean woman could get money ” 2000000 yen ” but some women’s testifies are not sure as same as three women testified in USA , the house.

    http://crimebykoreanandchineseinjapan.blogspot.com/

    I saw washingtong comfort women org. and it uses history , ” Japan invaded Manchuria”
    That’s wrong. My great grand mother ( Japanese ) was killed in Manchuria by chinese.
    There were so many japanese were killed by chinese.
    Manchuria was not exist at that time, tried to built up by japan and some of chinese, but
    assasination was happened and Russia did it but Russia and China clamied Japan did.
    You don’t know this.
    http://themanchurianincident.blogspot.com/

    By the way, three women testified at the House of USA.

    They may be liers.

    http://crimebykoreanandchineseinjapan.blogspot.com/

    They have been in Japan, may be not like to get only 2000000yen.

    Their each stories to news papers , published book, lectures at many school, are totally different!

    PM Abe knows this, and he said ” I don’t think I need make apology for ( Those women are liers) in USA.” and he got upset before he came America.

    I wonder why some of Democrats like Mike Honda, only heard from those comfort women( Who have doramatic stories) but not from Japan.

    They should hear from both.

    Today, many Japanese know this incident in USA, and the fact about those women.

    Most of women and countires got money with apology from Japan , already.

    How abut Japanese victis?

    In Japan, there were Japanese comfort women too.

    But they don’t talk about what ‘s happened to them.

    There were so many Japanese victims too by USA army.

    I dn’t understand those democrats congressmen’s feeling , They are Americans but they attack japan about WWII without apology.

    I see they are racisit , ANTI- JAPAN.

  204. ” ‘IANFU’ comfort woman wanted. ” on Korean newspaper. « Study of English Says:

    […] http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=527 […]

  205. GarlicBreath Says:

    as I predicted. Corean whores are claiming to be “Sex slaves” around the world. This time it is in Sidney.

    10 Korean ‘Sex Slaves’ Freed in Sydney

  206. Gerbilbastard Says:

    Police allege the syndicate recruited women in South Korea by deceiving them about the jobs on offer and then organized their work visas, the government statement said. It did not say what type of jobs the women were offered.

    Um, you read ‘police allege’ as ‘Koreans claiming’? Did you actually read the article or just pick up on the headline written by the associated press? F・A・I・L

  207. GarlicBreath Says:

    Australian Federal Police Assistant Commissioner Tim Morris said the women came to Australia to work in the sex industry, but under more reasonable conditions .

    Suddenly they are “sex slaves”. I predict that those 10 women will be suing the Australian government.