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Ban Ki-Moon rejects internal Japanese political debate as “next UN secretary general”

November 7th, 2006 . by Matt

ban ki-moon

Asia-Watch reports that South Korean foreign minister and next UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon thinks that elected politicians in democratic Japan should not be able to express their opinions or debate an issue like nuclear policy.

TOKYO (AFP) – South Korean Foreign Minister and incoming UN chief Ban Ki-Moon have expressed alarm over calls in Japan to consider a nuclear weapons program, saying the debate was not healthy for the region.

“On the option of nuclear arms, which some powerful Japanese politicians have debated since
North Korea’s atom bomb test, I would like to express concerns,” he said Monday, “not only as South Korean foreign minister but also as the next UN secretary general.

“Such remarks would not serve right for the future of one of the most significant UN member states and a leading country of Northeast Asia,” he said at a news conference in Tokyo.

Top aides to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, including Foreign Minister Taro Aso, have called for Japan to hold a frank debate on whether to develop nuclear weapons after communist neighbor North Korea on October 9 tested an atomic bomb.

Abe, however, has stood by a 1967 policy under which Japan, the only nation to be attacked by atomic weapons, has refused the possession, production and presence of nuclear weapons on its soil.

“Of course the Japanese government, including the prime minister and foreign minister, says it abides by the three-point, non-nuclear principles,” Ban said. “But it’s not good that such a political debate continues.”

Abe on Monday downplayed the brewing debate in his Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) on the nuclear option, saying no one was calling for the country to build atomic weapons.

“It is extremely clear that the three-point, non-nuclear principles are and have been the government’s unchanged policy. No one is against this policy,” Abe told reporters.

Asia-Watch commented that –

What exactly is Ban’s point? Does he not believe that Japanese politicians should have the right to debate their government’s policies? Abe has already made it clear several times that he will stick to a no-nuclear weapons policy. The U.S. government has assured Japan that it remains under America’s nuclear umbrella and that it does not wish for Japan to go nuclear. There is no sign that Abe is about to change his mind any time soon. It looks like Ban is just trying to get some press for himself out of a non-issue, and the AFP has fallen for it.

I agree, and I would also add that it is extremely ironic that Ban should describe Japan as being “one of the most significant UN member states” when it was Ban that led the charge to prevent Japan from getting a seat on the UN security council. Ironically, Japan supported Ban’s bid to become the UN secretary general. I am guessing there was some sort of back room deal in which the Koreans would tone down the anti-Japanism in exchange for support for Ban becoming the UN secretary general. If such a deal went down, it shows how foolish the Japanese diplomats were to believe that it would really happen.

I also found this quote about Ban on the Voice of America.

Former U.S. National Security Adviser General Brent Scowcroft says Mr. Ban’s nomination is an interesting development, particularly for Washington.

“For the first time in the history of the United Nations, an ally of one of the permanent members of the Security-Council is the secretary-general,” he noted. “That’s never happened before.”

I believe the word here should be nominal ally. The US is having trouble even getting South Korea to sanction North Korea. Some ally.


38 Responses to “Ban Ki-Moon rejects internal Japanese political debate as “next UN secretary general””

  1. comment number 1 by: Hyalucent

    He didn’t happen to mention which Security-Council member their were allied with, did he? 😉

  2. comment number 2 by: GarlicBreath

    To a Korean, his blood is much more important then serving the higher propose of the office like UNGS.

    My predictions:

    Ban will lead the fight for stalking Takeshima

    Ban will try and rename the sea of japan

    Ban will fully support a nuke armed NK

    Ban will undermine the USA and Japan at every opportunity.

    Ban will be the most corrupt of the kleptocrats in the UN

    Ban will be ineffective in dealing with the bureaucracy in the UN

    It is a dark day for the UN. A dark dark day for the UN.

  3. comment number 3 by: texasheat

    Mr. Ban!! Waht you say about this?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3620566.stm

    Koreans always blame someone else.

  4. comment number 4 by: Errol

    Mr Ban’s boss also says, N.Korea Nukes Won’t Upset Power Balance.

    That’s because Joseon is brandishing the Taepodong over Japan not Daehanminguk.

    Noh Mu-hyeon: “F**k you Shinzo! I’m all right!”

  5. comment number 5 by: hanasima

    All of the world know about what the government of Japan had done before World War II as well as like Hitler. Ban was concerning and worrying about that the government of Japan is trying to get a chance to have a nuclear weapon even though Abe had mentioned about non-nuclear things since they had lied several times like North Korea. Japan is criminal country.

    They even had made many experiment with live man captured from China, Korea, and some western people. It was called “MARUTA.” Don’t you think it is similar to or worse than North Korea? I think if Japan is not under USA, they would be the best terrorist in the world based on what they had done in the world history. Shame on them.

    I really support Ban. He is really going middle.

  6. comment number 6 by: sqz

    世界中のすべての人間は、核アレルギーです。
    All human beings in the world are nuclear weapon allergy.

    そもそも、北朝鮮の核兵器の脅威にどのように対抗するかの話において、「核武装論」はその一つの案でしかないのです。
    In the first place, in the discussion that how is opposed to a menace of a North Korean nuclear weapon, “a nuclear armament theory” is the one plan.
    普通なら対案を出すべきところです。
    Generally, other people should suggest other plans.
    しかし、誰もが本題を忘れ、討論そのものをタブーにしました。
    However, anyone forgot the main topic, and discussion was made a taboo..
    いまだに誰も対案を出していません。
    Nobody yet suggests other plans.

  7. comment number 7 by: tomato

    All of the world know about what the government of Japan had done before World War II as well as like Hitler. Ban was concerning and worrying about that the government of Japan is trying to get a chance to have a nuclear weapon even though Abe had mentioned about non-nuclear things since they had lied several times like North Korea. Japan is criminal country.

    correction:

    Koreans exaggerate and claim what the government of Japan had done before World War II was just like Hitler (but actually, many Korean volunteered to serve in the Imperial Army as officers, and some even participated in anti-guerilla wars in Manchuria). Ban, like any good Korean politician would do, expressed “concerns and worries” about that the government of Japan trying to get a chance to have a nuclear weapon. This is in accordance with the S Korean policy of branding Japan as a “inherently militaristic” country and brainwashing its people with lies and exaggerations about the Japanese rule so that they will hate Japan, and with that, that the government will be able to unite the badly divided people and avert their eyes from domestic corruptions and troubles. Maybe in the future when Korea is united, it will engage in a war against Japan to “punish” the “criminal” nation. God knows what the brainwashing and hatred could lead to! S Korean ultranationalsits, who fancy themselves as peace-loving, sophisticated and brainy peoples, do not seem to understand that their anti-Japan policy and thinking are actually very ethnocentric and infact racist. S Korea is becoming the trouble center of E Asia. Let’s all hope the Korean ulranationalists are defeated in future elections.

  8. comment number 8 by: GarlicBreath

    Who exactly is not ulranationalist? All Korean pols feel the same way about Japan. I hope Chung Dong Young replaces Roh. Then we can see the sunshine policy in full force. Then the end for the Kimchi axis will come.

  9. comment number 9 by: mattrosencrance

    @ Hanasima
    @ Tomato

    To suggest that the Japanese are inherently militaristic, you can’t have visited there in the last 60 years. The Japanese haven’t fired a shot in anger in as many years. It’d be like saying that the Chinese are particularly scientific, when no new science has emerged out of China for about 800 years. Believe it or not, entire cultures can change.

    You could on the other hand say that the Jews are particularly clever. No you conspiracy theorists, not for controlling the world media. Look at the scientific developments during the 19th and 20th centuries and look at how disproportionately how many Jewish names are attached to them. Also, look at how many of those Jews were lucky enough to be in tolerant Anglo cultures (or were smart enough to immigrate to tolerant Anglo cultures) that provided a fertile soil for their brilliance. So you see, Jews have been schmart for the last 200 years at least and Anglo tolerant for probably a bit longer. Hopefully both groups will keep up the good work, but it mustn’t necessarily be so.

    What I’m trying to say, other than that Hebrew and Anglo cultures rock, is that perhaps there’s a reason why the Koreans’ love affair with science was brief and their love affair with kvetching was long. You don’t have Israeli websites up talking about the continued evils of the Germans, as the Koreans do for the Japanese. Perhaps it’s because the Israelis understand that the more that they piss and moan and create bugbears out of now benign people, the more that they’re wasting effort that could have been put to something productive.

    In fact, the Japanese weren’t that nasty in Korea. They killed 17,600 actual freedom fighters in actual combat after the annexation and killed 200,000 Korean active dissenters during the 35 year annexation. This is chump change compared to what they did in Manchuria or Nanjing. When you add to the equation that Koreans fought alongside the Japanese both as officers and as conscripts, the picture widens.

    When the US defeated Japan, they also conquered Korea as part of Japan, because it was. If the US and Japan (former enemies) can become friends and the US and Germany (former enemies) can become friends and Germany and Israel (former ‘concentrators’ and ‘concentrated’) can become friends, I don’t see why one-time master (Japan) and one-time attack dog (Korea) can’t as well.

    Either Koreans are really that bad at understanding causal relationships, or they want to out-Korean the North Koreans whose “Great” Leader supposedly ousted the Japanese (yeah it had nothing to do with the US) or they want to be in sympathetic lockstep with the Chinese, while hiding the fact of how many Koreans were helping the Japanese in Manchuria and Nanjing.

    Or it could be both.

  10. comment number 10 by: mattrosencrance

    I don’t have the numbers on this, but it might stand to reason that more Koreans died fighting the Chinese and the Americans at the behest of the Japanese than died trying to liberate their own country.

    I’d love to see the numbers.

  11. comment number 11 by: ponta

    All of the world know about what the government of Japan had done before World War II as well as like Hitler.

    What Ban should be worried about is hypocrisy of Korea and Korean hypocritical education—truly evil..
    What Ban should do is to make the UN resolution to demand Korean government to apologize to the a million of civilians Korea victimized after the colonization.
    .
    hanasima
    Tell me what you know about the victims by Korea after the colonization. If you don’t know, I am afraid ou are the victim of Korean hypocritical education.

  12. comment number 12 by: Errol

    ponta Said:

    November 8, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    … I am afraid you are the victim of Korean hypocritical education.

    As a neo-Confucian society Korea developed a set of rules which although theoretically immutable did not apply under certain (myriad) circumstances. Publicly, if you broke those rules you became wangtta.

    Privately, of course, there are no rules which has led to the blossoming of all sorts of hidden corruption in Korean society as Koreans lack the self-discipline which is required when one is not in the gaze of a public set of rules.*

    Thus when a privately negative behaviour becomes public to maintain chaemyeon and the power of the seonbae the rules for certain Koreans do not apply due to a plethora of special dispensations and circumstances.

    Korea good, Japan bad. Or as George Orwell put it, “Four legs good two legs bad” morphs into “Four legs bad two legs good.”

    If one then has the temerity to “interact” (Richardson’s term) with Koreans one is accused of being patronising yada, yada, yada.

    This is the burden that non-Koreans carry in Asia (especially in Korea because of it’s “corrupted form of Confucianism”, as a Chinese diplomat described it to me) and have done since Alexander and was the reason why I quoted Kipling on another thread.

    Conversely, the same burden applies when Koreans are in Western countries. In Australia, as Matt noted on the other thread, it is most patriotic to be honest and therefore critical of one’s own country.

    But Koreans have a different style of criticism (often seen in Joseon Era soap-operas and films) which usually results in suppressed rage-jealousy culminating in going hwa-byeong or backstabbing court or love rivals, wanggta-ing the nail that sticks up and the old favourite “shooting the messenger”.**

    * Industrialised dating with booking clubs, mass-scale prostitution, bribing of government officials to get things processed or to speed up the process, spousal abuse, corporal punishment, rape and other sexual assaults, peeping tom cameras, …

    ** cf. Im Kwon-taek’s 연산일기 allegory of modern Korea, where King Yeonsan was quite fond of eliminating messengers of bad news. Yet if one raises issues about this film the usual response is, “He was crazy. Korean leaders aren’t like that”. Only for history to be repeated Pak the Dictator massacring civilians then dying in a seedy room salon, Chun and Roh Tae-woo stashing away big bucks plus other ill-doings, Kim Young-sam’s son getting jiggy with all sorts of things, Kim Dae-joong and Kim Jong-il’s joint nuclear bomb venture and his US resident sons, No Mu-hyeon not the full quid and then all the assorted hangers-on in the sinecures created by such corruption. How many room salons are owned by Korean public servants?

    This is the neo-Confucian underpinning of Noh Mu-hyeon’s support for a third (THIRD!!!!) nuclear holocaust in Japan.

    But of course, the Japanese are the bad guys. http://imdb.com/title/tt0307213/

  13. comment number 13 by: texasheat

    Hanashima:
    “All of the world know about what the government of Japan had done before World War II as well as like Hitler. Ban was concerning and worrying about that the government of Japan is trying to get a chance to have a nuclear weapon even though Abe had mentioned about non-nuclear things since they had lied several times like North Korea. Japan is criminal country.”

    This is a typical Korean B.S.
    Korean’s nuclear is a peaceful bomb and Japanese nuclear is Hitler’s kind weapon. Give me a break.

  14. comment number 14 by: tomato

    They killed 17,600 actual freedom fighters in actual combat after the annexation and killed 200,000 Korean active dissenters during the 35 year annexation

    I think the figures above comes from Korean sorces, and I bet it is bloated to the extreme. Worse than Chinese classics where warlords in the 4th century lose 1 million men in a battle and still can fight back later. And these are Chinese classics to entertain the readers.

  15. comment number 15 by: ponta

    .I don’t have the numbers on this, but it might stand to reason that more Koreans died fighting the Chinese and the Americans at the behest of the Japanese than died trying to liberate their own country.

    the number of Koreans who voluntarily applied for the Imperial Japanese army
    year……# of accepted……# of applicants…the rate of competition
    1938……406…………….2946……………..7.7
    1939……613…………….12,348……………20.1
    1940……3,060…………..84,443……………27.6
    1941…..3,208……………144,743…………..45.1
    1942…..4,077……………254,273………….,62.4
    1943…..6,300……………303,394…………..48.2
    It was in 1944 that forced mobilization took effect in Korea.
    Here is a survey of Korean voluntary worker for the army.
    It means that the number above is the number of Koreans who voluntarily applied for the Imperial Japanese army.

    The number of Korean military men and workers who died during WWⅡ

    地域…..分類…..動員…..復員…..不明又は戦没 不明又は戦没率
    Area…..classification…..mobilization…..survived…. unknown/dead…..the rate

    Korea
    total…242,341….240,159,,,,,22,182…..9.2%
    military…..116,294…..110,116…..6,178…..5.3%
    military related worker…..126,047…..110,043……16,004…..12.7%

    朝鮮人日本兵

    All of the world should know the bloody history of Korea and China after WWⅡ.. I am sure Mr Ban is going to tell it to the world as the next UN secretary general. If he is not , I guess hanasima will tell us the story if he is not hypicrite

  16. comment number 16 by: mattrosencrance

    @ tomato

    Could be.

  17. comment number 17 by: ponta

    I think the figures above comes from Korean sorces, and I bet it is bloated to the extreme.

    I am also curious on what source the number is based.

    Between 1905 and 1910, uprisings and rebellions erupted frequently throughout Korea. Japan crushed them with efficient savagery. The Koreans had few weapons, and Japan was a powerful and merciless nation. According to Japanese statistics, 14,566 Korean “rebels” were killed between July 1907 and December 1908. By 1910, when Japan formally annexed Korea, little open resistance remained in the land; and no Western nation spoke out against Japan’s seizure of the peninsula.
    http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/pd-c-01.htm

    In 1919 March Movement, according to Japanese police , 553 killed ,according to Korean sources, which is based on hearsay, 7,509 were
    Even among those arrested, there were no death sentence, most of them were released.

    I think so called story about freedom fighter is myth unless people mean by it the rebels before the annexation mentioned above or the people working under Kim il sung at Manshu. But if somebody know it better, let me know.

  18. comment number 18 by: tomato

    Hmmm…the figures are suspicious after all…

    but I’m pretty sure the US shot down 792 MiG-15s while only losing 78 F-86 Sabres in MiG Alley…

    …next time there will be no US fighter planes to rescue of the defiant nation…

  19. comment number 19 by: kojibomb

    Japan is criminal country

    No… Japan was a criminal country in WWII. They were part of the axis: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Now, Japan is one of the peace-keeper, but NK is the criminal country. Cant trust them.

    Koreans exaggerate and claim what the government of Japan had done before World War II was just like Hitler (but actually, many Korean volunteered to serve in the Imperial Army as officers, and some even participated in anti-guerilla wars in Manchuria).

    Yes, they did exaggerate and many did volunteer to serve in the Imperial Army. But, it is also true that Korea was a victim since they lost their country for about 50? years. But! Koreans should not keep thinking Japan as the ‘evil’ country because Japan compensated and apologized many times already.

    Let’s all hope the Korean ulranationalists are defeated in future elections

    They can’t. I just read about Korean political parties and found out Uri party is owning grand national party. Grand national party has to gain power in order to restore good relationship btw Japan and Korea, but GNP has done alot of horrible things in the past (using military power) that they lost many supporters including

    Kim Young-sam’s son getting jiggy with all sorts of things,

    lol getting jiggy with…

    I think so called story about freedom fighter is myth unless people mean by it the rebels before the annexation mentioned above or the people working under Kim il sung at Manshu

    I think there were some freedom fighter because there was people like An Jung-geun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Jung-geun. But… the numbers prob isn’t that big as Koreans say it is. 500…killed seems right… not 8000. Some might even be a myth since that Dokdo hero stuff was fake too.

  20. comment number 20 by: treesjess

    Ban Ki Moon needs to focus on making his own country better. For example, the image of South Korea is terrible. It has a negative image. Ban Ki-Moon needs to also educate the Koreans that the garbage goes in the garbage can. Too many Koreans litter. If you walk around in Korea, you can see trash lying all over the place, including the beaches as well. Haeundae Beach is a dump.

    Also, the way Koreans drive is terrible. They do not even obey traffic laws.

    Ban Ki-Moon, please educate the Koreans that the garbage goes in the garbage can.

  21. comment number 21 by: GarlicBreath

    Ban Ki Moon needs to focus on making his own country better.

    I hope Ban will stay away from Korean issues, but this is unlikly. Ban is Korean and must think like a Korean. He will take his orders from the hive like all Koreans. This is why Ban will promote Korean propaganda.

    Ban is useless. But as he is in the spotlight the world can see how corrupt koreans are.

    haeundae beach is smelly dirty and gross. The beach is full of cigarette butts and trash. Behind the beach is a strip of whore houses.

  22. comment number 22 by: Errol

    Ban’s regime will be interesting. Will he do the old Korean tricks of promising to do all sorts of things and saying he’s your real friend only to take years to do anything then renege on all the promises when seonbae makes the call.

    “Hi y’all little brothers Ban and Noh.”

    Ban and Noh bow deeply. 선배님 안녕하십니까?”

    “Y’all got a predikament with them furnners? Here is my 3 point plan.

    1. Nationalise Korea Exchange Bank
    2. Make one of your hubae Bank chairman
    3. Send the consulting commission to my Swiss Bank account number: Tae-po-dong 10-8.

    And send up another crate of Hennessy’s XO.”

  23. comment number 23 by: jchoi

    note: i use “western” throughout. meaning white, classsical-greece-ish ideas, american, european/rennisance/enlightenment/whatever, australian, colonialist, blah blah blah…. occidental, i guess! HAHA how ironic i only notice now, after i’ve written this enormous comment.

    wtf? it’s not like ban just “became” the sg for no reason. don’t be so narrow-minded and accuse on groundless insults. fucking errol and some others who posted earlier just shit on koreans for no reason except that errol and others are fat tubgirls. THANKS YOU OBESE AHOLES. i’m not even south korean or north korean. i’m american! anyone, fat aussies or not, can see this is just a bunch of haters and fuckups who are stranded on korea (or some other korea related situation) because they’re too fucking stupid to go back to their mothers. not just this post i’m writing about. nothing in this blog i’ve read so far, and i’ve read several posts and the accompanying racist red-neck comments, was logical, rational or anything you purport to be. what i see every fourth post or so is some pseudo-rationalism, but instead of adhering to the process throughout, your only accomplishment is to look like some kind of western-imperialist bloggers… i have nothing against with decartes and co., they were geniuses, but i hate when some racist fuck heads think they are more reasonable than the korean media or general korean racist sentiments because they think they know what a “real” (decidedly Western) debate is. FUCK NO. why do you automatically think that koreans see they way westerners do? imagine! koreans came from thousands and thousand of years ago… until recently, race was the same as country! and other ideas, profoundly un-Western, dictate korean attitudes and behavior… while classical reasoning can be argued to be closer to objectiveness than, what? typical racist korean thought process when thinking of japan? but western “reasoning” still comes with a lot of gross baggage that other countires, korea and otherwise, cant accept. you too. its not technically a national thing, but DEFINITELY “whites” in general tend to think a certain way because they mostly come from white cultures… for e.g. virtue of hard work, true love, snarkiness, etc. what can i point out? there are a lot of groundless “western” ideals that affect society and behavior, just like koreans. look at iraq and the nk/sk divide, among many similar examples. democracy idea is quite western! both in origin and in popular idea, it’s perceived as decidedly western. stick to the plan slsh don’t give up ideals are also highly prized attributes in western culture, but they’re suited to selfish missions (like territorial wars!) than to world peace and freedom from war and disorder. definitely bad for un secgen.

    … so? what is the point of my comment?:
    you racists don’t know shit about koreans and korean sentiments. actually, neither do i! since i’ve lived in la since i was born. but ANYONE who comes to this site can see that there is no objectivity only gross racism from a bunch of fatties it seems. i cant tell who is japanese or what, but basically i see only whites or westernized non-whites have these stupid south-western turducken attitudes about korean sentiments and ZERO knowledge about debate and reason that even kids need to understand. and the one japanese i saw for sure was ponta in the enormous hyomilri or w/e post. i hate that guy but not as nearly much as the ch—— something bitch and a bunch of other fuck ups…. also the way you gang up on on JK handle (almost a year ago! …but i read it only a few mintutes ago so why does it matter when it was written? since i’m writing about racist attitudes in the blog?) was SO FUCKED.

    OK the eventual point is: don’t act like you are rational or objective in your reasoning (i’m not talking about personal opinion at all), BECAUSE YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT REASONING IS.

    all you want to do is spit out gross racist comments defending japan and australia and whatever shit (el MUNDO, no?) because koreans dont include nasty foreigners easily and you call that barbarious? GTH BITCH. if you want racist ideas, why do whites use forks? stabbing all their food like BARBARIANS. and why do japanese look so ugly? WHY? even if it’s not really barbarious behaviors???

    anyway. personally i have nothing against japan or whites or western history. even “ponta” i recognize from TnO, if thats what it’s alluding to. but gay pricks like you i have a BIG PROBLEM WITH.

    note: why did i have to say “gay” pricks? forget that! i have gay friends, and if i associate them with you, it will be bad. YOU ARE BAD. GO BACK TO YOUR MOTHERS. STOP PISSING ON KOREA AND CALLING IT OBJECTIVE. GO TO HELL. (IN A NON CHRISTIAN-SATANIST DEROGOTORY WAY.) WANK OFF TO A GIANT JPEG OF THIS COMMENT.

    OK replies I AM READY. BRING IT ON MUTHAFUCKA. but being a student i dont know if can reply soon. if i cant, i will be back i bet, because this site pisses THE FUCK OUT OF ME. so dont expect i’ll be gone forever… you pigs.

  24. comment number 24 by: Matt

    jchoi, I don’t know what “groundless insults” you are talking about. I just posted based on what I read of Mr Ban’s publicly stated opinions. I do not know why you are ranting about western (white) imperialism either, as I am fine with Korean independence, and I want the US army out of Korea ASAP.

  25. comment number 25 by: CasinoRoyale

    Matt,

    This site is pretty cool. You’ve got great presentation, a loyal commentary base, etc. You’ve done a great job. Maybe you can give me some php and html pointers some time. I’m interested in starting my own blog sometime soon.

    On this issue, I think we may not see eye to eye, but please do not be offended. I’m just posting some ideas is all.

    There are a few things in your comments that I think are inaccurate and are a little off base. I’ll mention them.

    Asia-Watch reports that South Korean foreign minister and next UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon thinks that elected politicians in democratic Japan should not be able to express their opinions or debate an issue like nuclear policy.

    I’m sure you’ll take no offense at this, but with this comment it looks like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. If you believe that Japanese MPs have a right to debate nuclear policy, then it stands to reason that Ban Ki-Moon, as the Secretary General of the UN, also has the right to express his opinions on the issue as well.

    I agree, and I would also add that it is extremely ironic that Ban should describe Japan as being “one of the most significant UN member states” when it was Ban that led the charge to prevent Japan from getting a seat on the UN security council.

    I think Ban’s assessment of the issue was dead on. Japan’s becoming a member of the security council would likely necessitate a renunciation of its “war clause.” If you look at at a list of the current members of the security council, you’ll notice that it matches up directly with a list of the world’s top arms manufacturers and developers. There is already a great deal of tension in the region and if Japan were to further rigidify its military posture, Northeast Asia could become embroiled in an arms race. Northeast Asia is already militarized enough. It doesn’t need further military tensions.

    I mean, any nation that would pursue its own nuclear weapons when it is already under the protection of the world’s most powerful nuclear umbrella is acting in an irrational manner, right? (Remember the Lankov Article)

    Ironically, Japan supported Ban’s bid to become the UN secretary general. I am guessing there was some sort of back room deal in which the Koreans would tone down the anti-Japanism in exchange for support for Ban becoming the UN secretary general

    I’ll take your bet!

    I’m pretty sure you’re wrong though here, Matt. As you pointed out, Japan is not a permanent member of the security council, and so its power to yea or nay Ban’s bid is pretty limited. Sure, Japan is the second largest financier of the UN, but its permanent security council membership that matters most. Ban had the support of the United States, and this is really what counted in his being elected.

    Some ally

    Allies, don’t always see eye to eye. Yeah, there are some disturbing developments occurring on the peninsula right now, but we gotta remember that both the U.S. and Korea are being led by really unpopular presidents. During the Kim Yong Sam administration, Korea wanted the U.S. to bomb the North’s nucelar reactors, while Clinton wanted to negotiate In two years, we’ll probably see the situation reversed again, with the US wanting negotiations and South Korea wanting to whip out the stick.

  26. comment number 26 by: Matt

    I’m sure you’ll take no offense at this, but with this comment it looks like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. If you believe that Japanese MPs have a right to debate nuclear policy, then it stands to reason that Ban Ki-Moon, as the Secretary General of the UN, also has the right to express his opinions on the issue as well.

    Hi. Actually, Ban was not giving any opinion except that Japan should not be able to debate the issue internally. Ban is entitled to an opinion but he should avoid sticking his nose in until Japan has officially changed its policy. Comments from one or two politicians that do not determine national policy does not warrant rash remarks from the Secretary General delegate. People in a democracy have a right to debate issues, and consider their options, even extreme options. Debate is an essential part of policy making in a democracy. Perhaps Ban would prefer the type of decision making seen in North Korea.

    I think Ban’s assessment of the issue was dead on. Japan’s becoming a member of the security council would likely necessitate a renunciation of its “war clause.” If you look at at a list of the current members of the security council, you’ll notice that it matches up directly with a list of the world’s top arms manufacturers and developers. There is already a great deal of tension in the region and if Japan were to further rigidify its military posture, Northeast Asia could become embroiled in an arms race. Northeast Asia is already militarized enough. It doesn’t need further military tensions.

    I do not know if joining the security council would “necessitate” a renunciation of Japans peace constitution. Japan could conduct itself at the council within its constitution.

    I mean, any nation that would pursue its own nuclear weapons when it is already under the protection of the world’s most powerful nuclear umbrella is acting in an irrational manner, right? (Remember the Lankov Article)

    Japan is not pursuing nuclear weapons. A few politicians tried to start a debate about whether it was necessary or not. That is it. The Prime Minister of Japan declared that his position is the same as it has always been, and that has nothing to do with Ban’s opinion.

    I’ll take your bet!

    I’m pretty sure you’re wrong though here, Matt. As you pointed out, Japan is not a permanent member of the security council, and so its power to yea or nay Ban’s bid is pretty limited. Sure, Japan is the second largest financier of the UN, but its permanent security council membership that matters most. Ban had the support of the United States, and this is really what counted in his being elected.

    If Japan was good at diplomacy, it would reduce its contributions to the UN. However, Japan is not good at diplomacy. They do not use the stick, and will not even withhold the carrot.

    Allies, don’t always see eye to eye. Yeah, there are some disturbing developments occurring on the peninsula right now, but we gotta remember that both the U.S. and Korea are being led by really unpopular presidents. During the Kim Yong Sam administration, Korea wanted the U.S. to bomb the North’s nucelar reactors, while Clinton wanted to negotiate In two years, we’ll probably see the situation reversed again, with the US wanting negotiations and South Korea wanting to whip out the stick.

    I am pretty sure it was Clinton wanting to bomb, and Kim Yong Sam rejecting the idea. Anyway, you had better not be the commenter formerly known as YoungRocco, or I will have Darin nuke you.

  27. comment number 27 by: Ocebey

    Matt
    Why do you think he could be YoungRocco? I’ve not found him to be a tenth as biased on theses issues that youngrocco would be (or he’s got ninja skills to hide himself and is approaching in a real calm manner in a attempt to conquer the blog and then the world!!!)
    At worst he’s got not totally accurate info.

  28. comment number 28 by: ponta

    OK the eventual point is: don’t act like you are rational or objective in your reasoning (I’m not talking about personal opinion at all), BECAUSE YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT REASONING IS.

    I am glad to hear at least some comments look rational or objective to you.

    But if you really believe the person you are talking to do not know what reasoning is, what is the point of your comment?

    Are you trying to convince the reader by the argument?
    It this is the case, you presuppose the reader knows how to reason correctly, which contradicts your assumption.

    Or are you just emotionally shouting out loud the meaningless words?
    If this is the case, i wonder which side does not know what the reasoning is,
    you or the reader?

    Or are you trying to make the reader to take the attitude that you want him/her to take in a non-argument style similar to gesture, dancing, passionate drama. etc?
    It this is the case, I am not sure if the way you wrote attained your purpose effectively.
    .

    There is a cultural difference. But in the international politics there are rules to follow. For instance, you have right to speech. Thus Ban has right to speech.
    (Let’s put aside the fact his status imposes some restriction on his speech in a sense he should make an “appropriate ” speech as UN secretary general )
    But what he is ultimately claiming is that Japan has no right to speech as to whether Japan go nuclear or not. Thus his speech implies the violation of the rule to be followed. (Note that Japan is not claim she goes nuclear)

    I am not sure if my argument so far is ultimately correct or not. But I am sure understanding of Korean sentiment does not affect the validity of the argument so far. But let me know if it does affect the validity. I am curious.
    .
    Some Koreans came and complained that this blog was filled with negative facts about Korea. but I wonder why they don’t criticize Koreans for making up only negative story about Japan and USA. I know there are Koreans who object to, e.g.,.,, anti-Japan-ism and anti-America-ism. But they remain silent for some reason, I think they should speak out. I think this blog is valuable in that it presents a point of view that few Koreans dare to point out out loud about Korean society.

    I think objectivity and rationality is the product of inter-subjective activity, in particular through talking to each other. The comment section is open on this blog. But once you comment on the blog, you risk the criticism from others..I think that is fair; though, I am not sure if this kind of fairness fits with Korean sentiments.

    .

  29. comment number 29 by: jchoi

    without actually reading the response (or plural if that happened), you’re right. my first post has almost nothing to do with ban, only with this gay ass site. especially racist comments to the post from racist… what? australian? americans? NOOOO koreans and japanese-japanese almost. only a bunch of people who love japan for no reason.

  30. comment number 30 by: jchoi

    oknm i’ve read the posts.

    jchoi, I don’t know what “groundless insults” you are talking about. I just posted based on what I read of Mr Ban’s publicly stated opinions. I do not know why you are ranting about western (white) imperialism either, as I am fine with Korean independence, and I want the US army out of Korea ASAP.

    – groundless insults = “koreans are “groundless insult”.”
    – mr. ban makes a mostly justified comment (to avoid nuclear arms race related tensions) and you say he is anti-japan.
    – i was ranting about white imperialism because i was mad, but it had nothing to do with korean independence except a small portion of one sentence. (i had to look for it!) again, you pick what you want to see from where it doesn’t exist.

    are you reasoning or are you retarded?

    i was saying that that most of the stuff on this site purports to be rational, logical analysis of various situations, events, etc. but in fact they are not objective reasoning at all, just racist ideas about koreans. in your stupidity, you missed exactly what was bolded out, easy to copy/pase, but you just could not understand what it says.

    OK the eventual point is: don’t act like you are rational or objective in your reasoning (I’m not talking about personal opinion at all), BECAUSE YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT REASONING IS.

    you see? “don’t even try to logically prove *anti-korea statement* because you are too retarded to do it (logical proving or even just analysis) right.”

    But what he is ultimately claiming is that Japan has no right to speech as to whether Japan go nuclear or not.

    if you want to argue that out, OK. but tensions are very high about nuclear issue, and no one really wants japan to even think about going nuclear or change it’s position or anything like that. but if you want to argue for the right to discuss in peace, go ahead. but not my main point and i already stopped following this nuclear issue a long time ago, so my mind set is outdated.

    I am not sure if my argument so far is ultimately correct or not. But I am sure understanding of Korean sentiment does not affect the validity of the argument so far. But let me know if it does affect the validity. I am curious.

    … what is your agrument? about ban? or somthing else.
    korean sentiments, i was comparing korean sentiments to classical reasoning and some typically western virturous sentiments and mindset. koreans are racist. korea has mostly only koreans in it. etc. but i guess you missed that it was just a part of when i say that only americans think like americans, etc. very typical behavior, i see.

    I think this blog is valuable in that it presents a point of view that few Koreans dare to point out out loud about Korean society.

    i think this blog is catering to depressed foreigners who are living in korea or some other situation like that. they need to rant about korea between themselves, but it spreads to other english-speakers as well instead of spreading into the korean-speakers. i think it is not valuable because all occidentalism.org does is spread korean hate and the idea that koreans hate japan (which is mostly true but you find the idea where doesn’t exist as well as where it doesn’t exist, and you spread the idea to non-koreans who are not familiar with korean society or korean media… all you want to do is stop making people buy korean cars? i don’t see what is so direct and valuable about this sites existence as you argue.

    I think objectivity and rationality is the product of inter-subjective activity, in particular through talking to each other.

    -_-!!!!!!!!!!!1 you are wrong. objectivity and rationality should be able to stand up on it’s own like philosophy. it isn’t a group project where we can all debate and compromise. either is is or isn’t. true or not true. doesn’t matter about personal opinions. but debate and collective speculation help to discover the truth, even if it isn’t the existence that is the truth.

    The comment section is open on this blog. But once you comment on the blog, you risk the criticism from others..I think that is fair; though, I am not sure if this kind of fairness fits with Korean sentiments.

    what did i say? something like BRING IT ON MUTHAFUCKA. i don’t think koreans are justified to have giant collective racist sentiments for japan. but only stupid shit thinks this site is fair criticism. retaliation? i could accept that kind of self-statement. but not fair criticism that is justified to exist as a noble voice that gives hope to japanese that korea hates (or anything like that!).

  31. comment number 31 by: jchoi

    btw “ru reasoning or are you retarded” is response to ponta

  32. comment number 32 by: Fantasy

    JChoi:

    Please do not make a fool of yourself.

  33. comment number 33 by: GarlicBreath

    jchoi Said:

    without actually reading the response (or plural if that happened),

    Why not read the responses? Or are you just interested in sounding like a petulant girl

    you’re right.

    I know.

    my first post has almost nothing to do with ban,

    If you dont want to talk about the OP then shut up.

    only with this gay ass site

    .

    I think you are projecting

    especially racist comments to the post from racist… what? australian? americans? NOOOO koreans and japanese-japanese almost. only a bunch of people who love japan for no reason.

    Are not Japanese and Koreans the same race? Where in this whole discussion is anything said about a love for Japan. There is none and even if there was, there is nothing wrong with that. However you clearly do hate japan as does your kin.

    koreans hate japan (which is mostly true

  34. comment number 34 by: ponta

    jchoi
    Thanks.
    I hold your skimming power in high esteem.

    also the way you gang up on on JK handle (almost a year ago! …but i read it only a few mintutes ago

    I am surprised you know JK. He is an old pal of mine, he was a good guy, but regrettably he has a bad habit of confusing the discussion. Might it be appropriate to call him a Troll in English?
    Look at what JK wrote ,And he made up a fake story about private life of Gerry .
    As a result, he was banned.
    on the thread whose title was “Gerry Bevers writes about Dokdo/Takeshima”.

    jchoi said,

    i’m not even south korean or north korean. i’m american!

    In general, an American do not give a shit about dokdo.I was surprised that this thread was the first for you to read on this blog; .And the title suggest no racism.
    And the comment in which JK was banned was after more than 900 comments. And you read it only in a few minutes.!!! And after reading it you call the blog racist? I am sorry if JK’s comments made you think this site was racist, but don’t worry he was banned; he won’t come back again unless he comes disguised.

    jchoi said

    if you want to argue that out, OK. but tensions are very high about nuclear issue, and no one really wants japan to even think about going nuclear or change it’s position or anything like that. but if you want to argue for the right to discuss in peace, go ahead. and i already stopped following this nuclear issue a long time ago, so my mind set is outdated.

    What is the point of my going ahead when you mind set is outdated?

    don’t even try to logically prove *anti-korea statement* because you are too retarded to do it (logical proving or even just analysis) right.

    Okay, so your claim is I am too retarded to do it. Right? On what ground are you claiming?

    i was comparing korean sentiments to classical reasoning and some typically western virturous sentiments and mindset. koreans are racist. korea has mostly only koreans in it. etc. but i guess you missed that it was just a part of when i say that only americans think like americans, etc. very typical behavior, i see.

    ????

    i think it is not valuable because all occidentalism.org does is spread korean hate and the idea that koreans hate japan (which is mostly true but you find the idea where doesn’t exist as well as where it doesn’t exist, and you spread the idea to non-koreans who are not familiar with korean society or korean media… all you want to do is stop making people buy korean cars? i don’t see what is so direct and valuable about this sites existence as you argue.

    Is this blog spreading Korean hate? Only Koreans can spread Korean hate, can’t they?
    Do all of Korea hate Japan? Hmmm, many kypo on this blog said that was not the case. Were they lying?
    Wait!
    jchoi said

    you racists don’t know shit about koreans and korean sentiments. actually, neither do i! since i’ve lived in la since i was born.

    You said you don’t know Koreans but you know they hate Japan? Are you lying?
    Suppose , as you said, that Koreans hate Japan. What is wrong with telling the truth? Knowing that truth make people stop buying Korean cars? Hmmm—very difficult to understand. Is it “Korean reasoning” you were talking about?
    Well for my part I don’t think all the Koreans hate Japan. Maybe many young Koreans do hate Japan but that is because of the misinformation they get from school, media etc. it is sad. And this blog helps people understand the problem.

    objectivity and rationality should be able to stand up on it’s own like philosophy. it isn’t a group project where we can all debate and compromise. either is is or isn’t. true or not true. doesn’t matter about personal opinions. but debate and collective speculation help to discover the truth, even if it isn’t the existence that is the truth.

    I mostly agree except I don’t believe in the transcendental Reality on its own neutral to any language that corresponds to the Truth.

    i don’t think koreans are justified to have giant collective racist sentiments for japan.

    I am glad to hear that. I recommend you to speak it out loud when you find a Korean racist.

    but only stupid shit thinks this site is fair criticism. retaliation? i could accept that kind of self-statement. but not fair criticism that is justified to exist as a noble voice that gives hope to japanese that korea hates (or anything like that!).

    I don’t think anybody here consider himself speaking a noble voice, though it might sound noble to you.
    It is a reader who judges whether an specific post is fair or not
    You should give reasons why a particular post is not a fair criticism in a comment section. You criticize the post. And then other reader judge your comment.
    If you just shout out, the reader will think you are stupid.
    If you reason very well, the reader will be impressed.
    If your criticism of the post is well argued, there is something wrong with the post. That is all. Thanks.

    .

  35. comment number 35 by: GarlicBreath

    Well put Ponta. I must say that I think you are brilliant.

    Occidentalims faces an enormous challenge in spreading the truth when millions of Koreans and paper citizens (anti-American/Japanese kyopos) like BJ-Choi are brainwashed into the belief that Koreans are the worlds best at this or first in that. To the likes of BJchoi anything less then groveling, like what that cross-dressing whitey-tighty sniffer Kushibo did is considered a racist insult.

    I for one only seek the truth, and sadly with regards to Korea the truth is very very ugly and smells like kimchi. As far as I can tell almost nothing that I read by the Korean media is true. occidentalism should win a noble prize!

    Lastly, Banki Moon will most likely end up other Korean frauds like Hwang woo suck. He is already proven to be incompetent corrupt and biased.

  36. comment number 36 by: chul_soo

    hello garlicbreath

    ur posts are funny (in a good way) and offensive. it is amazing that u didnt get banned yet. what is more amazing is that i am the only person who finds ur posts funny and offensive.

    yours truly
    chul_sue kim

  37. comment number 37 by: Matt

    If any more people find him really offensive, I will ban him. That last post he wrote was pretty personal.

  38. comment number 38 by: Ken

    Han KiBun (like Pumpkin) who is living in the suite room of one of the most expensive hotel revealed the stupidity as expected.
    He repelled the request from Taiwan for study of joining to UN in the name of Taiwan with stating Taiwan is the part of PROC.
    This pumpkin guy is mistaking himself as the president of the world, isn’t he?
    Japan noticed her disapproval of his statement to UN secretary office as follows.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070907-00000155-mai-int
    Good job!