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Best 2006 soccer article yet

June 26th, 2006 . by Matt

Ruminations in Korea

Jeff from Ruminations in Korea does the best write up yet of the controversy about the Korean teams loss to Switzerland. Here is a taster –

1. The average Korea is completely clueless about the technical rules of the game.
2. The average Korea doesn’t care about the rules and just expects to win at all costs.
3. If Korea loses, then it must be someone else’s fault.
4. Koreans don’t stop to consider that that one call (ultimately correct) did not affect their standing in the World Cup finals in any way, shape or form.
5. It is unfortunate when referees follow the rules if it means a call against Korea.

Read the rest of ‘The Dream is Dead! Let the Whining Begin!’ on Jeffs site.


45 Responses to “Best 2006 soccer article yet”

  1. comment number 1 by: Gerry-Bevers

    I found the followind Dong-A Ilbo article especially silly:

    “A Biased Referee Deserves a Red Card”

  2. comment number 2 by: ponta

    I found the article suggestive;Even if Japan won at ICJ about Dokdo,Korea would not follow the rule.ICJ is biased and wrong.

  3. comment number 3 by: KapSin

    Korean national teams need to be banned from a few World Cups or Olympics before they learn to behave.

  4. comment number 4 by: Matt

    Korean national teams need to be banned from a few World Cups or Olympics before they learn to behave.

    LOL, that is quite harsh, KapSin. I think in this case it is the fans (well, not really since I doubt that most of the protesters are really interested in soccer) misbehaving, not the players.

  5. comment number 5 by: Gerry-Bevers

    FIFA has analyzed the video of the Korea-Switzerland match and determined that there was no offsides. Here is a good freeze-frame of the moment the ball was kicked.

    http://kr.sports.yahoo.com/fifaworldcup/v2/cms/news/newsview.php?c=NEAL&u=2006062716344925394

  6. comment number 6 by: Rose

    I find it really interesting that Japanese and korean behave so much differently when it comes to facing a loss.

    Japenese would generally acccept the loss quickly and it is often themselves on which they blame, unless there really was something really unfair about the loss.

    Koreans would not accept the loss and it is almost always other than themselves on which they blame.

    Here’s my hypothesis as it relates to history after WWII.

    After the WWII, Japanese accepted the loss and blamed themselves for getting involved in the war.
    I often wondered why there are so many left-wing, anti-Japanese sort of people in Japan.
    I understand that they can be anti-war but most of them are often anti-Japanese. That kind of people still believe that Japanese killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese people in Nanjing. They feel so guilty and they swear they would do anything to apologize to Chinese and Koreans (in other instances) for something that actually did not happen, at least at the magnitude that they firmly believe.
    To me, they are crazy but looking at Japanese as it comes to facing a loss, it explains why there was/is a room for anti-Japanese activists to do their business in Japan.
    They are so wide-spread that most of Japanese media is heavyly influenced by them.

    Koreans, on the other hand, would not accept their loss as it is and look for ways to completely avoid it or start blaming other people.

    In the case of WWII, it was the Japanese on which they blamed.
    I strongly believe there were a lot more of good things done to Korea during Japan’s colonization times and there are enough evidence to prove that.

    Now in Korea, Koreans blame Koreans who supported Japanese during the war time as traitors. To me, that’s riduculous.
    In my childhood, my parents often told us children stories about when they were still children in the war time.
    Things like they had no food to eat, how scary it was when B-29 attacked Tokyo from the air at night, how many friends and relatives had killed.

    At least they survived but there were millions who were killed in the war.
    What I want to say here is that, it was like that everywhere back then and I seriously wonder if Koreans mistakenly think it was only Koreans who had hard times back then.
    Without Japan’s involvement back then I wonder if they would have their own country right now.

    Japan lost the WWII and we accept that, that’s why we seldom, if any, talk about what the war could actually be…a racial war.
    Now we live in this world living in our own country; Japan for Japenese and Korea for Koreans, respectively.
    We take it for granted but who knows what could have happened to Asia if no one did anything to fight back.
    I don’t want to get too racial here but we Asians may exist only as slaves with no homelands.

    Do Koreans think they could sustain their independence as the eventual result because of some anti-Japanese Koreans who did not fight the war in the war time?
    Do they really think it is because they have been wackily anti-Japanese after the war to the present time?

    I don’t think so.

    All Japanese and Koreans should be grateful to the all the Japanese and Korean soldiers and others who fought the war. Without them, I don’t think I would be able to see Japan and Korea as they exist today.

    Well, this is only my opinion but I think I found a reason why Koreans became so anti-Japanese after the WWII when there are so many good things done to Korea by Japanese. Koreans would do any thing to avoid a loss competely or justify a loss by blaming on the others.

    I hope they get better one day.

  7. comment number 7 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Koreans are now claiming that there was an offsides just previous to the one being talked about above. Here is the link to the video:

    Offsides?

    I do not know the rules very well, so can anyone tell me if that would have been considered an offsides?

  8. comment number 8 by: sqz

    Gerry-Bevers

    詳細は、FIFA公式ホームページのルールブックを読んでください。
    For the details, please read the rulebook which there is in FIFA formula homepage.
    60頁にオフサイドが図解されています。
    There is illustration of offside in 60 page.

    ビデオを見ましたが、Gerry-Beversの言うように、主張が変わってますね。
    I watched a video, but, according to Gerry-Bevers, the claim of Korea changed.
    唖然としました。
    I was dumfounded.
    オフサイドポジションかどうかは微妙。
    It is delicate whether there was an attacker in an offside position.
    けど、それに対して線審は旗をあげてませんね。
    However, a linesman did not put up a offside flag for it.

  9. comment number 9 by: JK

    I don’t follow soccer (to most Americans, watching the grass on our lawns grow is more interesting). But are you gonna use this for yet another Korea-bashing thread, Matt? Geez, get a life.

    Rose, the colonization of Korea was wrong, plain and simple. Quit being one of those Japanese who justify what Japan did before and during WWII.

  10. comment number 10 by: Rose

    JK,

    Rose, the colonization of Korea was wrong, plain and simple. Quit being one of those Japanese who justify what Japan did before and during WWII.

    In what aspect, you say the colonization of Korea by Japan was wrong?
    We have already seen many of what Koreans claim what Japanese had done wrong proved not very factual.

    If you are a Korean or ethnic Korean, you would probably say that anyway but you should know that what you believe in is what your brain was fed when you grew up, and it may not be true at all.

    To me, what is going on in Korea in general as it relates to anti-Japanese sentiment, they are crazy.

    By the same token, I see a lot of anti-Japanese Japanese in Japan who would lable patriotic opinions as nationalistic and right-winged. I doubt they would have any patriotic thoughts…their thinking is so distorted and simply insane.

    It’d be easy to just think of them as crazy, insane, and evil but what would that bring to us?

    My previous post is my attempt to see those crazy people both in Korea and Japan as something that I can understand and relate to.

    I think it is safe to say Koreans have a tendency to deny anything that’s related to their loss, whether is it a sport or debate.

    On the other hand, Japanese would do thier best to win but once they lose they would accept the loss as it is.
    In the case of after WWII, we had to swallow the pride and accept whatever American GHQ wanted us to believe.
    We had to accept somewhat masochistic historical views regardless of whether those were factual or not.

    It’s been over 60 years and what we had to believe has caused us a lot of mess. I think it would be good idea to revisit the distorted history and correct whatever is necessary to reset and reboot.

    We all know that how things can be distorted and/or misinterpreted in the process when one would tell a certain thing the other, and that one tells the other person, and so forth.
    We have done that emotionally for over 60 years since the finale of the WWII and when I see the current situation of both Japan and Korea, things seem very wrong.

    At this rate, both Korea and Japan may not exist 100 years later from now and China would have eaten us dead or alive.
    If that’s what Koreans want, just believe in whatever you believe. I guess it is encoded in your DNA to go back and become servants/slaves of China and live happily.

  11. comment number 11 by: kpforce

    Well I think Rose and few poster in this blog got lots of prejudice against Korean. I know there might be a exaggeration of what happen during Japanese colonization period but because of some distorted confession it doesn’t mean what they did was completely fiction.

    First of all, what makes you think massacre in Nanjing was made up? I personally have Chinese friend whose grandmother was crucially beaten and abused during Nanjing masscre. If you say she is lying and exaggerating there is nothing I can say about it, but certainly that shouldn’t be excuse.

    Second, in what extent Japan help developing modern Korea?

    I always hear few Japanese who argued that Japan help Korea to be a modern city. Yes I do agree in certain extent but it was only during 1930-1940’s. Also, you have to realize that during 1940’s 85% of Korean manufacure factories were located on North Korea and even these factories were nearly vanished during Korean war because of American air force attack. So did you see any Japanese built factories that help building modern Korea in 1950’s? If you can find a any article please send me to Jhbae@uci.edu

    I am graduate student at UCI, major in East Asian study and we are currently on reserch regarding post WWII period in East Asia, so if you can find legitimate and reliable facts regarding this issue I would gladly use in my research paper. However, don’t be emotional like what rose say

    ‘I guess it is encoded in your DNA to go back and become servants/slaves of China and live happily.’

    If you are truly educated and you think you are not like angry and emotional nationalist Korean or Chinese do not act same way Mr.Rose otherwise you look like just one of them from third person point of view.

  12. comment number 12 by: ponta

    Dennis L. McNamara

    “…McNamara makes the case that Korea’s post-1965 economic success and its politial economy is inexplicable without understanding the colonial legacy. This argument is a corrective to the existing literature on colonialism in Korea, and his case studies have much to contribute to the study of colonial history.” Meredith Woo-Cumings, Journal of Asian and African Studies

    Carter J. Eckert

    The author (of Offspring of Empire argues, that Japanese “(c)olonialism…for better or worse…was the catalyst and cradle of industrial development in Korea…”. Using the example of two brothers, Kim Songsu and Kim Yonsu, Eckart reveals a rough portrait of middle-class life in pre-and-Occupation-era Korea. Wading through economic statistics, newspaper clippings, boardroom minutes, and interviews, the author also contends against nationalistic, whether South Korean (“sprouts theory”) or North Korean, theories of Korean development.review offspring of the empire

    David S. Landes

    [T]he best colonial master of all time has been Japan, for no ex-colonieshave done so well as (South) Korea and Taiwan, where annual growth rates per head from 1950 to 1973 exceeded those of the advanced industrial nations・・・This achievement reflects in my opinion the culture of these societies:the structure, work values, sense of purpose.・・・・These values were already there under Japanse rule, partly in reaction to it, and showed in the response to profit opportunities whenever the alien master gave the native some working room.But the postcolonial sucess also testifies the colonial legacy: the ecnomic rationality of the japanese Administration, which undertook in the colonies “the superbly sucessful modernization effort which Japan itself had undertaken.
    To be sure,, the inhabitants of Korea and Taiwan would not agree with this.They remember tyranny, torture, and abuse—memories embittered by an “in your face” Japanese refusal of regret or remorse. Remorse for what? The system worked.Besides,

    Japaen was as responsible in its policies toward its colonial populations ….as was Belgium in the Congo,France in Indo-China, Holland in the East Indies, or Germany,Italy, Spain, or Portugal in Africa.And in all fairness, it can be argued, it is against these other colonial situations, rather than against some theoretical utopia, that Japan’s colonial efforts should be judged.

    The world belongs to those with a clear consience, something Japan has ha in near-unanimous abundance.p437 wealth and poverty of nations

    Bruce Cuming

    Q Isn’t it true that 80 to 90 percent of what the Japanese built was destroyed during the Korean War?

    A ・・・the bombing in South Korea and the destruction of facilities was much, much less than North Korea. Your argument works perfectly for North Korea, which was cleaned like a slate by American bombing. But nonetheless, any engineer will tell you that if you have a rail bed that has been bombed, it’s much easier to repair it than to build it from scratch, and all through the bombing that went on for three years in the North, the North Koreans kept the railways running.

    If the Japanese left nothing, why is the colonial central government building only being torn down now, in the 1990s? Why is the Blue House, which the Japanese governor-general and successive South Korean presidents used for their presidential mansion, only being torn down now? Why is the Seoul railway station still standing? Why are all these colonial buildings there?

    Q whatever might have been built by the Japanese, there were lots of Koreans who were running them, who knew all the nuts and bolts. And I think that the Japanese did that for them, they trained a number of Koreans to run the railroads.

    A ・・・it isn’t just the railways, it’s lots of other places. Koreans are a talented people, and in the context of a fifty-year imperial experience, lots of them saw the virtue of going to Japan to get an education. Much of the postwar South Korean elite got an education like that

    Bruce coming

    There was, for Angus Hamilton, no question of the superiority of Korean living conditions, both urban and rural, to those of China, if not Japan. “Seoul,” he wrote, “was the first city in East Asia to have electricity, trolley cars, water, telephone, and telegraph systems all at the same time.” Most of these systems were installed and run by Americans. The Seoul Electric Light Company, the Seoul Electric Trolley Company, the Seoul Fresh Spring Water Company, were all American firms. At the turn of the century Korean imports from the U.S. included Standard Oil Company kerosene, Richmond Gem cigarettes, California fruit and wine, Eagle Brand milk, Armour canned meats, Crosse and Blackwell canned foods, and so on. Hamilton concluded that the period since the opening of the country in the 1870s had afforded Koreans countless opportunities to select for themselves such institutions as may be calculated to promote their own welfare. This is powerful evidence supporting the Korean claim that their route to modernity was not facilitated by Japan, but derailed and hijacked. Still, note the indexes that the American Hamilton chooses to highlight: electricity, telephones, trolleys, schools, consumption of American exports, and cleanliness. If we find that Japan brought similar facilities to Seoul and Taipei, do we place them on the ledger of colonialism or modernization? The Korean answer is colonialism; the Japanese and Taiwanese answer is modernization.Bruce Cumings

    (About Nanjin,I don’t know what to say about the testimony of the grandmother of your friend.
    But if you are a graduate student,you should know better than to base your theroy on the hearsay you have heard.I for one think Nanjin massacre was cruel,but it is also true Chinese mde up the story.)

    I think the colonization was wrong in the sense any colonization was wrong.And the times was hard on Koreans as well as Japanese.

    But Korean distortion of history is much worse than Japanese extreme rightists.You might want to study the culture of han恨 in Korea to analyze why they distort history.

  13. comment number 13 by: kpforce

    about Nanjing masscre this is what my research partner found. look on page 33/54
    http://www.ipc.ac.nz/research/pdfs/sebata_op_009.pdf

    and
    http://www.east-asian-history.net/textbooks/MJ/war_views.htm

  14. comment number 14 by: sqz

    ここの話題は、韓国対スイス戦ではなかったのか?なんで日本や中国が出て来るんだよ!(-_-メ
    Is not this topic a match Korea vs Switzerland?
    Why is Japan or China related?

  15. comment number 15 by: ponta

    Kforce.
    Your links just show you have just began the study of Nanjin Massacre and Eastasisa.
    Keep studying.Good luck
    (If you really want to know Nanjin massacre, probably you need to study Japanese, it is Japan which has more scholars about this massacre than any other countris.)
    By the way , what is your ethinicity?
    I am Japanese.

  16. comment number 16 by: helical

    Hello all, I’ve been a reader for a while, but finally decided to register.
    And my first post is on a comment thread that seems to have gone off on many tangents, if not one 🙂

    ponta,
    I don’t think what ethnicity people are really matters here.
    Being one or the another doesn’t influence what they have to say, right?

  17. comment number 17 by: zerosum

    This blog is so pro-Jap and so anti-Korean it makes me laugh. I bet that most of you bitching and whining about Koreans probably are foreigners living in Korea. If you are so sick and tired about Koreans getting upset about the world cup loss, you need to leave the country. Every soccer fan in the world would be upset about that off-sides call if their team was in that situation the Koreans were in. So it’s not just Koreans. It happened with the Italians in 2002 (they went hystarical when they lost to the Koreans) and same with the Australians in their final match this year. So what if the Koreans are upset about their loss in their own country? Let them be.

  18. comment number 18 by: ponta

    Hi Helical.
    Thanks.

    I don’t think what ethnicity people are really matters here.
    Being one or the another doesn’t influence what they have to say, right

    I agree,I was curious: I was curious about who wants to talk about how bad Japanese colonization of Korea was and how terrible the Nanjin massacre was when the topic of the thread is about the Korean attitude toward the loss.
    And I suggested him to study the culture of han in Korea, which has something to do with both this topic and what he is talking about, but he reponded to this with the links about the debates on Nanjin,which makes me more curious about his ethinicity.(I see nothing wrong with the debates about Nanjin in Japan, I see something wrong with almost unonimous nationalistic Korean attitude and the distortion of Korean history, about which Korean historians lacks any real debate.)
    Who wants to talk about the debates of Nanjin in Japan when we are talking about korea culture/social tendency/the lack of critical attitude toward the past (loss)?

    That is my motivation to ask him his ethinicity.

  19. comment number 19 by: KimchiPie

    To dummies like JK (who is a Rober Kim American and therefore must think exactly like all other Koreans) every topic is somehow related to Japan being evil. This post is about Koreans being very poor sports in football (soccer) and JK wants to talk about Japan being bad 60-100 years ago.

    If you met JK on the street and said its a nice day, JK would no doubt tell you that the Japanese will make it rain.

    Zerosum you should listen to your own advise. Robert kim types like you and JK should leave the USA if you hate it. If you love Korea so much then move there and start cutting off your fingers over Takeshima like true Koreans do. Leave the USA as you clearly hate it.

  20. comment number 20 by: kpforce

    To ponta
    I am Korean and I live in California.
    Btw Rose is the one who brought up this issue related to Nanjing not me.

    ‘I understand that they can be anti-war but most of them are often anti-Japanese. That kind of people still believe that Japanese killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese people in Nanjing’

    I personally felt this blog is pretty interesting because I am working on research project related to this issue. One of my friend who is working on this project is going to Harvard University this coming fall to study East Asia public relation and I think it would be good opportunity for both us to find out more information regarding this issue since my friend will give presentation about post WW II era in East Asia to Harvard professors. Just let you know neither my friend or I have any bias or distorted view. We as scholars want to find out what is behind one of the most controversial issue in East Asia we are not interesting about which country did wrong or right. We will be done with research by end of August so if any one of you can help us out with factual information I would gladly accept it.

  21. comment number 21 by: Rose

    kpforce,

    Well I think Rose and few poster in this blog got lots of prejudice against Korean. I know there might be a exaggeration of what happen during Japanese colonization period but because of some distorted confession it doesn’t mean what they did was completely fiction.

    I admit that I have either some prejudice against Koreans, factual knowledge of Koreans, or both.
    I must add, though, I had neither before I learned what Koreans have been doing in Korea for many years.

    First of all, what makes you think massacre in Nanjing was made up? I personally have Chinese friend whose grandmother was crucially beaten and abused during Nanjing masscre. If you say she is lying and exaggerating there is nothing I can say about it, but certainly that shouldn’t be excuse.

    If you believe the word “lawlessness in general” best describes the Japanese/Japanese culture, you’d have every ritht to believe whatever crazy things people say about Japanese.
    However, I don’t believe that’s what the majority of world population characterizes the Japanese, except Chinese and Koreans.
    If you don’t think that’s fishy(that why is it only in China and Korea), you are most likely in that fishy water, with or without knowing it.

    Second, in what extent Japan help developing modern Korea?
    I always hear few Japanese who argued that Japan help Korea to be a modern city. Yes I do agree in certain extent but it was only during 1930-1940’s. Also, you have to realize that during 1940’s 85% of Korean manufacure factories were located on North Korea and even these factories were nearly vanished during Korean war because of American air force attack. So did you see any Japanese built factories that help building modern Korea in 1950’s? If you can find a any article please send me to Jhbae@uci.edu

    I think ponta has cited some articles that suggest what Japan has actually done to Korea in the colonization era.
    By the way, if you learned that Japan’s colonization was limited to South Korea, that is not simply true.

    I am graduate student at UCI, major in East Asian study and we are currently on reserch regarding post WWII period in East Asia, so if you can find legitimate and reliable facts regarding this issue I would gladly use in my research paper.

    If what you are saying is true, I would highly appreciate your honesty and eagerness for the truth.
    The truth may hurt at times and may not be accepted in your neighborhood, but I believe that’s the only thing that you need to see our world and history in the right way.

    However, don’t be emotional like what rose say

    ‘I guess it is encoded in your DNA to go back and become servants/slaves of China and live happily.’

    If you are truly educated and you think you are not like angry and emotional nationalist Korean or Chinese do not act same way Mr.Rose otherwise you look like just one of them from third person point of view.

    If you find out that what I claimed were facts, then you would understand that I had every ritht to get angry.
    Imagine if you were raised, told stories like your ancestors killed hundreds of thousands of people all your life, only to find out later that no such thing had happened.

    If you disgrace my name, I’d slap you in the face.
    But if you disgraced my ancestors’ names, I’d either destroy you or just try to direct you to better information. I’m trying to do my part for the latter.

    sqz,

    日本人と韓国人の勝負事に負けた時のリアクションの違いから、日本の天然左翼や、韓国の反日が戦後発祥した原因を半良心的に考察してみました。
    英語がまずいから必要以上に長文になってしまいましたがw

  22. comment number 22 by: zerosum

    First of all Kimchipie, true Koreans DO NOT cut their own fingers over the Dokdo issue (or as Japanese would like to say “Takeshima”). That is something that Jap Yakuza gangsters like to do. Also, I have not mentioned the US not even once in my comments so I don’t know where the hell you get the idea that I “hate it”. Let me tell you what I do hate though: ignorant, short sighted bloggers who categorize all Koreans as being “exactly like” each other and making them sound like US hating, crazy nationalistic zealots. I assure you, most Korean Americans are not so. I also think that the idea that the Jap colonization of their neighboring countries was a “good thing” is extremely flawed. Only extreme right-wing Japanese nationalistic fools believe this was something good. And, IF the Japanese government was repentant about their actions and involvement in WWII, then tell me why they have not erected a single monument in their country commemorating those who were killed innocently under their rule? The Germans have. What have the Japs done? Are they going to continue claiming that nobody was tortured or harmed under their rule?
    I would also like to add that I love the US and I do not intend to step foot off this land because I think pro-Japanese nationalistic bloggers have flawed thoughts.

  23. comment number 23 by: Mika

    zerosum ,

    If you can read Korean, read following articles. Even in Korea, there are some Korean intellectuals who claim Korea distort history. Though they are often attacked by ignorant nationalistic Koreans who have never been taught to “think” or to appreciate another point of view.

    공산주의·좌파사상에 기인한 친일파 단죄의 어리석음 – 한일병합을 재평가하자

    반지성이 만들어낸 민족주의 신화, ‘맹목적 반일주의’ 이영훈교수 인터뷰 (상)

    [2005년을 빛낼 인물]한국현대사 재해석 서울대 박지향 교수

  24. comment number 24 by: Rose

    zerosum,

    This blog is so pro-Jap and so anti-Korean it makes me laugh.

    EXCUSE ME?
    DID YOU MEAN, PRO-JAPANESE AND ANTI-GOOK?

    If you live in the U.S., you should realize that Koreans are ethnologically funny, as least for how Koreans are reacting to all this soccer thing.

    You seem to be interested in telling us that you are not like the Koreans that we often see in the news, but you don’t realize that you are reacting EXACTLY the same way.
    The very attitude you show in your post makes us feel more confident about how we think Koreans are is very accurate.

    I also think that the idea that the Jap colonization of their neighboring countries was a “good thing” is extremely flawed.

    If you think it is EXTREMELY flawed, then you give me factual evidence to back up your opinion, not like the fabricated ones we typically get from Koreans.

    Are they going to continue claiming that nobody was tortured or harmed under their rule?

    Did you know that torturing is more of a Korean thing, that Japanese prohibited after colonizing Korea?

    I would also like to add that I love the US and I do not intend to step foot off this land because I think pro-Japanese nationalistic bloggers have flawed thoughts.

    Are you implying you’d go back to Korea if you change your mind and you don’t think pro-Japanese nationalistic
    bloggers have flawed thoughts anymore?
    Is that just how your language is spoken?

    I think you should be worried about your home country more than what the Japanese think about your country.
    Did you know that elementary schools in Seoul teach pupils to think Jong-Il Kim as a nice person?
    What does that mean to the future of Korea and doesn’t that bother you at all?

  25. comment number 25 by: sqz

    RoseやPontaや、せめて日本人だけでも、不毛な議論は止めよう。
    ここの話題は、韓国対スイス戦に対する韓国人の反応でしかない。
    日本も中国も南京も植民地も、何も関係が無い。
    もし南京大虐殺が事実なら、オフサイドが認められるのか?
    そんな馬鹿ことないだろ。

    記憶がさだかでないので困っているのだが、何かヨーロッパの童話で、
    コロコロ主張が変わるが故に、みんなから村八分にされる話があるだろ。
    日本なんぞ持ち出さなくても、ここの話題に対応出来るはずだ。

    韓国人と同じレベルに落ちては、ミイラ盗りがミイラじゃねーか。

  26. comment number 26 by: zerosum

    Rose,
    What does “ethnologically funny” mean? Are you saying that Koreans Americans are avid soccer fans rooting for their homeland? Is that supposed to be funny? I believe being a soccer fan is rather universal. I guess Japanese think that is a “funny” thing.
    Also, how is torturing a “korean thing” that “Japanese prohibited after colonizing Korea”? So you are claiming that Koreans liked to torture each other and the Japanese came in and stopped them from harming themselves? Wow. I guess Koreans should be thankful for that? I guess the Jews should be thankful that Nazis sent them to concentration camps too then. Otherwise, they would have “tortured” themselves too right?
    I’ll apologize for saying “Jap” however. I didn’t feel like writing out Japanese for it being quite long. Plus, writing “Kor” for “Koreans” wouldn’t make sense to some few. So my apologies on that if it sounded racist.
    I don’t see how giving you factual evidence on any type of argument would help. People such as yourself already have your own Pro-Japanese nationalistic ideologies ingrained in your heads. You already proved it when you said Koreans typically give “fabricated” facts. So I see it as a lost cause trying to argue with you. All I can hope is that not all Japanese are so confused with the real facts like you Rose (where the hell did you hear that elementary school kids in Korea are taught that KJI is a “nice” person??). If so, Japan as a country certainly will not go far in this world…atleast diplomatically.
    Also, you miss the point when I said I do not intend to step foot off US soil in response to KimchiePies comments. I do not live in Japan and do not intend to live there either. I live in the US and I do not complain about it. However, if I did have problems, I would have moved out of here. But, this is my home which I am proud of…not Japan.

  27. comment number 27 by: Mika

    Yeah, all Korea’s childish reactions about loss of WC has nothing to do with Japan. Let’s back to original topic. Korea not only have to learn how to win, but how to lose as well. In order to have pride in your own country, it is not necessary to do disrespectful actions to other countries. Korea might has been developed materialistically, but the mindset still seems to be very immature to be considered a civilized country.

  28. comment number 28 by: helical

    zerosum,
    The fact that Korean supporters always seem to have an extereme reaction to any losses (not saying that others don’t) is amusing in itself, the issue raised by this article is the fact the Korean supporters are worked up to a blind rage about an issue that doesn’t even exist.
    Also, even if there are foreigners in Korea who are annoyed by the level of hysteria going on about the Korea-Swiss match, no one has the right to make them leave the country just by that. Or, do you endorse the expulsion of anyone who disagrees with you with good reason, from anywhere in earshot so you can live your life comfortably with the knowledge that everyone will always agree with you?

    true Koreans DO NOT cut their own fingers over the Dokdo issue (or as Japanese would like to say “Takeshima”). That is something that Jap Yakuza gangsters like to do.

    Unless you have reason to believe that the one protester who did cut off their own fingers for a fact was not a “true Korean”, this is a false statement. And just FYI, the Yakuza indeed have a tradition of chopping fingers so that part is true, but not as much these days it seems.

    kpforce,
    There are a number of books that refute the traditional claims concerning Nanjing, but almost all are published in Japan in Japanese.
    The book,
    『ザ・レイプ・オブ・南京』の研究―中国における「情報戦」の手口と戦略
    “‘The Rape of Nanking” no Kenkyuu — Chuugoku ni okeru ‘jyouhousen’ no teguchi to senryaku”
    (“The Study of ‘The Rape of Nanking’ — The Strategies and Techniques of Information warfare in China”)
    by 東中野 修道, 藤岡 信勝 (Higashinakano Shuudou, Fujioka Nobukatsu)
    may be a good starting point for supported claims on the other side of the issue if it’s okay with you that the books are in Japanese. (I’ve heard rumors floating around of an English version too)

    Rose,

    EXCUSE ME?
    DID YOU MEAN, PRO-JAPANESE AND ANTI-GOOK?

    Racial slurs won’t get you anywhere, at least here where people are trying to debate out points.
    sqzの言うように、せめて関係無い話、決め付け、そして感情任せの話はやめませんか?

  29. comment number 29 by: terry66

    zerosum, actually they do teach korean children that north korea is good and that its leader is too! perhaps you should look at the korean teachers union website and see just what crap they are teaching young korean children now! It seems instead of encouraging critical thinking korea instead teaches conformity to a seriously deluded campaign of nationalistic drivel!!
    as for japan going far diplomatically as a country? What you think korea is taken seriously as a diplomatic country? What is diplomatic about seizing a disputed territory and then pronouncing that its theirs! whats diplomtic about that? How about calling the japanese ambassador in for a “private meeting” only to ambush him with korean media as he lambasts him and japan, Whats diplomatic about that?
    Admit it korean is a nation that has more than its fair share of stupid nationalistic idiots!
    I fully wellcome japans remiltarisation, its about time they stopped taking shit from a backwards country!

  30. comment number 30 by: Matt

    RoseやPontaや、せめて日本人だけでも、不毛な議論は止めよう。

    同意だ。

    Lets try to stick to the issue of the Korea-Switzerland match. I will make some other posts where people can fight it out over historical issues soon, if that is what people want.

  31. comment number 31 by: dogbert

    If you are so sick and tired about Koreans getting upset about the world cup loss, you need to leave the country.

    The thing is, even if one goes back to one’s native land, chances are it’s infested with arrogant mouthy kyopos just like you and “jk”. In reality, it’s your type that needs to move back to the “motherland”.

  32. comment number 32 by: georgyporgy

    Getting back to the main track of this posting, I, as a football fan and ex-football player, could understand the Korean supporters lament for the delicate judgment at odds with their national team in the match against the Swiss.
    For the sake of fairness, I believe I should point out a crucial misunderstanding in Jeff’s posting that Matt cites above.
    Before the final matches in Group G in which France fought against Togo, and Korea against Switzerland, Korea (2nd place) had been tying Switzerland (1st place) in game points (4 points each as the result of 1 win and 1 draw), and France had gained only 2 points (2 consecutive draws). It is true that chances were that France would be defeating Togo, gaining 5 game points in total. However, if Korea had tied Switzerland by 1-1, and if France had won against Togo by 1-0 (actually it was 2-0 win by France), Korea and France would have tied in game points by 5 and in the scores gained minus those lost by +1. If this had been what happened, Korea, but not France, would have been advanced to the round of best 16 because Korea would have surpassed France in the total scores gained (i.e. Korea 4, France 2).
    Unfortunately, this is not what happened…
    Again, as a football fan, I truly wished that Korea, representing AFC, would be advanced to the final round. This is mostly because the rest of the three teams representing AFC, including Japan, had all been defeated by then. Now I’m afraid that the number of spots allocated to AFC (4.5 for WC Germany 2006) will be decreased to 3.5 or 3 (or even less). Furthermore, it has already been decided that Australia is joining AFC from the elimination process, which starts two years from now, for WC South Africa 2010.
    I watched the match between Korea and Spain in Kwanju, Korea, in WC Korea/Japan 2002, in which neither of the two legitimate goals scored by Spain was counted. Although I was there to root the Koreans, the only team from Asia advanced to the quarter-final, I didn’t feel like congratulating the Koreans on their victory due to the unfair judgments against Spain.
    As is well known, these two mistaken judgments as well as the one in the Korea vs Italia match on the previous round, by which Francisco Totti of Italia got a red card for “simulation,” are all on the list of the worst 10 mistaken judgments in the history of WC.

  33. comment number 33 by: JK

    Interesting article, btw…..
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1209092,00.html?cnn=yes

  34. comment number 34 by: Victor

    Rose wrote:

    …how scary it was when B-29 attacked Tokyo from the air at night, how many friends and relatives had killed. At least they survived but there were millions who were killed in the war.

    Rose, has it ever dawned on your mind that the U.S. attacked Japan only after Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, killing innocent americans?

  35. comment number 35 by: Victor

    I think I found a reason why Koreans became so anti-Japanese after the WWII when there are so many good things done to Korea by Japanese. Koreans would do any thing to avoid a loss competely or justify a loss by blaming on the others.

    Yes, that’s right. I believe you. Japan must have colonized Korea so that so many good things could be done to Korea. And I’m sure Japan attacked the U.S. to do the same.

  36. comment number 36 by: JK

    Victor, good one! LOL!!!

  37. comment number 37 by: zerosum

    Dogbert,
    I’m not the one bitching and whining about Koreans while IN KOREA. Also, if you can’t accept the fact that the US is an ethnically diverse country (with “arrogant mouthy gyopos”) and will continue remaining as one, you might as well go live in the mountains of West Virginia hiding with those right-wing militia groups calling for a return to a “white” America.

    Now back to the subject…
    I whole heartedly agree with georgyporgy’s observation.

  38. comment number 38 by: chonko

    It’s so funny…where do you find the largest population of Koreans festering around on the internet? On Korean-related sites? No, on Japan-related sites. They have some sick and twisted obsession and jealousy with Japan..hahaha. Very funny and cute to watch them getting all riled up and foaming at the mouth angry when someone reveals the truth about their immature and inferiority-complex ridden bragging. Koreans remind me alot of the character “Fredo” from “The Godfather.”

  39. comment number 39 by: KimchiPie

    Matt, it looks like the Koreans have hijacked another post. The pattern is the same. They hijack it. Scream “JAP did this, Jap did that” and then start crying about how much racism they are subject to.

    The worst are the ‘robert kim’ (that means you victor and JK) type of koreans that are all over the USA, Japan and Canada. Pretty much all gyopos are full of hatred of everyone. What will it take for those nations to realize that koreans have no loyalty to their passport nation.

    Now lets get back to the topic that koreans are clueless about football and are full of blind nationalism.

  40. comment number 40 by: KimchiPie

    Zerosum after reading your post, I would like to make sure I am clear. You ZEROSUM think and act exactly like every other korean. And if i saw you in Japan/usa/canada I would not turn my back on you for one minute. I am also sure that you have a huge wall poster of robert kim on your wall.

    Koreans like you make the same claim over and over. JAP MUST APOLOGISE!!!

    Once japan says sorry, the Koreans chant: NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!

    Monuments you say??? are you nuts, japan has done enough for your race.

    Now go cut off your finger, like all true koreans, if you really love takeshima.

  41. comment number 41 by: sqz

    【W杯】「行き過ぎた愛国心で誤った解説してはダメ」

  42. comment number 42 by: ponta

    Sqz
    【W杯】「行き過ぎた愛国心で誤った解説してはダメ」

    さらに辛さんは事実を知りながらも歪曲したり沈黙したりしている大韓サッカー協会やサッカー専門家にも苦言を呈した。そして「大韓サッカー協会は国民に真実を伝えるべきだ。FIFAらがオフサイドではないと判断しているのにもかかわらず、沈黙している。国民が勘違いしたままにしておくことが、韓国サッカーにとって何の役に立つというのか」

    Shin criticised Korean Football asociation and football specialists, saying that they are either silent or they are distorting the fact, knowing the truth…..What is the use of our Nationals being left deceived?.

    He is a great guy.I don’t understand why and how he bacame a victim.
    (See, sqz, I didn’t mention Dok…)

  43. comment number 43 by: sqz

    Pontaさんもその他の人も、議論の流れを確認しなおしてください。

    僕は、竹島とかなんとかというような、そんな問題を言ったのではありません。
    それにIDを列挙した人だけに言ったのではありません。
    僕が日本人だとわかる人のIDを列挙したのを失礼だと言うのなら、その点は認めましょう。
    しかし、あのまま放置しておけば、ここの話題がとんでもない方向に進み、主題とは一切関係の無い不毛な議論になると気付いたのです。
    よくよく読み返すと、あの方向へ決定付けたのは、日本側の発言でした。
    皆がその方向に押し流されてしまい、誰も主題に戻ろうとしません。
    それでは、話題逸らしをして主題を有耶無耶させる韓国人の手口を、日本人が協同してやっているのと同じではありませんか。
    せめて日本人だけでも、いわゆる「韓国面」に落ちないでいて欲しい、ただそれだけの思いで、あえてあの発言をしたのです。

    主題と関係のある議論であるなら、僕は止めるつもりなどありません。
    逆に、白熱した議論になってもいいのです。
    僕も、そのような議論に参加したいのですから。

  44. comment number 44 by: ponta

    sqz
    I know I know.Don’t take my words too seriously.
    (わかっているって・・・りょうどもんだいのこともおなじやなああ、ということをあんじするーーーなんつうか、ま、ことばのあや、きになったらもうしわけないm(_ _)m)

  45. comment number 45 by: Ocebey

    holala…. If only Rose hadn’t started claiming that Japan’s actions in the past were all in order to save Asia from the evil westerners and that if not for that all asians would be slave today (prepostarous assumption) we would still be talking about soccer…

    なぜROSEみたいなやついつもおかの立派な日本人のIMAGE台無しにするかな?

    Anyway for that soccer game the judging was done in a fair manner. The Swiss team was not weak and the Koreans didn’t have enough luck that time… Get over it it’s been 2 years 🙂