Occidentalism
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Ethnic and religious discord

January 13th, 2007 . by Matt

Unbelievable. The man you will see in these videos is called Taj El-Din Hilaly, and he is the leader of the majority of the Muslims community in Australia. Given everything that has been going on, one can hardly help but think his opinions reflect the opinion of Muslims in Australia.

Apparently he got his permanent residency (and then citizenship) through political pressure and activism by Muslims in Australia, and did not meet the normal requirements that apply to all other immigrants. If a political favor was granted, then it should be taken away. The whole of Australia should not suffer because a political party seeking short term political gain or votes wrongly and most corruptly granted him the right to stay in Australia permanently.


24 Responses to “Ethnic and religious discord”

  1. comment number 1 by: Errol

    Hillaly gets a bad rap. Check out his in-laws’ story.

  2. comment number 2 by: Errol

    Though this story of Anglo-saxons coming to Australia in chains is nonsense in the case of Matt and myself whose ancestors immigrated to free settler states.

    The sins of the father shall be visited on the daughterssons argument also smacks of genetic determinism.

    Not a very nice view by Hillali and seems a little yangbanish.

  3. comment number 3 by: MarkA

    Too bad the Muslim leaders here in Korea are not as outspoken. Then again, I can think of a couple of good reasons why they wouldn’t be.

  4. comment number 4 by: wjk

    i am impressed. Somehow, something about a Muslim and Austrailia managed to generate ties to

    1. Korea
    2. Yangban.

    Impressive.

  5. comment number 5 by: wjk

    i might change my name to the Kyopo Comment Booster.

  6. comment number 6 by: Errol

    wjk Said:

    January 14, 2007 at 2:02 am

    i am impressed. Somehow, something about a Muslim and Austrailia managed to generate ties to

    1. Korea
    2. Yangban.

    Impressive.

    wjk, Occidental philosophy has been moving away from genetic determinism since Aristotle culminating in John Locke’s concept of the Social Contract and the English Civil war and its offspring the American War of Independence.

    Unfortunately, Islam and Yangbanism (aka Korean-Confucianism) support genetic determinism in order to maintain control of Muslim and Korean society respectively. The parallels are obvious to any attentive student in a Philosophy 100 class.

  7. comment number 7 by: Darin

    What’s even more impressive to me is this time you didn’t start it wjk 😉

  8. comment number 8 by: GarlicBreath

    Hi Darin,

    WJK is not blaming everything on Japan here (today) because he is busy doing it over at the Marmot Hole.

    Oh and he is has combined his favorite topis. Rape, homosexuality and blaming Japan.

    The WJK trifecta.

    The poor woman is raped, and our pal WJK is naturally concerned with homosexual rape and how its all because of the evil Japanese. Like I have said before, hell, has a special place reserved for people like that.

  9. comment number 9 by: stumpjumper

    I am personally sick and tired of hearing these stories…
    Religions are supposed to make people’s life richer,
    but they are always the ones that creates nastiest problems
    in our societies.

    I have many friends from middle east. Even though we are good
    friends, when I ask them what is going to happen if I die,
    they always tell me without hesitation that I would go to “hell”.

    They were nice enough to give me a copy of Coran though….

    Why can’t all of us get along!

  10. comment number 10 by: sheik yer mami

    Muhammedan infiltration in Korea? Interesting.
    I’d like to keep an eye on it.

    Shortly Sheik Yer’mami will release another song about Hilali…

    Hilali gotta go. Internment & deportations for all Muhammedan scumbags: NO mosques, no madrassah’s, no indoctrination, no hatred: Many Muhammedan holes are waiting for you, Australia is not for you!

    http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/harry-the-taliban/

    http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/my-allah-is-better/

    http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/the-shoe-bomber/

  11. comment number 11 by: Ichigobatakekakashi

    Hi Matt,

    I linked this story to my Japanese blog, In the Strawberry Field. I also wrote the post in English.
    http://biglizards.net/strawberryblog/archives/2007/01/post_294.html

    These imams everywhere in Europe and the United States, their mission is to spread Sharia. They have no interest in adjusting themseleves to the local community.

  12. comment number 12 by: beechtreem

    Matt,
    His opinions (and perhaps general Muslim sentiment in Australia) also reflect a reaction to Australia’s participation in the US campaign of terror in the Middle East. Since Australia was part of the coalition that illegally invaded Iraq, you can hardly expect the Muslim community in Australia to develop strong patriotic feelings – they feel betrayed and under attack themselves. No wonder then if Hilaly gets emotional and says nasty thing. Take it within the context of state-sanctioned violence against Muslims, and we begin to comprehend it.

  13. comment number 13 by: Matt

    Matt,
    His opinions (and perhaps general Muslim sentiment in Australia) also reflect a reaction to Australia’s participation in the US campaign of terror in the Middle East. Since Australia was part of the coalition that illegally invaded Iraq, you can hardly expect the Muslim community in Australia to develop strong patriotic feelings – they feel betrayed and under attack themselves. No wonder then if Hilaly gets emotional and says nasty thing. Take it within the context of state-sanctioned violence against Muslims, and we begin to comprehend it.

    I was also against the war in Iraq… years before it happened. Do not confuse Hilaly’s comments with a principled stand against the war.

  14. comment number 14 by: beechtreem

    i confuse nothing – I am offering a broader context. You could also view it within the context of the race riots on Cronulla beach – whites attacking Muslims – to further comprehend Hilaly’s crude hostility and hate-fueled rants.

    Given everything that has been going on, one can hardly help but think his opinions reflect the opinion of Muslims in Australia.

    But it seems that you confuse his troubling views with those of everyday Australian Musilms, which i find reprehensible on your part, sorry to say. Most Australian-Muslims are alarmed and revolted by this remarks, as The Australian reports:

    Sheik Hilali was universally condemned by mainstream politicians and Muslim leaders nationwide and could even face a revolt from within his tight-knit community over the Ramadan sermon in which he likened immodestly dressed women to meat and suggested rape victims were as much to blame as their attackers.

    The same article states how they would like to rid themselves of him but cannot yet do so

    However, the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils – the national body that appointed him mufti – could not move against Sheik Hilali because an ethnically driven internal brawl over the election of its board has left it without leadership.

    Finally, to Sheik Yer’mami who wrote:

    Hilali gotta go. Internment & deportations for all Muhammedan scumbags: NO mosques, no madrassah’s, no indoctrination, no hatred: Many Muhammedan holes are waiting for you, Australia is not for you!

    I would add that although we do not like what he says, it is no reason to say he should be thrown out of Australia. That sounds fascist to me. If you are for democracy and free speech then you should be for it precisely in situations where you don’t agree with what is being said. He has a right to live in Australia. Preferably behind bars, since as far as I know, inciting rape or hatred is a criminal offence, but saying kick him out of the country is to my ears quite racist and fascist. Telling people “go back where you came from” is racist and belies the multi-cultural complexity Australia is.

  15. comment number 15 by: Matt

    i confuse nothing – I am offering a broader context. You could also view it within the context of the race riots on Cronulla beach – whites attacking Muslims – to further comprehend Hilaly’s crude hostility and hate-fueled rants.

    Actually, I went to school with Muslims (mostly Lebanese). I would say about 30% of the people at my school were Muslim. I am not going to put it in the context of the Cronulla riots, or the war in Iraq, because I am well aware that all these problems predate these events.

    But it seems that you confuse his troubling views with those of everyday Australian Musilms, which i find reprehensible on your part, sorry to say. Most Australian-Muslims are alarmed and revolted by this remarks, as The Australian reports:

    Muslims are alarmed that now these comments, which offend non-Muslim Australians, will cause them difficulty in Australia. Sheikh Hilaly has been preaching his message in Australia for 20 years, without any outcry from Muslims in Australia. His message has been consistent since that time. The difference is that now the internet is able to let people know what people are saying at any time, and dedicated bloggers and concerned parties provide translations, something that did not exist when he first arrived in Australia. So yes, Muslims are alarmed at the negative reaction of non-Muslim Australians, but they had more than 20 years to deal with Sheikh Hilaly, and were fine with his message until it provoked this reaction.

    I would add that although we do not like what he says, it is no reason to say he should be thrown out of Australia. That sounds fascist to me. If you are for democracy and free speech then you should be for it precisely in situations where you don’t agree with what is being said. He has a right to live in Australia. Preferably behind bars, since as far as I know, inciting rape or hatred is a criminal offence, but saying kick him out of the country is to my ears quite racist and fascist. Telling people “go back where you came from” is racist and belies the multi-cultural complexity Australia is

    I would agree with you except for the fact that he received his citizenship as a corrupt political favor. He did not meet the normal requirements of immigration to Australia. Since this was an act of corruption by the previous government, I think the political favor should be withdrawn. Furthermore, I think the people that granted the favor should be investigated, and if appropriate, dealt with according to the relevant laws.

    I do not think he should be thrown into jail for incitement or racial discrimination, though. I think he is doing us a favor by letting us know what his community believes.

  16. comment number 16 by: beechtreem

    Well, if he’s spent 20 years in Australia, however he managed to get his citizinship, like it or not, he’s an Australian. I do see what you’re trying to say about Hilali. Its when you stereotype and generalize the Muslim-Australian community that I have to say, hold on, that’s racist and offensive.

    Muslims are alarmed that now these comments, which offend non-Muslim Australians, will cause them difficulty in Australia.

    Many are, but many also find his remarks revolting, particularly muslim women.

    I think he is doing us a favor by letting us know what his community believes.

    Again, you are over-generalizing to the point of being offensive. He does not represent the views of the Muslim community. He is not even democratically elected. And there are plenty of Muslims who don’t feel any afiliation with this primate. But according to you, being Muslim makes them guilty by association, and you place the onus on them to get rid of him. Look, if I’m catholic and there’s an outspoken hate-mongering pervert Bishop in the diocese I’m under, that does make me a hate-mongering pervert. I don’t espouse his views. But I don’t feel obligated to go and protest against him just because I’m catholic. If he breaks the law let the law take care of him. But i’m living my life and practising my faith, and i don’t need bigots sweeping me up into a stereotype because of some asshole Bishop. Same applies to Muslims. And shame on the Australian media and you for characterizing this as a battle between the values of Arab Australians and European Australians. That’s bullshit, Matt, and you know it.

  17. comment number 17 by: Matt

    Well, if he’s spent 20 years in Australia, however he managed to get his citizinship, like it or not, he’s an Australian.

    I do feel the method he obtained his citizenship is relevant. I think it should be investigated, and if wrongdoing is found, that it should be reversed. As far as I know there are provisions in the law to allow a reversal in the event that the citizenship was fraudulently obtained.

    Many are, but many also find his remarks revolting, particularly muslim women.

    We usually do not get to hear the opinions of Muslim women. Often they are not allowed to speak for themselves. I am struck by vivid, real life examples of Muslim women with their husbands being unable to speak for themselves. Their husbands do the talking for them.

    As for the other stuff, I can see you expressing your opinion about what you think Muslims think – that they condemn all this, but is that not stereotyping too? Look, Muslims subscribe to an Islamic belief system, and on many, many points this belief system is in conflict with that of other Australians.

    Do you live in Sydney? I want to know exactly where you live, and how much experience you have with Muslims in real life.

  18. comment number 18 by: beechtreem

    I do feel the method he obtained his citizenship is relevant. I think it should be investigated, and if wrongdoing is found, that it should be reversed.

    I’d say 20 years gives him a fair right to remain. If there was wrongdoing it should be dealt with according to Australian law – you might for example charge him with fraud or bibery, but he should be allowed to stay, IMHO.

    I can see you expressing your opinion about what you think Muslims think – that they condemn all this, but is that not stereotyping too?

    I don’t group all Muslims together into an amorphous entity disignated “They”. Many Muslims don’t like what he is saying since they know that the racist media will make it reflect on all Muslims. I don’t want to play the arrogant silly game of ascribing nasty views to the Muslim community and then insist they prove me wrong.

    Muslims subscribe to an Islamic belief system, and on many, many points this belief system is in conflict with that of other Australians.

    Again you doing what the racist media is doing. If there’s anything “in conflict” its fomented by the political elite and corporate media because its serves their own agenda. First it was the aboriginal-Australians, now its the Musilm-Australians.

    Folks are just different, and they live together in complex relationships, that merge on certain points and seperate on others. But I don’t see Islam duking it out with so-called Australian values at the corner store everyday.

    My belief-system may be totally at odds with my neighbours, but big deal. An open, democratic society means toleration and acceptance. I might be an outspoken vegan and I might think sex should only be practised 5 years after marriage, blindfolded, during a lunar eclipse, but so what? If I’m not breaking any laws, and if my wife is a consenting adult, we are entitled to our belief-system just as you are, and yours may be the majority but big fucking deal, where not a totalitarian society yet.

    Do you live in Sydney? I want to know exactly where you live, and how much experience you have with Muslims in real life.

    There’s no need for that.

  19. comment number 19 by: Matt

    I think at some point here we are not really communicating, but I will address a couple of points.

    My belief-system may be totally at odds with my neighbours, but big deal. An open, democratic society means toleration and acceptance. I might be an outspoken vegan and I might think sex should only be practised 5 years after marriage, blindfolded, during a lunar eclipse, but so what? If I’m not breaking any laws, and if my wife is a consenting adult, we are entitled to our belief-system just as you are, and yours may be the majority but big fucking deal, where not a totalitarian society yet.

    Yes, I agree with you. Do you think that I care that Muslims pray in a mosque, or whatever? I do not care how a man prays, or what he believes in. However, if you were a vegan that believed that meat eaters deserved death, then there would be a problem. By the same token, if you are a supporter of sharia law, then you are trying to implement a totalitarian society.

    There’s no need for that.

    There is. I have plenty of real life experience with Muslims (mostly Lebanese Muslims), long before the Iraq war or Cronulla riot. My first impression in high school of the Muslim students was “they hate Australians”. I was just a kid, and I never had thoughts like that about any other ethnic minority. There is a strong undercurrent of rage and anger towards Australian society in their community.

    I was in Punchbowl with a friend, and suffered racial slurs walking on the street. Three Lebanese men tried to mug me on the train (they failed) and made it clear they were doing because I was Australian. A bottle of beer was thrown towards myself and my friend from a car, that narrowly missed missed us (guess who was in the car?). A Jewish friend had an anti-semitic comment/threat at him by a few Lebanese Muslims. Not to mention the endless slurs directed at Australians by Lebanese Muslims at my high school (Lebanese Muslims made up around 30% of the school population, “Australians” made up about 3% of the school).

    Personal experience can inform a world view. It is possible to put all these things down to bad luck, but hard to do so when people around you tell you similar stories. Harder still when leaders of the Muslim community make these comments.

    Blaming a racist media is just not going to work. There are plenty of non whites, even Lebanese people that are not Muslims, that are doing fine. Furthermore, Muslim communities all around the world are having exactly the same problems. The behavior that we are seeing from Muslims in Australia (terrorism, crime, racism, religious bigotry) is puzzling, but these comments from Hilaly are definitely part of the puzzle.

  20. comment number 20 by: beechtreem

    The behavior that we are seeing from Muslims in Australia (terrorism, crime, racism, religious bigotry) is puzzling, but these comments from Hilaly are definitely part of the puzzle.

    just because a few individuals happened to slur you doesn’t give you the right to slur a whole community. The behaviour I’m seeing from white elites with power and weapons is god almighty fucking obscene in their war against the Muslim world. Its bloody genocide when, according to the British medical journal Lancet, 600 000 Iraqi civilians have perished horribly due to the wicked invasion and occupation of US, UK and jolly racist Australian forces. So take it with a grain of salt, the flimsy name-calling, because its nothing compared to organised massacres and the rape of barely pubescent Muslim girls and the torture of innocent men.

    If a gang of thugs who happen to be Lebanese Muslims befoul you, its no reason to blame everyone. Condemn the thugs. As if among the white folks there were no rotten and sodden gits with racist-agressive tendencies. Give me a fucking break mate. There’s aberrant nasty shit heads all about in every color and shade, so don’t go slandering whole communities for your unfortunate encounters.

    Why is Australia so plagued? Canada manages its multi-culturalism quite well.

  21. comment number 21 by: Matt

    just because a few individuals happened to slur you doesn’t give you the right to slur a whole community. The behaviour I’m seeing from white elites with power and weapons is god almighty fucking obscene in their war against the Muslim world. Its bloody genocide when, according to the British medical journal Lancet, 600 000 Iraqi civilians have perished horribly due to the wicked invasion and occupation of US, UK and jolly racist Australian forces. So take it with a grain of salt, the flimsy name-calling, because its nothing compared to organised massacres and the rape of barely pubescent Muslim girls and the torture of innocent men.

    I am not condemning an entire community. I am saying they are a community that has particular problems, and these problems have outward manifestations in religious bigotry, racism, terrorism, and criminality. This community also has these problems while other ethnic communities are doing just fine.

    I will reiterate again, I have noticed this before the Iraq war, the Cronulla riot, or the war on terror.

    As for the war itself, I do not believe it is relevant, anyway. If Muslims want to take a stance against the war, then they should take an ethical one. Refusing to participate in the war is one. Speaking out against the war is another.

    As for the war being racist, well, I am against it and always have been, but I do not think that racism is a reason for it happening. The last war was against the Serbians, who are white people.

    If a gang of thugs who happen to be Lebanese Muslims befoul you, its no reason to blame everyone. Condemn the thugs. As if among the white folks there were no rotten and sodden gits with racist-agressive tendencies. Give me a fucking break mate. There’s aberrant nasty shit heads all about in every color and shade, so don’t go slandering whole communities for your unfortunate encounters.

    There are racist types among the Australian community. But the Australian community condemns that. The Lebanese community however shows itself having a crisis of values when it blames the victims of racist rapes at the hands of Muslim men.

    Why is Australia so plagued? Canada manages its multi-culturalism quite well.

    I do not know. Is Canada free of ethnic tension?

  22. comment number 22 by: beechtreem

    I am saying they are a community that has particular problems, and these problems have outward manifestations in religious bigotry, racism, terrorism, and criminality. This community also has these problems while other ethnic communities are doing just fine.

    Australians need an ethnic group to demonise. Looking back it was first the aboriginals, then the Greek and Italian communities, after that the Vietnamese, and now quite obviously the Arab-speaking community. And the mainstream media, the talkback radio shows, they are monopolising the image of the Arabic speaking community.

    As for the war being racist, well, I am against it and always have been, but I do not think that racism is a reason for it happening.

    Yes, I agree, however its happening clearly has had a racist effect, stigmatizing Arabs and fomenting tremendous resentment along ethnic and national lines.

    The Lebanese community however shows itself having a crisis of values when it blames the victims of racist rapes at the hands of Muslim men.

    There needs to be a more balanced view of the community. It is precisely you and the media that show the Lebanese or Muslim community as “having a crisis of values”, not the community itself, which is appalled by gang-rapes and hate-motivated crimes. Such criminals, by the nature of their actions, are disassociated from the values of the Muslim religion. Renegade and deviant elements of a community always stand out, and they stand out not because they represent the views and values of the community but because they have abandoned those values.

  23. comment number 23 by: Big Bill

    “Australians need an ethnic group to demonise.”

    Wow. Its like beechteem says, you f*ckin’ Assuies are all alike, just like the Imam says: crooks, handcuffs, yout women are sluts, and like beechtreem says, you all love to hate.

    Say, Imam, before the door hits you in th butt on the way out whyncha take beechtreem with you. I’m sure he would love to move back to the hell hole your brethren frantically sought to escape when they crawled to Oz out of sheer desperation.

    Look guys, the beechtreems of the world have infected all the Western countries. They hate their skin, they hate their tribe, they hate their religion, they hate their history. They have made Canada a hellhole of racial ferment and rape, they have made Europe the same, they have made England the same, and they want to keep it up until everyone is at each other’s throat and a giant race war erupts. Only them will they get their nut. Surrender and extinction is their goal.

    Read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer, a longshoreman-philosopher who read them like a book 50 years ago.

  24. comment number 24 by: beechtreem

    Say, Imam, before the door hits you in th butt on the way out whyncha take beechtreem with you. I’m sure he would love to move back to the hell hole your brethren frantically sought to escape when they crawled to Oz out of sheer desperation.

    Look guys, the beechtreems of the world have infected all the Western countries. They hate their skin, they hate their tribe, they hate their religion, they hate their history. They have made Canada a hellhole of racial ferment and rape, they have made Europe the same, they have made England the same, and they want to keep it up until everyone is at each other’s throat and a giant race war erupts. Only them will they get their nut. Surrender and extinction is their goal.

    hopeless idiot.