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Fundamentalist Christians Undermining Everything That is America

January 12th, 2007 . by Darin

Schools in Seattle have placed a moratorium on the movie, An Inconvenient Truth.

This week in Federal Way schools, it got a lot more inconvenient to show one of the top-grossing documentaries in U.S. history, the global-warming alert “An Inconvenient Truth.”

After a parent who supports the teaching of creationism and opposes sex education complained about the film, the Federal Way School Board on Tuesday placed what it labeled a moratorium on showing the film. The movie consists largely of a computer presentation by former Vice President Al Gore recounting scientists’ findings.

“Condoms don’t belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He’s not a schoolteacher,” said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. “The information that’s being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is. … The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn’t in the DVD.”

School Board members adopted a three-point policy that says teachers who want to show the movie must ensure that a “credible, legitimate opposing view will be presented,” that they must get the OK of the principal and the superintendent, and that any teachers who have shown the film must now present an “opposing view.”

Asked whether an alternative explanation for evolution should be presented by teachers, Barney said it would be appropriate to tell students that other beliefs exist. “It’s only a theory,” he said.

Okay, so beyond all the obvious stupidity of these guys, lets take a look at the extreme stupidity in here. Evolution and Global Warming are theories, therefore they are not absolute, and opposing view points need to be presented. However the opposing viewpoint this guy presents is “[t]he Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn’t in the DVD” and speaks of it as an absolute. Don’t even get me started on the Flying Spaghetti Monster (more from Wikipedia).

Please America, how about we stop going after fundamentalist Muslims and start dropping bombs on fundamentalist Christians. Fundamentalist Muslims in America will generally not interact with the surrounding community, and as a result will not harm it either, but these idiots are doing everything in their power to destroy our already hurt education system. Kick ’em out. Not just out of PTA’s or schools, but out of the country. These types of idiots can be found nowhere else in the world BUT America; why do they flock like this?! You wanna practice a religion? That’s fine, you’re welcome to it, freedom of religion is one of the things that makes America great. But forcing others to believe your harebrained scheme is not freedom of religion, that’s Religious Terrorism. Get this stuff out of the schools, you can learn this type of stuff at your cult camp on the weekends. Geez.

And this opposing view to you speak of, what exactly do you have in mind?

“There is no opposing view to science, which is fact, and the facts are clear that global warming is here, now.”

Is Al’s movie flawless? I haven’t seen it (Curzon has), so I don’t know, (the parent who complained about it also hasn’t seen it, now that’s a Convenient Truth if I’ve ever done seen one) but you’re not going to get me to listen to a word you say once you tell me ‘the Bible says so’.

I came accross this article on Slashdot. Normally the comments section is even worse then something you’ll find on Japan/Korea relations blogs, but there were a coupla a good ones this time.

+ Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old.
The fundamentalist Christians are out breeding the rest of us. We must catch up.

– – Nice pick up line, I’ll have to try that at the bar.
– – Hey nice hips, wana have 8 kids?
Yep, that’s what happens when they don’t teach about condoms in schools!

The Federal Way Public School System lists one of the famous Alumni as a scientist and a parent of children in the school district. I pray to God that Mr. Smith will be pulling his children out tomorrow morning.


42 Responses to “Fundamentalist Christians Undermining Everything That is America”

  1. comment number 1 by: Richardson

    I see your point, Darin, but this;

    Please America, how about we stop going after fundamentalist Muslims and start dropping bombs on fundamentalist Christians. […] Kick ‘em out. Not just out of PTA’s or schools, but out of the country.

    even is (semi) jest makes it sort of a pot-kettle situation.

  2. comment number 2 by: Matt

    … The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn’t in the DVD

    That kind of perspective does not belong in the classroom.

    I see this as a problem of fundamentalists on both sides. Evolutionary fundamentalists demand that their evolutionary theory be accepted as ‘fact’ even though it is as yet still a convincing, but unproven, theory. This invites others, like Christian fundamentalists (and in the future possibly other groups), to demand that their unproven theory also be taught.

    I think a lot of fire can be taken out of this issue by teaching that the evolution theory is a theory, and may not be the absolute truth. Newtons theory of gravitation was the primary accepted theory for a long time until the theory of relativity came along. The same thing may happen to evolution, so the dogmatism about it seems rather pointless.

  3. comment number 3 by: tomato

    Evolutionary fundamentalists demand that their evolutionary theory be accepted as ‘fact’ even though it is as yet still a convincing, but unproven, theory.

    Actually, I fail to see that happening?

    Evolutionary theory is no dogmatism, and usually it’s the Christian Fundamentalists who claim it to be a “theory” and noone else…the reason that they call it a “theory” is to convince people that they have every reason to doubt it…the fundamentalists usually have problem in what evolutionary theory might suggest…that all living organisms are genetically inter-related and humans are no special creation of God…humans just happend to be on earth by mere chance, with no divine intervention.

    That’s how I see the problem, at least. Teaching the story of the Bible as an alternative will be harmful as we are talking about how to perceive the world through the methods of science when teaching about evolution, but not on how people should adhere to their religious beliefs…it just seems to be a road to intorelance for me.

    So I see a big problem in teaching the “alternative” stance. Frankly, I think the Bible should remain in the church. Teaching creationism is no alernative, it’s something completely different in disguse.

  4. comment number 4 by: Matt

    So I see a big problem in teaching the “alternative” stance. Frankly, I think the Bible should remain in the church. Teaching creationism is no alernative, it’s something completely different in disguse.

    I do not advocate teaching any type of religious beliefs or creationism. What I mean is that until evolution is observed, then it remains a plausible, but still unproven, theory. I think it should be taught, but the way the information is presented is also important. I brought up Newtons theory to show how good theories can be improved on or replaced.

    To me saying “evolution happened and you must accept it” is just a heavy handed way of promoting a theory that does not need promoting. To teach creationism would be doing exactly the same thing.

    The fire can be taken out of the issue by being careful to present evolution as a theory. Those on both sides of the issue are taking extreme positions, in my opinion. To me, evolution neither proves nor disproves god, and god neither proves or disproves evolution.

  5. comment number 5 by: tomato

    To me, evolution neither proves nor disproves god, and god neither proves or disproves evolution.

    I don’t quite think that taking such an balanced stance is fair to scientists who seem to be rather sincere in the issue…the foremost advocate for evolution (and other sciences) disproving god is probably Richard Dawkins. But I don’t see him denying other people’s religious beliefs. Some, like Stephen J Gould, said that religion and science is a completely different matter and can coexist. There was a recent article about this in the Times magazine. Evolution is the result of scientific thinking, and nothing else. It’s no dogma, no belief, and I don’t think people like Dawkins and Gould are taking that kind of approach.

    It seems to me more like the fundamentalists who are afraid, because they probably think that their religious belief will be challenged by evolutionary theory. So they try to oppress it or snuff it out by advocating teachings of “alternative thory”. Kind of like the Dokdo theories of Korean nationalists, which seems to be their divine pillar for nationhood?

    I kind of agree with Gould. System of belief is completely different from the methods of science, and should be separated. When they get jumbled up, it’s often a no-no, like the evolutionary theory of survival of the fittest being used by the Nazis…science merely is the tool of understanding the natural phenomemon, not some kind of belief of dogma.

    If one wants to deny evolution, it has to be through the scientific method, not by teachings of what should be believed. So I think I agree with Darin on this issue.

  6. comment number 6 by: tomato

    Matt,

    I found a good article on this:

    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/07/13/scopes.monkey.trial/

    The Scopes trial is quite interesting…

    BTW, good discussion. I hope this kind of dicussion can go on, w/o insults about sex life and the sort.

  7. comment number 7 by: Sonagi

    Matt wrote:

    Evolutionary fundamentalists demand that their evolutionary theory be accepted as ‘fact’ even though it is as yet still a convincing, but unproven, theory. This invites others, like Christian fundamentalists (and in the future possibly other groups), to demand that their unproven theory also be taught.

    This is a common misperception. I can tell you as a public school teacher whose district teaches evolution but not intelligent design, that evolution is taught as a scientific theory, not a fully accepted or proven fact like the earth is round and revolves around the sun. The problem here is that any scientific theory, by definition, must be stated in such a way that it can be disproven. The theory of evolution could be disproven or at least modified if fossils were found that did not fit our current understanding of the earth’s timeline and development of species. Intelligent design/creationism is not a scientific theory because it cannot be disproven, and thus, it does not belong in the science curriculum.

  8. comment number 8 by: wjk

    i think this thread needs a comment booster.

    So, there are Korean Christians who say that they should evangelize to basically any place that would give them an entry visa.

    But, interestingly, they say, but not Japan.

    To a Christian, it is a humane duty to evangelize, so that fellow man will enjoy the after life.

    But, interestingly, many Korean Christians will say, but not to Japan. Let them go to hell in the after life.

    What do you think about this?

    I think there are a few Korean Christians who evangelize in Japan, though.

    In addition, it is well known that any society with a lot of income, no lack of food, and thus lack of needs that can’t be solved independtly closes its mind to any need of religion.

  9. comment number 9 by: tomato

    Actually, I don’t think that evolutionary theory will be disproved in the near or even in the distant future….it’s pretty rock hard. I don’t buy the story that since nobody lived long enough to actually see evolution, it could never be proven enough.

    In fact, humans are using the same mechanism to create breeds of animals or plants. To give another example, scientists have used genetic signs that are proven to be transmitted from parents to their heirs to track down that Homo Sapiens come from a single source. And the genetic diversity of sub-Saharan Africans compared to the scarcity of Eurasians strongly suggest the common source to be Africa, and that out-of-Africa happened only once that generated the Eurasian peoples. And now we have different races…it would be amazing if there had been multiple races all along when the single group of people came out of Africa…so I’m pretty much convinced that people somehow evolved into different races after out-of-Africa. According to creationism, the races would had to have been created by God…now that sounds alarming.

    Anyways, creationism is, as Sonagi says (and I agree), a religious belief, and under the US Constitution, it should be separated from the schools for the sake of religious tolerance. I see what’s actually happening when you try to force schools to teach “alternative theories” or not teach evolution, is forcing in fundamentalism…which looks pretty scary to me. I think the Supreme Court has got this one right.

  10. comment number 10 by: tomato

    wjk,

    Keep your Japan-hate for another time when Korea does it again.

  11. comment number 11 by: Sonagi

    If that’s the case, wjk, it sounds like Korean Christians are Koreans first, Christians second, meaning they put hatred of Japan and the Japanese above the Christian value of unconditional love. Is Jesus’ saying “Love thy enemies” not taught in Korean churches?

    tomato wrote:

    Anyways, creationism is, as Sonagi says (and I agree), a religious belief, and under the US Constitution, it should be separated from the schools for the sake of religious tolerance.

    It’s not that creationism is a religious belief. It’s that it’s NOT science. There is no scientific evidence that I know of to support it and, as I pointed out previously, it cannot even past muster as unproven theory because scientific theories must be able to be proven false. I agree with you that the evidence in favor of evolution is very strong and continues to accumulate, but nevertheless, scientists say that almost all science is not facts but theories not yet disproven and that our understanding of ourselves, our world, and our universe is continually being revised. A favorite quote from a scientist: Science always gives us new frontiers.

    Religion is a fundamental characteristic of human societies, just like government and family structure and thus belongs in the social studies curriculum.

  12. comment number 12 by: Sonagi

    And it’s ironic that the US Constitution has not kept “intelligent design” out of the science curriculum. Just last summer, a Kansas school district made national headlines when its board of education voted to include intelligent design in the school curriculum. I don’t have any problem teaching creationism; I just have no idea how to present it as science.

    Getting back to original topic of An Inconvenient Truth, while the newsmaking dissenter was an evangelical Christian, the movie has drawn criticism from secular rightwingers and libertarians. I do not know what scientific evidence there is against global warming, but I do know that there are well-educated, non-religious people who remain unconvinced. Just this morning at the local farmers’ market, the organic farmer I buy my produce from poo-pooed global warming. She has been farming since 1980 and said that weather is cyclical and varies from place to place. East of the Rockies has been warmer than usual this winter, but the west coast from California to Alaska has been pounded with rain and snow with temperatures cooler than average. Back in 1989, said the farmer, it was the opposite: colder and snowier in the east, warmer and drier in the west. This year is an El Nino year, which at least partly explains the strange weather in the US.

    Frosty Hardison is a nutjob, but the school board is right: there is compelling evidence for global warming, yet not everyone accepts it as a fact. A good post-video discussion must acknowledge dissenting views and present any countering evidence.

  13. comment number 13 by: tomato

    And it’s ironic that the US Constitution has not kept “intelligent design” out of the science curriculum. Just last summer, a Kansas school district made national headlines when its board of education voted to include intelligent design in the school curriculum. I don’t have any problem teaching creationism; I just have no idea how to present it as science.

    I think it has. The US Supreme Courts have ruled against teaching creationism. However, unlike the Supreme Court cases on discrimination, which people do observe, religious groups have elected to ingore the Supreme Court judgment. I’m kind of concerned because when it comes to God, some people in America seems to lose tolerance. I thought that Christianity was about tolerance and love.

  14. comment number 14 by: wjk

    global warming is not due to any tremendous change in US co2 production.

    The answer is a tremendous increase in mainland Chinese industry CO 2 production.

    You can’t prove that US plants are suddenly using coal or that US cars are using dirtier gasoline.

    Rather, it is clearly explained in the fact that very few Chinese now ride a bicycle to work in Beijing. Gasoline is less than 2 dollars a gallon and people drive cars.

    Hwang Sa was not a big problem in Seoul around the early 90’s. Now it’s a perrenial problem. It’s time for the Chinese to clean up, or the weather abnormalities will only continue. People are blaming the wrong person, Bush. Try the Chinese Communist Party.

  15. comment number 15 by: Sonagi

    In defense of the Chinese, their overall energy usage is far less than that of the US, and their economy supports 1.2 billion people. Is China supposed to remain underdeveloped so that we Americans can drive our SUVs and regulate the temperatures of our 3,000 square feet homes? It’s time for the world’s people to cooperate in developing alternative energy resources. Oil is not a renewable resource. I have faith that humans will find real replacements for oil and coal, but not until their dwindling supplies make them prohibitively expensive. According to our school’s custodian, one of our town’s residents developed a hybrid-type vehicle back in the 1940s; his patent was bought by an oil company and consigned to the dustbin. He believes that oil companies have been using money to actively suppress the development of feasible alternative energy resources. Americans seem to have a fondness for conspiracy theories, but it would not surprise me to learn that oil companies do hold patents to alternative energy. technology.

  16. comment number 16 by: wjk

    Oil companies usually don’t just sell oil. They are more likely energy companies. That story has true parts and some speculation. The oil company didn’t just buy the patent so it could hide it. It bought it so it could make money off another form of energy. They probably thought it was not profitable, so they shelfed it. Happens a lot in research and development.

    The Chinese are more worrisome to me, if I buy into a lot of South Korean news, which claim that the Chinese put in metal waste into fishes, so they’ll weigh more. The Chinese spray their export veges with indiscriminate amounts of pesticides and chems, so they’ll look appetizing and have less bugs.

    I think the yearly Hwang Sa phenomenon is visual proof that China needs more restraints in pollution production.

    When alternative energy becomes profitable, companies like Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, will be selling them.

    It might seem like they’re just buying patents and shelving them, but that I don’t believe is true. Besides, why would they doom themselves in the long run by running out of things to sell? A good energy company actively seeks other places to get oil from and other forms of energy production, wind, solar, nuke, etc.

  17. comment number 17 by: Errol

    People are blaming the wrong person, Bush. Try the Chinese Communist Party.

    This reminds me of the Korean Problem Flowchart.

    Instead of addressing the problem the representative from the USA (which as Sonagi notes is much worse than China) blames someone else.

    The ol’ Bart Simpson Defence.

    “We didn’t do it, no one caught us, you can’t prove anything”

  18. comment number 18 by: Darin

    Sorry to backtrack a little but:

    So, there are Korean Christians who say that they should evangelize to basically any place that would give them an entry visa.

    But, interestingly, they say, but not Japan.

    To a Christian, it is a humane duty to evangelize, so that fellow man will enjoy the after life.

    But, interestingly, many Korean Christians will say, but not to Japan. Let them go to hell in the after life.

    What do you think about this?

    What do I think about it? I think your statement isn’t correct and you’re just trying to start some trouble for fun.

    I see plenty of Korean run churches all over here, and since they write their signs in Japanese as well as Korean, I think it’s safe to say they wont turn anyone away.

  19. comment number 19 by: Sonagi

    wjk wrote:

    The Chinese are more worrisome to me, if I buy into a lot of South Korean news, which claim that the Chinese put in metal waste into fishes, so they’ll weigh more. The Chinese spray their export veges with indiscriminate amounts of pesticides and chems, so they’ll look appetizing and have less bugs.

    Well, you shouldn’t put too much stock in Korean news stories about Chinese agricultural and marine exports. I recall seeing such news items and viewing them as blatant propaganda aimed at scaring Korean consumers away from buying Chinese products. In the summer of 2000, it was lead pellets in blue crabs. The following summer’s blockbuster badguy was some other fish. Reporters would prowl produce markets like the one in Karak, thrusting pieces of garlic in front of the camera, asking consumers to judge which one was Korean (the plump, fresh-looking one, of course) and which one was Chinese (the shriveled, rotten one, of course). I’ve bought garlic here in the eastern US, and if garlic can make this far without looking rotten, Koreans can certainly find decent Chinese garlic in local markets. When I first arrived in China from Korea, I was pleasantly surprised at how appealing the produce looked.

    As for spraying, well, US produce is heavily sprayed and I would guess Korean produce is, too. Chemical use does vary by country and by fruit or vegetable. Fruits are generally high in residue while some vegetables are very low and not worth paying more for organic versions.

    The key, wjk, is empowered, informed consumer choice. Independent test data on produce residues and fish contamination is available online, and US food labeling is more detailed than Korean or Chinese. Rather than hysterical media attacks on Chinese food imports, it would be better if reliable independent consumer groups tested domestic and imported products and made the results available to the public.

    I think the yearly Hwang Sa phenomenon is visual proof that China needs more restraints in pollution production.

    My understanding is that the origin of the annual spring dust storms is the expanding desertification of western China. The eastern border of the desert is creeping nearer and nearer to Beijing. Beijingers have it much worse than Seoulites, and even the Emperor and his court in Zhongnanhai cannot avoid breathing in the stuff. The Chinese government is tackling the problem by planting trees and grasses to anchor the soil, but the desert keeps moving.

  20. comment number 20 by: Errol

    wjk Said:

    January 13, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    The oil company didn’t just buy the patent so it could hide it.

    Didn’t they? Just like Alfred P. Sloan of General Motors didn’t buy up streetcar companies to rip up the tracks so people had to use buses made by …

    I wonder which company.

    They even named the Graduate School of Management at MIT the Sloan School of Management. No oil company execs have studied at one of the most famous Schools of Management in the USA?

    Naïveté or Hermit Kingdom follow the seonbae? Is there a difference?

    Big companies, big seonbae and big husband only have your welfare
    at heart.

  21. comment number 21 by: wjk

    So, Errol, do you also fit my 80% are Japanese or had a relation with a Korean woman model?

    Gasp ! You do !

    GM is not an energy company. Exxon-Mobil is. GM going versus a streetcar company is a different kind of market and competition. Admit it.

    All major US universities will name a school or building after you, if you give them enough money. This, I have witnessed with my own eyes. Also, if it has been quite a while since you gave money, and some new guy comes along with enough money, they name it something new.

    What does that have anything to do with Hermit Kingdom crap, huh?

    Big companies only have the profit in their concerns. The wiseman buys stocks and bonds in that big company.

    And, F*ck you.

  22. comment number 22 by: wjk

    and, I don’t lie. Sad as it is, it is the truth that I present. Some opinions, some truths, but no lies.

    Errol, I apologize for flicking you off, but you were basically doing a long winded one, too, with the big husband/hermit kingdom/big seonbae.

    I don’t need a husband. I have a dick.

    I, having been educated in the US, never ever kissed up to any seonbae.

  23. comment number 23 by: Errol

    wjk Said:

    January 13, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    GM is not an energy company. Exxon-Mobil is. GM going versus a streetcar company is a different kind of market and competition. Admit it.

    Not that different.

    What is your obsession with miscegenation with Korean women? The discussion is about fundamentalism and propaganda. Therefore cultural pressures that lead to naive acceptance of actions that are not in the best interest of the consumer, the hubae and the wife are pertinent observations.

    I, having been educated in the US, never ever kissed up to any seonbae.

    In Korea it’s much more difficult to resist the power of the big company, the seonbae or the husband.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the downtrodden consumers, hubae and women of Korea.

    My cynicism (which you perceive as hate) is reserved for the leeches of big government, big companies, the seonbae and the minority (45%) of abusive husbands who all claim to have the best interests of consumers, hubae and wives at heart i.e. keep out U.S. cheap beef, pay you peanuts as an intern and a few slaps around the face are good for you.

    Be glad you live in a free country.

  24. comment number 24 by: Sonagi

    Darin wrote:

    see plenty of Korean run churches all over here, and since they write their signs in Japanese as well as Korean, I think it’s safe to say they wont turn anyone away.

    I don’t think they would turn anyone away, either, but the Japanese signage may be aimed as much at ethnic Koreans who do not speak Korean.

  25. comment number 25 by: Darin

    Hmm… That’s an interesting point. I’ll ask some Korean students at school tomorrow who I know go to church what its like at their church.

  26. comment number 26 by: GarlicBreath

    WJK:

    So, there are Korean Christians who say that they should evangelize to basically any place that would give them an entry visa.

    But, interestingly, they say, but not Japan.

    To a Christian, it is a humane duty to evangelize, so that fellow man will enjoy the after life.

    But, interestingly, many Korean Christians will say, but not to Japan. Let them go to hell in the after life.

    What do you think about this?

    Frankly I am not suprised. I also think hell will be full of these types of Koreans.

  27. comment number 27 by: wiesunja

    WJK:

    So, there are Korean Christians who say that they should evangelize to basically any place that would give them an entry visa.

    But, interestingly, they say, but not Japan.

    To a Christian, it is a humane duty to evangelize, so that fellow man will enjoy the after life.

    But, interestingly, many Korean Christians will say, but not to Japan. Let them go to hell in the after life.

    What do you think about this?

    Interesting that a Korean, wjk, brought this point up after hearing the same observation from so many foreigners who have spent time or have experience in the Far East and were shocked and turned off from seeing how fundamentalist Christianity had been embraced so fervently by Koreans. The fact that Korea is the only nation in the region which has embraced a fanatical religion associated with blind obedience, dogmatic principles, ignorance and intolerance of other viewpoints, and contempt for others who are different from oneself really speaks multitudes about their national character. In that point, thank God (no pun intended) that Japan or China, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. has not been polluted by the ugliness and fanatical/psychotic brainwashing that comes with fundamentalist Christian teachings. On the other hand, it is hardly surprising at all that a philosophy/religion such as fundamentalist Christianity has been so successful in Korea…the country and its culture are pretty the ideal breeding ground for such a religion since its people already think like that! Thus, it is no surprise that fundamentalist Christianity thrives in societies with a very uneducated, ignorant, racist and backwards thinking environment such as third world countries, redneck towns in the South, etc. Christianity does not thrive very well in societies where rational scientific thinking, logic, and the pursuit of truth are the norm which is good. Thus, I am very happy that Japan remains rather devoid of these Christian fanatics who are probably some of the most scary psychos on the planet. Thus, Koreans should just accept the fact that only those societies who share the common beliefs of ignorance, bigotry, fear/hatred of anything different from one’s own, etc. will accept their selfish, obnoxious proselytizing. Please Koreans…keep your garbage to yourselves and don’t feel the need to spread it where it is not needed. Fundamentalist Christianity and Korea deserve each other to a T.

  28. comment number 28 by: wjk

    Fundamentalist Christians don’t harm anyone physically in anyway. If they bother you, it’s probably just your brain that itches.

    Fundamentalist Muslims will harm you physically.

    Proselytizing is not a requirement for the Hindus, the Buddhist, Shinto, Taoism, or Judaism. The Empire of Japan, did force Shinto shrines and Emperor worship on Koreans. Debate this if you want.

    Interestingly, Jewish rabbis will say that they don’t know what will happen in the after life, except that people will probably be with their loved ones. I spoke to one.

    Fundamentalist Christians do more charity and giving away than most groups. Although the aid is most probably tied to proselytizing. Rarely do any cause anyone physical harm. Except some groups, which are labeled by the majority of Christians as cults anyway. David Koresh of Waco Texas, Moonies, sexual relations as requirements, etc. Most of these cults almost unanimously claim that a specific man who is living now and visually present is the new Jesus. Of the non cults, I can only think of anti abortion groups.

    Kato, one of Hideyoshi Japan’s generals was a Catholic Christian. As I understand, Hiroshima or Nagasaki was also a Japanese Christian area. I think it’s Hiroshima.

    USA is almost 40 to 50% Christian, whether they are Catholic or Protestant. Lot of Irish and Italians and Polish are still majorly Catholic in the US. Most of the English speaking countries, such as the United Kingdom and Australia are also largely Christian. More so than France. Germany is a lot more Christian than you think, too. Italy, Spain and Portugal are still significantly Catholic.

    At least 2/3 of the world believes in the God of Abraham, whether they are of Judaism, Christian, or Muslim.

  29. comment number 29 by: wjk

    if some Christian group says the new Jesus is here and they want you to have sex with the new Jesus as requirement, it’s a good sign you should run away.

  30. comment number 30 by: wjk

    change Kato to Konishi

  31. comment number 31 by: Matt

    if some Christian group says the new Jesus is here and they want you to have sex with the new Jesus as requirement, it’s a good sign you should run away.

    That is so funny because it is true. How many cults have tried to do just that? I have heard of a few.

  32. comment number 32 by: Errol

    if some Christian group says the new Jesus is here and they want you to have sex with the new Jesus as requirement, it’s a good sign you should run away.

    One of the links I followed from garlicbreath’s link indicated that most victims are unaware of the activities of the JSM leader until it was too late to run away.
    \

    If you are naive it’s easy to be deceived by the blind obedience cultivated by Seonbae culture.

    The seonbae culture also forces vulnerable women to obey their powerful seonbae during university MT (Membership Training) and even to support the belief that the Liancourt Rocks were legally occupied by Lee Seung-man.

    Resistance is futile.

  33. comment number 33 by: wiesunja

    I guess we are all in agreement for once….bigoted, ignorant Christian psychos and Koreans…totally compatible and a good match for each other. Coincidence? Hardly…

  34. comment number 34 by: wjk

    why do I bother posting in this retarded site which gathers retarded people like wiesunja and Garlic. I don’t agree with you or Errol. My stats which can be confirmed at cia’s world factbook were written to counter you, wiesunja. Have a nice bigoted life, wiesunja. I’m taking myself out of the cesspool.

  35. comment number 35 by: wiesunja

    My stats which can be confirmed at cia’s world factbook were written to counter you, wiesunja.

    I am not sure what you are referring to here since I really didn’t bring up any stats. However, if you are referring to Korean christians commenting on how Japan is a very difficult target for their proselytizing, I am not denying it at all. As a matter of fact, I am in total agreement about it…but unlike you, I am thankful for it and consider a very good thing for Japan that they are spared the intrusive and poisoning of fundamentalist Christianity preaching from Koreans. Furthermore, I really dont think Japanese people give two shits about Koreans not choosing to proselytize them. For all Japanese people care, the Koreans are doing them a big favor by choosing not to pollute their country with their psycho religion. Thus, every side is happy…agreed?

    I’m taking myself out of the cesspool.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out, wjk. I think that most here will agree that noone except that psycho bigot, Koreanmaster, will miss you. Have a nice day!

  36. comment number 36 by: ponta

    wjk

    wjk Said:

    January 13, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    i think this thread needs a comment booster.

    It is interesting that you are the one who intoroduced Korean issue here on this post, and you are the one who got angy and leaving because of comments on Korean issue.

    Anyway, I’ll welcome you anytime you visit here.

  37. comment number 37 by: ponta

    wjk
    BTW it is well known there were Japanese Christians during Hideyoshi period, but it is also well known that the population of Japanese Christians has rarely increased.
    Maybe for Japanese Christian God is just one of kami, gods which should be worshiped.

    “Love your enemy” is a great wisdom of Christianity.
    For Buddhism, there is no enemy in the first place,: he is just a part of yourself.
    Not falsifiable statements and hence they are not scientific but science is not about everything. I am not sure if your five finger university ha taught that.

  38. comment number 38 by: Darin

    Yes wjk, the discussion was going fine until you personally said something about Korea(ns), then refused to let the topic venture away from anything other then Korea(ns), and now are complaining about how people are talking about Korea(ns). I really don’t see how you are in a position to complain about the mess you just made. I’m really not pleased with how my post about fundamentalist christians in America has become about Korean Christians either, but you’re the one that made it happen this way.

  39. comment number 39 by: bad_moon_rising

    Darin Said:
    Okay, so beyond all the obvious stupidity of these guys, lets take a look at the extreme stupidity in here.

    There may be a genetic cause behind all this “stupidity”.

    Dr Hamer, who attracted controversy in 1993 when he claimed to have found a DNA sequence linked to male homosexuality, said the presence of the gene VMAT2, termed the “god gene”, explains why some people are spiritually inclined while others have no interest in such matters at all.

    The research also claims that being brought up in a religious environment had little effect on belief.

    The findings are based on a study of 2,000 DNA samples and interviews with volunteers, who answered 226 questions that aimed to find out how spiritually in tune they felt with the universe.

    Dr Hamer said his research, published in the book The God Gene: How Faith is Hard-Wired into Our Genes, showed the greater the volunteers’ ability to believe in a higher spiritual being, the more likely they were to have the VMAT2 gene.

    See Churches attack ‘god gene’ claim by scientist
    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1316232004

    Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old.
    The fundamentalist Christians are out breeding the rest of us. We must catch up.

    If the fundamentalist Christians are “out breeding the rest of us” and predisposition to fundamentalist belief is genetic, then it stands to reason that the problem will only get worse in the future.

    For those looking into debunking Christianity, http://jesusneverexisted.com/ offers some informative articles.

  40. comment number 40 by: eli

    This is a pretty idiotic rant on Darin’s part. It’s not “terrorism” to involve oneself in the political process to have curriculums changed, it’s only terrorism when you threaten them with violence. Christians in the US aren’t blowing themselves up anywhere so there’s no terrorism in this story. If Darin can’t tell the difference maybe he should spend some time in the middle east?

    And by the way, Muslims ARE trying to impose their views on the US:

    http://www.nysun.com/article/46220?page_no=2

  41. comment number 41 by: Fantasy

    Eli:

    you sure have got a point.

    However, Darin is right in so far as to say SOME fundamentalist Christians are as intolerant as MANY members of the Muslim community.

    The main difference is that Christians, even fundamentalist ones, are usually not nearly as aggressive as are many followers of Islam.

  42. comment number 42 by: fool1shmortal

    I want to first say, Matt, I love the site! Too many eyes are glazed over by cheap living expenses, easy women, and other personal preferences and do not see the other side. I, personally, am irritated by the lack of logic. I agree with them that globalization is a bad idea as people in Asian lands sold out their culture, but accepting ideas that work, like soap and toilet paper in all bathrooms (not a big expense), should be looked into. There are other things, more philosophical, they could look into, such as, if they are into harmony of differences, why did the execute Christians who represented otherness? Why do they fear the antithesis of their culture, if they harmonize different things? The truth is, they know it’s bullshit, but they can’t admit it. They have nothing else and will not adopt the more logical Western Civilization, where Christian charity bonds people and not a false peace that ignores truth. Not all Westerners have that charity, but it exists to be used alongside truth. Now, if that ain’t harmony, what is? S. Korea is in for a big surprise, I think! If they don’t stand up for truth and their kids get tired of Confucianism, what’s left for their society? Its time to leave the dark ages for them and for Westerners who like the ways of pre-Christian Europe.

    Now, I’ll say that, since the 20th century, the communists have shoved their beliefs down children’s throats or else (hell, even down college students’ throats while saying they’re open-minded. The first info. Mao had students learn was not his little red book, but Darwinism. I think the “God is dead” thing was there to clean our palettes before the hated economic and soviet communism was replaced by the NWO order communism with Captain Planet, the new messiah, and environmentalists’ favorite new deity, Gaia. The cartoon actually had a Gaia character! Programming (more like “reprogramming) for kids.

    Of course, macroevolution has been taught as dogma or else. Like one said, Newton’s theory was replaced, but apparently stronger special interests weren’t behind its longevity. Scientists could not disprove, as hoax, statues of the Virgin Mary or Jesus that weeped water, blood, or real tears, but there’s no empirical evidence of one species becoming another. It didn’t matter in the first place as Bif Science of the day bought Piltdown Man without rthe scientific method. They took their incredulosity higher with a movie about panevolution. Well, if not Gaia making us, maybe aliens–anything like Gaia or a Bohemian Grove bird or Anyone (God) that makes us responsible for our actions, sophmorically excused with scientific jargon, or a new Pax Romanus difficult must go in these days. Unfortunately, Hitler provided us, on a minor model, a sign of what was being cooked up.

    Christian Fundies seem to be too Republican, whereas very conservative and traditionalist Catholics are socially conservative, but see the Iraq War as suspicious. I have to wonder if the terrorists are working as shock troops for the NWO and don’t know it–ripping up the Christian world served on a plate by commies and other Masonic types of the 20th century after they have done enough depopulating and historicocriticism to weaken the resolve of the West so the countries can be assembled under one governance. I think, for that matter, Fundie Protestants are assisting the NWO, unwittingly, I’m sure, but under exploited bias. When they foolishly accuse the Pope and the Jesuits as running the world, are they serving the Masons? I wonder.

    The Jesuits are weak and the Pope gets trashed for going to the UN to advise that bunch of neo-pagan Romans about peace as they probably wonder when they’ll have enough power to storm their ideological adversary in Rome (the one that, despite its crisis, has not formally changed their controversial dogmas and is becoming more bold under the current Pope).

    It will be a head-butting. Some think the blood of the martyrs will break the grip of the Chinese communists (I understand parastroika was foreplanned by Marx or Lenin, probably Marx, before Pres. Reagan, the last pope and Gorbachev seemed to have brought down the iron curtain).

    Until then, the left-wing will be teaching any ol’ thing, because the origins of man and the universe have very political implications–ones that would weaken the faith of many to be replaced by another faith (possibly a messianic figure of environmentalists or science fiction atheists). Christianity built the West and civilized the world. If you can’t beat it, play a flute that tickles its members ears and lead them away. Practically beaten, they’ll be able to rebuild the world in their own image, whether they have gods like Hitler or none, like Stalin. Real charity will be replaced with cold, pragmatism by the government and other lost souls who abort and euthenize believing it’s mercy or for someone else’s good–Stalin’s useful idiots, if they believe that; fellow travellers, if that’s what they tell the well-meaners.

    All this will be done based upon heresay by “experts” or scare tactics in the universities and relevant fields of research and practice.
    Those are my non-supernaturally-revealed or otherwise seen prophesies. I could be wrong