Occidentalism
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Gerry Bevers writes about Dokdo/Takeshima

May 10th, 2006 . by Matt

Frequent commenter and blogger Gerry Bevers has started a series of articles about the history of Takeshima/Dokdo. As is usual in any discussion about this subject, there has been an explosive amount of comments on his blog and fierce debate. Gerry says this series will be ongoing, so by all means, check it out!

Here is the first article and the second article. Lets hope for many more from Gerry.


985 Responses to “Gerry Bevers writes about Dokdo/Takeshima”

  1. comment number 1 by: ponta

    JK
    Thanks
    The point is,according to your view on history of Korea, 80% Koreans “bravey” rejected speaking Japanese while your relatives chose to speak Japanese so fluently that Japanese can not tell them from native Japanese..I don’t intend to disparage your family at all.
    I think your relative did well under Japanese rule.I think every Korean people did well to survive, to be promoted, in her/his own way under Japanese rule.

    I am stating the logical consequece of your view of Korea with the fact about your relatives.If you don’t like it.then you might as well correct your view on Korea under Japanese rule,based on the solid evidences rather than myth.Probably it is your anti-pro-Japanese Korean- attitude that is agnoizing your relatives,though you might not realize it.

  2. comment number 2 by: ponta

    It takes a lot of efforts to speak foreign language just as well as native speakers.It is not good enough that it was taught at school,it is not good enough that you like it,you need enthusiastic mind to speak foreign language.just as well as native speakers.
    You said your relatives spoke Japanese so nicely that Japanese could not tell them from native Japanese.Majority of Koreans could not speak like that.That is one reason why Norht Korea kidnapped Japanese.
    Nothing is wrong with your relatives speaking Japanese well..But something is wrong with your view on history about Korea under Japanese rule.

  3. comment number 3 by: pacifist

    JK,

    The Governor General’s Office compiled statistics in 1941 and reported that 14% of Korean people could speak Japanese, including the beginners of Japanese language.
    JK, it’s an official statistics.

    So the story that all of the Koreans were forced to speak Japanese is merely a fabrication, fabricated by anti-Japan Korean government.

    On the contrary, the Governor General’s Office encouraged Japanese officials to learn and speak Korean language.
    As I showed before, there were Korean language textbooks and newspapers were written in Chinese charcter with hanglu.

  4. comment number 4 by: JK

    Pacifist, what is your source? Imperial Japanese again??? During the late thirties and early forties, the Japanese tried to obliterate the Korean language and culture. And you quote something from a governor who served the dastardly imperial Japanese?

  5. comment number 5 by: JK

    Again, you use imperial Japanese sources. We know how reliable THEY are, pacifist. Next time use Nazi German sources…more reliable.

    Of course many Koreans could not speak Japanese! Many Koreans at that time were illiterate! If you include the uneducated classes, then yes, many Koreans could not speak Japanese.

    It does not change that Japanese was taught in schools through compulsory education.

    I cannot believe you are trying to justify Japanese colonization of Korea still. That is why outside readers of this blog will never side with you.

  6. comment number 6 by: pacifist

    JK,

    I suppose your family members who spoke fluent Japanese were good at school. This is not a flattery. Actually all the Japanese speaking Korean people I met in Korea look brilliant. The economic or political leaders in Korea after WWII are frequently good speakers of Japanese. Some of them learnt in Japanese universities.

    It means something, JK.
    Japanese language in those days was a kind of English today. If you wish to go abroad to study something, you should learn English first. At that time, people with enterprising spirits learned Japanese.

    Of course, there was a need to have a common language in the society including elementary schools etc, but unfortunately NOT all of the korean people could speak Japanese language well.

    JK, your brain is filled with prejudices. The sources you hate are not always wrong. Why can you say all the Japanese sources are wrong? You must see the truth, without prejudices.

    A few years ago Chosun Nibo (朝鮮日報) reported that several Korean movies during the war were found in China. These were movies in Korean language, although the newspaper decided that they were “jin-il-pa” movies. But these may show you that Korean language was not prohibitted.

    JK, you msut see the truth.

  7. comment number 7 by: pacifist

    JK,

    Here is a book written by ex-police-based-bureaucrat of Gevonor General’s Office in Seoul, although it was written in Japanese.

    http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4794213565/250-7420216-4262657?v=glance&n=465392

    In this book, the author, a graduate from Seoul Imperial University (today’s Seoul University) , disclosed that Korean language was freely spoken and that Korean language was a compulsory subject for lower class policemen. As a matter of fact, Korean language was not prohibitted. JK, if you can’t believe this, I must say that you are brainwashed by distorted education.

    He also wrote that if they tried to oppressively control Koreans it wouldn’t be successful because there were only 700,000 Japanese residents within Korean peninnsula whilst Korean people were 30,000,000. So they didn’t do oppressive maneuvers to keep the society safe. The society was managed in an amicable manner with both Japanese and Korean people’s help.

  8. comment number 8 by: pacifist

    JK,

    I found out a newspaper advertisement of Governor General’s Office (Railroad Bureau) in 1928.

    http://www.platon.co.jp/~kei/korea/old/life/etc/rail.jpg

    Did you see that hanglu was used in the advertisement?

  9. comment number 9 by: pacifist

    JK,

    Here is a textbook used for upper grade of elementary school during the colonial era.

    http://f25.aaa.livedoor.jp/~zflag/mirrors/kiryaku/6-bun.jpg

    Here is a textbook of moral training (修身) for lower grade.
    Please note both hanglu and Japanese kana were used.

    http://f25.aaa.livedoor.jp/~zflag/mirrors/kiryaku/shusin2.jpg

    This is a guidebook for teachers. Both hanglu and Japanese were used, maybe for both Korean and Japanese teachers.

    http://f25.aaa.livedoor.jp/~zflag/mirrors/kiryaku/shushin.jpg

  10. comment number 10 by: ponta

    JK
    I am not justifying colonization.The colonization in any sense was wrong.I think just as American annexasion of Hawai,and colonization of Philipine was wrong,Japanese colonization of Korea was wrong.
    At the same time, I don’t deny the colonization brought about modernization that could not be accomplished if Korea was left to itself.I respect Korean people who worked hard for Korea with Japanese because they loved Korea.
    People had to live with or without colonization.Korean people did well in their own way under Japanese rule.Some people chose to assimilate into Japanese and chose to speak Japanese as fluently as native Japanese just like your relatives..That was their choice.I respect their choice..What is wrong with Filipino speaking English?Nothing is wrong with that.Just like that, nothing’s wrong with your relative speaking Japanese.
    Most people did not chose it, either because they had no chance or they rejected it.
    More than 300,000 young Korean men volountarily chose to become soldiers under Japanese regime.That was their choice.
    Think of it.They might be brainwashed just as Japanese people were brainwashed during the war.They had wrong imformation about the cause of the war;They had wrong imformation about what was happening in the Asian countries.But you can not deny the fact that so many Korean young men decided volountarily to fight and sacrifice their lives in the name of Japanese Imperial army.
    Japan had no interest in telling a lie about the number of Korean who applied volountarily for Japanese Army, about the number of Korean who were rejected.Japan needed an accurate imformation about it.
    Some of the present Koreans has an interest in denying this simple fact because they want to believe their grandfathers were just a victim ,because they are educated to hate Japan..

    Something goes wrong when you accuse Koreans who collobrated japanese just like your relatives..Those who colloborated Japense contributed to Korean society,but the present Korean society can not think that way.
    Some of them might have been bad people not because they were colloborator but because they exploited the poor.But the present Korean government can not think that way because of its hate policy toward Japan.
    If you have differet perspective, you can live for the future without hurting your relatives while evaluating the past appropriately.

    I don’t give a damn.I am just giving you facts based on evidences..It is Korean problem.I learned through Korea that the hatred,and the victim mentality are counterproductive,they
    backlash, they will destroy the coutry.
    Korean people have to live with the President Roh two more years.That means they have to live with the hate policy another two years.
    Don’t blame others for that.I think they should take it.I also think it is unlikely those who Korean people cursed are going to help Korea.
    Good luck.

  11. comment number 11 by: JK

    Oh pacifist you are truly brainwashed by the other Japanese nationalists. First you try to convince me that Japan took over and annexed Korea for the sake of “liberating” Korea, then second, you try to convince me that my relatives and other Koreans were not FORCED to communicate in Japanese in their schools. They were. And by the thirties and forties, usage of the Korean language was not even allowed in Korea.

    I realize you are trying to filibuster me and argue and argue till what you say becomes truth somehow, but saying your lies over and over again will not make what you say any more truer.

  12. comment number 12 by: JK

    Ponta wrote:
    “Something goes wrong when you accuse Koreans who collobrated japanese just like your relatives..”

    Now you are being intentionally crafty and catty, ponta. My family members did NOT collaborate with the Japanese, and you saying that just because they learned to communicate in Japanese (because they were forced to) is sickening. They HATED living under Japanese rule and they HATED having to speak in Japanese and to adopt Japanese names. Don’t you DARE make such insinuations about my family again. YOUR family after all was part of a nation that not only shamefully took Korea and tried to force its people to adopt Japanese ways so that they could be treated as lower-class Japanese but who also took by force 4/5 of Korea’s rice production to feed the real Japanese population. Nothing altruistic about that. YOUR family was part of a nation that launched a cowardly attack on Pearl Harbor and thus the US justifiably dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Now I suggest you not disrespect my family again lest I respond in kind. And trust me, I can be quite brutal with my words. You really don’t want to go there.

  13. comment number 13 by: ponta

    They HATED living under Japanese rule and they HATED having to speak in Japanese and to adopt Japanese names.

    I can tell they said that.I feel sorry they are forced to say that just because the present hate policy of Korea against Japan

    Don’t you DARE make such insinuations about my family again

    It is not insiniation but logical consequence.Only 20 % could speak Japanese.That is one reason why North Korea kidnapped Japanese.You said your relatives could speak Japanese so fluently that you can not tell them from Japanese.
    That is right,you can not tell them from Japanese;You know what it means,don’t you?.It is really hard to master foreign language just like that.in a situation where 80% of Koreans simply did not speak or rejected speaking Japanese.regardless of the fact that ,according to your theory, they were forced to speak Japanese.

    YOUR family after all was part of a nation that not only shamefully took Korea and tried to force its people to adopt Japanese ways so that they could be treated as lower-class Japanese but who also took by force 4/5 of Korea’s rice production to feed the real Japanese population. Nothing altruistic about that. YOUR family was part of a nation that launched a cowardly attack on Pearl Harbor and thus the US justifiably dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and

    It seems it was so shocking the truth about your family that you reacted emotionally.Take care.

    Now I suggest you not disrespect my family again

    I respect you family.I repect the way your family chose to live.Against most of Koreans,they chose to speak Japanse like native JapaneseProbably it is you who disrepect your family.I respect Koreans who fought against Japan based on the belief,.I respect Koreans who worked hard despite some racial slur they received from Japanese.I respect Koreans who lived a hard life whatever the regime.I respect Koreans who worked for Korea along with Japanese.I respect Koreans who wanted to be like Japanese.They chose their way and they contributed to Korea as it is in their own way.I don’t know why you can not see this point.

    . And trust me, I can be quite brutal with my words. You really don’t want to go there.

    Don’t worry I trust you.You have proved it already.But calm down next time you explode, people will not trust anything you say. I suggest you to cool down.I don’t understand why the logical argument upset you so much .Is it the case that you family will be bashed so severely if Korean people know they are one of 20 % who could speak Japanese and probably one of the best speakers of Japanese in a situation where,accoding to your view on Korea under Japanese rule, Koreans was scornful of Japanese and hence most Koreans did not speak Japanese? I am curious.

  14. comment number 14 by: JK

    Ponta wrote:

    “Probably it is you who disrepect your family.”

    Boy, you really don’t know when to stop.

    I respect my family. Never EVER say I do not respect my family. You disrespect your own family by having to lie about what their true cowardly role from 1910-1945 against Koreans and other people of Asia as well as America.

    I reacted strongly to you labeling my family as “collaborators.” Never EVER say my family collaborated with the hated Japanese. And to hate Japan because it forced its own ways and language on Korea is not part of some “present hate” policy. My family and their friends are JUSTIFIABLY angry with Japan for what it did and Koreans have ALWAYS been angry with Japan because of the colonization, LONG before the present day. And because my family members had to survive by learning Japanese, you then say that they are collaborators???? Where is your logic??

    Make any more references abot my family, Ponta, and you will get the same back again. I suggest you stop now.
    I have a WHOLE lot more to say about your family and the dastardly things I am sure they did before and during WWII.

  15. comment number 15 by: ponta

    Jk by the way it is a good chance to show to everyone that one Korean-American can control emotion and maintain the debate intellectually.Good luck.

  16. comment number 16 by: JK

    Ponta,

    Don’t be insulting or deceptive (like so many Japanese can be) and be respectful of others’ families. So far, you have not been when you say I don’t respect my family or that they were collaborators. But your family were definitely dastardly people going by Japan’s past.

  17. comment number 17 by: JK

    You do indeed live up to the negative stereotype that many Americans and Koreans have of Japanese of being sneaky and deceptive, ponta. Keep it up. Outside readers of this blog can see through your deception easily. Keep it up. You show why Koreans are justifiably angry with Japan and argue my points for me well.

  18. comment number 18 by: ponta

    JK

    Let’s not talk about your family but talk about some Koreans who could speak Japanese in a situation where,according to your theory, Koreans were foced to speak Japanese but most of them didn’t.
    Are those Koreans colloborators?

    It all depends what you mean by “colloborate”.

    colloborate
    to work with an enemy who has taken control of your own country:
    Who could speak Japanese just as native Japanese witouth working with an Japanese who has taken conrol of your own country?

    You do indeed live up to the negative stereotype that many Americans and Koreans have of Japanese of being sneaky and deceptive

    This is racial slur in double sense,because
    1) it imply many American and Koreans have a stero type that Japanese are sneaky and deceptive.This is insulting to American and Koreans who do not have such sterotype.
    2) it insinuates that Japanese are sneaky and deceptive.
    I would like you to retract what you say.

    And if you want to say Ponta is sneaky and deceptive,just as you did many times.That’s okay, it just show how you can not maintain the debate intellectually.

  19. comment number 19 by: JK

    The words you said about “collaborating” were indeed a sneaky poke in the ribs. I called you on it. You are the one who did not maintain any debate intellectually when you did such an underhanded thing.

    I said that you are sneaky and deceptive adn that you lived up to the stereotype that many Americans and Koreans have of Japanese. I didn’t say it as fact that Japanese are this way but it IS a fact that many Americans and Kroeans feel this way about Japanese. How is this a racial slur, pray tell.

  20. comment number 20 by: ponta

    JK
    Thanks anyway.

  21. comment number 21 by: wiesunja

    Now you are being intentionally crafty and catty, ponta.

    It seems like to a Korean, being “crafty” and “catty” means providing so much factual evidence to the point where there is no counterargument so the only recluse left is for a Korean to do what he is best at…making bigoted racial attacks. Usually, resorting to bigotry and racism is very indicative of a low-intelligence, immature mind. Tells you alot about the Korean national character.

    Don’t you DARE make such insinuations about my family again.

    Boy oh boy…looks like there is one hot-headed ingrate who got is really riled up mad because he can’t handle the truth. Typical of Koreans…very selfish, screaming and bursting out in profanities and using dirty language. This is the typical Korean way of arguing or debating. The Korean mind seems incapable of using rational logic. Koreans must think that logic is a strange way of debating that was invented by foreigners to piss off Koreans. Totally barbaric…no wonder Koreans carry the barbaric and selfish reputation that they do…very well deserved.

    I would suggest to Matt that with all the despicable, disgusting comments that JK has spewed from his filthy racist Korean mouth about the family members of ponta and pacifist, he should be banned. There are more than enough anti-Japan sites on the internet where Korean trolls like JK can revel in masturbatory bliss. Koreans really love to get together and use hatred against a single entity as a bonding tool. Tells you alot about their pathetic and sad culture.

  22. comment number 22 by: Victor

    Hi, Pacifist and Ponta!
    It really is time for you to write a protest letter to the following U.S. journalists because they are spreading what you would call “anti-japanese propaganda”…They have not only stated that the Japanese enslaved the Koreans, but they even went so far as to compare the “honorable” japanese imperialists with the “horrible” Nazzis!!!
    Volia the “brainwashed(?)” but respected American journalists:

    1) Jon Carroll, a journalist from Sanfrancisco Chrnoicle, who wrote:
    “Slavery is a historical fact. We did not invent it. The Japanese enslaved Koreans; the Nazis enslaved Jews and Gypsies; the great Islamic empires enslaved Europeans (the root of the word “slave” is the same as the root of the word “Slavic”); the Romans had phalanxes of slaves; the Egyptians enslaved the Nubians; the kings of Africa enslaved their own people at the same time they were making deals with white slave traders to send the rejects overseas.

    quoted from here

    2) Andy Martin, a journalist and a candidate for illinois governor, who wrote:

    What was inhuman was the way the Japanese waged war against Korea and colonized that nation. The Japanese enslaved Koreans for decades...Nazi Germany was destroyed, and a new Germany rose again from the ashes. The new Germany is not perfect but Germans have acknowledged the sins of the Holocaust and paid reparations to Jews and millions of other people. Is there a Holocaust Memorial to Koreans and Chinese in Tokyo? Not on your life. The Japanese continue to pretend nothing happened.

    quoted from here

    3) Gavan McCormack, from Japan Policy Institute, who wrote:

    In many respects Nazi and Japanese ideology and practice were similar, and in some respects Japan was guilty of crimes that even the Nazis did not commit-for example, trading in opium to finance the activities of its puppet governments, bacteriological and gas warfare, and (also in China) the forced evacuation of vast areas of all population (mujin chitaika). Yet genocidal intent as such remains peculiar to the Nazis.

    quoted from here

    I hear ya..only the Japanese are right and everybody else is brainwashed..I have more articles to post, but I gotta go. By the way, happy brainwashing!!!

  23. comment number 23 by: JK

    wiseunja, yeah, I’m sure you wouldn’t be offended or hotheaded if I said your mother was a ‘ho, eh?

    You are one freakin’ idiot. Go run to mommy. I thought I saw her up there on Hooker Hill.

  24. comment number 24 by: Matt

    Volia the “brainwashed(?)” but respected American journalists:

    Victor, ‘respected’ journalists? Respected by who? I told you last time to do some research before flooding people with endless links. In anycase, I will give you the chance to admit that you have never heard of these guys before you googled those articles, and that you dont know if they are respected or not before you end up in the exact same situation you were in earlier in this thread.

    Normally, I would let something like that pass, but you have a history of misrepresenting things, and I am not going to allow it to continue. Like I said before, people here are working people (including me) and want to have discussion in good faith that does not waste their time.

  25. comment number 25 by: KimchiPie

    JK, Most nations in Asia have a very low opinion of Koreans. They see them as UGLY KOREANS.

    http://www.hani.co.kr/section-001100000/2005/01/001100000200501150743001.html

    I have also heard stores of Korea Americans such as what you sometimes call yourself turning around and betraying their country. People like Robert Kim, who is a hero in Korea.
    http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200511/kt2005110622341511950.htm

    Or stealing dogs to eat them.
    http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200605/200605090027.html

    And beat and abuse women and children.
    http://www.ssw.umich.edu/newVIsions/HealthySociety-English.html

    I was hoping that you end the sterotype. But it seems that in many ways you only reinforce sterotypes about koreans. Perhaps it would be better to call yourself ‘korean’ instead of korean american so people dont look down on Americans too. Also, your girlfriend with the smelly cooter. I reccomend she uses a giant douchebag to get the stink out of her cooter.

    By the way, not all koreans are dog stealers or robert kim types. I however have met one who was nice. She has lived her entire life in Japan.

  26. comment number 26 by: Matt

    Alright, that is it. Kimchipie and JK are banned.

  27. comment number 27 by: chonko

    Go run to mommy. I thought I saw her up there on Hooker Hill.

    Once again..you never fail to disappoint, JK! Nice display of class and tact there insulting wiesunja’s mother. I showed this thread to alot of my aquaintances who were totally ambivalent to Korea at first, but thanks to your display of low-class, dirty bigotry, their opinion of Koreans/Korean-Americans like you is really hitting the bottom of the crapper. Moreover, I have forwarded Matt’s blog to many others so they cn see first hand a fine example of Korean-American racist, bigoted stupidity. It seems like Koreans have a penchant to resorting to very vulgar personal attacks involving race, other people’s family member, and nationality when they reach a point of frustration knowing that they have no rational and logical defense. Congratulations, you are doing a great job of showing how low class Korean culture is. You must feel proud of yourself.

  28. comment number 28 by: chonko

    I apologize for my somewhat caustic attitude towards JK on this board, but so much of what JK says really makes my blood boil. JK has proved time and time again that he does not care to discuss rationally with a cool-head the different opinions held by the Korea or Japan sided posters here. Instead, he falls back on personal and offensive name calling ofall Japanese people which is indicative of a lack of intelligence and maturity and instead childish laziness. His constant low-class tactic of sneakingly taking racist jabs at Japan (using words like “coward” and “sneaky”) under a thin guise of civility is very disgusting to say the least. If this were any other typical Korean-run anti-Japn board (there are millions of them on the internet), I would not doubt for a second that his posts would be one of hundreds making fun of Japan’s culture, economy, or any other bad news that comes out of Japan. Very low and very disgusting.

    Unlike JK, at least Victor, Toadface, and some others show class and maturity even though they disagree with what I and other posters argue. They never resort to personal attacks or disgusting tactics such as insulting another country’s culture, people with blanket generalizations. In that respect, I feel they contribute alot to the discussion and intellectual level of this board, unlike JK who is nothing more than a racist, hatemongering Korean redneck hiding trying to pretend as if he is civilized and intelligent….a wolf in sheep’s clothing basically.

  29. comment number 29 by: Victor

    Matt wrote:

    Victor, ‘respected’ journalists? Respected by who? I

    1) A few career hightlights of Andy Martin:

    As a people’s attorney general, Andy Martin has had a significant impact on American law. His efforts to develop new legal theories are frequently misunderstood, because consumer advocacy by its very purpose seeks to change the system and to upset the status quo. Andy has been featured on the CBS Television Network’s “48 Hours” [1993] as an indefatigable public interest litigator and also been a guest on the Phil Donahue Show [1994] and Fox News Hannity and Colmes and O’eilly Factor……His efforts to fight corruption in Cook County, Illinois courts in the 1970’s helped pave the way for Operation Greylord and eventually resulted in the conviction of over 80 Illinois judges, lawyers, and court personnel. His strident efforts to reform the judicial system and legal profession are in stark contrast with the “business as usual” manner in which judges try to discourage public accountability….Andy Martin has traveled throughout the world, including Viet-Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Hong Kong, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran. Beginning in April 2003, Andy became Baghdad Bureau Chief for Out2.com. He has been involved in the Middle East for thirty-four (34) years. He serves as Executive Director of the Revolutionary War Research Center.

    2) A few career highlights of Jon Carroll

    Rolling Stone, 1970, assistant editor. Rags, 1971, editor. Oui, 1972, editor. Village Voice, 1974, West Coast Editor. Consulting editor, WomenSports magazine. New West magazine, 1978, editor. National Magazine Award, 1979. First Chronicle column, October something, 1982. Winner of several awards…

    3) A few career highlights of
    Gavan McCormack

    Taught at University of Leeds (UK), La Trobe University (Melbourne) and Adelaide University before coming to the ANU in 1990; worked in Japan on many occasions since first visiting as a student in 1962; Visiting Professor at Kobe, Kyoto, Ritsumeikan, Tsubuka and International Christian Universities; elected a fellow of the Academy of Humanities of Australia in 1992; awarded the Centenary Medal “for service to Austalian Society and the Humanities in Asian Studies and History” in 2003.

    So what do you think of the fact that all of those “respectable” journalists and professor from the U.S. equated the japanese with the Nazis, huh????

  30. comment number 30 by: Matt

    That doesnt answer my question. Now I could start posting all the anti semitic stuff that at least one of your ‘respected journalists’ has been writing, but I will no longer waste any more time on you. Take a break for a while Victor, and come back when you are old enough to drink.

  31. comment number 31 by: ponta

    Victor
    I don’t know why you want to claim that Korea had been enslaved by Japan without knowing what it was like under Japanese rule.
    But in any case,the important point is that you present an argument for your case.Appealing to the authority is effective only if you succeded in providing us a good argument for you case.

    What you are inclined to do is just cite people who support your thesis.That is not wrong in itself.In general,authority should be counted on.But you needs argument.The readers needs your argument or the author’s argument..
    The authority 1 said P
    The authority 2 said P
    …………………………
    It does not follow P
    You need to show why P is the case.
    Only then your citation of the authority reinforce your argument.
    I don’t mean to insult you,but I believe this is what high school students and university students are required to do.Doubt the authority and present your own argument. I am sure you have been through this process.and i wonder why you forget it.

    What does it mean to “be enslaved”?Does the author you cited agree on the use of the term?Were Korean people under Japanese rule in the enslaved situation you defined? Does your definition clrear and acceptable?what is the document that shows they are enslaved.This is how you present your argument at highschool or university.isn’t it?

    I showed the cases where there were many Korean governners under whom Japanese took oreder.Does the master takes order from the slave?There are many Korean whose rank was heigher than average Japanese.There were mIlitary officers,nobles,congressman, teachers, novelist,scientis,journalists..Were they slave?If you insist so,I wonder in what sense they were slave.
    I checked the Korean civil right under Japanese rule.So far I have found Koreans had the same civil right as Japanese.Of cource there were minor exceptoins.For instance,Japanese teachers in Korea earned more than Korean teachers in Korea.Japnese teachers received extra money because they must travel from japan to Korea.In other cases,Koreans people had privilage, they had to pay smaller amount of money to go to school than japanese people.But by and large,I think Korean people had as much equal rights as Japanese people.If you want to refute it ,you need as many cases as possible to show they were slaves like,e.g., African-American people many years ago And I welcome the lively discussion in this sense.
    .

    I repeat,what you often do is just cite the authors who agree with your thesis,and what you often forget is to present your and author’s argument: thesis with ground,evidences to suport it.Some authority can be counted on,but you need arguments.

  32. comment number 32 by: pacifist

    Victor,

    I would like to quote the following sentences from a book “A study of the colonized Chosun” (by Mikio Sugimoto);
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    10 Koreans were appointed to the members of the House of Peers.

    In 1932 when 朴春琴 was first elected as a member of the House of Representatives, 朴泳孝 was appointed a member of the House of Peers.

    In March 1945, the election laws were amended and 18 seats were apportioned for Koreans for the next Lower House election but it was not realized because of Japan’s defeat.
    With the amendment of the laws, seven Koreans were appointed members of the House of Peers.

    In USA, African Americans’ suffrage was approved in 1965.
    Japan has suffered from being blamed of discrimination of Koreans, but there were far fewer discriminations than in USA.

    In the area of local politics, when the annexation was done, six of all the 13 chiefs of prefectural governments were Koreans and seven were Japanese. Afterward, five or six chiefs were always Koreans.

    Mayors of cities where many Japanese resided were Japanese as a rule, but chief of counties and village mayors were Koreans in principle.

    They blame Japan’s reign for making Koreans slaves but it is merely a propaganda, as Koreans produced dukes, earls, army sub-generals and members of the Diet. (Original book was written in Japanese.)
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Victor, Koreans had civilian rights but nobody won’t give such rights to slaves. Do you still insist that Koreans were slaves?

  33. comment number 33 by: ponta

    Chonko
    I must disagree.Toadface has shown several times his hatred toward japanese people (and Matt).Here is one example.

    Maybe matt could find a mascot for his blog on this page…..

    I like “matt the ratt!!!!”
    http://mcel.pacificu.edu/as/students/propaganda/poster1.html

    This was in the boad about Dokdo.
    I warned him several times so I hope he has learned the lesson,though.
    .

  34. comment number 34 by: Victor

    P.S.
    As you know, I don’t trust the U.N. resolution. I don’t trust the The International Commission of Jurists’ ruling on the comfort women either. I absolutely don’t believe the “anti-japanese propaganda” coming from the American journalists and the Canadian organization…

    I only trust what the Japanese are claiming and what you are posting here, Pacifist, Ponta and Matt…I’m sure everyone else does too..

  35. comment number 35 by: ponta

    Victor
    You don’t have to mistrust the UN.resolution etc.
    Again,you need an argment to mistrust it.
    You don’t have to trust what Japanese are claiming just because it Pacifist,Ponta,and Matt said so.But if you are convinced by their argument,you are justified in trusting.