Occidentalism
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In Korea the truth is no defense

May 1st, 2007 . by Matt

“…especially if you’re a foreigner.”

The Metropolitician has a crazy post about a foreign English teacher being called in for questioning by the “cybercrime division” of the police department for truthful comments about his former employer. This is not a case of him being sued – as the Metropolitician points out, this is a criminal investigation of a “cybercrime”, which I assume means the possibility of jail time.

See the Metropolitician’s post for more. It is a must read.


41 Responses to “In Korea the truth is no defense”

  1. comment number 1 by: ponta

    Korean criminal law about the libel seems to be similar to Japanese criminal law.
    Korean criminal law/article 307 article 310

    第307條 (名譽毁損)
    第307條(名誉毀損)
    ①公然히 事實을 摘示하여 사람의 名譽를 毁損한 者는 2年 以下의 懲役이나 禁錮 또는 500萬원 以下의 罰金에 處한다.
    ①公然ヒ 事実を 摘示して人の 名誉を 毀損一 者は 2年 以下の 懲役や 禁錮 または 500万院 以下の 罰金に 処する.
    ②公然히 虛僞의 事實을 摘示하여 사람의 名譽를 毁損한 者는 5年 以下의 懲役, 10年 이하의 資格停止 또는 1千萬원 이하의 罰金에 處한다.
    ②公然ヒ 虚偽の 事実を 摘示して人の 名誉を 毀損一 者は 5年 以下の 懲役,10年 以下の 資格停止 または 1千万院以下の 罰金に 処する.

    第310條 (違法性의 阻却) 第307條第1項의 行爲가 眞實한 事實로서 오로지 公共의 利益에 關한 때에는 處罰하지 아니한다.
    第310條 (違法性の 阻却) 第307條第1項の 行為が 真実一 事実としてひたすら 公共の 利益に 関一時には 処罰しない.

    The truth alone is not defence.
    The libel does no hold if the statment is only about public interest and it is true.

    (In Japanese criminal law, it does not hold if the statment is true, it is about public interest, and the purpose of the the statment is to promote public interest. This article is to protect the constitutional right to expression)

    But is the statment of the nature that it might downgrade the social esteem of the specific school in the first place?

    Yes, we know that there are warnings everywhere against Korea’s hagwon system. The U.S. Embassy even posted a warning against teaching English in South Korea. Yet despite all these things, nothing ever gets done to fix this nor acknowledge that this affects Korea’s reputation more than lone geneticists, lone gunmen, or lone football stars.

    Having said that, I want to talk about my case. This is something that happens regularly in Korea but is rarely talked about in the media. I tried to document the procedures to help others who regularly go through the same thing. Since I documented the court and legal procedures on my web site, I am facing a criminal suit for defamation.

    Granted it has something to do with the esteem of a particular school, it is about the public interest, it seems there is nothing criminal according to Korean law: Even at Korean court , it seems that he will probably win the case, if the law is functioning fairly, that is.

    Nonetheless, I got a letter from the local Cybercrime division requesting my presence at the police station for questioning.

    There might be a special law concerning statmenet on the internet.
    But given imformation about the case, it seems it is just the abuse of authority to indict or interview.

  2. comment number 2 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Libel means “to create a false statement in writing or by means of signs or pictures,” so I do not see how they could prosecute him for libel if he did not “create a false statement.” However, even if there is a Korean law says “you cannot say anything bad about someone, even if it is true, unless it is in the public interest,” I think the guy could still argue that his postings were “in the public interest.” I think they would certainly be in the interest of the foreign community.

    Is there no “Better Business Bureau” in Korea?

  3. comment number 3 by: kjeff

    Gerry,
    Come to think of it, I can’t think of any countries in Asia where truth alone is a defence, at least I can’t think of any in S.E. Asia, none more famous than Singapore. I don’t think he can argue ‘public interest’ on this(it’s a hagwon), but ‘libel-proof’ seems to fit nicely. I’m sure he can manage a couple of English teachers to testify prior-knowledge on his behalf.

  4. comment number 4 by: ponta

    ‘libel-proof’ seems to fit nicely

    libel proof

    The “libel-proof” plaintiff. A plaintiff is “libel-proof” when his reputation has been irreparably stained by prior publications. At the point the challenged statements are published, then, plaintiff’s reputation is already so damaged that a plaintiff cannot recover more than nominal damages for subsequent defamatory statements.

    I am not sure if it works.
    I have never heard of Japanese court using this principle of law. I guess Korean court has not used it.
    And it would be difficult to prove that the school reputation was already damaged.
    Note that a false reputation is also protected under the law. That means, the reputation among parents, though it might turn out to be based on false belief, is also protected.
    I don’t understand why he can not argue “public interest” on this. If a private cram school has somehow influence over society, it is in public interest. Public interest does not mean nation-wide interest.

  5. comment number 5 by: GarlicBreath

    Fear not, Korean grassroot support will save this guy. I mean his whole raison d’etre was to promote Koera and spread the word on how great Korea is. I am sure all his Korean friends and readers will gather and protest.

    Hahaha.. just kidding. Koreans don’t give a shint about this yankee bastard. He has a bit of kusihibo desease (a sickness that makes people think that if they worship Korea, even lie to themselves and others about korea, that Koerans will thank them)

    I will shed no tears for this “useful idiot“.

  6. comment number 6 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,
    Please…pretty please…tell me where all of those coming from…

  7. comment number 7 by: Phil2Musashi

    Wow Garlicbreath, once again you’re like a poster boy for everything wrong with internet debating. What do you do when you meet Korean people in real life?

    Sucks to be this poor guy in Korea though; I hope he has someone who knows their law over there to help him. I find it odd that they won’t even let him have his own translator though.

    You would think that if a American boy can go to Singapore, vandalize public property and have his government get him home safe without so much as a spanking, then a teacher with a good standing should be able to at least get some international support.

    Has he contacted his embassy?

  8. comment number 8 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Phil2Musashi,

    If you are talking about the boy who got caught throwing eggs at cars in Singapore, then I remember him getting a caning, which is much worse than a spanking. From what I remember, the US embassy could not stop it.

  9. comment number 9 by: Phil2Musashi

    Oh, a quick google reveals you are correct about Michael P. Fay! Sorry guys!

    Now that my foot is out of my mouth, even though the American boy in Singapore didn’t get off without a caning, we did see Clinton on TV begging on behalf of Americans for the government of Singapore to reconsider.

    And because of that, many people in America knows a little more about Singapore’s judicial system.

    Maybe in the case of this teacher in Korea some similiar kind of publicity could be generated?

    Granted it is not a juicy story like “caning”, but I am sure they could pull of some sort of dramatic “is this the death of freedom in one of our allied nations” kinda stuff.

    Anybody think media would take the bait?

    Perhaps if what is happening to this

  10. comment number 10 by: yungbe

    Lol, according to the owner of this site and Garlicbreath himself ( https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=604#comment-20476 and https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=604#comment-20480), Garlicbreath is emulating Koreans to make fun of Koreans. He is (apparently) to Koreans as Stephen Colbert is to Bill O’Reilly (but he’s not as funny or clever as Colbert). So, I usually read past his comments after realizing that what Garlicbreath is “trying” to do is childish and ridiculous.

    “In Korea, the truth is no defense.” (Nice title, btw. Why not “Once again, truth doesn’t matter in Korea” or “Death of truth and virtue: Korean Justice system”?) In Korea, the truth is no defense? You’re right, Truth alone is not a defense in 명예훼손죄 (just like in the overwhelming majority of Asian countries). This is because 명예훼손죄 is NOT libel. Libel, by definition, requires false claims. 명예훼손죄 (literally, damaging/defamation of one’s social standing), by definition, does not require false claims. If I shout in public “John Smith of Los Angeles, California, has only one testicle!”, then I’m guilty of damaging John Smith’s social standing, no matter the status of his testicle(s). And since this guy defamed the hakwon in the internet (which has a gigantic social impact in SK), it becomes a serious manner. But it’s not going to matter since what he said was true and he did this for ‘public interest’, which is a clause in 형법 310조 (as Ponta points out in the very first reply).

  11. comment number 11 by: Matt

    Lol, according to the owner of this site and Garlicbreath himself (https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=604#comment-20476 and https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=604#comment-20480), Garlicbreath is emulating Koreans to make fun of Koreans. He is (apparently) to Koreans as Stephen Colbert is to Bill O’Reilly (but he’s not as funny or clever as Colbert). So, I usually read past his comments after realizing that what Garlicbreath is “trying” to do is childish and ridiculous.

    Actually, I was referring to one specific situation, not in everything he writes. Also, I was speculating, I do not know for sure.

    “In Korea, the truth is no defense.” (Nice title, btw. Why not “Once again, truth doesn’t matter in Korea” or “Death of truth and virtue: Korean Justice system”?) In Korea, the truth is no defense? You’re right, Truth alone is not a defense in 명예훼손죄 (just like in the overwhelming majority of Asian countries). This is because 명예훼손죄 is NOT libel. Libel, by definition, requires false claims. 명예훼손죄 (literally, damaging/defamation of one’s social standing), by definition, does not require false claims. If I shout in public “John Smith of Los Angeles, California, has only one testicle!”, then I’m guilty of damaging John Smith’s social standing, no matter the status of his testicle(s). And since this guy defamed the hakwon in the internet (which has a gigantic social impact in SK), it becomes a serious manner. But it’s not going to matter since what he said was true and he did this for ‘public interest’, which is a clause in 형법 310조 (as Ponta points out in the very first reply).

    I asked a question about that on Metropolitician before.

  12. comment number 12 by: GarlicBreath

    Quit shooting the messinger Yungbe.

    Koreans are very strange indeed. The lecture to all that will listen, the greatness of Korea, but so many of them end up deserting Korea like rats scampering off a sinking ship. These Koreans end up on the shores of other nations where they all stick together and make mini-Koreans where again they lecture to all that will listen how great Korea is.

    Yungbe, do you see anything wrong at all with the situation with zenGimchi?

  13. comment number 13 by: yungbe

    How am I shooting the messenger, GarlicBreath? Thanks for comparing my people to rats and my country to a sinking ship, by the way. Very respectful and reasonable indeed. And we move out because, while we love our country (how dare we?!), it also has a crippling problem with education/job/business (too competitive). But if it makes you feel better, I apologize for loving where I’m from and loving my heritage. How dare I?

    ZenKimchi’s situation, while he has my condolences, is part of a legal process in a country that is ran by a specific legal codes. Since his ‘defamation’ is truth and since it was for public benefit as opposed to personal gain, he’ll be cleared. But no, I don’t see anything unusually wrong (or are you going to sit there and tell me there’s a perfectly ran legal system in this world?).

    @Matt

    Right, I realize that’s just your speculation, but GarlicBreath agreed with your speculation (kudos on the accurate observation). But if he’s just doing that on that particular discussion (and really mean it when he compares me and my people to rats, not to mention disgusting overgeneralization he spews in every post), doesn’t that warrant a ban, if not stern warning? Or are you advocating what he is saying?

    Also, I realize you pointed out the clause in metropolitan’s site. So why would you write with the title “In Korea, truth is no defense”, when you’re perfectly aware that truth, coupled with public interest, IS a defense? It’s the kind of title Fox News Network would choose… are you trying to do what they do at FNN?

  14. comment number 14 by: Matt

    Right, I realize that’s just your speculation, but GarlicBreath agreed with your speculation (kudos on the accurate observation). But if he’s just doing that on that particular discussion (and really mean it when he compares me and my people to rats, not to mention disgusting overgeneralization he spews in every post), doesn’t that warrant a ban, if not stern warning? Or are you advocating what he is saying?

    “Rats off a sinking ship” is a common phrase, I cannot punish that. If he said “Koreans are like rats”, that would be different.

    Also, I realize you pointed out the clause in metropolitan’s site. So why would you write with the title “In Korea, truth is no defense”, when you’re perfectly aware that truth, coupled with public interest, IS a defense? It’s the kind of title Fox News Network would choose… are you trying to do what they do at FNN?

    The truth not being a defense along with the first line of my post are taken from the Metropoliticians post. I still think it is a valid title, for the reason that the truth is not a defense. It is true that I did not make clarifications, but then again I wanted people to see the Metropoliticians site.

  15. comment number 15 by: GarlicBreath

    Yungbi

    when he compares me and my people to rats

    Quit lying, I never said you were like a rat. You are overemotional, and making things up.

    not to mention disgusting overgeneralization he spews in every post

    Every post? I think it is you that overgeneralize !

    Koreanjeff, I assume you will have comments to add..

  16. comment number 16 by: GarlicBreath

    Phil2Musashi said:
    Wow Garlicbreath, once again you’re like a poster boy for everything wrong with internet debating.

    No offence phal, but you seemed to prove your own point. You got all your facts wrong with that lad Fay, just as you have your facts wrong with me.

    What do you do when you meet Korean people in real life?

    What do I do when I meet Korans? Well for example I politly ask them to stop shouting in a public area, not to shove me, and to watch where they are going, to wait their turn and not push their way to the front of the line, to ask that they control their children, to chew with their mouth closed when they sit near me in a restaraunt. I remind them that they are not in Korea and to act civil.

  17. comment number 17 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    Koreanjeff, I assume you will have comments to add..

    Is this about using quantifiers that I advocated a few months ago?

    Every post? I think it is you that overgeneralize !

    Do you think so? I’m trying hard to remember, but all I could remember was that you ‘actually’ wrote that Seung Hui’s parents and his extended family should kill themselves. Sorry…

    What do I do when I meet Korans? Well for example I politly ask them to stop shouting in a public area, not to shove me, and to watch where they are going, to wait their turn and not push their way to the front of the line, to ask that they control their children, to chew with their mouth closed when they sit near me in a restaraunt. I remind them that they are not in Korea and to act civil.

    You didn’t make that up, did you? If not, I’m guessing that you live in California or the NorthEast, and maybe, for someone who obviously ‘hates’ Koreans, you spent too much time hanging in Koreatowns. It’s not impossible, but it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to distinguish Koreans from other light-skin Asians outside those zones by behaviors alone.
    Matt,

    I still think it is a valid title, for the reason that the truth is not a defense. It is true that I did not make clarifications, but then again I wanted people to see the Metropoliticians site.

    I guess there’s nothing wrong with the title, but time and time again, I feel the same way -slightly disappointed- as when I read past the first paragraph of Star(or USweekly, or InTouch), “Damn, when is Katie going to leave that mope?” Hey, I bought them already, and I probably will next week. BTW, is there a way that I can change my user id? I kinda want to change it to KoreanJeff, just to give a little love to GarlicBreath. He seriously need some huggins.

  18. comment number 18 by: empraptor

    Read comments on Occidentalim enough and you’ll start automatically filtering out GarlicBreath. I did, anyway.

  19. comment number 19 by: Newshound

    empraptor said:

    Read comments on Occidentalim enough and you’ll start automatically filtering out GarlicBreath. I did, anyway.

    Yep. It’d be unbearable otherwise.

  20. comment number 20 by: jion999

    Korean criminal law about the libel has become very notorious when Gim Wanseop, who is a Korean writer, was sued for the libel of Queen Min or Kim Gu.
    It is illegal to criticize heroes or heroines of Korean history even if they are dead persons because their relatives may sue you.
    However, it is highly encouraged to criticize “Chinilpa” because “it is in the public interest” of Korea.
    In short, if you doubt the official history Korean government broadcasts and write something different ides which includes the criticism of national heroes, you might be sued for libel!
    This is the oblivious evidence that there is no freedom of thought and academic study in Korea.

  21. comment number 21 by: Phil2Musashi

    Boom-shacka-lacka! Thanks for the advice empraptor and newshound, my blinders are officially switched on.

    What is the Korean prosecution system like? I hear from friends that in Japan things are usually settled out of the court room, and that if things do make it as far as a court room, it is usually pretty much a a case of “guilty until proven innocent”.

    Is the Korean system as tough once you are actually brought in for prosecution?

  22. comment number 22 by: madboots

    jion999,
    I would think you shouldn’t use a Korean word without attaching any explanation.
    “Chin-ilpa” mean pro-Japanese Koreans, who are automatically supposed to be anti-national.

    Come to think of it, do you know there was large-scale seizure of assets in Korea a few days ago in connection with several pro-Japanese Koreans who acted in cooperation with the Japanese authorities during the annexation? A large amount of assets, now possessed by their descendents, were reportedly seized by the goverment under the least understandable act which had been enacted last year.
    I suspect this act obviously goes against the Constituion although I am not so familiar with law.
    Do national sentiments have precedence of law in Korea?

  23. comment number 23 by: GarlicBreath

    Koreanjeff, I dont hate Koreans, and I am offended that you would say that.

    Koreanjeff, if you are really interested in doing something nice, then please stop making comments like that twards me.

    I do admit that at one time I was suprised that you were over 18, and I am sorry for that misunderstanding. Lets be civil.

  24. comment number 24 by: tocchin

    After WW2 Japan was forced to renounce the properties owned by the government, companies and individuals in Korea. Can anyone here tell how these Japanese properties were disposed of by Koreans?

  25. comment number 25 by: jion999

    madboots

    I would think you shouldn’t use a Korean word without attaching any explanation.

    I believe most of people here must know that famous Korean word.

    Do national sentiments have precedence of law in Korea?

    Yes.
    Korea is not a country ruled by law.
    One more thing.
    The judicial trial in Korea is a fake ceremony of kangaroo court because of so much perjury and pressure to prosecutors and judges.
    The article about judge against American GIs is a good example.

    South Koreans who give testimony might feel it culturally acceptable to lie, especially if it will increase their chances of winning bigger damages.

    There is very little social disapproval of making false official statements in order to achieve an objective for your friend or relative or for a tribe mate.

    Some prosecutors and judges fear they’ll be labeled “as a ‘pro-American’ or what they call ‘imperialist.

    http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=52677&archive=true

    It means any kinds of lies are acceptable if you criticize “chinilpa” or Japanese Empire.
    The reliability of testimonies by ex-comfort women is based of this Korean society and Korean custom.

    I recommend all of Americans and Japanese not to have a trouble in Korea.

  26. comment number 26 by: GarlicBreath

    South Koreans who give testimony might feel it culturally acceptable to lie, especially if it will increase their chances of winning bigger damages.

    There is very little social disapproval of making false official statements in order to achieve an objective for your friend or relative or for a tribe mate.

    Good point Jjon99. I think its well known that Koreans will not honor contracts, but I assumed that even in Korea, that lying was not so well accepted.

    I guess I will chalk this off to cultural differences. After all, it is Korea that “mans best friend” is also known as dinner.

  27. comment number 27 by: jion999

    occhin
    If you like to know how Koreans seized Japanese properties in Korea after WW2, I recommend you reading the following notes. (Japanese only)

    This is a true story of threat and looting by Koreans which happened just after the war.

    http://bbs.enjoykorea.jp/tbbs/read.php?board_id=phistory&nid=75403
    http://bbs.enjoykorea.jp/tbbs/read.php?board_id=phistory&nid=75413&st=writer_id&sw=hitkot
    http://bbs.enjoykorea.jp/tbbs/read.php?board_id=phistory&nid=75432&st=writer_id&sw=hitkot

  28. comment number 28 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    Koreanjeff, I dont hate Koreans, and I am offended that you would say that.

    Hahahaha…hahahahahahahahahahahaha……
    I’m a little disappointed…and I think you need to re-up your meds.

    Good point Jjon99. I think its well known that Koreans will not honor contracts, but I assumed that even in Korea, that lying was not so well accepted.

    and jion999,
    Getting screwed…is part being an adult(you’ll know it some day), be it unhonored contract or lease, bouncing check, default loan, frivolous lawsuit….hell, I even got screwed on an irrevocable LC once, and that was in the U.S. And I won’t even include customer service stuff on that list. You’d fight as hell, as you should, but more time than not, you’d bend over and take it. It’s true in Korea; it’s true in the U.S., and pretty much everywhere else…shit happens…

  29. comment number 29 by: kjeff

    Matt,

    Well, I know you’re going to make the distinction that the lawsuit that I’m about to link is a civil case, and not criminal(although I’m not seeing the criminal angle of Joe’s case; he’s not going to jail anytime soon), but still, I think it’s worth comparing. Hell, I’ll even give you a title to boot.
    .
    In the U.S., losing a pair of pants can cause you $65 millions.
    .
    For the glasses-wearing members like myself, that’s MILLIONS, and in U.S. dollars not S.K. won. Here it is…Gotta admit, you’d run a BIIIIGGGG title on this one if it happened in Korea, no?

  30. comment number 30 by: Matt

    Matt,

    Well, I know you’re going to make the distinction that the lawsuit that I’m about to link is a civil case, and not criminal(although I’m not seeing the criminal angle of Joe’s case; he’s not going to jail anytime soon), but still, I think it’s worth comparing. Hell, I’ll even give you a title to boot.
    .
    In the U.S., losing a pair of pants can cause you $65 millions.
    .
    For the glasses-wearing members like myself, that’s MILLIONS, and in U.S. dollars not S.K. won. Here it is…Gotta admit, you’d run a BIIIIGGGG title on this one if it happened in Korea, no?

    Marmot is already on it. It is a civil case and not a criminal case, so if it goes to court it does not have the authority of the state behind it. I think the Chungs should counter sue for a nuisance lawsuit. I think they would have an excellent chance of winning.

  31. comment number 31 by: ponta

    In the U.S., losing a pair of pants can cause you $65 millions.

    Against this lawsuit,

    “Hundreds of readers have responded to our story about the lawsuit against the owners of Custom Cleaners in Washington D.C. And so many more have contacted an attorney for the cleaners that a legal defense fund is being set up to coordinate donations. Chris Manning, the attorney for the cleaners, told ABC News that he and his clients are grateful for the outpouring of support, but ask that potential donors wait another day before their defense fund website http://www.customcleanersdefensefund.com is up and running. “

    Moreover, Sherman Joyce, president of the American Tort Reform Association, is pushing for a denial of Pearson’s judicial appointment renewal.

    The near unanimous reaction of US netizens is outrage and disgust at the administrative “judge.”

    Sonagi

    So what is Korean reaction to this incident?

  32. comment number 32 by: kjeff

    Matt,
    What did I say?

  33. comment number 33 by: Matt

    Matt,
    What did I say?

    Anyone can file a civil suit. What interests me is that in zenkimchi’s case it is being treated as a criminal matter, rather than a civil matter. I did not even know that “criminal defamation” even existed. I am pretty sure in my country it does not, although I could be wrong.

    A single Korean suing a foreigner in a civil suit for 65 trillion won would not be of interest to me because it does not represent any pattern of Korean behavior. Again, I am purely interested in this case because it is a criminal case. Whether he serves time or not is irrelevant because it goes on a criminal record.

  34. comment number 34 by: GarlicBreath

    Hey great link Ponta. You can email the chings. I sent them an email. I think they were thinking about moving back to Korea so I let them know my thoughts about that.

    Once again there is a huge difference between Korea and the USA. The people of the USA, who are black, white, yellow, brown and between can all show support for the Korean family (Americans are good people) even though they may not know the whole picture. Koreans on the other hand seem only to care about other Koreans.

    The chings are playing their “american dream” sob story.

    Koreanjeff, in your rush to make excuses for the fact that Korean lie in contracts, you may not have known about this:

    Teaching English: The U.S. Embassy in Seoul receives many complaints from U.S. citizens who enter the Republic of Korea to teach English at private language schools (“hagwons”). The most frequent complaints are that the schools and/or employment agencies misrepresent salaries, working conditions, living arrangements and other benefits, including health insurance, even in the written contracts. There have also been some complaints of physical assault, threats of arrest/deportation, and sexual harassment. Some U.S.-based employment agencies have been known to misrepresent contract terms, employment conditions, or the need for an appropriate work visa. Since the spring of 2005, Korean police have investigated a number of foreign teachers for document fraud. Several Americans have been arrested and charged with possession of fraudulent university diplomas, which were used to obtain employment in Korea. Please see our comprehensive handout entitled Teaching English in Korea: Opportunities and Pitfalls ; this handout may also be obtained at the U.S. Embassy in Seoul

    .

    I guess you will say that everyone lies so its ok. But Koreans do lie more. Many embassies warn about this. The US Embassy does
    The Canadian Embassy, (polite as always) point out that Koreans lie too.

    positions far different from those originally promised.

    The UK says the same things.

    conditions of employment stated in contracts are not honoured,

    What about Australia Kiwiland?

    Yes, Yes, all say that Koreans are lie when it comes to a contract.

    KoreanJeff, does the Korean embassy give the same warning about working in Canada, USA, UK Australia, and Kiwiland? Nope.

    I guess they are not all the same.

    Korean Jeff

    Getting screwed…is part being an adult

    KoreanJeff, maybe you feel that way because of your culture and scrweing people is normal for Koreans. I hope not, but the embassies of the US, Canada, UK, Australia, and Kiwi all feel that Koreans will screw you.

  35. comment number 35 by: ponta

    I suggest oversea Koreans and native Koreans to
    set up fund to coordinate donations to help zenkimchi. That will change the perception of Koreans greatly.

  36. comment number 36 by: GarlicBreath

    Ponta, you do realize that zengimchi is not Korean right? Koreans (odd but true) tend to treat foreigners who worship Korea like zengimchi with contempt and disgust. They think that becuase he is in korea, he is no more then a burgerflipper back in his homeland. The irony is that zengimchi seems to be a real burgerflipper back in his homeland. LOL.

  37. comment number 37 by: kjeff

    Matt,
    Yes, that’s just a civil case, did you notice that the plaintiff is a judge. Come on, don’t you think it would warrant a ‘mention’ in this blog, were he a Korean? Anyhow, as criminal case that stems from a civil one(the contract dispute) goes, it usually just serves as leverage. You drop, and I drop sort of thing… I know an interior designer who sued her client for service fees rendered, and was counter-sued with frauds(can be criminal, false billing among others). She didn’t do anything wrong, but the prospect of drawn-out legal fights was just not worth it. Leverage…In theory, if Joe has the financial or legal resources, he’ll able to something in that evry same legal system to ‘get’ her criminally; there’s always ‘dirt’, and by the look of it, she should have plenty.
    GarlicBreath,

    KoreanJeff, does the Korean embassy give the same warning about working in Canada, USA, UK Australia, and Kiwiland? Nope.

    I think most American employers(don’t know about other countries you mentioned) have been very generous, but ‘getting screwed’ by some of them is not unheard of. I occasionally heard horror stories of those who have H1b visas, from pay cuts to harassments. For those not familiar with H1b, the working visa is basically valid ONLY(there might be 7 to 30 days window, not sure, but good luck getting a new job in that time frame) as long as you are employed. You combine that with employment at-will(you can get fired anytime, for any reason) we have here in the U.S., you get a recipe for potential abuses.

  38. comment number 38 by: GarlicBreath

    I knew Koreanjeff would not dissapoint me. Naturally he found some way to make America look bad. He “heard” that “someone” was treated bad. Funny bow kyopos always look for ways to make their adopted land look bad. Yet their “motherland” is somehow beyond any criticism.

    ahhh.. Koreanjeff.. please never change… your corean arrogance is classic.

  39. comment number 39 by: kjeff

    To GarlicBreath’s programmer,
    Please revise your algorithm so that it’ll be able to read sentences and paragraphs in full, and not just selective phrases taken out of context. And…

    ahhh.. GarlicBreath.. please never change… your artificial hatred is classic.

  40. comment number 40 by: Thormodr

    Obviously Kjeff has never been a hagwon teacher in Korea. Getting ripped up is a common occurance unfortunately. 🙁
    I know this from personal experience and from many of my friends. Waeguks aren’t that high up on the Confusionist (pun intended)scale.

  41. comment number 41 by: kjeff

    Thormodr,

    Obviously Kjeff has never been a hagwon teacher in Korea. Getting ripped up is a common occurance unfortunately

    I’ve never said that I’ve been. BTW, I believe that the correct term is ‘ripped off’ and ‘occurance’ should have been spelled ‘occurrence.’