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Interview with Sankei Shimbun Reporter on Dokdo/Takeshima

April 22nd, 2007 . by Gerry-Bevers

Today (April 22), I was interviewed by a Sankei Shimbun reporter in the coffee shop of the Koreana Hotel in Seoul. She asked me about my views on Dokdo/Takeshima and my background information, such as when did I first become interested in the issue. We talked for about an hour and half while her photographer was snapping pictures the whole time.

While the reporter was interviewing me, I was also interviewing the reporter because she and her photographer had just returned from a trip to Ulleungdo. I asked them if they were able to go to Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, but she said the boat that normally takes people to the island was not running because the seas were supposedly too rough. Likewise, they were unable to go to “Takeshima” (Dokdo) for the same reason. They did, however, get some pictures of Jukdo from Ulleungdo, which she promised to send me.

They were able to interview an employee of the Dokdo Museum. They had tried to make arrangements to interview the director of the museum, but they were told the director would be on a business trip during their visit. However, when they arrived at the museum, they found the museum director there, but supposedly he was too busy to meet with them. I suspect that he was afraid to meet with them for some reason, maybe because the reporter was quite well versed on Dokdo/Takeshima issues.

Before the reporter went to Ulleungdo, I suggested she ask them about the history of Jukdo. Unfortunately, today when I asked her if she found out anything on the history of Jukdo, she said she asked them about the history, but they claimed they did not know anything, except that “three people” were living on the island. It seems strange to me that the people at the Dokdo Museum do not know the history of Jukdo.

The reporter also asked if they could take pictures at the museum, but the man at the museum would not allow it. Then the reporter convinced him to allow them to take pictures by saying that the museum could take pictures of them (the Sankei Shimbun reporter and her photographer). At least, I think that is how she explained it to me. Or maybe she said she asked, “If Korean reporters can take pictures of the museum, why can’t we?”

When the reporter asked to take a picture of the model of the famous 1530 map, the one on which the museum has switched the positions of Ulleungdo and Usando, the museum employee first agreed, but then changed his mind. The reason he gave was that the model was too upsetting to the Japanese. When the reporter asked why the museum had switched the positions of the islands, the museum employee told her that it was to help make it easier for Koreans to understand. The employee also said the museum was considering correcting the model. When the reporter asked when, the employee told her that it would probably be within the year. By the way, the reporter told me that they got a picture of the model, anyway.

There was one strange thing that happened after the interview. After we finished the interview, the Japanese reporter and the photographer walked me downstairs to the street, where we said our goodbyes. I then started walking toward the Kyobo Book Store, but within seconds of leaving the hotel, a Korean man approached me from behind, flashed an identification card and said in English that he worked for Korea’s National Intelligence Service (NIS). He then asked to see my ID card. When I asked him why, he told me that they had a report that a Caucasian man was selling drugs in the area. When I showed him my ID, he wrote down my name and then asked me where I worked, which he also wrote down. I then asked why NIS was investigating drug-related crimes instead of the police. He said that it was their job, which made me suspicious. Is it really NIS’s job to go around looking for drug dealers?  Anyway, he then said, “Goodbye,” and left, but I had an uneasy feeling because nothing like that has ever happened to me during my thirty years in Korea. If he suspected me of dealing drugs, then why didn’t he search me? Why was I approached within seconds of leaving the Japanese reporter and her photographer outside the Koreana Hotel? Were the Japanese under surveillance? I do not know, but it was a really strange incident.

We were the only customers in the Koreana coffee shop during the interview, and we were talking freely about “Dokdo,” “An Yong-bok,” and other things while the Korean coffee shop staff were standing nearby. I was so involved in the conversation that I did not pay any attention to the reactions of the hotel staff, but when we got up to leave, I suddenly became aware that the coffee shop staff had probably been listening to our conversation, especially since the photographer was constantly circling the table, taking photos at every possible angle. I wonder what the coffee shop staff were thinking?

The reporter told me that her paper was planning on running a 5-part series on “Takeshima,” so if you are interested, keep an eye on the Sankei Shimbun Web site or look for the articles in future issues of the newspaper.


96 Responses to “Interview with Sankei Shimbun Reporter on Dokdo/Takeshima”

  1. comment number 1 by: dogbert

    Many nations, including the U.S., require reporters visiting their countries in the capacity to apply for and obtain a journalist’s visa. Perhaps that played a part in this situation.

    As someone else wrote, it may be as well that while Korea/Koreans would expect a Japanese person to hew to Japan’s version of the Takeshima/Dokdo controversy, Gerry Bevers’s opinions, as an American, could create different concern.

    Of course, like Gerry, I doubt anything untoward will happen to him while he is in Korea. Korea is a far cry from Uzbekistan, Russia, and other such places where one would have to fear for one’s life.

    Do any of you Japanese commenters know the person who drew the “Gerry manga”? It would be great for him/her to follow up with that.

  2. comment number 2 by: jion999

    pacifist
    “Sankei is locating at the slightly rightward comparing to Asahi which is locating at slightly leftward, but it is not the “notorious right-wing paper”.”

    I know. I mean because most of Koreans recognize that sankei is “notorious right-wing paper”, they would judge any article of sankei as “lie” automatically. So, Korean government doesn’t have to be nervous about the opinion of Sankei itself. Sankei criticizes Korea every time. But if sankei reports about an American guy who reveals the lie of Korean government about dokdo, it is another story. Other foreign media might get interested in him and write bout his assertion to the world. It must be troublesome for NIS.

  3. comment number 3 by: General Tiger

    Oh please, those fanning the fire:

    Stop thinking any newspaper will change the current Dokdo situation, and that Korea has any real interest in an insignificant foreigner.

  4. comment number 4 by: Kaneganese

    Gerry,

    I know you are not “paranoid” and I don’t think this isolate incident is an immediate threat or anything at all, but you should consider to keep posting about things you feel unusual just in case. The more people share your story, the more you become safe. Besides, you can use those notes for a book of memoirs in the future !!

    And I can’t wait to see your interview in Sankei. I hope they will print them for the national wide, not for local edition this time. I switched from Asahi to Sankei last Summer (to get an 体脂肪ボール).

  5. comment number 5 by: GarlicBreath

    Gerry, be careful. The Korean NIS has a long bloody history. The “dokdo lie” is something that you can bet your bottom won that Koreans will do just about anything to protect.

  6. comment number 6 by: pacifist

    jion999,
    .

    I know. I mean because most of Koreans recognize that sankei is “notorious right-wing paper”,

    .
    Oh sorry, I mistakenly took your intention.
    .
    But anyway if Sankei runs the article about the Korean lies in a serial article, the impact will not be small.
    It’s not a local newspaper, it sells two million copies every single day all over the country and if the affiliated TV station Fuji TV will mention the article, it will stir an argument all over Japan.

  7. comment number 7 by: General Tiger

    GarlicBreath

    Gerry, be careful. The Korean NIS has a long bloody history. The “dokdo lie” is something that you can bet your bottom won that Koreans will do just about anything to protect.

    I had to laugh at this, because it wasn’t the NIS that had a bloody history: it was the KCIA. You might as well say that the Japanese intelligence agency has a bloody past because it was formed from the remains of the imperial age.

    Also, all that Korea has to do is keep quiet to retain Dokdo. There’s no need to go spooking of foreigers or “taking care” of them.

  8. comment number 8 by: GarlicBreath

    Gen Tigger

    NIS–> KCIA–> evil Japanese. Ahh… I see your Corean logic. Its all the evil Japanese fault.

    Matt when you first posted the corean “blame game” I lauged my ass off, because of all the truth under that funny corean problem solving chart. I can see now that you are a true sage.

    General Tigger, YOU made me laugh too.

  9. comment number 9 by: Ichigobatakekakashi

    Gary,

    Since we Japanese/Americans live in a free society, we tend to think other counties are the same way. But as you must know, South Korea is not a free country, not the way we think as free that is.

    I am pretty sure they can take you in without a warrant.

    Please be very careful.

  10. comment number 10 by: infimum

    Gerry,

    The article is up!
    http://kukkuri.jpn.org/boyakikukkuri2/log/eid295.html

  11. comment number 11 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Infimum,

    For some reason, I cannot open your link here in Korea. Are you sure the link is typed correctly?

    Could you copy the article and paste it into the comments section?

    Thanks.

  12. comment number 12 by: infimum

    Gerry,

    Yes, the address is correct. It’s a personal blog entry in which the blogger typed out the article. Anyway, there’s a mirror blog, which you might be able to see. Here is the address.
    http://kukkuri.blog58.fc2.com/blog-entry-156.html#more

    Here is the Japanese text.

    産経新聞朝刊大阪版07年5月19日付1面掲載
    波頭を越えて-竹島レポート-第2部(5)

    【米国人講師の闘い】
    「日本の領土」と主張し解雇

    「君は独島が日本の領土だと思っているのか」

    韓国の嘉泉医科大学で6年間英語講師を務めていた米国人、ゲーリー・ビーバーズさん(51)は昨年11月、学長室に呼ばれ、『嘘(うそ)、半分の真実と独島ビデオ』と題した自身のインターネットへの書き込みを印刷した紙を見せられ、こう尋ねられた。

    「そうです」と答えると、学長は「『人間性・奉仕・愛国心』をモットーとする本学に、こういう講師はふさわしくない、という声がある」と言い、「もう書くな」と指示した。折しも大学が雇用契約の継続を1年ごとの再雇用に切り替えると通知してきた時期。「もう書きません」と誓ったが翌月、再雇用はしないと告げられた。

    学部長からは「君は評価が高いから心配ないよ」とお墨付きをもらっていた。学科長から「解雇は独島問題が原因だと思う」と打ち明けられたビーバーズさんは納得できず、「言論の自由を規制し、別の意見を持つ者を罰することが愛国心なのか」と抗議したが、決定は変わらなかった。

    韓国でこの“解雇事件”を取り上げたマスコミは1社だけ。ビーバーズさんは島根県の地元紙にも投稿し、「日本はもっと世界へ主張すべきだ」と訴えた。中断していた書き込みも再開した。

    ビザが切れるのを心配していたが今年3月から、別の大学で再び英語講師の職を得た。「私は専門家でも何でもないが、竹島(韓国名・独島)問題は今後も調べ続けたい」という。

    竹島問題に関心を持ったのは、島根県が「竹島の日」条例を制定した反動で、韓国内で反日感情がピークに達していた2年前。1977年に米海軍にいた際に韓国を訪れて以来、通訳などとして韓国で働いてきたビーバーズさんは「独島は韓国領」という韓国の主張をそのまま信じていたが、あまりの過熱ぶりを不思議に思い、ネットや文献や地図を調べ始めた。

     丹念に史料を読み込むうち、ふと気づいた。「1905年以前の韓国のどの文献・地図にも、独島を示すものがない」。議論を交わしたいと思い、オーストラリア人が開設している英語のブログに昨年8月から私見を書き込み始めた。「(韓国の古地図に書かれている)于山島は独島ではなく竹嶼(ちくしょ)のこと」「1905年以前に韓国が独島の存在を知っていたと示すものはない」―など、結果的にたどり着いた「私見」は日本の主張と同じだった。

    「史料を少し調べれば、すぐに竹島は日本の領土だと分かる。韓国の学者も99.99%は日本領だと思っているはずだ。でも、そんな発言をすると私のように職を失うから、誰も何も言えない。日本の研究はとても緻密(ちみつ)で正直だが、それが一般の人や世界に日本の主張を分かりにくくしているのではないか。日本はもっと声高に主張すべきだ」

    日本の竹島の領有権主張は、韓国では「再侵略」と表現される。1910年の日韓併合の5年前に日本が領土編入を告示した竹島は、植民地化の「最初の犠牲の地」とされる象徴的存在だからだ。日本に対する強烈な反発と国を挙げた「独島を守れ」の大合唱は、この歴史的背景に負うところが大きい。

    取材を終えて別れた約1分後、ビーバーズさんから電話が入った。「あなたと別れて30秒後、国の情報機関の人物から名前と住所、勤務先を聞かれた。何のためかと聞くと『麻薬捜査』と言うが、身体検査も所持品検査もなかった。長年韓国で暮らしているが、こんなことは初めてだ。あなたも気をつけた方がいい」。思わず息をのみ、周囲に人の気配を探した。

    ビーバーズさんは最近、日本語の勉強を始めた。「日本の見方について英語で書かれたものが少ないから」という。もともと日本側の論拠を知らなかったのに、なぜ日本と全く同じ主張になったのか不思議だと言うと、こう断言した。

    「真実は一つで、曲がることはないからね」

    =第2部おわり
    (竹島問題取材班)

    It also has your picture. So it’s worth the trouble of finding a working Japanese proxy and try to see it yourself.

    There is really nothing new to readers of Occidentalism, but the article mentions your encounter with the NIS guy, which I think will leave non-readers a strong impression.

  13. comment number 13 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Thanks, Infimum.

  14. comment number 14 by: pacifist

    Gerry,
    .
    I’ve just read that the government of South Korea is blocking the internet access especially sites concerning North Korea. And the fact that you couldn’t see the site may mean that they are blocking not only concerning NK but also the site concerning Takeshima/Dokdo. If this is true, it shows that South Korea is not a democratic country and that SK doesn’t want let their people about the truth about Takeshima/Dokdo.

  15. comment number 15 by: pacifist

    Sorry, correction:

    that SK doesn’t want let their people about the truth about Takeshima/Dokdo.

    SHOULD BE:
    that SK doesn’t want to let their people know about the truth…

  16. comment number 16 by: General Tiger

    pacifist:
    There’s plenty of sites concerning Dokdo/Takeshima that I can see. It seems that http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ is being blocked by either the Korean or Japanese side. Stop being parnoid.
    Gerry:
    You seem older than I imagined you to be.

  17. comment number 17 by: Gerry-Bevers

    General Tiger,

    I may seem older than you imagined, but I feel even older than I seem.

  18. comment number 18 by: General Tiger

    Gerry:
    Er, then I have nothing more to say >_>

  19. comment number 19 by: ponta

    General Tiger

    It seems that http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ is being blocked by either the Korean or Japanese side.

    I wonder What makes you think the site is blocked by Japanese side?
    The censorship is forbidden by the constitution.
    You can not block pro-Korean sites in Japan as Korea does.
    http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-3857591_ITM

    Gerry
    You look better on Sakei photo than on Korea times.

  20. comment number 20 by: pacifist

    Here is the news about the internet blocking by the government:

    【ニューヨーク=白川義和】米ハーバード大や英オックスフォード大など4大学の研究者グループは18日、中東、アジアを中心とする25か国で政府によるインターネットの検閲が行われているとの調査結果を発表した。

     中国、イラン、ベトナムなどは政治的、社会的双方の分野で問題のあるサイトを検閲し、接続を遮断しているという。

     調査は各国の協力者と連携し、41か国・地域で実施された。この種の本格的な調査は初めてで、インターネットの普及とともに政府による検閲が広がっている現状が浮き彫りになった。

     調査によると、韓国は、多くが日本で開設されている北朝鮮関連サイトだけを検閲、遮断している。サウジアラビアやオマーンなど中東諸国では宗教的内容での検閲が目立った。ロシア、イスラエルでは予想に反して検閲は確認されなかった。

     北朝鮮とキューバは、協力者に危険が及ぶとして調査対象から外された。

    (2007年5月19日18時37分 読売新聞)

    It says that scholars from four universities including Harvard and Oxford examined internet censorship of the world. According to the report, China, Iran and Vietnam are censoring political and social sites and South Korea is censoring the Japanese sites concerning North Korea. In contrast to this, Russia and Israel are not censoring. The study concerning North Korea and Cuba were not done because scholars would be in the dangerous state.

  21. comment number 21 by: General Tiger

    ponta:
    Those “pro-japanese” sites are Daum cafes. They have nothing to do with censoring Japanese sites, unless they are pro-NK.
    pacifist:
    Censoring the Japanese sites concerning North Korea concerns the old National Security Law (which needs to be modified…), so it’s not really a matter of SK being totaltarian or something.

  22. comment number 22 by: pacifist

    South Korea is heading for the dangerous direction. The censorship concerning the sites about NK and Takeshima/Dokdo seems to be related with this policy.
    To follow is from Yomiuri Shimbun  (English version):

    The Yomiuri Shimbun

    “Please tell them that we’re working sincerely when you go back to your country,”

    South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun told North Korean Ambassador to Kuwait Ho Jong, who Roh unexpectedly met at a reception dinner during his visit to Kuwait in late March.

    Ho, who was also invited by the Kuwait government to the reception, is known to have engaged in spirited verbal jousts with U.S. officials when he was deputy ambassador to the United Nations.

    “Roh wanted Ho to convey to North Korean leaders, including Kim Jong Il, that South Korea is working earnestly on policies toward North Korea,” said South Korean Senior Secretary for Public Information Yoon Seung Yong in explaining Roh’s comment.

    With less than 10 months remaining in its term of office, the Roh administration is again gearing up its efforts to provide assistance to North Korea.

    South Korea agreed with North Korea at minister-level meetings held in Pyongyang in early March to resume sending rice and fertilizer to the North, a practice it had halted after North Korea launched missiles on July 5, 2006.

    Furthermore, South Korea decided on Wednesday to spend 80 billion won (about 10 billion yen) to provide clothing, soap and some raw materials to its impoverished neighbor.

  23. comment number 23 by: General Tiger

    pacifist:

    South Korea is heading for the dangerous direction. The censorship concerning the sites about NK and Takeshima/Dokdo seems to be related with this policy

    Is there any evidence that Dokdo/Takeshima sites are being censored? I’ve been checking out 50 pro-Takeshima sites, and I haven’t found a problem with them except for http://kukkuri.jpn.org/.
    .
    This is using a single example to form a sterotype.

  24. comment number 24 by: pacifist

    Okay, General Tiger, I can’t say exactly that SK is censoring all the sites concerning Takeshima/Dokdo but one thing is certain that a Japanese site is not accesable from Korea while it is accesable from Japan. It is highly likely blocked by the SK government, but is this site concerning NK? (I don’t think so)

  25. comment number 25 by: ponta

    General Tigers.

    ponta:
    Those “pro-japanese” sites are Daum cafes. They have nothing to do with censoring Japanese sites, unless they are pro-NK.

    What made you think that pro-Japanese were pro-North Koreans?

    SEOUL, March 17 Asia Pulse – South Korea’s Internet content regulator said Thursday it is requiring Daum Communications Corp. (KOSDAQ:035720) to shut down five pro-Japanese Web sites following Japan’s fresh claim to the South Korean islets of Dokdo.

    “Those sites have a possibility of harming youngsters’ physical and mental health by distorting historical facts and undermining international friendship,” the Information Communication Ethics Committee, affiliated with the Ministry of Information and Communication, said in a statement.

    Following the committee’s decision, Daum, one of the nation’s most-visited Internet portals, said it blocked access to the five Web sites.
    …….

    Anti-Japanese sentiment escalated in South Korea Wednesday after Japan’s Shimane Prefecture Assembly passed a motion making Feb. 22 “Takeshima Day,” to assert Tokyo’s claim on the South Korean islets. Dokdo is known as Takeshima in Japan.

    …….

    The pro-Japanese sites were administrated by South Koreans on record, but the location of their residences isn’t available, Daum said.

    One of the sites, which has a banner that reads “Dokdo is Japanese territory,” in Korean, has about 4,500 registered subscribers,

  26. comment number 26 by: pacifist

    BTW, I was astonished to see the new design of this site. (I first misunderstood that the site was censored by someone… 🙂

  27. comment number 27 by: General Tiger

    pacifist:

    Okay, General Tiger, I can’t say exactly that SK is censoring all the sites concerning Takeshima/Dokdo but one thing is certain that a Japanese site is not accesable from Korea while it is accesable from Japan. It is highly likely blocked by the SK government, but is this site concerning NK? (I don’t think so)

    That’s why I believe it’s being blocked by the Japanese side, probably be the people who runs the forum: SK can’t block any foreign sites legally unless it’s caught under the National Security Law or any small laws that’s against porn, violence, etc.
    ponta:
    I know that incident: it shut down KOREAN sites (can’t you get that into your head, mate) that spread false info (unlike the intelligent arguments made by Gerry here). If you don’t know the exact details, find out before you manipulate things by taking it out of content.

  28. comment number 28 by: ponta

    ponta:
    I know that incident: it shut down KOREAN sites (can’t you get that into your head, mate) that spread false info (unlike the intelligent arguments made by Gerry here). If you don’t know the exact details, find out before you manipulate things by taking it out of content.

    That means Korea censored pro-Japanese sites, isn’t it?
    I am sorry I didn’t know in Korea, you don’t call it censorship if what is censored is written in Korean and published in Korea.
    But that is horrible situation, isn’t it? NO wonder some of Koreans are not used to make intelligent argument with the government censoring opponent’s argument.

  29. comment number 29 by: General Tiger

    ponta:
    *Facepalm*
    It wasn’t JUST a few pro-Japanese sites: If you had actually bothered to look at them then, even pro-Takeshima people (unless they were equally as stupid and flamable as the site makers) would have agreed that they should have been shut down.
    .
    Your utter ignorance, or unwillingness to know the facts, makes me pity you.

  30. comment number 30 by: helical

    I know some sites, on an individual basis, will block access from all foreign domains or for particular countries if they have the power to for a variety of reasons.
    .
    A common reason is that they receive FTP attacks or DoS attacks from a particular country or outside of the .jp domain. Or, some admins don’t appreciate community sites being overrun by content in foreign languages. It could just be comment spam or trackback ping spamming coming from foreign domains.
    I once had a blog that somehow kept on getting spammed from IP addresses in China, Egypt, Korea, Russia, and the United States. If I wasn’t concerned about readers from foreign countries (which is a more plausible decision when using a not-so-universal language like Japanese than English) I’d block access from some or all of those countries.
    .
    While censorship from the Korean side may be within the realm of possibility, I don’t think we should jump to conclusions, especially with what General Tiger is saying about being blocked only from http://kukkuri.jpn.org/

  31. comment number 31 by: ponta

    .
    Your utter ignorance, or unwillingness to know the facts, makes me pity you.

    Thank you for pitying me.
    So pro-takeshima people was shut down. Is it not censor?
    Why the hell does government interfere with pro-Takeshima sites? In Korean does “two rocks ” counts as porno???? or does it count as too violent?????
    And where did it say people agree to be shut down?
    And in Korea do people just agree to shut down because the government asked them to ?

    p.s. General Tigers be patient. They way you comment is going away from an “intelligent talk” .

  32. comment number 32 by: General Tiger

    ponta:
    First, I’ll apologize for that outburst. I admit that it was a bit over the top. Now, the answers to your questions:
    1. What is your definition of censor, then? Or rather, what kind of censor are you against? Hiding evidence of a government’s part in running comfort women stations? Ignoring the atrocities of Nanking? Not telling the people how many people were massacured in Gwangju? Prohibiting nuclear secrets from being put in science journals?
    2. If you’re still thinking that http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ was blocked by the Korean government, read helical’s reply, and come back to me. Of course, if you choose to ignore him, then I’ll have to stop talking to a person who cannot see any alternative ideas that contradicts his own. Also, I don’t have the entire internet law with me: the porn and violence were just examples.
    3. People talked about it on Daum Agora and other such mass communication forums. Need I say more, or do you want to to go through thousands of threads to find them?
    4. Nope, if there is no real law supporting the shut-down, then people would fight agasint it. Or rather, the government wouldn’t have shut it down in the first place.

  33. comment number 33 by: ponta

    General Tiger

    1. What is your definition of censor, then?

    There are many definition depending on the scholar.
    But a dictionary definition is sufficient enough for this discussion.

    1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security

    2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable

    And suppressing pro-takeshima site is censorship

    read helical’s reply, and come back to me.

    I read it. But the comment does not apply to the case.
    It was shut down because of its content–pro-takeshima, and pro-Japanese according to the media.

    3. People talked about it on Daum Agora

    And did Korean people just follow government order?

    4. Nope, if there is no real law supporting the shut-down, then people would fight against it. Or rather, the government wouldn’t have shut it down in the first place.

    Hmmm. In Japan a law that allows censorship is unconstitutional. That is the point of “the rule of law” as against “a rule by law”.
    Is it not so in Korea?
    In Korea, is the government allowed to censor the publication because it is about something in favor of Japan’s claim to the territory if there is a law?
    It isn’t about security, it isn’t about public moral, but it is just about history of two rocks.
    And are Korean people satisfied because that is what the government say; the government knows the best?
    Do you really think the history of two rocks has an effect of harming youngster’s physical and mental health?

  34. comment number 34 by: General Tiger

    Ponta:

    I read it. But the comment does not apply to the case.
    It was shut down because of its content–pro-takeshima, and pro-Japanese according to the media.

    Have any actual evidence that the Korean government censored http://kukkuri.jpn.org/? If you think that way, show some: the burden of evidence is on the claimint.

    And did Korean people just follow government order?

    Where did you infer that brilliant piece of statement? Check 4. for your answer.

    Your answer to 4.

    *Sigh* Seem liek your stuck in your narrow point of view. Answer my above comments, then I’ll answer this.

  35. comment number 35 by: General Tiger

    PS: If you do not answer the first question in the post avoid, I’ll have to stop, since it’s impossible to discuss something with a person who avoids questions of which the answer could undermine his own arguments.

  36. comment number 36 by: kjeff

    ponta,

    And suppressing pro-takeshima site is censorship.

    Yes, but the fact is you don’t really know what’s being written on those sites besides of what is being reported. I think a lot of ‘questionable’ things can be said under the umbrella of “pro-takeshima,” and I don’t mean reasonable arguments as Gerry has presented here in the Dokdo’s series. I think your deduction is flawed; you would call Gerry’s arguments pro-takeshima, no? (well, perhaps you’d rather call it ‘pro-truth’) And, I believe Gerry is currently residing in Korea, and freely posting on this matter.

    I read it. But the comment does not apply to the case.
    It was shut down because of its content–pro-takeshima, and pro-Japanese according to the media.

    I believe that helical’s comment was specific to the Japanese site that Gerry couldn’t open earlier(as was General Tiger’s), and not the Korean sites that YOU brought up. So I think it is your comment that “does not apply to the case.”

    In Japan a law that allows censorship is unconstitutional. That is the point of “the rule of law” as against “a rule by law”.

    Well, I’m under the impression that your government is rather notorious in censoring ‘unflaterring’ sections of your history, or am I brainwashed by the lazy foreign media? Oops, strike that… Censor is too strong a word, I think the preferred words are “watered-down” or hmmm, a good one…”selective”.

  37. comment number 37 by: ponta

    General tiger

    Have any actual evidence that the Korean government censored http://kukkuri.jpn.org/?

    Hey when did I start talking about http://kukkuri.jpn.org/?
    I brought up the link
    https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=609#comment-22781
    You said you knew it.
    https://www.occidentalism.org/?p=609#comment-22783
    But you changed the subject because you get angry at being cornered.

    If you do not answer the first question in the post avoid, I’ll have to stop,

    Better escaping than being cornered?

    Kjeff

    the fact is you don’t really know what’s being written on those sites besides of what is being reported. I think a lot of ‘questionable’ things can be said under the umbrella of “pro-takeshima,”

    Right, that is why it is important to be protected.
    Besides I want to ask why the hell you want to make such a skewed assumption.

    I believe Gerry is currently residing in Korea, and freely posting on this matter.

    Right, He was employed in another university, but he was fired because he wrote about dokdo in
    favor of Japan, pressured by Koreans people
    And the fact remains that the government censored pro-Takeshima sites as the article said, and as you and General tiger know.
    That is telling.
    And yet you guys think there is nothing wrong about it? and you guys want to change the subject because you want to cover up the hurting truth?

    I believe that helical’s comment was specific to the Japanese site that Gerry couldn’t open earlier(as was General Tiger’s), and not the Korean sites that YOU brought up. So I think it is your comment that “does not apply to the case.”

    I don’t think so. Look I brought up the link and General tiger is supposed to talk about it, but he changed the subject.
    No, Helical comment does not apply the case I took
    up.

    I’m under the impression that your government is rather notorious in censoring ‘unflaterring’ sections of your history, or am I brainwashed by the lazy foreign media? Oops, strike that… Censor is too strong a word, I think the preferred words are “watered-down” or hmmm, a good one…”selective”.

    I am afraid you are brainwashed. There are hundreds of interpretations of history in Japan , some Japanese historians paint Japanese history as dark as possible and there are several history textbooks in Japan unlike Korea. Textbooks are subjects to be supervised because you are not supposed to teach, say 1 +1=3.
    But even when the textbook didn’t pass the test for
    school textbook, it is allowed to be published in public;you can buy it at the bookstore.
    But you can not read the content of the Korean site s about Takeshima because the government shut down, and you guys think there is nothing wrong with it?

    General Tigers and Kjeff.
    As I said before, you can defend Korea as much as you want.
    We are talking about the case where pro-takeshima sites were shut down by the government.
    Kjeff admit it is censorship, the article says it is a site about takeshima and yet do you think it is justified? Is that Korean freedom of expression?
    Kjeff, you are educated in the U.S, aren’t you?

    There might be many things about Korea you don’t want other people to see like a bee-man or a flag biter . Japan has such things too. But when you defend the wrongs blindly just because it is Korean, I am afraid that that—and inability to talk in a cool headed manner—- makes Korea look worse,

  38. comment number 38 by: helical

    Sorry for being not clear in my comment above.
    .
    I consider it much more likely that the reason http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ is not viewable in Korea is due to a range of reasons more common and plausible (at the moment at least) than censorship, as I listed above. It may be blocked from the Japanese side simply because it received DoS attacks or spam from the Korean internet domain.
    Large sites that attract a lot of attention (especially sites like 2ch which attract the “passionate” kind of attention) regularly block access temporarily from particular domains, both in and out of Japan if people are spamming it or performing DoS or DDoS attacks against it.
    So, given that only that site was inaccessible out of many and there doesn’t seem to be any particularly damning content compared to other sites, I say that it’s too hasty to proclaim that particlar instance as a case of censorship.
    .
    However that doesn’t mean I said there was no censorship in Korea. (I don’t think anyone’s interpreting my comment that way, but just in case)
    The case of those pro-Takeshima sites being shut down IS definitely censorship of unfavorable opinion for political ends in my opinion.
    I probably shouldn’t throw out more examples since it’s bound to cause confusion here, but I personally consider Korea more likely than Japan to overtly ignore laws and principles in favor of popular sentiment or political motives, since there was that recent incident concerning the retroactive law resulting in the confiscation of the posessions of families of “Japanese collaborators”, for example.
    .
    The pro-Takeshima sites was likely mentioned as evidence to show there is indeed censorship present in Korea, but I don’t think that applies to the case of http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ in light of the presence of other viewable sites.
    Unless there is any evidence otherwise, I personally think that is the most reasonable assumption.

  39. comment number 39 by: kjeff

    ponta,

    No, Helical comment does not apply the case I took
    up.

    and this is what General Tiger wrote,

    If you’re still thinking that http://kukkuri.jpn.org/ was blocked by the Korean government, read helical’s reply, and come back to me.

    Clearly, he was not referring to YOUR case.

    Right, that is why it is important to be protected.
    Besides I want to ask why the hell you want to make such a skewed assumption.

    As an ideal, I’m as much as the next guy in advocating free-speech, but there’s certain limited, as it should be, circumstances that it may not be ‘practical’.(an anti-abortion site advocating killing doctors for example) Now I don’t know the exact circustances of the cases you brought up, and the fact is you don’t know either. What I do know is that occidentallism.org can be viewed and ‘enjoyed’ in Korea, and that’s enough to suggest that the said ‘censorships’ were not based on the sites being pro-takeshima alone.

    Right, He was employed in another university, but he was fired because he wrote about dokdo in
    favor of Japan, pressured by Koreans people

    Think about what Gerry is doing for a minute. Essentially, through his research, and its publication on this site, he’s trying to erode Korean territorial sovereignity as viewed by her government and her people. And please don’t misunderstand this as right or wrong, truth or lies; I said those above despite Gerry’s academical merit. And yet, he continued to stay, continued to teach, albeit different school(btw, people have been fired for much much less), continue to research, and continue to publish his research. A less enlightened(lol, this’ll bring some heat) country will not be as generous.

    But even when the textbook didn’t pass the test for
    school textbook, it is allowed to be published in public;you can buy it at the bookstore.

    I was never what you call an A student(a lucky B+ most of the time) so I never bought additional history text-books other than the ones suggested by the school; I’m hard-pressed to say that I actually read all of those even. Censorship takes many forms.

  40. comment number 40 by: ponta

    Kjeff

    Clearly, he was not referring to YOUR case.

    Right because he changed the subject in order not to face the fact that he was cornered.
    He had been talking about the article about pro-takeshima site.
    .
    I took up the incident about SK blocking pro-Takeshima sites at comment 69
    General Tiger responded to it at comment 71, saying that “those pro-Japanese sites are Daum Cafe”
    I quoted the article about pro-takeshima site at 75
    General Tiger responded to the comment 75, saying the site shut down was Korean site.
    I responded to it saying so it was shut down.
    General Tiger lost temper , saying “Your utter ignorance, or unwillingness to know the facts, makes me pity you.”, which make him just like some of Koreans comm enters whose favorite are name-calling.
    On comment 82, he reveals he didn’t know the difference between a rule of law as against a rule by law, talking as if it is okay as long as there is a law .
    And on 84 , cornered he suddenly changed the subject to http://kukkuri.jpn.org/?
    He lost temper, he called names, he escaped just as some of Korean commenter have done.

    As an ideal, I’m as much as the next guy in advocating free-speech, …..Now I don’t know the exact circumstances of the cases you brought up, and the fact is you don’t know either

    According to the article I linked it is obvious it was pro-Japanese sites, pro-takeshima site. And General Tigers knows the incident.
    You don’t want to face it because you lose the argument if you admits that it is just pro-takshima sites, and the they were shut down just because of that.

    A less enlightened(lol, this’ll bring some heat) country will not be as generous

    Sure South Korea is more enlightened than North Korea. I have never denied it.

    Censorship takes many forms.

    The point is teachers and parents have choices to choose unlike Korean history textbook.
    And once you ban the site, you have never have choice to view it or not to view it, to agree with it, or not to agree with.
    Korean people are deprived of the right to the freedom of expression , and they are satisfied.
    Surely SK is a bit enlightened than NK on this issue, but she can do better than that. And Korean people and ethnic Koreans can do better than blindly being apologist of Korean “brethren”. No?

  41. comment number 41 by: Kaneganese

    helical

    I asked Kukkuri-san if she is blocking access from Korea. She said she doesn’t do such a thing except for the few cases of continuous spam mailing IP adress. Her site is accessed from all over the world including USA, Australia, Canada and HongKong. By the way, no one inside Korea can not access from Korea? or is it just Gerry?

  42. comment number 42 by: kjeff

    ponta,

    According to the article I linked it is obvious it was pro-Japanese sites, pro-takeshima site. And General Tigers knows the incident.
    You don’t want to face it because you lose the argument if you admits that it is just pro-takshima sites, and the they were shut down just because of that.

    You seem to hinge your whole argument on that ONE article. Yes, those pro-Takeshima sites were shut-down, but my point was, and still is, that ‘pro-Takeshima’ is really just a label(as P.M. Abe is a nationalist) Unless you can provide further info, we don’t know, in details, what were actually being discussed. Where you have that ONE secondary(more like thirdary…) source, we, at this very moment, are discussing this issue in a blog that regularly feature Dokdo’s Lies & Half-Truths(is this the right title?). Do you not think that occidentalism.org is pro-takeshima? It’s not banned in Korea, is it? Don’t you think you should start to seriously wonder what it is that differentiates this blog from those sites? The fact is I don’t know, and neither do you. And I’m hoping that you’re not blindly advocating ‘any’ freedom of expressions simply because they fell under the big big-umbrella of pro-Takeshima.

  43. comment number 43 by: BliarandBush

    Hiya, I’m writing from the UK hoping to travel to South Korea and Japan to see the likes of, say the football stadiums and whatnot. It seems as though this site is made by Americans, with the sole purpose of bashing (from what I’ve read) Korea and praising Japan??

    Isn’t it just like you Americans to be minding others’ business when you have nothing whatsoever to do with them?!?

    Of course the above comment is highly racist though relative to what has been said on this site I’d say that its debateable at most.

    Jesus won’t you Americans ever learn? MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY COUNTRY THIS WORLD ISN’T YOURS!!

  44. comment number 44 by: pacifist

    BliarandBush,
    .

    with the sole purpose of bashing (from what I’ve read) Korea and praising Japan??

    The organizer of this site is an Australian and we don’t bash Korea. We love Korea but the country is still full of problems such as distorted education (including Takeshima/Dokdo issue), lack of freedom of speech, censorship etc because she is still trying to accomplish a demcratic society. We just want to help her.

  45. comment number 45 by: HanComplex

    Kjeff, you are educated in the U.S, aren’t you?

    There might be many things about Korea you don’t want other people to see like a bee-man or a flag biter . Japan has such things too. But when you defend the wrongs blindly just because it is Korean, I am afraid that that—and inability to talk in a cool headed manner—- makes Korea look worse,

    That’s what I’ve noticed about kjeff all along–he defends things simply because they are Korean. It’s typical behavior I notice of Koreans: more concerned of saving face rather than accepting criticism, let alone criticizing their own kind. Instead, they lash out against critics, deflect from the topic and bring up unrelated issues. I’m guessing kjeff thinks he’s defending his mother’s honor by blindly taking a pro-Korean stance each time. Quite a folly.

    This is one of the main reasons why Korea remains to be a backward nation and underdeveloped culture: the inability and/or dislike of introspection, self-correction and accepting criticism. Saving face and keeping up appearances seem to have far more importance. If Koreans keep this up their culture and nation will continue to stagnate and end up being just another third world backwater country. If that’s what they want, then that’s where their headed.

  46. comment number 46 by: kjeff

    HanComplex,

    That’s what I’ve noticed about kjeff all along–he defends things simply because they are Korean.

    Actually, I defend from those who bash things simply because they are Korean.

    It’s typical behavior I notice of Koreans: more concerned of saving face rather than accepting criticism, let alone criticizing their own kind.

    I’m assuming that you don’t read or speak Korean, and that your source of information is limited. If you’re looking for ‘real’ criticsm on ‘real’ issues, I suggest that you hang out more with Koreans.(Dokdo and comfort women, believe it or not, are not something that ordinary people really care deeply about) You’ll probably get ‘schooled’ on how Pres. Roh is ruining the country or how greedy developers are destroying the housing market, and work your way from there. If you talk to younger educated women, you’ll get an earful of male-chauvinism in the workplace; to older ones, you’ll get the drinking problem(and sometimes, the ‘women’ or the ‘domestic abuse’ problems) and the education problem. Be a little less selective on what you want to read and listen to, and you’ll get something different.

    This is one of the main reasons why Korea remains to be a backward nation and underdeveloped culture: the inability and/or dislike of introspection, self-correction and accepting criticism. Saving face and keeping up appearances seem to have far more importance. If Koreans keep this up their culture and nation will continue to stagnate and end up being just another third world backwater country. If that’s what they want, then that’s where their headed.

    And these are what you call criticisms?