Occidentalism
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Is it wrong to eat dog?

October 31st, 2006 . by Darin

Although the topic of discussion has not fully drifted to it yet, eating dog has come up in the comment section of this post.  Just in case someone had something they’d like to say but don’t want to hijack any threads to do so, I thought it would be appropriate to start a new one just for this topic.

My Points/Questions to consider while discussing:

– Dog raised for human consumption in Korea can be raised on a farm. Are there any differences between raising dog and raising cattle on a farm?

– It (dog meat) can also be purchased on the black market, probably from stolen pets. Does that mean the act of eating dog itself is wrong, or just stealing pets is wrong?

– Is it wrong to eat dog because dog is a pet? If so, is it natural for dogs to be pets, or is that only cultural?

– (In relation to the statement directly above) If western culture says dogs are a pet, not food, and western animal rights groups protest the human consumption of dog, is it okay for Indian animal rights groups to protest the human consumption of beef, as the cow is a very sacred animal in Indian culture?

– One major argument I hear against eating dog is the way it is prepared, or rather, the way it is killed. Apparently dog meat tastes better when hot oil is thrown on the dog before the slaughter. As with point/question 2, is the problem eating dog, or throwing hot oil on it?

As anyone can tell after reading my thoughts above, for the most part I don’t have a problem with the act of eating dog itself, but rather have issues with some of the steps that lead up to it. If those issues could be resolved, I see no inherit problem with eating dog.

But this discussion doesn’t stop with me, rather it only begins. Talk about the issue amongst yourselves, I’ll put good/interesting points both for and against eating dog up here as they come along. And be nice.

(And if this post is just, well, lame, tell me, and I’ll keep that in mind for future reference.)

Your points:

For:

– “… [T]he idea that dogs are special and somehow less deserving of the suffering of being slaughtered than other animals is illogical. The treatment of dogs in Korea is often deplorable, but so is that of all animals reared for meat in Korea, and indeed around the world. Nothing different here.” dudeinwales

– “Personally I find it morally unacceptable to torture animals before they are slaughtered, otherwise there is no problem with eating them as long as they are tasty.” eli

– “The barbaric practice of torturing the animal before it is slaughtered ’so that it tastes better’ must be banned immediately. I believe that is the most important step they can take to bring the rest of the world around to the fact that it is just an animal raised on a farm to be eaten.” jonallen

– “I agree, for anyone living in Australia just look at the ads placed in both sunday papers advetising the extremely inhumane way pigs and cows and chickens are treated in australia and most countries for human consumption. Humans dont eat other carnivores? The biggest substitue for the everyday fish and chips is Shark meat and a shark is a carnivore. so this argument is pointless.Moreover the argument that they are our friends and help man well i ate Horse on my first trip to Japan and how long has horse been helping man? I dont think we have a right to judge Coreans on their dietry habits, whast the old saying “those in glass houses” …well im sure this applies to all of us” smackout

Against:

– “I personally think that there is something wrong with eating dog. Nowhere in the animal kingdom do carnivorous animals eat other carnivores. Humans don’t eat lions, but we could eat zebras or giraffes which the lions also eat. Look at the animals humans eat – cows, sheep, chicken, pigs. No carnivores among them.

Dogs are natural meat-eaters.” randomcow

Extra bonus points:

– “It’s a dog eat dog world…I’d just as soon eat people.” MarkA

Feel I’ve put your comment in the wrong catagory, or that I’ve misrepresented you? Just say so.


54 Responses to “Is it wrong to eat dog?”

  1. comment number 1 by: Fantasy

    Darin,

    I agree with the statement that there is nothing naturally apalling in eating dog meat, but the problem is the way the dog is kept and slaughtered.

    Dogs have been helpers for humans for thousands of years (e.g. as watchdogs or as assistants in hunting), therefore my reluctance in approving to turn them into food. But I realise that this is not entirely rational…

  2. comment number 2 by: James

    Personally, I don’t see any problem with eating animals that are not in danger of extinction. It always cracks me up when Korean groups get incredibly angry at comments made about Koreans eating dog. A majority of Koreans might not regularly eat dog meat, but at least come to grips with the fact that a sizable minority does, and that there isn’t anything inherently wrong with eating the meat from a cute little doggy. Instead of calling Jay Leno racist for making a joke about Koreans eating dogs, Korean groups should be defending the practice of eating dog: is it not stupid to claim that one particular domesticated animal (cows, sheep, chicken, horses, rabbit, etc.) is OK to eat, but dogs are not?

    So some Koreans eat dog meat. Big deal. The whole world doesn’t have to conform to western standards on what animals are cool to eat and what animals are off limits. I certainly don’t have a problem with Japanese hunting non-endangered minke whales and non-endangered dolphins, nor do I have a problem with horse meat.

    Oh, and just for reference: An anti-dog meat propaganda video. (and another) The practices shown in the video are pretty brutal, but we can’t be sure it is an accurate representation of the dog meat industry as a whole.

  3. comment number 3 by: GarlicBreath

    I think its interesting that Koreans will justify their dog eating ways by talking about how japanese eat whales.

    I think that eating dogs is slightly above eating children. In other words, its wrong.

  4. comment number 4 by: randomcow

    I personally think that there is something wrong with eating dog. Nowhere in the animal kingdom do carnivorous animals eat other carnivores. Humans don’t eat lions, but we could eat zebras or giraffes which the lions also eat. Look at the animals humans eat – cows, sheep, chicken, pigs. No carnivores among them.

    Dogs are natural meat-eaters.

    RC

  5. comment number 5 by: dudeinwales

    Mind you, it could be argued that eating herbivores is less moral, given how defenceless and docile they are (not my opinion, but it does seem more logical than to say that to eating carnivores is somehow more wrong).

    The idea that killing and eating dogs is somehow particularly wrong. Bizarre. What’s particularly special about dogs? Absolutely nothing. I’m not convinced by the argument that they are somehow “clever” either. How many times have you seen a dumb dog chasing its’ tail? Doesn’t seem particularly clever to me: I’ve seen plenty of sheep that displayed more intelligence than dogs. There’s also the idea that dogs are “a man’s best friend”. So does that give people that have pet chickens a platform to demand an end to chicken slaughter? I understand (but do not agree with all of the conclusions of) vegans, however the idea that dogs are special and somehow less deserving of the suffering of being slaughtered than other animals is illogical. The treatment of dogs in Korea is often deplorable, but so is that of all animals reared for meat in Korea, and indeed around the world. Nothing different here.

  6. comment number 6 by: tomato

    Calling Koreans “dog-eaters” is just one form of name-calling, and I don’t think everyone who engages in this name-calling is doing it from his/her strong dedication against canine-festing. The name-calling does seem effective because in the English-speaking world, dog-eating is not well taken. So, it’s not so nice calling someone a “dog-eater”.

    I wonder how the blogmaster here will interpret this kind of lanuguage…is it just a joke, or is it racist?

  7. comment number 7 by: eli

    Look at the animals humans eat – cows, sheep, chicken, pigs.

    Bad example. Pigs are omnivorous just like humans and will eat other livestock if they can. Humans still hunt and eat bears (here in the United States anyway). People don’t eat other carnivores more often because of risk factors and population levels, not because of moral reasoning.

    Personally I find it morally unacceptable to torture animals before they are slaughtered, otherwise there is no problem with eating them as long as they are tasty.

  8. comment number 8 by: Richardson

    Like some of the others, I’ve no problem with other people eating dog meat itself, but the method the dogs are killed precludes me from ever doing so, at least in Korea and as long as I’m not starving to death.

  9. comment number 9 by: chul_soo

    i believe that it is perfectly okay to eat a dog even though i could never eat it, unless i am starving like north korean children. what i am curious about is that koreans are not the only dog eaters in this planet, but they recieve all the heat for eat dogs. In china and some southeast asia, dog meats are sold openly but people never seem to complain about that. perhaps international communities are upset with koreans eating dogs because korean dogs are killed in inhumane way. but i would like to point out that not all dogs are killed in inhumane way.

  10. comment number 10 by: jonallen

    When I first told friends I was coming to Korea almost the first thing most people said to me was ‘They eat dog there, don’t they?’

    Unfortunately Koreans are going to have to get used to the fact that the rest of the world, for what ever reason, thinks this is a bad thing.

    Since making it semi illegal has not done any good (If you ban something it just drives it underground) what they should do is sort out the law and make it clear that it is legal to raise dogs and sell them for consumption but all farms must be inspected and certified.

    The barbaric practice of torturing the animal before it is slaughtered ‘so that it tastes better’ must be banned immediately. I believe that is the most important step they can take to bring the rest of the world around to the fact that it is just an animal raised on a farm to be eaten.

    For the record I have eaten bosintang since I have been here. It was not that great, a bit gamey maybe. I do not plan to eat it again, I would rather have a better tasting beef, pork or chicken dish.

  11. comment number 11 by: helical

    I have no problem with eating dog. As it has been stated above by other people, I do not have an issue with eating dog meat itself, but if the dogs were unnecessarily tortured before being killed, that would make me uncomfortable.
    For the intelligence argument, pigs are very intelligent animals for example, on par with dogs. So we would have to give up eating many other animals if we were to abide by that argument.

    I’ve heard some horror/comical stories of pet dogs being abducted and eaten by others in Korea, but criticism based on that has nothing to do with the practice of eating dog itself, rather just incidents involving retards or asses with no regard for others’ claims on pets as far as I can tell. Perhaps that’s another reason for the dog-eater name-calling?

  12. comment number 12 by: James

    chul_soo:

    Many of the PETA videos that contain absolutely horrid torture and treatment of dogs at meat markets are filmed in China. I saw one a few months ago (which has been removed from YouTube because of its graphic content), that showed Chinese men taking a dog by its hind legs and clubbing the dog into the ground until it died. It was pretty brutal stuff. Perhaps it is more of a regional thing in China, so they don’t get pegged with the national image of dog-eaters that the Koreans do?

    I agree with eli’s comments about carnivores: Human beings don’t eat them because it is far easier to raise non-carnivores on farms. Also, animals like cows, pigs, and chickens probably yield much more meat than dogs or lions.

  13. comment number 13 by: kojibomb

    I have some questions.
    Did Koreans start to eat dogs recently or in the past?
    I thought Koreans began to eat dogs because after the Korean war they had nothing to eat other than dogs.

    And, how do they kill dogs that make it so inhumane?
    Aren’t other animals that we eat like cows slaughtered in inhumane ways also?

    Anyways, I just think eating dog is not right neither eating whales. I just think its reprehensible behavior.

  14. comment number 14 by: smackout

    I agree, for anyone living in Australia just look at the ads placed in both sunday papers advetising the extremely inhumane way pigs and cows and chickens are treated in australia and most countries for human consumption. Humans dont eat other carnivores? The biggest substitue for the everyday fish and chips is Shark meat and a shark is a carnivore. so this argument is pointless.Moreover the argument that they are our friends and help man well i ate Horse on my first trip to Japan and how long has horse been helping man? I dont think we have a right to judge Coreans on their dietry habits, whast the old saying “those in glass houses” …well im sure this applies to all of us

  15. comment number 15 by: Matt

    By the way, here is the last debate about dog eating.

  16. comment number 16 by: smackout

    Lastly.Dogs are smart….so are whales..who eats them?

  17. comment number 17 by: kojibomb

    that is very cruel…
    beat… hanged… burned…
    Definately change their method of killing.

  18. comment number 18 by: James

    smackout:

    Dogs are smart? Aren’t pigs supposedly smart as well?

  19. comment number 19 by: helical

    kojibomb,

    A quick search on Wikipedia showed that eating dogs goes way back.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

    The consumption of dog meat has a long tradition in Korea. Dog bones were excavated in a neolithic settlement in Changnyeong, South Gyeongsang Province. One of the wall paintings in the Koguryo tombs complex in South Hwangghae Province, a UNESCO World Heritage site which dates from 4th century A.D., depicts a slaughtered dog in a storehouse.

    It is written on the Japanese page of Wikipedia that eating dogs was a tradition in Japan as well, until it faded out with occasional bans, and the importing of western culture and values.
    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8A%AC%E8%82%89%E9%A3%9F

    The controversial method of slaughter of dogs in Korea is as follows, also from the Wikipedia article.

    Another part of the controversy stems from the methods of slaughter, one of which includes beating to death by clubs (a criminal offense in many countries), which is thought to tenderize the meat.[4] Some vendors claim they put the dog through considerable pain and torment during the slaughter, which is thought to increase levels of adrenalin and thereby improve the value of the meat as a source of added virility.[5]

    Slaughter of other livestock is very streamlined, with modern methods usually employing electric shock to instantly kill or render the animal unconscious, then the blood is drained which would kill the animal if not already dead.

  20. comment number 20 by: MarkA

    It’s a dog eat dog world…I’d just as soon eat people.

  21. comment number 21 by: kojibomb

    helical,
    thank you=p for answering this question and the other about chosenjin thing. So it is part of our culture. I agree with you that method of slaughter of dogs in Korea is extremely cruel. They should change their ways.

    Korean law technically prohibits dog meat[citation needed], but the laws are not enforced

    oh… so it is illegal to eat dogs in Korea also… wiki has alot of useful information, but are they reliable?

  22. comment number 22 by: chul_soo

    it’s all about dogs being cute. whaling is also inhumane and cruel but people dont give a damn because whales are not as cute as dogs.

  23. comment number 23 by: smackout

    Many cows are still conscious when they are hoisted by a hind leg breaking bones and tearing ligaments in the process, and their throats are cut and dismemberment begins (http://www.alv.org.au/issues/cattle/cattle.php)
    The eletric shock (which is actually a metal pistol which is smashed into their brain) often misses there brain so cows are still completely conscious during their own slaughter. Moreover according to DMT123 problems are frequent with amperage and cows are often paralyzed without losing thier senses…This is so called Streamlined process is completely cruel and cannot be discounted in this debate against coreans and thier cruelty

  24. comment number 24 by: Untainted

    I will never personally seek for dog meats, but in my view, dog meat itself or eating practice are fine..

    It would be a controversy to be ok on cow slaughters but not ok for dogs for numerous reasons which have been already brought up above..
    I have heard many reasons why it is apalling to consume dog meats, but I have not yet to encounter any compelling rebuttals.

    My last comment is our current animal (both cow and dogs) slaughtering process is much in need of change from a humane* perspective.

    I like beef, so don’t nobody quote me nothing.

  25. comment number 25 by: ponta

    My opinion is that nothing is wrong with dog eating as long as cow eating is not wrong. As somebody pointed out, vegetarians would protest the way cows are killed.

    kojibomb

    I have some questions.
    Did Koreans start to eat dogs recently or in the past?
    I thought Koreans began to eat dogs because after the Korean war they had nothing to eat other than dogs

    KOREANS and DOG MEAT

    Eating dog meat is Korea’s own inherent food culture, which has a long history…………… The history that Koreans used dog meat as food was originated from such a long time ago long that it cannot be dated back.

    Bishop, Isabelle mentions in her book the custom of Korean dog-eating.
    Nou’s article about dog eating is enlightening in knowing how the average Korean person feel about dog eating.
    Urbanara

    helical

    It is written on the Japanese page of Wikipedia that eating dogs was a tradition in Japan as well, until it faded out with occasional bans, and the importing of western culture and values.
    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8A%AC%E8%82%89%E9%A3%9F

    I think all it says is that there seems to be some people who ate dogs in Japan. I am not sure if it is accurate to describe it as “tradition”
    Japanese mainstream tradition is rather against killing and eating the animals which has four legs. And that is one reason why people related to killing and eating such animals were segregated. (The segregation was groundless, though).

    The problem with China is that recently dog’s right is more protected than human right.
    The press in China is free to cover protests over a Beijing-ordered dog slaughter. But when it comes to human rights, it’s a whole different story
    There is no excuse, China: Nangpa La video shows border guards sharpshoot refugees

  26. comment number 26 by: smackout

    Ponta , i disagree with you a horse meat or 馬刺し, ばさし is commonly eaten in japan and a horse does have four legs,,,,,,

  27. comment number 27 by: tomato

    Ponta , i disagree with you a horse meat or 馬刺し, ばさし is commonly eaten in japan and a horse does have four legs,,,,,,

    No, smackout. Eating beast meat begun after Japan opened herself to the wetern world in the late 19th century. Until then, eating beasts were considered a sin, accoriding to the Buddhist tradition at the time. There are records that people cheated on this ban (like eating wild boars by calling it a “mountain-whale”- note that whales were not considered to be beasts but more like fish), but in general “good” citizens were not supposed to eat beast.

  28. comment number 28 by: ponta

    a horse meat or 馬刺し, ばさし is commonly eaten in japan and a horse does have four legs,,,,,,

    I don’t think so. Can you get it at a supermarket near by? I live in Tokyo, I have never seen horse meat sold at supermarket or meat shops. a quick research told me that horse meat was taken as a medicine.
    It is true that a few people eat horse meat in Japan, but majority rarely eat horse meat. I have never tasted it. I know no Japanese who eat horse meat “commonly”. I am afraid that it is far from the truth that a horse meat is “commonly” eaten.

  29. comment number 29 by: tomato

    It is true that a few people eat horse meat in Japan, but majority rarely eat horse meat. I have never tasted it. I know no Japanese who eat horse meat “commonly”. I am afraid that it is far from the truth that a horse meat is “commonly” eaten.

    Not if you go to Kyushu. Or Aizu in the north. They’re all around. It is quite common.

  30. comment number 30 by: GarlicBreath

    Hi Tomato,

    Is it an insult to call Koreans ‘dog eaters’? why is that. Because Americans don’t eat dog? The british are called “beef eaters”. Is this not correct? Is this a great insult because those in India dont eat beef?

    Naturally, you can turn anything in to an insult, but as far as I know dog eating restaruants are all over Korea and its part of their 5000 years of history.
    35% of korean dog owners eat the dog.
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20060808/ai_n16662424

    Koreans are very proud of eating dog. I find it a shameful act.

  31. comment number 31 by: ponta

    Tomato

    Not if you go to Kyushu. Or Aizu in the north. They’re all around. It is quite common.

    Thanks for the imformation.

  32. comment number 32 by: chul_soo

    hi garlicbreath
    i think it is insulting to call a korean a dog eater if one’s intention is to insult them. For example, sumo wrestlers are morbidly obese and they are probably proud of it. If they are not proud of it, why would they remain fat and be a sumo wrestler? however, it will be very rude for me to call a sumo wrestler a “fat man” or “chunk of lard” even if he is proud of his size of his belly.

  33. comment number 33 by: tomato

    Thanks for the imformation

    Sakura is good with Kyushu Shochu, I think. BTW, I wouldn’t recommend bear.

  34. comment number 34 by: kojibomb

    GarlicBreath,

    Is it an insult to call Koreans ‘dog eaters’?

    Anything becomes an insult if someone gets offended by it, and ‘dog eaters’ will offend some Korean people. Maybe someone who don’t approve of eating dogs?

    I know dog eating restaruants are all over Korea and its part of their 5000 years of history

    Wrong… this summer before my school started, I went to Japan and Korea for about 1 and a half month. SK changed alot since I last visited (about 8 years ago).
    Before, you could find sign “보신탕” or dog meat on some but rare restaraunts, but now, I didn’t see one restaurant with it. I think the government banned it now, so people who eat dog meat is getting it illegally.

    35% of korean dog owners eat the dog.

    Maybe this is true, but you see, dog meat is considered as a health food? one of those asian absurb myths that dog gives man power =p etc.
    Wiki says
    The average Korean does not consume dog meat, as it is generally considered a medicinal dish (either to promote male virility or to combat the heat in summer). Many Korean Buddhists consider eating dog an offense. Unlike beef, pork, or poultry, dog meat has no legal status as food in South Korea. There is an opinion in South Korea that dog meat should be legalized so that only authorized preparers can deal with the meat in more humane ways, while others think eating dogs should be banned by law. During the FIFA World Cup, in the face of foreign pressure to ban the sale of dog meat, a group of prominent South Koreans wrote an open letter in support of dog-eating.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

  35. comment number 35 by: swingtastic

    kojibomb Said:
    this summer before my school started, I went to Japan and Korea for about 1 and a half month. SK changed alot since I last visited (about 8 years ago).
    Before, you could find sign “보신탕” or dog meat on some but rare restaraunts, but now, I didn’t see one restaurant with it.

    Sorry,
    보신탕 BoshinTang is still common in Korea if you know where to look.
    I live near Seoul Station and I know like 5 restaurants within walking distance that sell Dog Soup.
    I know it’s not popular in Apugujung or Shinchon, where the kids hang out, but it’s not underground at all. One store is two minutes down the street from the National Police Center.
    ______________________________
    I’ll also back up Tomato. You can find Basashi (raw horse meat) in Kyushu easier than Tokyo, but it’s obviously less popular and less common than other meats.

    And I think the US just passed a law that Horses can’t be killed for meat anymore on the grounds that Horses are friends, not food.
    (did that law go through?)

    Horse owners are the most upset, because it leaves many old dying horses with no where to go, and horse burial is expensive.
    _____________________________

    randomcow Said:

    I personally think that there is something wrong with eating dog. Nowhere in the animal kingdom do carnivorous animals eat other carnivores.

    Polar Bears eat seals which eat fish that eat smaller fish.
    Mongoose eat Snakes. Birds of prey eat smaller birds that eat insects.
    Vultures eat Lions. And raccoons eat frogs. (Right? I could be wrong on these)
    ______________________________________________

    Inhumane slaughter and breeding conditions are a major problem for Pigs and chickens in corporate meat factories in North America.

    ________________________________________________________
    But whales seems really different to me.
    1. Because Japan and Norway and Iceland(?) don’t just kill Minke whales and dolphins, but they want to kill endangered whales like the Fin whale, and the Sperm whale.
    2.Norway and Iceland don’t even eat whale, they just want to sell it to Japan.
    3. Because whales have family groups, and killing them disturbs the family, and I read whales even grieve for lost members. (Do whales mate for life?)
    4. There isn’t any Humane way to kill a whale. It always involves suffering.

    These are just not true for Dogs.
    Now I think eating Chicken, Pork and Beef is wrong too.
    Because the living conditions of those animals in the factory farms are terrible.
    I think people should only eat wild meat. So I only eat fish and Squid, and Octopus, and other mollusks.

  36. comment number 36 by: ponta

    .I think Korean people’s attitude is complex toward dog eating.

    1) It seems many Korean people do not feel disgust at eating dog meat just as many Japanese do not feel disgust at the thought of eating whale meat.
    (These days a few people consume it, but I remember eating it when I was a child. If somebody served it, I would feel no hesitation. BTW I am neither proud nor ashamed of the fact the some Japanese eat whale meats. I agree with James on this point, as far as there is no fear that the whale will extinct whale hunting countries are justified in hunting just as hunting dear is justified.)

    2)It is a psychological fact that many people in non-dog eating culture feel disgust at the thought of eating dogs because dogs are not something to be eaten but friends.

    3)Some Koreans, especially kyopo who are raised in the west country, feel double binded. On the one hand, they think nothing is wrong with eating dogs just as eating cows is not wrong. On the other hand they know western people feel disgust at it.
    So when Korean people hear non-Koreans call Korea a dog eating country, they hear some kind of negative feeling in it. As a result they sometimes overreact.
    I wonder if Chinese would react in the same way. They might just say, “Ethically eating dogs is as good as eating cows. hey you’ve never eaten dogs, eat it, you’ll love it.”.

    it will be very rude for me to call a sumo wrestler a “fat man” or “chunk of lard” even if he is proud of his size of his belly.

    It will be rude because being fat is often associated with negative value. In a culture where being fat is envied, there is nothing rude to call someone a fat man. Calling sumo wrestler sumo wrestler, or a big man is not offensive.

    Anything becomes an insult if someone gets offended by it, and ‘dog eaters’ will offend some Korean people

    Words can be neutral with some people offended.
    In this sense dog eating country is as neutral as fish eating country.
    But I see your point.

    In most of the contexts, calling Korea a dog eating country is irrelevant,

    Coupled with the fact that people in dogs-are-friends culture are offended at the thought of eating dogs on a psychological basis and the fact some Korean people are sensitive to good image of about Korea, calling Korea a dog -eating country in irrelevant context will result in sounding insult.

    I think for a good discussion, it is a bit pointless to agitate unnecessary clamor.

  37. comment number 37 by: kojibomb

    Is it wrong to eat dog?

    This is what I think. It is wrong to eat dogs because they are killed in a cruel matter. But is there a humane way to ‘cook’ dogs?

    Also, these restaurants are ran illegally so no inspections licenses etc… Are these restaurants safe?

    Koreans should stop eating dogs for themselves and man’s best friends.

  38. comment number 38 by: kojibomb

    swingtastic…

    really?? lol…

    but I went to Kyung Ju which is country right? and never saw any dog meat signs….

    I ve been to the Seoul station… its pretty cool building… I ve been near that place too though… Isn’t NamDaemoom and DongDaeMoon near that place?? I guess… I missed them…

  39. comment number 39 by: ponta

    swingtastic

    But whales seems really different to me.

    I think whales seems no different.

    1. Because Japan and Norway and Iceland(?) don’t just kill Minke whales and dolphins, but they want to kill endangered whales like the Fin whale, and the Sperm whale.

    I am not sure this is true.As far as i know, scientific research judged that there was no fear of extinction. Isn’t that so?

    2.Norway and Iceland don’t even eat whale, they just want to sell it to Japan.

    It seems this is irrelevant to the argument.

    3. Because whales have family groups, and killing them disturbs the family, and I read whales even grieve for lost members. (Do whales mate for life?)

    4. There isn’t any Humane way to kill a whale. It always involves suffering.
    These are just not true for Dogs.

    Dogs and cows and whale are sentient being. They all suffer when slaughtered.

    But on the whole you are consistent in objecting to killing any sentient animal .
    And to tell you the truth, I think it is hard to refute your position. All I can say is that hunting whale is justified in the same sense that hunting dear is justified.

  40. comment number 40 by: swingtastic

    Well Ponta I basically have to agree with you.

    #2 is irrelevant to my argument, so I should have mentioned it afterward, because it just bothers me that Norway and Icelandic whalers claim a right to hunt, and they just want to sell it.

    Also, I totally agree that whaling today is very much within limits.
    But Japan kills 39 endangered Sei Whales each year, and Iceland kills 9 endangered Fin whales.
    Scientific study (by Japan and Iceland, especially) claims that whale populations are recovering, and I’m inclined to believe them.

    But a quick look at Wikipedia can still explain what I mean about whaling being cruel.
    [ whales are killed at sea often using explosive harpoons, which puncture the skin of the whale and then explode inside the body. Anti-whaling groups say this method of killing is cruel, particularly if carried out by inexperienced gunners, because the whale can take several minutes or even hours to die.]

    A cow or pig or dog you could knock out before killing. (Not that they always do, but they could right?)

    Ultimitally, whales are better to eat, because at least they lived free most of their lives instead of in a factory farm like Pigs or chickens.

    Hunting whale is similar to hunting deer. Except that deer die faster, and it doesn’t disrupt the lives of other deer.

    I’d be happy to eat meat if I knew it was farmed responsibly.
    ———————————————————

    My friends in smaller cities said they have dog restaurants there too.
    Boshintang restaurants are usually on sidestreets, or in traditional parts of town, or backalleys… just like the brothels, except less well advertised.

  41. comment number 41 by: tomato

    2.Norway and Iceland don’t even eat whale, they just want to sell it to Japan.

    This is utterly false! You should go to Iceland to see. Of course the Norse eat whales! It is in their tradition to hunt and consume whales… much like the Japanese. But this is off the subject here, so I’ll leave it for now.

  42. comment number 42 by: GarlicBreath

    Dog eating can be found in every part of Korea. If you live in Korea, and walk around a bit, you will sooner or later notice houses with a filthy dog tied to a post. The poor dog is being fed the household garbage, and is usually sick. But no matter, soon that dog will be beat until its death, and then ate.

  43. comment number 43 by: KittyGeorge

    Eskimos is said to be eating whales.
    Americans were hunting whales just to take the oil for lamp.
    They say there is a tradition to eat dogs in an area of Germany and Swiss.
    I am not such a holy person as can blame other people’s food culture.
    However, Koreans should abandon the superstition that the more pain dogs feel, the more delicious the meat become.
    http://www.all-creatures.org/ha/kaps.html
    Here is another site but is this true?
    http://tcnweb.ne.jp/~perfect/
    china.htm

  44. comment number 44 by: ponta

    swingtastic
    Thanks
    Just for fun.
    If I were to deny animal eating, I would hold the position that whatever way you kill, it is wrong to kill sentient animals in a condition where you can survive without killing them because being sentient is sufficient condition for being a moral agent to be considered. And I would argue just as it is wrong to kill an orphan with little intelligence who has no family alive in a humane way because s/he is a sentient being , and hence, s/he is qualified as an moral agent, it is wrong to kill sentient animals.
    Your argument as it is allows somebody to kill such an person in a “humanistic way”. (And if you claim that the two cases are different because one is human beings, another is just animal, then you are commited to the view that being human is essentical to be counted as an moral agent. In that case, your argument will amount to be saying that animal can not be counted as an moral agent, and that happens to be the ground for the claim that animal eating is justified because animal does not count as an moral agent.) But there are many arguments for and against animal right, I am not sure wihch view you would hold, though.

    My argument for whale hunting is that as someone pointed out, cow killing, chicken killing is as cruel as whale killing. Rather, as you pointed out, whale are left free until slaughtered, and the explosive harpoon is not as bad as the way chicken and cows are killed. (Maybe it is much more humanistic way than the way the dogs are killed for food and it takes time for the dear to die finally after it is shot) Therefore, as long as cow killing for eating is justified, whale killing is justified.
    Anti-whale hunting group is just morally inconsistent if they are engaging in the activity, eating a big Mac. And to some extent the same thing , I think, can be said of anti-dog eater. But in any case , it is much better if killing dogs can be done in a less painful way.

  45. comment number 45 by: seouldout

    A good read on the history of domesticated animals and thus our diet is Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies.

    As an omnivore I have no complaints about Koreans eating dog. As a modern human being I do find fault with cruelty, and torturing dogs (and any other animal) is inhumane. I’m sure that an “advanced society”, such as Korea claims, could develop some type of technology that can eliminate the cruelty without sacrificing the taste. And as a foreign bastard I find it amusing to wind Koreans up. Perhaps when Koreans develop thicker skins and decide to shrug off “criticisms” the jokes at their expense will subside. But until then, you inbred dog-eating oafs…

  46. comment number 46 by: Two Cents

    ponta,
    While I agree with ponta that eating “four-legged animals” was shunned traditionally in Japan due to the influence of Buddhism, to say that it was not practiced at all is stretching it a bit. The reason why boar, deer, and horse meat are called botan (peony), momiji (autum maple), and sakura (cherry blossom) and rabbits are counted by 羽 (units for birds) is because they were consumed, but under the pretense that they were either non-animals or birds. After all, if you lived in a mountainous area away from a source for fish and had a choice between eating the above or insects (like the poeple of the Inadani area, Nagano, who had no choice) for protein, which would you choose? BTW, ponta, 馬刺 (horse sashimi) is extremly tasty and just melts in your mouth. Like fish, horse fat softens at lower temperatures than beef, so their flavor is released in the mouth even when they have not been cooked. I recommend it highly. Best with shoyu and ginger.

    As for the Koreans eating dogs, mother nature did not give us chlorophyll, and so we are destined to take the lives of other organisms for our survival, whether they be those of plants, herbivores, omnivores, or carnivores. I think it’s hyporcritical for anyone to say which animals are more intellegent and cute or more subservient to man and so should be expemt from being eaten. However, from the perspective of taste, I have found that herbivorous mammals are far more delicious than omnivorous ones (and this applies to whale meat).

  47. comment number 47 by: ponta

    Two cents.

    The reason why boar, deer, and horse meat are called botan (peony), momiji (autum maple), and sakura (cherry blossom) and rabbits are counted by 羽 (units for birds) is because they were consumed, but under the pretense that they were either non-animals or bird

    Wow,I didn’t know. (100へ~)
    Thanks for the imformation.
    Hmmm, Tomato and two cents love horse meat, maybe I should try.

  48. comment number 48 by: KidfromOhio

    Persoanlly, as a korean-american – I believe the gov/ should regulate the slaughter / raising the animals, what is the fundamental difference between cows and dogs…?? that dogs are man’s friend and cows were made to be burgers..??

    my secondary adoptive family raises cows – (it’s a bit complicated story – ) and they could recognize my grandfather like nothing – it’s scared of me – due to the fact that they’re not used to my presence – ( or should I talk about cows being racists…hummmmm. jk.)

    I personally have never tried dogs – and frankly I don’t wish to – I am into exotic food – but I guess as a dog owner – ( rather – ex – my dog died when I was at training – wasn’t too happy – )

    I will never try dog – but I don’t think the people who do are any less- from my view point – I did really feel bad eating burgers after some of the calfs were sold.

    animals are animals – and we are meant to eat them, and it’s healthy that way. Otherwise, we’ll all be vegans and grow up 5 foot 2 at most…that baby Jesus and his holy manger that I’m not one.

  49. comment number 49 by: kojibomb

    I found some videos on how these animals: dogs cats dolphines are killed in asian countries.

    Dolphin meat : http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjqZi46P8Gs&mode=user&search=

    dog and cat meat: http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=user&v=vfHnGc1WeQs

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=oBlKZJIqqTA

    bears: http://youtube.com/watch?v=u1NeyDidmrU

  50. comment number 50 by: kojibomb

    only in asia…

    whales: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yao1J1-WLg

    primates big cats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-veGfheyxY4

    but… other animals too in all around the world…

    this one from the biggest animal farm in US I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2stEwDswIXE

    Australia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qijOTPtklTc

    If World’s most richest countries are like this… what about other countrieS???

    .. but… we need meet so….. ??