Occidentalism
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Korean Church Members in Sydney Beat Girl

August 27th, 2005 . by Matt

3 Korean church members in Sydney have been sentenced for beating up a Korean girl (a foreign student) for not attending church regularly. This church is located just 20 minutes drive from my apartment.

A PASTOR and two Bible studies teachers bashed a 19-year-old Korean woman because they thought she had been disrespectful to her parents and had stopped attending church.

Chi Yeong Yun, a junior pastor at the Open Door Presbyterian Church in Chatswood, and Bible study teachers James Kang and Tom Chae-Young Lee pleaded guilty yesterday to assaulting Angela Kim at a park at Sydney’s Bobbin Head in July last year.

The NSW District Court heard the men believed the young woman had stopped going to church, had been disrespectful to her elders and had been spending too much time on her web page.

Kang, who the court heard stood 180cm tall and weighed more than 130kg, had telephoned Ms Kim at the request of Yun and arranged to meet her at Waitara railway station in northern Sydney.

Kang and his friend Lee picked her up about 9pm and drove her to the Bobbin Head park where they and Yun beat her and kicked her over a two-hour period.

She suffered extensive bruising to her head, arms, buttocks and legs.

Sounds like a pretty serious beating to me. It goes on –

Kang said he had taken the girl to the park with the intention of discussing her “problems” with the pastor, Yun.

He said it had been his intention to help the girl but the situation “just got out of hand”.

In the days after he bashed Ms Kim, Kang went to her house and destroyed her portable CD player.

“I broke the CD player because I was angry that Angela, she didn’t keep her promise,” he said.

“She had promised us and herself that she would behave good … and close down her web page that she was spending a lot of time on.”

If some religious types tried to make me close down occidentalism.org, I would…

All three men said they now realised what they had done was wrong and against the law.

“For a person like me, 180cm, 130kg, it’s just not hard hitting a girl. Hitting a girl, it just isn’t right,” Kang said.

180cm and 130kg? I am 178cm and 75kg. It seems that this ‘bible studies teacher’ missed the part in the bible that warns against gluttony.

He said he had heard through the Open Door Church that Ms Kim had “showed disrespect to her parents, and did some trouble”.

“She had no idea of respect, she was just hanging around with her friends,” Lee said.

In the meantime, an article in the Korean Naver News attempted to justify the attack, saying that the ‘church members were treating her like a family member’, and that ‘the harsh Australian justice system does not take into account Korean sentiments or culture’. Interestingly, according to the Korean article, the parents of the victim picked up the legal bill for the church members. I think the best answer to that nonsense was in the judgement of the presiding judge.

Acting Judge Gibson today sentenced the men from Chatswood’s Korean Open Door Presbyterian Church to prison terms of up to one year, saying protecting their culture was not an excuse to break the law.

He told the men their steps to stop their culture being eroded could not be taken against women, who could not be coerced or beaten to comply.

I would add that if the ‘harsh Australian justice system’ is too much for them, there is always a place they can return to where such behavior is still acceptable.

The fact is that this girl probably did nothing to deserve this kind of beating (as if there could be any justification). We dont really know what brought about the beating except that she wasnt attending church ‘regularly’, spent too much time on her webpage, and hanging around with her friends. I think it is also cogent to point out that often for Korean christians in Sydney, ‘regular church going’ is not just attending church on Sunday, but can be as much as 4 times a week.

Kushibo, commenting on The Marmots Hole hit the nail right on the head when he responded to another poster trying to justify the church members actions –

And how do we know she was doing something as severe as what you say? I know Korean or kyopo parents who have freaked out because their daughter or son was dating a non-Korean, was not getting straight A’s, or was thinking of taking a year off after high school. Some of them wanted to resort to force or near-kidnapping. What was this conservative mother’s threshold?

With this I strongly agree and it also matches my personal experience. In the past I had a Korean girlfriend that attended Korean church services in Sydney, and they also would have freaked out if they knew that we were dating. A great many of the church members and clergy also seemed to think that the church was a dating agency between local, naturalised Koreans, and foreign students, considering the number of church members and clergy that were pushing hard to get a date with her (she was hot!). Fortunately, as soon as she moved out of her uncles place, she stopped attending that church.

Another Korean church in Sydney had interesting teachings against miscegenation.

Koreans in Korea are always telling foreigners ‘when in Rome, do as the Romans do’, but why is it that Koreans in foreign countries never feel this saying applies to them?


48 Responses to “Korean Church Members in Sydney Beat Girl”

  1. comment number 1 by: Katz

    Don’t get me wrong but why a site dedicated against Koreans? Are you Japanese or what?

  2. comment number 2 by: moonfish

    Is this site that is about Korea inconvenient?

  3. comment number 3 by: just about home

    Why Katz, because Koreans come to our cities and nations and behave like fools, and if we so much as desire to date “their” women the sh$i can hit the fan.

    The rednecks of asia, me thinks.

  4. comment number 4 by: Yu_Bum_suk

    This is the kind of Korean BS that should get paraded all over the world news. I like to send articles like this to all my friends. Shame and embarrassment is about the only think some Koreans understand besides violence, so why not use it to try to curb some of their outrageous behaviour?

  5. comment number 5 by: Yu_Bum_suk

    Let me add one more comment: have you seen a single comment anywhere from a Korean or Gyopo outrightly condemning this act? If Christians in Canada did this sort of thing Canadians would be calling for them to locked away for years.

  6. comment number 6 by: Matt

    This is the kind of Korean BS that should get paraded all over the world news. I like to send articles like this to all my friends. Shame and embarrassment is about the only think some Koreans understand besides violence, so why not use it to try to curb some of their outrageous behaviour?

    You are right. Being the target of ridicule is the only thing that really makes Koreans reflect on things. Introspection, and even more so empathy, seem to be traits that are totally lacking among Koreans. They dont seem to be able to understand what other people are thinking, which is why Koreans are shocked when the silly stuff they think is undermined by truth and logic. Its this kind of lack of empathy that causes Koreans that condemn the Japanese for the occasional civil rights abuses during the Japanese Administrative Period to call for the production of nuclear weapons to destroy Japan.

    Let me add one more comment: have you seen a single comment anywhere from a Korean or Gyopo outrightly condemning this act?

    Thats what I want to know. Why do Koreans instictively condemn the person bringing the bad news, rather than dealing with the bad news? Koreans especially dont like to discuss ‘negative’ things about Korea with foreigners, even if they discuss it among themselves. Therefore you hear things like ‘Korea has no homosexuals’, or when you tell Koreans about a bad experience with a taxi driver, the try to dismiss it as a ‘misunderstanding’ based on language difference even when there is no misunderstanding (A taxi driver from Kimpo airport wanted 50 000 won from me, rather than the 20 000 won fee according to the meter, because the place I wanted to go to was ‘so hard to find’ – he had to stop the cab on the curb and ask for directions ). When I tell that story to Koreans, they immediately call it a misunderstanding, and persist even at the risk of alienating me. Yet Koreans among themselves often badmouth taxi drivers and have bad experiences.

    If Christians in Canada did this sort of thing Canadians would be calling for them to locked away for years.

    Actually I forgot to mention that religions that dont permit members to leave of their own free will are rightly known as cults.

  7. comment number 7 by: dead

    Katz Said:

    August 27, 2005 at 10:07 pm

    Don’t get me wrong but why a site dedicated against Koreans?

    —————————————————

    I am not keeping count but Katz seems right. Matt seems to really want to focus on everything Anti-Korea or Pro-Japan. I just wonder why Matt doesnt like Korea so much. Could he explain?

    Occidentalism: The Anti-Korea Website

    dead

  8. comment number 8 by: YoshoMasaki

    To “Katz” and “dead”: I won’t try to speak for Matt, but I would like to write about what this site means to me and how you are, in my opinion, wrong about his motivations and the place of occidentalism.org in the spectrum of opinion on Korea.

    Apparently you guys missed the quote on the other recent update where a foreign resident of Korea for the past two years had the following to say:

    Travolta Said:
    August 26, 2005 at 10:39 am

    Holy shit. Thank god for people like you who are around to set the record straight.

    He went on to say that the above Occidentalism article has been a valuable resource for him in forming an opinion on the Korean news story which he had only heard presented from the point of view of the (in his enlightened description) blindingly one-sided Korean mass media.

    For my part, I don’t speak Korean. I don’t regularly interact with Koreans on a daily basis. I haven’t had a Korean girlfriend or best friend, and I don’t really know much about their culture/news except what I read in the U.S. news or see online. And what is available there (particularly online) is so intensely biased against America, Japan, and anyone or anything not Korean that I eventully had to take a step back and evaluate my information sources. Something seemed rotten.

    Since Matt opened this site, I’ve had “another opinion” in my back pocket. I haven’t been informed ONLY by the Korean mass media, and the many Koreans and non-Koreans who will stick up unfailingly for anything it reports (and they are legion!). That’s what I think best describes this site, as a single source of information among many in your/my toolbelt, to be used as best you see fit to complement and conflict your understood notions of Korean culture, people, nationalism and anything that goes on involving Koreans around the world. It only helps that his articles are often well-researched, well-reported, logically argued and supported by the facts. His Korean abilities make “their” side of the story accesible for me as well.

    But that still doesn’t mean you HAVE to believe him. What you must realize is that bias is not your enemy. The failure to admit human biases and the denial of its existance that is standard procedure in major news organizations is. Since you do not know which way the news is being spun, it is that much harder to make an informed opinion on what is being reported. The typical TV viewer’s empathy and poor media fact-checking is responsible for the existence of millions of misdirected and often manipulated lemmings around the world. Since you have taken your search to the internet, where the countless bloggers debate all sides of every issue, why would you be so closed-minded as to call Matt’s site irrelevant, “dead”? Is “the rest of the story” so unimportant to you, or worse yet so distasteful to you that you would rather not hear it? By declaring the opposing view unnecessary you would be willingly subjecting yourself to blinders.

    Thinking people don’t even trust the media of their own country to be right all of the time, or even close to it on some issues. Why is it that the Party Line coming out of China or Korea is so easy for so many foreigners to swallow? And why should any voice(s) crying against them be of any deficit to you? If you don’t want to read Matt’s opinion, you don’t have to come here anymore. But it is in no way irelevant.

    I will end with a quote from Evan Coyne Maloney, of Brain Terminal fame:

    One of the things you’ll notice first about [our] articles is that they contain strong opinions presented unapologetically. We don’t strive to be controversial for its own sake, but at the same time, we will not shy away from an argument that needs to be made.

    And, unlike the major media, we do not profess to be without political bias. Every article contains a definite bias, because every author looks at the world through his or her own eyes. To claim to be without bias borders on outright fraud, because the only purpose of such a claim is to trick the audience into unwittingly digesting opinions that are packaged as fact.

    We believe that consumers of news and opinion must be cognizant of the biases of the various media outlets they use. Regular readers … will become aware of the biases of the editor, and this is a good thing, because it will make them smarter consumers of the opinions presented here. We don’t hide our beliefs, we trumpet them.

    Although we won’t tell you what to think, we’ll be happy to give you plenty of suggestions!

    (emphasis mine)

  9. comment number 9 by: kage

    A girl rape case by clergyman Korean became a topic recently in Japan.

    http://www.nikkei.co.jp/kansai/news/28388.html

    http://osaka.nikkansports.com/otn/p-ot-tp6-050824-0022.html

  10. comment number 10 by: cha

    Many people are bored with Koreans’ ethnocentrism.
    I think that Mr. Matt is one of them.
    Korean’s criticism is too unilateral.
    They must criticize themselves Koreans
    for Anti-japanese or Anti-american.

  11. comment number 11 by: Nakashima

    Such harsh generalizations. I’ve come into contact with quite a few Korean-American communities, and all seemed to have be sociable and considerate. My best friend dated a Korean girl for a couple of years, and her family seemed completely accepting. The owner of this site has a tendency to take a single incident and generalize the entire race. In any case, I’m sure we won’t be hearing about the intentional defacing of the word “Korea” by Japanese tourists in Russia.

    Is “the rest of the story” so unimportant to you, or worse yet so distasteful to you that you would rather not hear it? By declaring the opposing view unnecessary you would be willingly subjecting yourself to blinders.

    I’m sure you’d like to believe that the entire “story” is always told on this site. In my eyes, the owner is no different from the Japanese right-wing (and increasingly mainstream) nationalists we hear so much about.

    I feel sorry for the poor girl. I hope those deserving are rightfully punished.

  12. comment number 12 by: Ell

    Nakashima,
    Regarding the ‘intentional defacing of the word “Korea” by Japanese tourists in Russia’, no “Japanese tourist” has been arrested for this crime as yet, so I think it too early to judge this to be the crime of Japanese for sure (I mean, there is only one witness. I do hope that he can speak Japanese, if he has made the decision that the tourist in question was Japanese!)

    To be honest, most Japanese probably do not know of this memorial.
    There is a big question as to why anyone would visit this memorial and even go to the trouble of defacing. There is not the level of anger towards the Koreans yet in Japan (unfortunately) than those that exists in Korea towards the Japanese.

    So, if it was a Japanese tourist, I can tell you they are not the majority of
    Japanese, but a very minority.

    Considering that fact that Korea has voiced support for personal suing of the Japanese government even after the 1965 Japan-Korea Agreement (which describes compensation as fully paid and that Korea relinquishes further pursuement of suing) has been disclosed, one would speculate alot about these events.

    And I do hope the 3090 peoples disclosed by the Korean organization as “Pro-Japanese” on 8/29 will be safe from harassment from their fellow country men.

  13. comment number 13 by: Matt

    In any case, I’m sure we won’t be hearing about the intentional defacing of the word “Korea” by Japanese tourists in Russia.

    Japanese tourists that can read cyrillic script? Then the money line using a stereotypical Russian name –

    A local resident by the name of Vladimir testifies, “Recently, Japanese people who visited Kraskino took a chisel to the four places on the memorial where it said ‘Korea.’”

    I think the perpertrator of the vandalism is probably the Korean guy in the photo for the following reasons.

    1. I dont see Japanese tourists visiting Korean memorials in Russia.
    2. I dont see Japanese tourists being able to read cyrillic script.
    3. Mysterious ‘Vladimir’ with stereotypical Russian name that apparently saw the vandalism and did nothing.
    4. Picture of Korean man at the scene of the Korean nationalist memorial of an anti Japanese Korean hero that is clearly placed at the scene of the vandalism, and had a strong motive to do it.

    A little critical thinking goes a long way.

  14. comment number 14 by: ponta

    To katz
    To be exact, i think this site often focuses the strange, hard-to-understand aspects of korea.
    There is a site which dedicated to accuse the bad aspects of Japan by American Japanese:for instance,he accuses that there is a descrimination in Japan and it should be changed.
    I agree with him on it. That’s all.
    If do not agree with him, I’ll tell him reasons why.That’s all.
    I don’t think just because the site depict evil aspect of a nation, it is a site besed on racism.
    I’m expecting Korean people’s rational reactions to the challenge Matts presents.If you win the argument based on objective evidences. you win.In that case, people’ll know this site is full of fabrication.

    To Nakashima
    Japanese or Korean or Russian, whoever did that, he is to be blamed.
    Whether or not he is Japanese, I have similar doubts with ELL and Matts.

    On top of that, when nobody know for sure whether he is Japanese or not,this article, this Korean newspaper says not that Asian did this but that Japanese did this.
    Doesn’t this tell you something which Matts has been trying to prove?

    .

  15. comment number 15 by: YoshoMasaki

    I’m sure you’d like to believe that the entire “story” is always told on this site.

    I never said this. What is here is “the rest of the story” in that you don’t often hear things from this angle in the media. What is here is Matt’s side of the story, and there may be 100 other bloggers writing about Korea who further differ from him. Being a wise consumer of the opinions presented in various places can only help you in forming your own opinion.

    I just wanted to make the point to those who blow their tops when they see this site: News is a market of facts and opinions. As a consumer of news you are responsible for the final value judgement and fact-checking. Lamenting that any view, no matter how distasteful to you personally, is expressed in the marketplace of ideas is putting blinders on. It is saying “I don’t have the capacity to make a value judgement on this (or I fear others don’t) because it is threatening to my view. I am terified of challenges to my view, so the other guy’s side must not be heard!”

  16. comment number 16 by: YoshoMasaki

    Such harsh generalizations. I’ve come into contact with quite a few Korean-American communities, and all seemed to have be sociable and considerate. My best friend dated a Korean girl for a couple of years, and her family seemed completely accepting. The owner of this site has a tendency to take a single incident and generalize the entire race.

    I just noticed this, but immediately after condemning Matt for making negative generalizations, you make some hefty generalizations of your own! Is it okay to “generalize the entire race” based on a “single incident”, if only they are positive? Nice logic.

  17. comment number 17 by: nou

    I think the perpertrator of the vandalism is probably the Korean guy in the photo for the following reasons.

    1. I dont see Japanese tourists visiting Korean memorials in Russia.
    2. I dont see Japanese tourists being able to read cyrillic script.

    1. are you a human surveillance machine? are you capable of watching every single japanese?
    2. there must be someone who speaks russian in japan and that person can happen to be a toursit at some time of his life.

    no one knows who defaced that thing. but do you think your reasoning makes any sense?

  18. comment number 18 by: ponta

    To nou
    You said,

    “[N]o one knows who defaced that thing”

    But at the same time,you reasoned

    ” there must be someone who speaks russian in japan and that person can happen to be a toursit at some time of his life”

    So I want to raise the same question,

    “[A]re you a human surveillance machine? are you capable of watching every single japanese?”

    And I want to ask,

    ” [D]o you think your reasoning makes any sense?

    No hard feeling.

  19. comment number 19 by: nou

    can happen to be there
    = there is possiblity of being there

    it doesn’t mean he will necessarily be there.

  20. comment number 20 by: ponta

    To nou
    Matts said,
    “I think the perpertrator of the vandalism is probably the Korean guy in the photo for the following reasons”

    “I think” “probably”=”there is possility.”

    “it doesn’t mean he will necessarily be there.”

  21. comment number 21 by: nou

    are you playing a word game with me? that’s cute!

    i didn’t challenge that particular sentence you said. i was saying his reasoning process, particularly number 1 and 2 don’t make sense.

    could you explain to me why they make sense instead of playing games for a moment? i ask you this because you seem to be his spokeperson.

  22. comment number 22 by: ponta

    To nou,
    Firstly, when Matts said”probably”, he is not saying he is in fact a Korean just as you didn’t say he is a Japanese.

    Socondly,regardless of the fact that Matts said”probably”, you talked as if Matts concluded that he is in fact a Korean.

    Thirdly, supposing you didn’t ignored the word “probably”,
    if your reasoning from your premises to the concusion that a Japanese might have done it is valid,
    then Matts reasoning from his premises to the concusion that a Korean might have done it is valid as well.
    (You premises are the guy in the photo said so, and there is Japanese who understand russian blablabla. Matts’ premises are few Japanese understand Russian bulabulabula)

    Both are inference from the premisises.: The difference is how you evaluate the probablity of the premises.

    And,

    If Matts reasoning is not valid, as you claim, then your reasoning is not valid either.

    This is not word game, rather this is a matter of logic.I don’t mean to offend you,Correct me if I I am wrong.

  23. comment number 23 by: ponta

    And a premise is not a reasoning, a premisie from a proposion is reasoning.
    When Matts presented premises 1 and 2, he is not reasoning, he is presenting the facts that very few Japanese tourists visits Korean memorials in Russia. and very few Japanese tourists are able to read cyrillic script,
    From what I know , these fpremises are grounded facts and perfectly make sense.
    If you happen to be claiming that these are contrary to facts. you have to show counter evidences.
    And even if these are false, they make sense. just as the false proposion that the earth is flat make sense.

  24. comment number 24 by: nou

    Firstly,

    (you said)
    he is not saying he is in fact a Korean just as you didn’t say he is a Japanese.
    = (Me said) no one knows who defaced that thing.

    you are repeating what i said in the first place. why?

    secondly
    (you said) you talked as if Matts concluded that he is in fact a Korean.

    i didn’t conclude he was saying that. i was saying those two sentences didn’t make sense. i didn’t make any judgement on his conclusion.

    thirdly,

    (you said)
    Matts’ premises are few Japanese understand Russian bulabulabula

    no,
    (Matt said)
    2. I dont see Japanese tourists being able to read cyrillic script.

    which is translated “NO japanese tourist can read cyrillic script.”

    if he had said like “i don’t see many japanese tourists being able to read c.s.” then you are right but he didn’t say so

    And
    (you said)
    If Matts reasoning is not valid, as you claim, then your reasoning is not valid either.
    => i don’t think so. it’s not the both sides of coin.

    ((it’s very hard to type and paste all these…!))

  25. comment number 25 by: nou

    If you happen to be claiming that these are contrary to facts. you have to show counter evidences.
    > then why don’t you show me yours first, huh? you just said what he said was right without any evidence.

    And even if these are false, they make sense. just as the false proposion that the earth is flat make sense.
    > i was not preparing logique game like this. i wanted to show his two sentences are wrong.

  26. comment number 26 by: ponta

    Now I understand what you wanted to say.
    Sorry for taking you wrong.

    Usually you don’t have to show evidences to the common sense, beliefs which most people agree.
    And most Japanese agree on the premises Matts presented if interpreted my way..
    And the reason for my interpretation is this.
    The sentence that “I don’t see Japanese visiting the park, but it seems Yamada, who is Japanese, visited the park anyway for some reason” make sense.(I’m not sure , I’m not a native speaker of English), it follows that ” I don’t see Japanese visiting the park” does not necesarrily imply that no Japanese visit the park

    Anyway, i understand what you said now, and I think this should be how Japanese and Korean can understand each other. Calling names get us nowhere.
    .

  27. comment number 27 by: ponta

    To nou
    BTW, I fogot to say
    Thanks for taking time to answer my argument.
    I appreciate it.

  28. comment number 28 by: nou

    arigato gojaimashida (i’m not so sure)
    you must have put a lot of time, too.

  29. comment number 29 by: Matt

    What I mean by ‘I dont see Japanese tourists being able to read cyrillic script’ is that hardly any Japanese can read Cyrillic. In fact, I have never met one that could in my life.

    And when I wrote ‘I dont see Japanese tourists visiting Korean memorials in Russia’, I mean that very few Japanese would care to go to an anti Japanese Korean memorial, and in anycase most Japanese travel is on a package tour, and I cant believe that a trip to the anti Japanese memorial would be on the agenda.

    These are just basic facts. The Korean article gives no evidence that any Japanese was there, except for the testimony of this mysterious ‘Vladimir’. Who was the person that told the newspaper about ‘Vladimir’? Probably the Korean man in the picture.

    The only person that we can 100% positively identify as being at the scene of the crime is the Korean man in the photo. Being at an anti Japanese Korean memorial, it is safe to say he is an anti Japanese Korean, which means he has a motive.

    In anycase, Nakashima used the article to say that Japanese tourists defaced a Korean memorial, which is a far more unlikely assertion than the more probable one I made.

  30. comment number 30 by: Eterna

    There’s also the same topic article at Chosun Ilbo Japanese version (http://japanese.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2005/08/28/20050828000014.html), and I found some discrepancies between English and Japanese version.
    At Japanese version, Mr. Vladimir the witness only testified, “This (=the defaced memorial) is as it is for two years.” and mentioned NOTHING about English version’s “Recently, Japanese people who visited Kraskino took a chisel to the four places on the memorial where it said ‘Korea’.” That’s weird. If the Chosun Ilbo judges Mr. Vladimir’s tale is trustworthy and the defacing is done by Japanese, shouldn’t it post the article with the same testification at Japanese version, too? Can “two years (ago)” be traslated into “Recently”? Why doesn’t the founder of the monument, Korea Restoration Society and the Koryo Academic and Cultural Foundation, protest against Japanese government?

  31. comment number 31 by: Matt

    There’s also the same topic article at Chosun Ilbo Japanese version (http://japanese.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2005/08/28/20050828000014.html), and I found some discrepancies between English and Japanese version.
    At Japanese version, Mr. Vladimir the witness only testified, “This (=the defaced memorial) is as it is for two years.” and mentioned NOTHING about English version’s “Recently, Japanese people who visited Kraskino took a chisel to the four places on the memorial where it said ‘Korea’.” That’s weird. If the Chosun Ilbo judges Mr. Vladimir’s tale is trustworthy and the defacing is done by Japanese, shouldn’t it post the article with the same testification at Japanese version, too? Can “two years (ago)” be traslated into “Recently”? Why doesn’t the founder of the monument, Korea Restoration Society and the Koryo Academic and Cultural Foundation, protest against Japanese government?

    Great find, Eterna!

  32. comment number 32 by: Eterna

    Matt,

    I’m glad that you find it interesting.

    A poster “baiding” just posted his discovery at ENJOY Korea news BBS that only English version adopted Mr. V’s “Japanese people took a chisel…” comment. The rest, Chinese and Korean version, have almost the same contents as Japanese.

    Source:

    Chinese Chosun Ilbo
    -> http://chinese.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2005/08/26/20050826000012.html

    Korean Chosun Ilbo
    -> http://www.chosun.com/national/news/200508/200508260355.html

  33. comment number 33 by: Matt

    A poster “baiding” just posted his discovery at ENJOY Korea news BBS that only English version adopted Mr. V’s “Japanese people took a chisel…” comment. The rest, Chinese and Korean version, have almost the same contents as Japanese.

    Do you have a direct link to the post at enjoy Korea?

  34. comment number 34 by: Eterna

    Sure. Here it is.

    http://bbs.enjoykorea.jp/jaction/read.php?id=enjoyjapan_16&nid=1619326&work=list&st=&sw=&cp=1

  35. comment number 35 by: nou

    1. some maniac church memers pose problems in Korea. they try to convert people in offensive ways and run churches to earn money. they create anti-christianism sentiment among non-believers. some of them just do not know the true teaching of Jesus Christ.

    2.
    “180cm and 130kg? I am 178cm and 75kg. It seems that this ‘bible studies teacher’ missed the part in the bible that warns against gluttony.”

    this is another segment that can offend people. the weight of the person is irrelavant with this article. such sentence cannot help being viewed as a sole attack on this person regardless of his wrongdoings. in addition, mentioning gluttony as sin is not appropriate. is a true preacher slender today? such thought may be another christian fanatism which was shown in a movie like “Seven” and in this very article.

    what strikes me more is the revelation of the body size of the poster. it is completely irrelavant with the whole thing. yes, you are fit, so way ouf ot sin. but what will feel obessed people who will read this? it’s just self-assurance or boasting.

    it’s hard to understand Matt tries to contextualise in many occasions. he compares himself to the person in a newspaper article. he wants to know the idenity of the commentators. For example, he presumes that i’m korean and living in *****. and he talks to me based in that context . the result is uttering something like “you are korean. so you can’t understand irony of english”.

    it’s pretty interesting that someone who points out all the abnormality of koreans use a typical korean tactic. many koreans should know the person whom they speak before starting conversation. how old are you, where are you from etc etc, which is consuming and meaningless.

    i point out all these because this site is saying that all the things posted here are based on logic, not on attack or propaganda. i cannot neglect propagandists or attackers who pretend to be logical.

  36. comment number 36 by: CaptPorridge

    Thanks for the extra info on this case Matt,
    Crazy Korean Churches and Cults… Oh man I love this stuff!

    I might have to join this “Church” this Xmas,

    For anyone interested about learning about a Korean Church whose sole purpose is raping, check out my site:
    http://falsemessiah.proboards23.com

    They’re in Sydney too, I’ll definately be checking those assholes out this Summer, You’re weclome to come along Matt!

  37. comment number 37 by: Matt

    what strikes me more is the revelation of the body size of the poster. it is completely irrelavant with the whole thing. yes, you are fit, so way ouf ot sin.

    Actually, I am neither thin nor fit, which was why I was struck at the weight of the churchman with around the same height as me. It is relevant because he and I are around the same height (2cm difference), and I am the average weight for a male in Australia (75kg). It gives people an easy reference for comparison.

    it’s just self-assurance or boasting.

    That is projection. Koreans do it all the time

    the weight of the person is irrelavant with this article. such sentence cannot help being viewed as a sole attack on this person regardless of his wrongdoings. in addition, mentioning gluttony as sin is not appropriate.

    Gluttony is a sin. I only mentioned it because it is a tenet of his professed faith (and therefore relevant to the issue). It is obvious that these churchmen not only commit acts of violence that should be forbidden to them (turn the other cheek), but also do not keep other tenets of the religion, for example, comitting gluttony. And to be honest, I dont care if fat people are offended. Fat people know they are fat, and know its unhealthy. If fat people are offended that people can see they are fat, and are offended that people are able to correctly identify the reason for it (which is over eating and not enough exercise), then that is too bad for them. I dont believe in ‘fat rights’ or ‘fat acceptance‘. If fat people take up two seats on the plane, then they should pay the price for two seats.

    i cannot neglect propagandists or attackers who pretend to be logical.

    As long as you keep it about the posts (on topic). Point out the lack of logic by finding faults with my post. This isnt the place for you wage a Jihad on what you percieve to be my personal faults.

    it’s hard to understand Matt tries to contextualise in many occasions. he compares himself to the person in a newspaper article. he wants to know the idenity of the commentators. For example, he presumes that i’m korean and living in *****. and he talks to me based in that context . the result is uttering something like “you are korean. so you can’t understand irony of english”.

    I knew you were Korean on your first post, you make it so obvious. You couldnt hide it if you tried. The only reason I found out you are from ***** was because I needed to examine your IP address address because you were in danger of becoming a spammer. I dont need to know who people are and I dont care what their motivations are, I only care about the quality of their argument (something I have said many, many times, because people like ‘Katz’ try to dismiss my argument based on the irrelevant fallacy that I am ‘anti Korean’). As for irony, are you so sure you understand it? You showed me on a number of occasions that you dont understand irony, the last time here. And your reply shows that you took it seriously and didnt understand the intended irony. Thats nothing to be ashamed of – even Korean that have lived overseas many, many years (or even born overseas) do not understand irony. In fact, one of my American friends that has lived in Korea for many years and is totally fluent in Korean said that I was wrong about Koreans not being able to understand English irony. He said “Koreans do not understand irony in any language”. It was not you being Korean that made me think you couldnt understand irony, but rather the fact that you cannot understand irony that confirmed for me that you are Korean.

    Anyway, take it easy and stop trying to point out that some minority groups will be offended by this or that. Anyone that take any position on anything at all can offend someone that thinks differently. If you disagree, disagree but stay on topic. Dont keep posting about the same thing, or keep writing the same thing but in a different way because it will be thought to be spam. Its just blog etiquette.

  38. comment number 38 by: nou

    thank you for your reply. it was an interesting read.

    Point out the lack of logic by finding faults with my post.

    mentioning the weight of the culprit reduces greatly the credibility of your post. that’s why i posted it mentioning its offensive nature, too.

    it’s puzzling why you are advocating vigorously the sentence ‘koreans don’t understand irony’. i didn’t make any judgement on that sentence. maybe you are right. i didn’t ask you either why you think i’m korean. i just pointed out you are saying something based on context of the speaker. i was not interested in the process in which you concluded that i am something. i think you are the one who makes off-topic comments here.

    ps. if you and your friend are agreed on something, does it necessarily mean the truth? there seems no supporting evidence linked on some sites.(i followed your way of proving something.)

  39. comment number 39 by: Ell

    What is it with Korean Christian churches?
    What kind of criteria do they have for selecting the pastors?
    I hope some of them are legitimate, but there was a similar case of
    the pastor raping his believers in Japan, a very recent incident.

    The victims were all young girls, teenagers.
    I don’t know if they were Japanese or Japan-resident Koerans, but
    they were told that “it” was blessing and that resisting would
    mean they would burn in hell.

    It made us all sick, but fortunately he was arrested and is now
    pleading guilty to most counts. What’s so absurd about this
    guy is that he claims it was not really rape since the girls got
    undressed themselves.
    Telling them they would burn in hell otherwise does not count
    as forcing, eh? We shall see.

  40. comment number 40 by: Matt

    i think you are the one who makes off-topic comments here.

    This is why I said this is not the place for your personal Jihad.

    ps. if you and your friend are agreed on something, does it necessarily mean the truth? there seems no supporting evidence linked on some sites.(i followed your way of proving something.)

    Decide that for yourself. I am not telling you what to think, only giving my anecdotal evidence, which I have built up over many years. Another person agreed with me, which makes me think that I am not alone in my thinking.

    In short, take want you want from the site and leave the rest. If you think that Koreans are just as capable of understanding irony as the people in the west, then just state it. Other people will decide whether your statement seems valid to them or not. If foreigners are surrounded by Koreans that do understand irony, then they will see my opinion as foolish and incorrect. On the otherhand if their experiences match mine, they will agree. In both cases, no proof is necessary for an opinion. Specific things, like ‘did such and such event really happen?’ etc, require proof.

    Anyway, take it easy. Seriously.

  41. comment number 41 by: nou

    i just read that korean naver news. it is biased listening to only one side of the incident. another wackiness of korean media. fortunately the majority of korean commentators were pointing out the one-sideness. one commentator of the article said:

    호주의 법을 잘모르지만 로마에 가면 로마법을 따라야 한다고 하지 않았던가.
    (i am not knowledgeable on the autralian law but one didn’t say ‘when in rome, do as the romans’?)

    ,which echoes the last sentence of this post. i hope the internet comment system can help solving the problems of korean media.

  42. comment number 42 by: YoshoMasaki

    nou: People don’t have a “right” to be offended about shit. If some fat fuck has a problem with being called a fat fuck he can ignore my comments, or better yet lose some fucking weight. That you believe he has the right to censor speech which “makes” him feel bad makes you either Korean or an American liberal. Your english is shit, and I think more of my friends across the aisle than that so you must be Korean.

    It is the fault of the thin-skinned if they are offended about such things.

  43. comment number 43 by: Errol

    2.
    “180cm and 130kg? I am 178cm and 75kg. It seems that this ‘bible studies teacher’ missed the part in the bible that warns against gluttony.”

    That’s irony.

    this is another segment that can offend people. the weight of the person is irrelavant (sic) with this article.

    That’s wrong. His weight is relevant. It shows a disproportionate use of force on a smaller and weaker person.

    The most important lesson from this story is that “bullying is not tolerated in Australia.”

  44. comment number 44 by: CaptPorridge

    This weight issue is a little off topic. surely the only issue here is:
    “Do you agree that “Christian” ministers have the right to beat up girls?”

    If you agree, you are an asshole and if you call yourself a Christian, an absolute hypocrite.

  45. comment number 45 by: CaptPorridge

    Above post was made while drunk… sorry Hachi!
    Yeah I can see now the weight issue isn’t so off topic after all

  46. comment number 46 by: Errol

    CaptPorridge said

    “Do you agree that “Christian” ministers have the right to beat up girls?”

    In Australia no, however, in Korea I can see the defence case as follows:

    Defence barrister; “This is the lesser of two evils or rather (said pompously) the lesser of two bashings.

    A Korean girl fails at school what are her options?

    Play cyworld and meet 30 year old Tuscani owners (AKA 원조교제차) online for fun, ending up on the game and a LIFETIME of bashings.

    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200508/10/200508102218133409900090409041.html

    A bashing in time saves nine.

    The defence rests your honour.”

    Judge: “Case dismissed”

    Gallery 백수: 저 여자번호를 잡아요. 우리 두목은 새영계들 필요합니다.”


  47. […] Here is an update on of an older post, ‘Korean Church Members in Sydney Beat Girl‘. NineMSN reports – Two Sydney church leaders who beat a teenage parishioner to persuade her to “mend her ways” have lost appeals against the severity of their jail terms. […]

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