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Lies, Half-truths, & Dokdo Video, Maps 10

April 25th, 2007 . by Gerry-Bevers

The following is an 1874 Japanese map of Joseon Korea called, “Detailed Map of the Country of Joseon” (朝鮮國細見全図).

The map shows Usando (于山島) as a small island to the south of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島). At the time, Korean maps were showing Usando as Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, which is 2.2 kilometers off Ulleungdo’s east shore, so that means that this map did not reflect the Korean preception of Ulleungdo at the time. In other words, the Japanese had an outdated map of Ulleungdo in 1874.

 

The following is text that was written at the bottom of the map and explained certain aspects of it.

 

One aspect the text explained was the island of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島). Here is a cutout of the section describing Ulleungdo.

 

The above text reads as follows:

鬱陵島ハ一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島ト云江原道ノ屬島ニシテ三涉ノ地ヨリ水路一千里島ノ周廻九百四五十里ト云  

Ulleungdo (鬱陵島), also known as Isotakeshima (弓嵩島 – イソダケ島), is part of Gangwon Province. It is located in the sea 1,000 ri from Samcheok (三陟). It has a circumference of 940 to 950 ri.

Notice that Usando (于山島) was not mentioned in the description of Ulleungdo, which suggests that it was just a small, neighboring island. Notice also that the circumference of Ulleungdo was described as being much bigger than it actually is; however, Hanmaumy has suggested here that the 九 in 周廻九百四五十里, was actually , which is another way of writing 凡. The character  means “approximately,” which means the text was actually saying the following:

鬱陵島ハ一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島ト云江原道ノ屬島ニシテ三涉ノ地ヨリ水路一千里島ノ周廻百四五十里ト云  

Ulleungdo (鬱陵島), also known as Isotakeshima (弓嵩島 – イソダケ島), is part of Gangwon Province. It is located in the sea 1,000 ri from Samcheok (三陟), and has a circumference of approximately 140 to 150 ri.

The above translation makes much more sense since the circumference of Ulleungdo was approximately 140 to 150 ri. At any rate, the above map is evidence that, in 1874, Japan knew that Usando was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, but still did not know the exact location.

 At any rate, the above map is evidence that, in 1874, Japan knew that Usando was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, but still did not know the exact location.

Japanese Translation Provided by Kaneganese

(Gerryの投稿の日本語訳です。)

(Gerryの投稿の日本語訳です。)下の図は1874年に日本で作成された朝鮮時代の韓国地図で、朝鮮國細見全図といいます。

(Gerryの投稿の日本語訳です。)下の図は1874年に日本で作成された朝鮮時代の韓国地図で、朝鮮國細見全図といいます。地図1:朝鮮國細見全図(1874)

(Gerryの投稿の日本語訳です。)下の図は1874年に日本で作成された朝鮮時代の韓国地図で、朝鮮國細見全図といいます。地図1:朝鮮國細見全図(1874)于山島は、鬱陵島の南の小さな島として地図に描かれています。この時期、韓国の地図は于山島を鬱陵島の2.2km東にある隣接島の竹嶼として描いています。つまり、この地図は当時の韓国側の(于山島は鬱陵島の東にあると言う)認識を反映していない訳です。言い換えれば、日本人が持っていた1874年の鬱陵島の地図は、古い物であったと言うことでしょう。

地図2:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 鬱陵島拡大図

次の図は地図の下部に書かれた文章で、地域の様相を説明しているようです。

図1:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 注釈

鬱陵島の様子が説明された一文があります。次に示すのが、鬱陵島の説明をしている部分の切抜きです。

図2:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 鬱陵島説明文

次のように記述されています。

“鬱陵島は一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島と云う 江原道の属島にして三渉 (三陟)の地より水路一千里 島の周廻九百四、五十里と云う”

于山島が鬱陵島の説明書きの中に描かれていないことにお気づきでしょうか。つまり、その島が小さな隣接島に過ぎない事を示唆しています。鬱陵島の周囲が実際のものよりかなり大きく記載れていることも分かります、が、Hammauyさんは”周廻九百四五十里”の”九”は実は”凢”という”凡”の別字であると推測しています。”凢”は、”約”という意味なので、この説明文は次のような意味になります。

“鬱陵島は一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島と云う 江原道の属島にして三渉 (三陟)の地より水路一千里 島の周廻は凡そ百四、五十里と云う”

鬱陵島の周囲は約140~150kmなので、この訳のほうがより実情に即しています。

いずれにせよこの地図は、1874年に日本側が于山島が鬱陵島の隣接島であることは分かっていても、正確な位置が分かっていなかったという事実を証明しているのです

Links to More Posts on Takeshima/Dokdo (With Japanese translations)

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 1

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 2

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 3

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 4

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 4 Supplement

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 5

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 6

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 7

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 8

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 9

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 10

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Part 11

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 1

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 2

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 2 Supplement

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 3

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 4

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 5

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 6

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 7

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 8

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 9

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 10

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 11

Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 12


50 Responses to “Lies, Half-truths, & Dokdo Video, Maps 10”

  1. comment number 1 by: madboots

    UTSURYO-TO Island(鬱陵島), otherwise known as ISOMOYA-TO Island(弓嵩島), is an island attached to KOGENDO(江原道). It is located 1000 ri(千里) away across the sea from SANSYO(三渉) and its perimeter is 945 ri(945里).

    note:
    I am not sure if “ISOMOYA-TO” is correct because the third character of Kana letters written between lines is blurred.
    Captitalized words show that they are read in Japanese.

  2. comment number 2 by: ponta

    I am not sure if “ISOMOYA-TO” is correct

    It is probably Isotakeshima

  3. comment number 3 by: pacifist

    I think 九百四五十里 should be 940~950 ri, not 945 ri.

  4. comment number 4 by: madboots

    ponta, pacifist
    Thank you.

  5. comment number 5 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Thanks Madboots, Ponta, & Pacifist.

    I am curious about the name 弓嵩島, which also appears on this 1806 Japanese map of Korea. Is it possible that 弓嵩島 could have been another way to write Usando (于山島), which literally means “high mountain island”?

  6. comment number 6 by: GTOMR

    It seems to be “Iso-Dake or Iso-take”
    The Map 朝鮮八道之図 by 林子平
    He wrote “弓嵩 イソダケ”on a mountain in Ullungdo.
    (Maps from Mr.Tanaka)

  7. comment number 7 by: Gerry-Bevers

    GTOMR,

    Yes, I used to assume that the “Takeshima” in Isotakeshima was referring to “Bamboo Island,” but the Chinese character, 嵩, suggest that it was referring to the “tall mountain” (嵩 = tall mountain) on Ulleungdo. That is why I am wondering if the name “Isotakeshima” might have evolved from “Usando” (于山島), which also means “Tall Mountain Island”?

  8. comment number 8 by: yama

    A South Korean newspaper says

    “Even Japanese Organizations Support the Resolution”

    On April 24, two days before Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s visit
    to Washington D.C., Chicago-based JPCL announced a statement that
    strongly supports a comfort women resolution. JPCL is a national civic
    group in America, whose aim is empowerment of Japanese Americans.
    JPCL is the first Japanese group in America that publicly supports such a resolution.
    The Japanese group called on the Prime Minister to offer an official apology
    and on the Japanese government to correct its historic texts.
    Japan Society is scheduled to hold a seminar regarding comfort women
    resolution early next month.
    http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2007042665708

    Really? What is JPCL?
    I can’t believe this. Can someone confirm about this news?

  9. comment number 9 by: toadface

    Gerry again what you have is a Japanese copy of a Korean map. It’s a huge error of yours to automatically assume the territorial perceptions of “the Japanese” on maps made by other countries.

    Japanese cartographers copied maps from all countries. At this time in the 19th Century Japanese mappers were citing maps from all around the world. So to take one map from historical archives and say “the Japanese thought…” is not a very logical approach to history.

    The Japanese mappers had confused perception of this region as whole. However for the most part their belief was that two islands existed in the East Sea. The Japanese were placing Dokdo (Matsushima) and Ulleungdo (Takeshima) all over the East Sea during this time. The position of the islands was usually wrong and the form was almost never correct.

    What happened to the Japanese in 1840 gives us insight as to how foreign maps affected Japanese maps. The first Europeans mapped Ulleungdo too far West and named it Argonaut later it was mapped correctly and named Dagelet. This created two “Ulleungdo’s” in the East Sea, the Westerly island was non-existent (Argonaut) and the Eastern (Dagelet) was correctly located.
    See this European map.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Marzollabendetto1847.jpg
    Later Seibold applied the Japanese names to the false Argonaut (ficticious) and Dagelet (real Ulleungdo)
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/seilbold1840.jpg
    From there Japanese mapmakers copied the European maps and blindly drew “two islands” Ulleungdo and Dokdo more Westerly. Note the position and shape of this Japanese map is exactly the same as the European map above.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/uchidacomparemap1872.jpg

    When Seibold assigned the name Takeshima to the non-existent “Argonaut” and Matsushima to Dagelet the Japanese began to perceive Ulleungdo and Dokdo much farther West.

  10. comment number 10 by: ponta

    嵩 bulk/quantity/high place/
    弓 an arc/a bow/archery

    It is possible that 弓嵩 means a mound like an arch.

    madboots Good job!!

    yama
    I don’t know about the organization, but there are Japanese who support the resolution.
    I think it would be wired if people of the democratic country unanimously agree on political issue, though there are such countries in East Asia.

  11. comment number 11 by: toadface

    This could also be said of Korean maps. When the Japanese viewed Korean maps of the East Sea, they again saw two islands in the East Sea. At a glance they could see that the scale of these maps was off. Ulleungdo was much to close to the Korean mainland for these maps to be of accurate scale, so they too considered Usando to be Matsushima. The Japanese government had very little information of the islands directly next to Ulleungdo, only until 1880 did the Japanese government accurately record the existence of Ulleungdo’s “neighbour islands.

    Thus during the investigation into Takeshima around 1878 the Japanese compared Korean maps and documents and some made the natural conclusion that Usando was Matsushima (Dokdo) This makes sense when you compare the Korean maps to Japanese maps.
    Korean map
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/old_korea41.jpg

    Japanese map
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/spanningtext1.jpg

    Not only that when Anyongbok protested Japanese fishing on Ulleungdo he clearly stated “Jasando (Usando) was Matsushima (Dokdo)” This incident would leave an indelible impression on the territorial perceptions of both Koreans and Japanese for centuries thereafter.

    On page 5 of the Anyongbok report found in the archives of the Murakawa family of Shimane Prefecture it was stated “Jasando is Matsushima” It was said to be in the middle of the North Sea and part of Kangwan Province.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/anyongbok-doc5.jpg
    To the Japanese this would have only meant one island-Dokdo. This is because in 1667 the Japanese document Onshu-shicho-goki also recorded and two islands in the North Sea called Takeshima and Matushima.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-saitohosen.html

    The Japanese viewed many maps and documents to arrive at a general consensus about the East Sea, the most basic principle they relied on was two islands existed in the east sea and they followed this rule often with blind conviction.
    Thus to the Japanese:
    Argonaut=Takeshima and Dagelet=Matsushima
    Ulleungdo=Takeshima and Usando=Dokdo

  12. comment number 12 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Toadface,

    I know it is a Japanese copy of a Korean map, but it is still a “Japanese” copy of a Korean map, which means the Japanese’s perception of the location of Usando was influenced by maps like these. The Japanese maps you link to do not even show “Usando.”

    Toadface, you have yet to show me even one Korean or Japanese map that shows “Usando” as Liancourt Rocks. I, on the other hand, have shown you several Korean and Japanese maps that show “Usando” as a neighboring island of Ulleungdo.

  13. comment number 13 by: goda

    It already seems to have solved it.:)

    嵩(Kasa) means height and size of piled thing, or Volume, capacity, and weight.
    Generally, it doesn’t use it to describe a huge thing.
    When the big mountain and the ranging of it are described, 岳 or 嶽 is handled.

    Though I do not percice an English nuance easily,bulkness(ly) or thik(ly) or luxuriant(ly) may have same nuance.

    弓(yumi) means bow.

    So, The outline of the island may be seen like thick, tall a little, arc of the bended bow from a distance.
    This is only a my imagination.

  14. comment number 14 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Ponta & Goda,

    Naver’s Chinese character dictionary gives the meaning of 嵩 as following:

    a) high mountain (높은 산)
    b) mountain’s name (산 이름)
    c) to be high (높다)

    Maybe the Korean concept of 嵩 is different from the Japanese?

    Link to Naver’s Chinese Character Dictionary

  15. comment number 15 by: pacifist

    toadface,
    .

    Not only that when Anyongbok protested Japanese fishing on Ulleungdo he clearly stated “Jasando (Usando) was Matsushima (Dokdo)”.

    .
    The word in the second parentheses is only your imagination and not right.
    .
    It should be:

    Not only that when Anyongbok protested Japanese fishing on Ulleungdo he clearly stated “Jasando (Usando) was Matsushima”.

    .
    This Matsushima is highly likely today’s Jukdo because the Japanese boiled and cooked fish there and Ahn could make a round trip to the island in one day.

  16. comment number 16 by: Kaneganese

    (Japanese translation for Gerry’s post)
    (Gerryの投稿の日本語訳です。)

    下の図は1874年に日本で作成された朝鮮時代の韓国地図で、朝鮮國細見全図といいます。

    地図1:朝鮮國細見全図(1874)

    于山島は、鬱陵島の南の小さな島として地図に描かれています。この時期、韓国の地図は于山島を鬱陵島の2.2km東にある隣接島の竹嶼として描いています。つまり、この地図は当時の韓国側の(于山島は鬱陵島の東にあると言う)認識を反映していない訳です。言い換えれば、日本人が持っていた1874年の鬱陵島の地図は、古い物であったと言うことでしょう。

    地図2:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 鬱陵島拡大図

    次の図は地図の下部に書かれた文章で、地域の様相を説明しているようです。

    図1:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 注釈

    鬱陵島の様子が説明された一文があります。次に示すのが、鬱陵島の説明をしている部分の切抜きです。

    図2:朝鮮國細見全図(1874) 鬱陵島説明文

    次のように記述されています。
    “鬱陵島は一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島と云う 江原道の属島にして三渉 (三陟)の地より水路一千里 島の周廻九百四、五十里と云う”

    于山島が鬱陵島の説明書きの中に描かれていないことにお気づきでしょうか。つまり、その島が小さな隣接島に過ぎない事を示唆しています。鬱陵島の周囲が実際のものよりかなり大きく記載れていることも分かります。

    この地図は、1874年に日本側が于山島が鬱陵島の隣接島であることは分かっていても、正確な位置が分かっていなかったという事実を証明しているのです。

  17. comment number 17 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Thanks again, Kanegese.

    By the way, I am posting these maps so that I can link to them and use them as background information in future posts.

    If you have any comments or suggestions or find any more errors, please do not hesitate to tell me. I want to make sure I get the information correct.

  18. comment number 18 by: goda

    Depending on my dictionary(‘三省堂新漢和中辞典’, This is middle class.)

    1. Volume, capacity
    2. (height or size of) piled thing,
    3. name of mountain ‘嵩山’ in Henan Province,china. etc…
    4. tall (mountain)

    Item below is added in national dictionaly Koujien(‘広辞苑’).

    5. Power(ex. politicaly or manetary ) more than counterpart(other part)

    My annotation in No.13 is present usage of the word in Japan.
    As you know, The word can change in only several generation.

    The dictionary that you quoted may be correct if I interprets it from the ETYMOLOGY of 嵩. because ‘高’ plus ‘山’ means tall mountain.

    I might have caused confusion. sorry.

  19. comment number 19 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Goda,

    You have not caused confusion. You have provided material for debate. I am not sure why Ulleungdo was called 弓嵩島. I just suggested a theory to stimulate debate. I was basically just looking for someone to brainstorm with.

    I am glad to see you commenting.

  20. comment number 20 by: Kaneganese

    Gerry,
    I don’t think you need more correction.
    I’m also interested in 弓 word. Since Japanese never use the Chinese caracter which appeared in “1806 Japanese map of Korea” you linked, they must have replaced the caracter with 弓. In fact, they used 三渉 instead of 三陟 since we don’t use 陟. And it explains why the reading “イソタケシマ” doesn’t match with the Chinese caracter 弓嵩島.

    So sometime from 1874 to 1877, Japanese started to recognize that the location of 于山島 is east of Ulleundo not as south. Does this explains why there appears a big unlabelled island to the south and 間ノ島 to the east of Ulleundo at the same time in 磯竹島略圖 in 1877 ? Just a thought… But Gerry, it is really fun.
    http://www.tanaka-kunitaka.net/takeshima/2a10kou2032-1877/

  21. comment number 21 by: opp

    Ullengdo had been written in Japan before the take a passage permission in Edo period as 磯竹島(Isotakeshima). There is Takeshima also near Oki, and it seems that the 磯(offshore) was applied to distinguish from this island.
    However, 弓嵩 cannot be pronounced as Isotake in Japanese. I do not understand why such a Chinese character was used.
    There might have been a Chosun map that had used such Chinese characters.

  22. comment number 22 by: toadface

    Gerry, very few Japanese maps even used the name Liancourt Rocks. Most Japanese maps used the name Songdo to refer to Dokdo. It was the name given to the island since at least 1618.

    I have given you plenty of both maps and documents that explicitly show the Japanese said “Usando is what we Japanese call Matsushima” What you have failed to do is prove that Japanese called an island directly beside Ulleungdo (neighbour island) Matushima.

    Gerry you are still hopeless trying to build a case that the Japanese called Ulleungdo’s neighbour island “Matsushima” this is a false premise that can be shown by Japanese maps of this era.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/japanese-ulleungdo1.jpg

    Also maps of the Japanese government showed Dokdo to be called “Matsushima” and they did not call Ulleungdo’s nieghbour island “Matsushima” on this map either.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/1877-docmap-2.jpg

    In fact, other Japanese maps that were copied showed Usando very close to Ulleungdo/Korea and excluded any other islands from Japanese territory beyond the Okinoshimas. Here Usando can only be Matsushima (Dokdo)
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/asia-map-usando.jpg

    The Japanese called Dokdo “Matsushima” they equated this island as Usando on both documents and maps. According to the Takeshima lobbyists Matsushima ceases to exist whenever any document or map shows it to be Korean territory such as the map below.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/Japan-world-map-songdo.jpg

  23. comment number 23 by: Apr26

    Hello. Very interesting article.
    Although 嵩 may be pronounced (take) in Japanese, 弓 may never be pronounced (iso). Looking at the 1806 Japanese map of Korea which Gerry mentioned, I feel 弓 should have been the right half of 汚, which is another way of writing 于. Such a different style was used to avoid confusion among 于, 干 and 千.
    If so, 嵩 may have been 山島, making 于山島.

    By the way, I think the Korean Imperial Edict 41 in 1900 is the perfect evidence that Liancourt Rocks do not belong to Korea.
    By failing to mention Liancourt Rocks, the edict indicates either;
    they did not know the existence of Liancourt Rocks,
    they did not claim sovereignty over Liancourt rocks, or
    they thought Liancourt Rocks did not belong to the same county as Ulleungdo, which contradicts to their claim that Dokdo belong to Ulleung region.
    Either of them is enough to deny Korean sovereignty over Liancourt Ricks.
    The edict is countersigned by 内部大臣李乾夏.
    I think there should be some government records in the Korean archives that show how this edict came out. Are such records disclosed in Korea?

  24. comment number 24 by: pacifist

    toadface,
    .

    Most Japanese maps used the name Songdo to refer to Dokdo.

    .
    Songdo is a Korean name for Matsushima, so to avoid confusions you should write as “Most Japanese maps used the name of Matsushima to refer to Takeshima/Dokdo”.
    .
    And the name of Matsushima had been used for many years in the Edo period, as you say, but the name seems to have been half forgotten in the end of Edo period in the turmoil which later lead to Meiji Restoration movement.
    .
    But toadface, didn’t you forget something to do?
    You have to show that Korea really knew and owned Takeshima/Dokdo before Japan incorporated it in 1905. But you couldn’t find the evidence. You maybe know that there won’t be such things.
    .
    Then stop barking around please.

  25. comment number 25 by: opp

    There is a interesting article though the article is already deleted and has remained only in the cache of google.

    Korea Shuts Down Pro-Japanese Online Communities
    By Kim Tae-gyu
    Staff Reporter
    The Korean government and telecom industry have begun to counter Japan’s recent claim to Tokto, Korea’s easternmost islets.
    The state-backed Information Communication Ethics Committee (ICEC) Thursday said the panel ordered the portal site, Daum, to shut down overly pro-Japanese online communities.
    “We made the decision because the communities distorted the history, thus doing mental harm to our youth. We will continue to keep a watchful eye on such problematic online activities,’’ said Han Myeong-ho, who leads the committee’s supervisory team.
    In compliance with the order, Daum closed five communities, which claimed Japan’s sovereignty over Tokto, and plans to continue shutting down other similar Web sites.
    “We found five more overridingly pro-Japanese communities. In consultation with the ICEC, we are mulling over whether to close them,’’ a Daum spokesperson said.
    [email protected] 03-17-2005 15:29

    South Korea is also the same as North Korea.

  26. comment number 26 by: goda

    Gerry.

    Thanks.

    I also wondered the reason why ‘磯竹島’ was changed into ‘弓嵩島’.

    Because pronunciation of these words can’t match.

    ‘竹(take)’ can read as ‘taka’ in old japanese. for example ‘竹垣'(takegaki) can read as ‘takagaki’. but ‘嵩’ can’t read as ‘taka’ while ‘高’ can read as ‘taka’.

    Moreover ‘弓’ also can’t read as ‘iso’.

    Then, I estimated that someone may allot(replace) new character on pronunciation ‘isotakeshima’ from the impression of the island. Japanes sometimes allot the word that cannot be pronounced with (intellectual) play. My perception for alloting was in my post No.13.

    The reason for why alloting should be done, Simply I supposed that writer of this map had forgotten Japanese character ‘磯竹’ for ‘isotake’. 🙂
    Therefore, the Japanese syllabary was added beside of .

    For the reason for the reason, I think that Kaneganese’s opinion is correct.


  27. […] Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 10 […]

  28. comment number 28 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Can anyone answer this question?

    Why did Japan refer to Ulleungdo by both “Takeshima” and “Isotakeshima”?

    Ulleungdo and its neighboring island of Jukdo both had fields of bamboo on them, so wouldn’t it be possible that, orginally, “Takeshima” (竹島) referred to Ulleungdo, and “Isotakeshima” (磯竹島) referred to Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo?

    The reason I ask is that Opp mentioned above that the “Iso” (磯) in Isotakeshima (磯竹島) means “offshore,” so Isotakeshima would literally mean “Offshore Takeshima.” Wouldn’t that be referring to Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo?

    By the way, interesting theory, Apr26.

    You’re welcome, Goda, but I don’t know what I did to deserve a “thanks.” 🙂

    Good night, everyone.

  29. comment number 29 by: GTOMR

    I think ,磯Iso is the meaning of ”rockly coast”
    .
    Im not sure that there is some relation with  武Take/Bu/mu(武陵)-竹Take-Bamboo.
    .
    嵩(consist from 山+高)implies not just “high mountain” but also “sacred high mountains”(嵩高)
    Cf:聖山峰(sacred mountain peaks)

  30. comment number 30 by: goda

    Gerry,

    I was missing maps in post No.5 and No.6.(big sigh)

    ‘弓嵩’ is name of the mountain(s).
    Conception of this naming may be explained by post No.13 and it was affected from pronunciation of the island ‘isotake-shima’.

    Simply, the name of the mountain ‘弓嵩(isod(t)ake)’ was mistakely attached for the name of the island ‘磯竹(isotake)’, because of similar pronunciation, by the writer of document.

    At all, Gerry’s perception of ‘tall mountain island’ is correct.

    I’ve been wandering in Sea of Japan serching for Takeshima. 🙂

    I’m learning about Takeshima issue and English on your thread. So I have plenty of reason for thanks for you, and for menbers of the thread, also for toadface. he stimulate me and I’m very enjoying. i’m fan of him.

  31. comment number 31 by: opp

    Gerry,
    Sorry, 磯 means foreshore or rockly coast.

    Why did Japan refer to Ulleungdo by both “Takeshima” and “Isotakeshima”?

    Japanese maps made in China in the 16th century is being written as 竹島 or 他計什麼(Takeshima).
    The Japanese map drawn in the Japanese folding screen in the 16th end of the century has been described as 磯竹.
    It is being written to have called 五十猛島(Isotakeshima) in 1569 at Japanese 残太平記 which was compiled in 1688.
    The Tsushima clan in Japan insisted to Chosun in 1612 that 磯竹島(Isotakeshima) is Japanese territory.

    Prof. Naito in Japan assumes that Shogunate changed the name to Takeshima from Isotakeshima and deceived on another island, because Chosun insisted that Isotakeshima is Chosun territory. I cannot agree to his insistence because it was known to China as Takeshima. If the shogunate tells a lie as an island different from Isotakeshima, even the character of the 竹(take) will not be used.
    絶影島 near Pusan was called 竹島(Takeshima) in Japan, and there is a theory of having put 「磯」 to distinguish from this 竹島(絶影島), too.


  32. […] Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 10 […]

  33. comment number 33 by: Gerry-Bevers

    I have revised the text in the above post to read as follows:
    ————-

    The above text reads as follows:

    鬱陵島ハ一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島ト云江原道ノ屬島ニシテ三涉ノ地ヨリ水路一千里島ノ周廻九百四五十里ト云

    Ulleungdo (鬱陵島), also known as Isotakeshima (弓嵩島 – イソダケ島), is part of Gangwon Province. It is located in the sea 1,000 ri from Samcheok (三陟). It has a circumference of 940 to 950 ri.

    Notice that Usando (于山島) was not mentioned in the description of Ulleungdo, which suggests that it was just a small, neighboring island. Notice also that the circumference of Ulleungdo was described as being much bigger than it actually is; however, Hanmaumy has suggested here that the 九 in 周廻九百四五十里, was actually 凢, which is another way of writing 凡. The character 凢 means “approximately,” which means the text was actually saying the following:

    鬱陵島ハ一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島ト云江原道ノ屬島ニシテ三涉ノ地ヨリ水路一千里島ノ周廻凢百四五十里ト云

    Ulleungdo (鬱陵島), also known as Isotakeshima (弓嵩島 – イソダケ島), is part of Gangwon Province. It is located in the sea 1,000 ri from Samcheok (三陟), and has a circumference of approximately 140 to 150 ri.

    The above translation makes much more sense since the circumference of Ulleungdo was approximately 140 to 150 ri.

    At any rate, the above map is evidence that, in 1874, Japan knew that Usando was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, but still did not know the exact location.

    ————-


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  35. […] Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 10 […]


  36. […] Lies, Half-truths, and Dokdo Video, Maps 10 […]


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  42. comment number 42 by: madboots

    Well, Gerry, when I translated that description first, I had no doubt the character in question was ‘九.’ But after attempting a closer look at the character on Hanmaumy’s site, I noticed we could even say it was ‘凢’, too. Anyway, I must apologize for failing to point out the possibility of ‘凢’ at the beginning.
    sorry.

  43. comment number 43 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Madboots,

    It was not your fault. I only had a grainy copy of the text, and in that copy, the character did look like 九.

  44. comment number 44 by: Kaneganese

    I totally forgot to post this revised part. 

    于山島が鬱陵島の説明書きの中に描かれていないことにお気づきでしょうか。つまり、その島が小さな隣接島に過ぎない事を示唆しています。鬱陵島の周囲が実際のものよりかなり大きく記載れていることも分かります、が、Hammauyさんは”周廻九百四五十里”の”九”は実は”凢”という”凡”の別字であると推測しています。”凢”は、”約”という意味なので、この説明文は次のような意味になります。

    “鬱陵島は一名弓嵩(イソダケ)島と云う 江原道の属島にして三渉 (三陟)の地より水路一千里 島の周廻は凡そ百四、五十里と云う”

    鬱陵島の周囲は約140~150kmなので、この訳のほうがより実情に即しています。

    いずれにせよこの地図は、1874年に日本側が于山島が鬱陵島の隣接島であることは分かっていても、正確な位置が分かっていなかったという事実を証明しているのです。


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