Occidentalism
Duc, sequere, aut de via decede!

Mans best friend

October 3rd, 2005 . by Matt

I want to go on the record and say that I dont mind Koreans eating dogs (even though it is supposed to be illegal in Korea) .

The BBC reports that –

Statistics show that dog is the fourth most popular meat in South Korea after pork, beef and chicken.

There are said to be more than 6,000 restaurants across the country selling poshintang, or dog meat soup, getting through about 8,500 tons per year. Another 93,600 tons is used annually to produce a medical tonic called kaesoju.

Still, there is a problem with Korean dog eating food culture, and its not the eating of the dogs. Its the way that the dogs are treated right up until they are killed. When foreigners object to this treatment, Koreans try to throw in a red herring by saying that westerners are hypocritical because they eat other animals, or that dog eating = Korean nationalism. The other red herring is that the dogs that Koreans eat are different to the dogs that westerners have for pets, and are thus unworthy of consideration. I will reiterate: the problem is with the way the dogs are treated, not the eating of dogs. Dog is also eaten in China, Taiwan, Burma, Indonesia, Laos, Vietnam, Ghana, and the Congo, but I have no idea how they are treating their dogs, so this post will apply to Korea only (Koreans also consume cats).

According to the Korea Animal Protection Society, Koreans believe that ‘Pedigree dogs are suitable pets, but mixed breeds are used for food’.

Generally, owners treat pedigree dogs well. They are fed properly and given love. However, many people who own mixed breed dogs abuse them and/or keep them tied up, and their sole purpose is to protect their owner’s property. They forget that all dogs, pedigree or mixed, have descended from wolves. There is a great tendency for prejudice against mixed breed dogs because Koreans only want what is perfect and pure. It is this same train of thought which prevents Koreans from wishing to adopt children. They don’t want a child that is not of their own blood, Instead, many Korean orphans find homes overseas. This myth is, of course, only acknowledged when convenient because KAPS has documented numerous pedigrees in the markets that are abviously abandoned or stolen pets. In addition, most of the dogs in the markets look disturbingly similar to the chindogae, designated national treasure #53, according to the Korean Embassy’s website.

Warning – the following shows graphic pictures of abused animals. If you are sensitive, it is better not to continue reading.

doggy
Piled into cages

dog
This is the problem

dog
This kind of abuse dehumanizes the abuser

poor doggy
These dogs dont look much different from the dogs in the west. You can see the horror the dogs are feeling in their eyes

This is just the start of their torture.

Koreans have a belief summarized in the saying, ‘개는 때려 잡아야 맛있다’, which litterly means ‘beaten dogs taste better’. This, and an unscientific belief that eating dogs bring health benefits means that dogs undergo horrific torture – literally tortured to death.

puppies
Puppies have tender meat for connoisseurs

terrible pure breed
The dog on on top knows what is going to happen, and is resisting. The other dog is a pure breed Pointer, proof that the Koreans dont just eat ‘special eating dogs’

The dogs are hung and then beaten to death. Sometimes this can take several hours.

hanged hanged2
The dogs get hanged, as if they were criminals

hidoi
After being killed, the dog is then blowtorched to remove the fur (there are also reports of dogs being blowtorched while still alive)

heads
They are then sold in the markets

There are more pictures out there, many much much worse. I just dont have the heart to continue writing this post. The last thing I will say to Koreans is ‘eat dogs if you must, but please show humanity to dogs when they are alive, and in the method of killing’.


71 Responses to “Mans best friend”

  1. comment number 1 by: Will Matthews

    Hmmm,

    48,422,644 South Koreans. (North Koreans make up the rest I guess)

    2,000,000 dogs.

    Which seems to be just a small portion of dog per Korean person.

    Leaves just one question I guess.

    Victor, are you a leg man or a breast man?

    Will.

    PS: …on the upside, with dog, everyone gets a drumstick.

  2. comment number 2 by: Victor

    Will
    I’ll be blunt with you again!
    How come you keep posting when you have no argument to make??? Let’s just say that our debate is suspended due to some unexpected “glitches” (namely, the interruption by the third party)

    Or even better, let’s make it: Debate OVER between Victor and Will…Debate COMING between Victor and Matt…

    …Yeaaaah. Drums are rolling..Taste the Victory. The laurel is all yours, solely yours. oh well, sorta. b/c I don’t want to take the luarel…You take it..and be the winner. I’ll be the loser…Just leave me alone..

    I’d rather debate with Matt and see where it leads.

    You proved yourself to be a bad sport and a lousy debater!
    Just look at what was thrown at me after I “proved” my points to you. You branded me as an argue-loving Korean who just demonstrated to everyone that Koreans have an attitude problem and you even predicted that inevitable trouble would be looming around the 6 nation talks based on my posts!! *Good grief* Besides, when the British enter the dog-eating club where Koreans belong, does it mean that I have to somehow prove the significance of Korean culture in Britain?? What does one have to do with the other? Why did you give me that irrelevant P.S. question?? I am at a loss. Will,I do ackowledge that Britain has been “acquitted” from our shameful club for a while. Hong Kong will remain, but Britain is out. Wait until I get the British right back into the club.

    Meanwhile, it would be my pleasure to boost your ego/pride by responding to the followings(2% sarcasm, 50% indifference, 48% sincerity):

    Yoshida Shigeru (I believe once said) “If there are two Koreans in the room, it’s likely there are at least 3 points of view, these people love to argue.”

    -Yes, I cannot agree with you more that we Koreans love to argue…

    To everyone else. Can you imagine how the 6 nation talks go over nuclear disarmament in North Korea?

    -I’m sure it will be a total pandemonium…

    It must be like trying to wrestle a greased snake into a butter covered plastic bag.

    -I am certain, indeed

    PS: For future reference, what, exactly, is Korea famous for in Britain?

    -Absolutely for nothing. We already went over it…I already posted SK is as insignificant as Luxembourg, Bangladesh and Tuvalu, quoting your own words if you remember..

    If this will make you feel better, or since Matt made some good points, let’s just make Korea the #1 dog nation in the world for now…. SK already has had a plenty of skeletons in the closet and Matt has been successfully exposing them (no scarcasm intended). So the #1 dog-eating country to boot … what’s the big deal?? In the end, aren’t i the only one who felt sickened by the korean dog eating pictures?? or the only one who said so??

  3. comment number 3 by: Will Matthews

    Victor,

    Thanks for the support.

    You said “what’s the big deal??”

    I say “nothing”, something I’ve said all along. (The subject’s irrelevant, in my honest opinion.)

    So, finally we agree. Very, very, valiant of you to finally come round to my way of thinking.

    You said: ” …In the end, aren’t i the only one who felt sickened by the Korean dog eating pictures??”

    I say: “Apparently you are, as I would happily eat dog. Assuming that the animal had been treated with a modicum of humanity and of cause, it would have to be prepared correctly (who wants to eat under-cooked dog?) So, me that is and 48 million (minus 1 in Canada) Koreans that seem to want to eat dog and are not too upset by the pictures.

    You said “… And are not sickened at all by the pictures.”

    I say: Not really, I earned money briefly while at University, working in abattoir and these pictures are nothing to what I’ve seen and I still eat pork, happily. Humans are more important than the beasts is my honest opinion on the subject.

    Also, In my opinion the greater portion of 48,000,000 million Koreans can’t be wrong about the great taste of dog. It MUST be ‘finger lickin’ good’.

    So, who am I to argue with that? 48 Million people !?!?! On the other hand, you seem: Embarrassed, regretful, apologetic, I can’t find the right word, I’m just sorry that you find this, in someway, degrading for the (yours and my words) proud to be continually argumentative Koreans. Perhaps I’m wrong about this, I’d happily put my hand up and say so.

    By the way, South Korea is one of the top industrialized nations on earth, it (despite its lack of presence in the UK popular media psyche) is far from insignificant, which you seem at pains now to promote. Which I feel is something of a shame. You really should be more proud of your heritage.

    So, I believe we can summarise the debate so far:

    You believe Korea is a cruel, argumentative, dog eating, insignificant country. (You know, I can almost feel your parents disappointment.)

    And finally, while I only agree on the argumentative point, I also believe Korea is most famous and most recognised for dog eating here in the UK and quite surprisingly, Hong Kong and China, despite their love of Canine meat, are not, AT ALL, recognised for eating dog here in the UK, which I agree is odd but true.

    Oh! One other point: While the great people of Luxembourg, Bangladesh and Tuvalu (and Korea I guess) are unlikely, as ‘I said’, to make any cultural ‘Waves’ in the UK, I think your constant accusation that they are ‘insignificant’ (your words and never mine) is not giving their countries the full recognition for their achievements that they perhaps do deserve.

    All the best and again thanks, we seem to finally have come to a conclusion.

    Will

    PS: When I asked if you were a breast or leg man, I just wondered if you preferred a particular ‘cut’ from the dog. I’m again guessing, you’ve never eaten K9? What a shame, perhaps we could have exchanged restaurant locations.

  4. comment number 4 by: Victor

    I believe you are technically incorrect. People in Hong Kong were never citizens of the UK

    Why don’t you just acknowledge the nationality of the people in Hong Kong under the British rule. They were British citizens for 100 years!!! If you disagree, tell me what was their citizenship?

    I do not believe that they were British citizens. There is a difference between British Dependent Territories Citizens and actual citizens of the UK.

    British Dependent Territories Citizens – you get it?? (or are you saying British Department Territories Citizens are not British citizens??????)

    The British Empire had extensive territories all around the world, including places that ate human beings (although the British Empire tried to stamp that out). It would be nonsense to call the UK a ‘human eating country’ because of the backwards customs of some of its conquered peoples.

    Oh my! Cannibbals are also British citizens?? So Britain has/had “human-eating” citizens on top of “guard dog-eating” citizens!! What a shocker!

    backwards customs of some of its conquered peoples

    Let’s not be prejudiced!! These conquered people are also British citizens. I’m talking about nationality. (I’m not talking about English or Scotch here.) Don’t try to deprive them of the citizenship that they are very proud of….I’m quasi-sure that to the eyes of the Queen, all of her subjectve, including the Cannibbals and dog-eaters, will be equally precious …

    Yes, but the Chinese population is 27 times larger than the South Korean population. Lets do the math. If the Chinese population is 27 times larger than the Korean population and is only eating five times as many dogs as Koreans are, that means that Korea is the most enthusiastic dog eating country by far. It means that the practice is more wide spread in Korea than it is in China, and it should be normal that Korea could be considered the leading dog eating country. Per capita, Koreans eat about 2.5 times more dogs than Chinese.

    The bottom-line is that Animals Asia Foundation, which is devoted to animals protection in ASIA, is far more concerned with China’s dog-eating than Korea’s dog-eating. For them China is the leading dog-eating country in the world. Also they clearly stated that South Korea’s dog-eating practice has been exaggerated. (find their link in my previous posts) I’d rather go by what they report…Isn’t it supposed to be a crdible source?

    Its also nonsense to call the UK a former dog eating nation.

    Ok, ok. I’ll call the UK “a nation that had dog-eating citizens for 100 years” Fair enough??

    I dont see what you are getting offended about. Korea is a dog eating nation.

    You are totally right…But it’s not very pleasant to see koreans being stereotyped to be dog-eaters..

    Well, dog eating was illegal, and the government seemed unable to stop it. So what?

    Well, (I’m being really “korean” here) did the BBC cover it? Did the BBC reveal how their compatriots were feasting their mouths on their own guard dogs in their own territory?? If they already did it, why should the following be big news: Dog-eating is illegal in SK and Sk government seemed unable to stop it. Koreans eat dog!

    you cant blame people for pointing out the truth, as distasteful to you as that is.

    I don’t blame them for it. I only ask them not to distort the truth, that’s all..Anyway, I’m doing it myself in a distasteful way here as well: I’m calling Britain a nation that has(or had?) human-eating citizens and guard dog-eating citizens.

    Therefore the irony that you were looking for is completely lost.

    Not really..Britain had dog-eating citizens and human-eating citzens..It’s ironic for them to point their fingers at Korea for doing what their former compatriots used to do….

    *compatriot: a person holding citizenship in the same country…
    By the way, Great Britain is Canada’s mother country… It was not my intention to even remotely make fun of or to insult it.

  5. comment number 5 by: Matt

    Victor, your response was pretty weak and is based on ignorance. I will take the trouble to answer you anyway.

    Why don’t you just acknowledge the nationality of the people in Hong Kong under the British rule. They were British citizens for 100 years!!! If you disagree, tell me what was their citizenship?

    The were not british citizens, they were British Dependent Territories Citizens. They didnt have the right to live in the UK (Britain), and didnt hold a British passport. Other countries also imposed special rules on British Dependent Territories Citizens, which meant that many people from the Dependent Territories needed visa’s to enter other countries, while actual British citizens could enter automatically.

    British Dependent Territories Citizens – you get it?? (or are you saying British Department Territories Citizens are not British citizens??????)

    Writing British and Citizen in bold does not make the two words in the middle disappear, Victor. You should dwell on why they were called British Dependent Territories Citizens and not just British citizens if they were actual citizens of Britain.

    Oh my! Cannibbals are also British citizens?? So Britain has/had “human-eating” citizens on top of “guard dog-eating” citizens!! What a shocker!

    And

    Let’s not be prejudiced!! These conquered people are also British citizens. I’m talking about nationality. (I’m not talking about English or Scotch here.) Don’t try to deprive them of the citizenship that they are very proud of….I’m quasi-sure that to the eyes of the Queen, all of her subjectve, including the Cannibbals and dog-eaters, will be equally precious …

    What prejudice? That I called eating people a ‘backward custom’? Actually, I would call cannibalism positively savage. They were not British citizens, and if they were, you would find that they would all be living in Britain right now. As for the Queen thinking that cannibals are ‘precious’, let me express contempt for your low opinion of the Queen.

    The bottom-line is that Animals Asia Foundation, which is devoted to animals protection in ASIA, is far more concerned with China’s dog-eating than Korea’s dog-eating. For them China is the leading dog-eating country in the world. Also they clearly stated that South Korea’s dog-eating practice has been exaggerated. (find their link in my previous posts) I’d rather go by what they report…Isn’t it supposed to be a crdible source?

    I based my calculations on information that you offered. According to that, Koreans eat 2.5 times more dogs than Chinese per capita.

    Ok, ok. I’ll call the UK “a nation that had dog-eating citizens for 100 years” Fair enough??

    The people of HK were never UK citizens. They didnt even have the right to live in the UK. Understood?

    Well, (I’m being really “korean” here) did the BBC cover it? Did the BBC reveal how their compatriots were feasting their mouths on their own guard dogs in their own territory?? If they already did it, why should the following be big news: Dog-eating is illegal in SK and Sk government seemed unable to stop it. Koreans eat dog!

    Im pretty positive that at some point the BBC or other British media were reporting the eating of dog meat. Do you have any evidence that the BBC never reported dog eating in Hong Kong? Also, under British rule, dog eating was continually declining. Is the same true for South Korea?

    I don’t blame them for it. I only ask them not to distort the truth, that’s all..Anyway, I’m doing it myself in a distasteful way here as well: I’m calling Britain a nation that has(or had?) human-eating citizens and guard dog-eating citizens.

    What truth was distorted?

    Not really..Britain had dog-eating citizens and human-eating citzens..It’s ironic for them to point their fingers at Korea for doing what their former compatriots used to do….

    Britain spent a lot of time trying to civilize the people in the territories under their control. It was called the white man’s burden. Britain did not approve, and actively tried to stamp out, backwards practices. Calling peoples of overseas territories that did not have the rights of british citizens, did not have the right of abode in the UK, did not have British passports, were not treated as normal British citizens by other countries ‘British citizens’ or the UK as a ‘dog eating nation for the last 100 years’ shows your ignorance of the way the British Empire was run, more than anything.

  6. comment number 6 by: Victor

    They didnt have the right to live in the UK (Britain), and didnt hold a British passport.

    —People from Hong Kong used to hold the “British passport”. And that was the basis of my argument: people in Hong Kong = British citizens. But maybe it was the “British passport” for Hong Kong people! Perhaps….

    The were not british citizens, they were British Dependent Territories Citizens. They didnt have the right to live in the UK (Britain), and didnt hold a British passport. Other countries also imposed special rules on British Dependent Territories Citizens, which meant that many people from the Dependent Territories needed visa’s to enter other countries, while actual British citizens could enter automatically.

    Good point. I didn’t even think about it. I wonder how on earth Will, a British, didn’t or failed to point that out??

    … let me express contempt for your low opinion of the Queen.

    Jesus Chirst! That was supposed to be a joke, OK???

    The people of HK were never UK citizens. They didnt even have the right to live in the UK. Understood?

    Basically, I was confusing citizenship with nationality???Because the nationality of HK people was indeed British!

    What truth was distorted?

    Will wrote:
    “…..I also believe Korea is most famous and most recognised for dog eating here in the UK and quite surprisingly, Hong Kong and China, despite their love of Canine meat, are not, AT ALL, recognised for eating dog here in the UK, which I agree is odd but true………..”

    ‘British citizens’ or the UK as a ‘dog eating nation for the last 100 years’ shows your ignorance of the way the British Empire was run, more than anything

    I just put my foot in my mouth. Thanks for embarassing me..

  7. comment number 7 by: Victor

    Will,

    Let’s make a peace!?
    I’m seriously confused now…What did you think of Matt’s post? Any comments on it? And, how did you fail to point out what Matt’s pointed out. Were you aware of the fact that Hong Kong Chinese were not British citizens?? B/c if they were not British citizens in the first place, then my association of the British with dog-eating was a pretty lousy, lousy argument from the very beginning. But you were buying into it???
    Recently, we’ve posted some wacky posts, but maybe we can have some civilized conversation/debate now?

  8. comment number 8 by: Victor

    I wasn’t sure whether I should respond to your post or not…b/c it sounded almost like looney monologue…but what the heck! Here is my (belated) response to your post…(I hope you are still around??)

    Victor, Thanks for the support.

    Now I feel guilty about calling you ” a bad sport” and ” a lousy debater.” I only did it b/c you assured me that you are wearing a full armor of impregnable confidence when you’re ON-LINE….

    So, finally we agree.

    I cannot disagree more with this statement…

    On the other hand, you seem: Embarrassed, regretful, apologetic, I can’t find the right word

    You are being delirious…

    Also, In my opinion the greater portion of 48,000,000 million Koreans can’t be wrong about the great taste of dog. It MUST be ‘finger lickin’ good’.

    I’m sure you will find it “frea kin’ good”……………

    So, who am I to argue with that? 48 Million people !?!?!

    There are 2 million dog-eaters in Korea. And how on earth did the number get inflated to 48 millions? If people are so grotesquely irresponsible with numbers like you, it’s no wonder Korea is the #1 dog-eating country in Britain…

    I’m just sorry that you find this, in someway, degrading for the (yours and my words) proud to be continually argumentative Koreans.

    You got me lost now

    You really should be more proud of your heritage.

    Are you saying I really should leave this block/blog?

    You believe Korea is a cruel, argumentative, dog eating, insignificant country. (You know, I can almost feel your parents disappointment.)

    That’s not how I used to view Korea… I guess I’ve been “brainwashed” by the folks on this block…

    I also believe Korea is most famous and most recognised for dog eating here in the UK

    Remember…(darn, now how should I put this?) Some people who had the nationality of British also ate dog for 100 years.

    I think your constant accusation that they are ‘insignificant’ (your words and never mine) is not giving their countries the full recognition for their achievements that they perhaps do deserve.

    OK You didn’t exactly use this word – insignificant. Nevertheless, your post was “screaming” the insignificance of all things Korean in Britain. It was so loud that it even woke up the dead and brought him back to life…and I’m talking about Nou here..For your information, he was already banned and was supposedly unable to post here…He made that ghostly apparition just to raise “hell” with you (even though Matt quickly busted him)….I’m sure you didn’t know it…

    When I asked if you were a breast or leg man, I just wondered if you preferred a particular ‘cut’ from the dog.

    Wasn’t that supposed to be a sexual innuendo joke? kind of lame, I find..

    perhaps we could have exchanged restaurant locations.

    Do you eat at Wall-Mart?

  9. comment number 9 by: Will Matthews

    Victor,

    First some questions.

    What does ‘b/c’ mean? I’m a little confused.

    What has dog meat got to do with sexual innuendo?

    Does Walmart in Korea really sell dog meat? I checked and tried their website, http://www.walmart.kr it didn’t seem to work.

    And what does “I’m sure you will find it “frea kin’ good”……………” mean? Is this Korean language word play. I’m sorry; I’m ashamed to say I don’t speak any Korean.

    Some answers.

    – 48 Million dog eaters in Korea.

    I thought it was 2 million dogs eaten by 48 million South Koreans? My apologies, I might have gotten this wrong, or rather the wrong end of the stick. I’ll check back. (Please don’t read this as sexual innuendo.)

    Still, 2 Million dogs eaten by 2 million South Koreans clarifies another point we seem to have gotten stuck on. They (the Koreans) eat the whole ‘dog’. Therefore, you don’t have a favourite cut. I think I’m beginning to understand. Really Victor, trying to get any form of cultural understanding from you is really quite difficult. You seem hell bent on taking every statement as some kind of personal attack.
    One other observation, assuming that most South Koreans are honest law abiding citizens, with, like any country, a few scoundrels, imagine how many dogs would be eaten if it were legal? The mind boggles.

    – Regarding “Screams insignificance regarding Luxembourg, Bangladesh and Tuvalu”.

    This, I feel is rather rude of you Victor. My response is as follows: Not at all; the real reason for picking them is the local amateur cricket team, my two closest drinking partners are from Bangladesh (he’s actually completely nuts about Cricket and quite a good player) and a chap from Luxembourg, who in fairness is about as bad as I am, I’m sure he won’t be to offended by this comment, although in fairness, he is half Romanian, but grew up in Luxembourg. I use these 2 countries in most of corporate presentations. They are usually the first two countries that spring to mind. Funnily enough the chap from Luxembourg works for the foreign office and is in communiqué with their (the Luxembourg) tourist board.

    Victor, what’s your point? Please don’t second guess what is in my mind. If you have a question or are unsure of what I am thinking, or I haven’t made myself entirely clear, as I know I sometimes do, (and I apologise) all you need to do is ask. Don’t let these thing mix with what appears to be your own insecurities (?) and then feel the need to launch another ambiguous and somewhat confusing attack on what I’m quite innocently trying to convey to you. Remember: We are all part of Common Wealth and perhaps should show a little more unity.

    Oh! And I simply used Tuvalu because I have been looking at ‘it’ and its surrounding Islands as a potential holiday location. Just names of countries that spring to mind. Like I’ve said time and time again. What might be insignificant to you (Victor), is not insignificant to everyone else. I think it is quite, quite, rude, that you constantly second guess peoples comments, without knowing them and then start making accusations that are deeply offensive. I feel you should apologise.

    I thought ‘Nou’ was your feminine alter ego? Again, I perhaps made a mistake. Or rather my brother made mistake. He is a professional psychologist, (of some standing) and I was talking to him about our (You and I, Victor) online conversation, and was trying to see if he knew anything about Korean peoples tendency to be argumentative. Which he assured me was not the case. So, for this I officially apologise. If in any way, I offended a Korea person by suggesting that they were argumentative culturally, then I apologise most sincerely. However, he did suggest that you, Victor, were homosexual and your female alter-ego manifested itself as ‘Nou’. Obviously, I couldn’t possibly comment, suffice to say that I will in future be a little more sensitive to your condition Victor.

    Of cause I’m not suggesting that homosexuality is a medical condition, however, the conflict in your (Victor) mind must be terrible. The feminine element and the masculine element, the conflict of cultures Korean and Canadian and the mixed messages from the Korean government regarding foreign policy with Japan, America, North Korea, etc., etc.

    All I can say is if it is true and you are a homosexual person, then all I can do is apologise for adding to any internal mental struggle you face day-after-day and I certainly had no intension of adding to it. I understand from my brother, that if you have not ‘come out’ yet, then this can be a very difficult and stressful time, for you and your family. So, please, please, accept my most humble apologises. I realise you’ll probably deny what I’m suggesting here but do remember our thoughts are with you.

    Your conflicting mind set, your twisting, sometimes incomprehensible, base, dribbling arguments, that have no baring on the actual debate at hand, are simply manifestations of the confusion in your own mind. And I ask everyone, to be mindful of this when communicating with you (Victor).

    I pray for you Victor and encourage everyone else to do the same. You are very brave young man.

    My wife and I, send our deepest admiration.

    Kindest regards,

    Will.

  10. comment number 10 by: Victor

    Matt and Ponta:

    This is getting out of hand:

    I thought ‘Nou’ was your feminine alter ego? Again, I perhaps made a mistake. Or rather my brother made mistake. He is a professional psychologist, (of some standing) and I was talking to him about our (You and I, Victor) online conversation…… However, he did suggest that you, Victor, were homosexual and your female alter-ego manifested itself as ‘Nou’ Obviously, I couldn’t possibly comment, suffice to say that I will in future be a little more sensitive to your condition Victor.

    I was laughing at first, but Will seems dead serious and I don’t know what I did to him…Is there any way you guys can intervene and clear things up? (or please let me know if I had some attitude problems) b/c you guys are the only people who would know for sure that I’m not Nou. I would greatly appreciate it, Matt, if you could somehow confirm that Nou and Victor are two different people. I know I can be a big pain, but you didn’t ban me after what I did to you (ancestry insult, complaint, criticism. etc.)..so I’d like to think that you have some faith in me..no?

    I sincerely apologize to you, Will, if you found some of my remarks to be “personal attack”… I really thought we were just having a fun discussion/debate. My last post was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek post, please do not take it seriously..(“frea kin” “brainwashed” “sexual innuendo” “wallmart” etc.) (b/c=because).. About the “insignificance” part, I thought you were suggesting in your post that Korea/Korean culture is insiginificant and, I thought perhaps that suggestion (korea/korean culture is insignificant) had really upset Nou. (and I’m not Nou)

    And my lame excuse for giving you such a hard time would be: I thought you could handle my sarcastic jokes and criticisms. After all, you said:

    You, my friend, could never (ever) upset me, it’s not possible. Not online, no chance.

    Let’s just wait for Matt and see what he has to say about the whole “fiasco”. In the end, it’s his blog. And I don’t think he would be very happy with what we are doing here on his blog right now..

    By the way, I’m not a mentally deranged person as you and your psychologist brother seem to suggest…Again, my deep apologies to you and to anybody else who found my past posts offensive!

  11. comment number 11 by: ponta

    It was fun. i enjoyed.I learn a lot—— the way you guys argue, the sense of humor in English,sacarsm, joke etc ..(I could not understand some of the words though.)That’s all.
    I hope you guys will be keep commenting on other topics.
    That’s my opinion.

  12. comment number 12 by: Wiesunja

    This was hilarious. Will, you are a god. Man, those Koreans sure are funny when you look at them in the same way that Dr. Jane Goodall did when observing apes in their habitat.

    BTW, do the words “logic”, “mature” or “rational thinking” exist in the Korean language? I have noticed that the Korean mind is incapable of understanding these concepts even when trying one’s best to explain them. In the end, it only makes one end up shooting himself in the head just as you wrote above. 🙂 I think I would have better luck in trying to raise the dead than actually succeed in having a Korean mind understand these concepts.

  13. comment number 13 by: Victor

    Will,

    I’ll have to tell you this: from the time when I began to accuse Britain of being a dog-eating nation to hte time when I posted my tongue-in- cheek post, I was just silly, whacky, looney and serious all at the same time!! I considered our debate a hilarious game and I was trying to make a point in a thoroughly unconventional way…For me, it was so hilariously funny to present the UK as a dog-eating nation, and Will, you seemed quite at a loss, which made it even more comical…and Will, I really thought you were playing along with me as well. (with your suicidal scenario…whaky posts and your offbeat sense of humour) I thougth we were being hilarious and serious at the same time…It was wild!

    Also in the process I learned how to be sarcastic and I got to hone my writing as well because I got to use some words that I don’t normally use. I was being creative and that’s how I came up with “argue-loving”, “frea kin'” etc. But even though we were “fighting” with each other I thought we had a smile on our faces.

    However, suddenly there was a moment of uncomfortable silence and you came back to the stage with a alarmingly serious face while I was still playing the “clown”. I realized that my “black comedy” has become too scathing….Yes, I gave you a hard time, but I thought you were williing to play this hilarious piece together. When I realized that you were completely serious, I immediately made an apology to you. Now I look around and it seems to me everybody is looking at me and is saying, “what a weirdo!”

    My black comey has gone awry. I thought everybody knew that I was making fun of myself, but..I pushed too far, perhaps..

    I realize, what’s funny to one person could be bizarre or even “hurting” to another person. A good lesson for me.
    Will, now I’ll take some time to answer your questions:

    What has dog meat got to do with sexual innuendo?

    Weren’t you joking when you asked me whether I was a breast man or a leg man? So it was just a sarcastic joke on my part when I talked about sexual innuendo..

    Does Walmart in Korea really sell dog meat?

    Walmart is a shopping centre. So I thought it would be kind of funny to ask you back, do you eat at walmart? It implies that my favoriate restaurant is walmart.

    “frea kin’ good”

    Again I was being wacky. Finger lickin’ good=freaking good= frea kin’ good

    -About insignificance: I clarified already. By the way, Nou is another poster who was banned and who responded to your post several days ago. And just read that section where I talk about Nou. I was referrring to him as a ghost and I was just having fun, while getting my point across at the same time..You seem to have taken it way too seriously.

    -About Nou: Nou is not my alter ego. Nou is not me. I thought Matt or Ponta could have helped me out here. But it seems like they didn’t “get” my black comedy either and perhaps think I’m a wacko.

    -About your psychologist brother: I thought I hurt your feelings so much that you had to see your brother. But upon reading your post for the second time, it seems more like you talked to him to inquire my mental stability. And I feel offended. But it’s all my fault. I shouldn’t have played a game with somebody who’s much older..

    -About homosexuality: When I supported Korea in the past and criticized Korean-bashers, I was perceived to be first) anti-japanese, second) anti-american, third) a Korean nationalist pretending to be a canadian. Although you are not a korean basher, I had some crazy debate with you and now I’m a troubled homosexual man with an alter female ego named Nou? Gimme a break. You and your psychologist brother watched too many Hollywood movies. Perhaps, next time, somebody will start calling me an alien in disguise. I keep forgeting that everybody here is not fond of Korea and that I have to be careful with my mouth. And, this time my mouth was pretty scathing, I guess. I apologize.

    -About your warning to everybody: Please read my posts in other threads. I could be a pain in the a**, but I’m a pretty decent person and I’m pretty open-minded. There were times when I criticized Korea when it deserved it.

    I really, really hope that this will clear things up a bit..It is extremely unpleasant to be perceived as a troubled homosexual man with a deranged mind. And thaks for being part of my scathing comey. Whether you or other people enjoyed or not, I thoroughly enjoyed myself. If you need any more question or clarification, let me know. Otherwise, don’t worry. I won’t bother/pick on you again.

    Sincerely,
    Victor

  14. comment number 14 by: randomcow

    I considered our debate a hilarious game

    Mental Note: Ignore everything Victor says from here on in because once he has lost a debate he will declare that it was just a ‘hilarious game.’

    RC

  15. comment number 15 by: Victor

    Randomcow,
    I’d rather lose a debate than see my debater go to a psychologist as a result.
    Would’t you?

    All the best,
    Victor

  16. comment number 16 by: Victor

    In addition, I ‘d rather apologize to my debater than traumatize my debater, understood?

    And, Wiesunja wrote:

    This was hilarious. Will, you are a god. Man, those Koreans sure are funny when you look at them in the same way that Dr. Jane Goodall did when observing apes in their habitat.

    BTW, do the words “logic”, “mature” or “rational thinking” exist in the Korean language? I have noticed that the Korean mind is incapable of understanding these concepts even when trying one’s best to explain them. In the end, it only makes one end up shooting himself in the head just as you wrote above. I think I would have better luck in trying to raise the dead than actually succeed in having a Korean mind understand these concepts.

    Wiesunja, We know exactly why he is your god. His post touched you deep inside, didn’t it? After all, doesn’t the following quotes from your god apply to you more than anybody else? Your god said:

    Your conflicting mind set, your twisting, sometimes incomprehensible, base, dribbling arguments, that have no baring on the actual debate at hand, are simply manifestations of the confusion in your own mind. ….Don’t let these thing mix with what appears to be your own insecurities (?) and then feel the need to launch another ambiguous and somewhat confusing attack

    And according to your god, people like you are likely to be gay:
    if…you are a homosexual person…..if you have not ‘come out’ yet, then this can be a very difficult and stressful time, for you and your family……..do remember our thoughts are with you… You are very brave young man.

    Let’s say amen to that!
    (just for a note: I’m making fun of wiesunja, not wiesunja’s god.)

  17. comment number 17 by: nulji

    some of the photos you used are actually from china and vietnam. unscrupulous, aren’t you?

  18. comment number 18 by: Matt

    some of the photos you used are actually from china and vietnam. unscrupulous, aren’t you?

    Some evidence, nulji? I got them from Korean sites.

  19. comment number 19 by: Big Tam

    Interestingly, you can actually buy dog to eat in the UK if you speak Cantonese and go to the right restaurants in China Town. It is not on the English menus but is on the Chinese ones. This was confirmed to me by a Cantonese Chinese doctor who disapproved. Apparently the old folk like it especially in winter as it is considered a very yang meat and the Vietnamese Chinese immigrants are the providers. Big questions arise about where their sources are.

    Of course, reading this and the other post about Islam and icecream, I think you guys got it all wrong. Rather than toss sophistry over the details and get personal what we need to do is introduce Islam to the Koreans ;

    Koreans like pigs, Islamics offended.
    Koreans offer Islamics dog butt kebabs,
    Islamics even more offended.
    Islamics discovers Korea is part of Christian kabal,
    Islamics offended even more attacks Korea with knives.
    Korea offended by Islamic, blames Japan, and attacks self with knives.
    World War 2.75 breaks out leaving Japan to move back into the Peninsula and finish the job of civilising it that it got so rudely distracted from by America.

    Imagine Daddy Korean going home at night to the wife and kids …

    ” Hard day at the tree stump darling? “,

    ” Jee, yes, Honey. Had to hang 20 puppies by the neck and beat the living day lights out of them for 4 hours and they still had not died … my arm is aching “,

    ” Hmmn, sounds delicious! Were they really frightened? Did they die agonisingly … ?”.

    ” Why, yes, honey. Say, is that the King James Bible you have there? Did you know that the Essenes were originally Koreans and we invented Christianity? “.

    ” Daddy, daddy, daddy … can I have a turn with the blowtorch now? ”

    And as far as pigs being more intelligent than dogs, [ or dogs being 7 times more unclean than pigs ] I have never heard of a pig saving a human being’s life, acting as eyes for a blind person, an alert for an epileptic, a guard for a village nor giving its life for its human companion.

    Korea … you suck. These folks don’t know who their best friends are.

  20. comment number 20 by: takeshima

    I have chuckeled more then a few times when reading a story about some hapless corean who hires some country bumpkins to do some work for him, and comes back to witness his employees sitting around fire bellies full of his jindo dog. A buch of sojo swilling red faced coreans bellie full of dogmeat.

    To the non-coreans who read this.. i guess its like when you have a pizza in the fridge and somebody else eats it. Sadly that is how dogs like jindos are felt about in corea. Just so that I dont offend any coreans, not all coreans are dog eaters, and for that matter some coreans like animals. If you walks down the streets in any city of corea, there is lots of people walking their dogs and there is lots of shit to prove it.

    http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200409/kt2004091722065612070.htm

    Naturally the dog owner claims that the Jindo dog is a ‘pedigree’… a jindo pedigree. That is an oxymoron. Jindo get big quick for quick eating. They also are known to have a sour temper, just like the corean mule and other corean animals.

    hahhaha…. hopeless…


  21. time spent playing video games statistics…

    Sorry, don’t agree 100% with you on this!…