Occidentalism
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North Korea tests

October 8th, 2006 . by Matt

Robert from the Marmots Hole will be following the test of the North Korean nuke very closely. Keep an eye on his site for detailed information.

This is going to be damaging to the Bush presidency. It is not hard to connect the adventurism in Iraq to the powerlessness of the US to stop the North Korean test.


57 Responses to “North Korea tests”

  1. comment number 1 by: ponta

    Abe made it clear yesterday that he also adopt Three Non-Nuclear Principles, But I think it was a bit hasty of Abe that he said that.; all he had to say was Japan had no intention to go nuclear as far as the region’s peace was kept. But anyway the principle is not a law, he might change the policy depending on the situation, and the point is not for Japan to go nuclear but for China to get serious about North Korea. And China is the key player.
    The US withdrawal, or its insinuation, has the similar effect on South Korea, it will get her to face the reality and think squarely about North Korea.
    As for the possibility of the test being a fake, as far as North Korea is saying it was real, and NK rejects the monitor, I think the situation does not change substantially.

  2. comment number 2 by: YoungRocco

    Darin:

    attitude removed

    Darin, you’ve essentially declared defeat. You have edited comments that are essential to my argument. If you can’t handle opinions that differ from yours, have the courage to declare it.

    Again, this is classic conflict of interest. You are deleting the content of a person who is debating with you. I mean, I can accept race-baiting, and sometimes even get a kick out of you guys trying to call me names, but

    you continue to embarrass yourself by engaging in censorhip.

    As for Garlic-Breath…congratulations. Looks like your whining to Darin and Matt have finally paid off.

    Censorship(sigh)….ah, well, c’est la vie.

    Cause truth be told, I like it when the opposing team has a handicap.

  3. comment number 3 by: YoungRocco

    Garlic Breath:

    attitude removed

    I read this quote of yours and found it interesting.

    Youngrocco has intentionally tried to annoy and antagonize others in the blog with rude, mean spirited comments and sarcasm. He has been politly been asked to stop at least a dozen times. He constantly hijacks the topic of the thread.

    attitude removed

    attitude removed

    attitude removed

  4. comment number 4 by: YoungRocco

    Garlic Breath:

    Ponta has been gracious enough to revive this discussion on its proper track. So I will address the rest of your concerns.

    Now the reason I focused on sanctions as the weakest part of your argument is because the rest are not even remotely feasible. Again, I thought it would be obvious exactly why you are wrong, but one can’t jump to conclusions.

    1. Freeze all money and aid from going to the North. Impose the harshest sanctions.

    I’ve already discredited this theory.

    Remove the empty suit and North Korean sympathizer Ban Ki Moon from cons iteration in leading the UN.

    Ban Ki Moon’s ability to deal with Nuclear rogue regimes has not been measured. This is simply more…what is the term? “trolling” on the part of Garlic-Breath.

    Remove all US troops from South Korea.

    This is a stated policy goal of North Korea. If the United States removes it troops from South Korea, the United States will have sent a message to its allies across the world that it cannot live up to its regional defense commitments. Furthermore, it would embolden Kim Jong Il further.

    In fact, this idea is such an essential element of North Korean policy, that I begin to wonder if Garlic Breath is not a North Korean sympathizer himself.

    Japan must go nuclear to deter North and South Korea.

    This idea fails on several grounds.

    1. From a North Korean perspective, Japan is already a nuclear power. U.S. nuclear missiles are already stationed in Japan and aimed at Pyongyang. It really doesn’t matter to Kim whether the finger on the trigger is Japanese or American. So, Japan having a nuclear arsenal will not deter North Korea.

    2. Japan is irrelevant in the North Korean calculus. North Korea’s main enemy has been the United States for well nigh 50 years. The United States! Kim Jong Il could care less if a nation with “self-defense forces” decides to play at being a nuclear power.

    3. The United States will not allow Japan to have its own nuclear arsenal. If the United States allows Japan to gain a nuclear capability, the United States will have signalled:

    A. That it no longer honors the spirit of the non-proliferation treaty.
    B. That it is unwilling to play the role of leader in Northeast Asia.
    C. That it is no longer willing to play a leading role in assuring security to its
    allies in the region.
    D. That U.S. hegemony is shrinking globally.

    None of these possibilities are acceptable from a U.S. perspective.

    Japan will not be allowed to gain nuclear weapons.

    Stop and reverse any investment in South Korea until they stop their policy of appeasement.

    Well, as Darin pointed out, Japan and North Korea do a brisk business in mushrooms!

    What’s also interesting is that Japan does a brisk business in shellfish with North Korea as well.

    What is the difference between between mushroom/shellfish sales and humanitarian aid?

    Well, Japan’s trade with North Korea provides it with tons of cold hard cash.

    Garlic Breath you need to take the time to do your research. Just who do you think is North Korea’s third largest trade partner?

    If sanctions are applied against South Korea, sanctions would also have to be imposed on China and Japan as well.

    Neither of these options are feasible. The United States needs to continue to foster Northeast Asia as a region of growth.

    There you have it.

    Garlic-Breath. I am more than willing to put past animosity aside in the interest of moving forward.

  5. comment number 5 by: polysics

    I hope you all have deep boots because we just stepped into a huge pile of propaganda bullshit. As you are all aware, N. Korea, under the ‘stalinist’ Kim Jong – Il regime, recently conducted a successful underground nuclear test on Monday. Emblazoned on the US State Department’s list of terrorist states, N. Korea faces further international sanctions as the US urges world banks to cease all intercourse and close all accounts associated with the regime. Naturally the US is pissed because the ink has barely dried on the denuclearization agreement signed by the US, China, Japan, Russia and of course, N. Korea. Yes, thats right, almost a year ago, the US and N. Korea entered an agreement to abandon all nuclear weapons and nuclear programs. In exchange, Washington agreed that the United States and North Korea would “respect each other’s sovereignty, exist peacefully together and take steps to normalize their relations.”

    So after an eventful year of missle tests and nuclear experiments, N. Korea raises the middle finger and directs it at the global community. Foolish, unprovoked, and brazen one would say? Hardly. What I didn’t mention was that 4 days after the denuclearization agreement was signed, the US and the US Treasury department imposed global sanctions on the N. Korean state, calling it a criminal state. Now just a goddam minute, didn’t both countries enter an agreement signed in good faith to work together? Did the US just treat the North Korean Government to a fabulous dinner only to climb out the bathroom window leaving them with bill? You’ll forgive me for my strange analogies, its 730 am and I need coffee.

    Oh, it gets better. I laughed when I read that the US entered into a denuclearization agreement. Naturally, the US has a very strange definition of denuclearization. Roughly translated, it means.. “I get to keep MY bombs while you get rid of yours and maybe we can try to get along while I keep my finger on the big red button, you friggin commie bastard.” I recently read in a Newsweek report that the Kim Jong-Il regime viewed theose early pre-emptive sanctions as a campaign to follow through with the State Department’s “regime change initiative” that has been gaining much favor in the Bush administration. Woah!!! If i knew that a nuclear powered nation, the ONLY nation with a history of using nuclear weapons in a war, was taking steps to starve my country in preparation to renounce my sovereignty, I, too would think to protect myself. Wouldn’t you? I mean, you STILL do believe in national self-determination don’t you? That, in a global community, the self-autonomy of a nation should be respected? What am I kidding, the US doesn’t believe that. Look at how they handled Iraq, Iran, Pakistan… Some would say that US actions had provoked the N. Korean nuclear test.

    According to BBC News, for the past 50 years, the US has conducted 1030 nuclear tests and retains over 10,000 nuclear weapons, 8000 of those are currently operational. Hardly worth flinching when our friends in asia conduct one of their own, right? US intelligence claims that N. Korea has 1-2 bombs functional and about 15 warheads according to the BBC. So the world’s bully gets to carry the big stick but when someone else wants to pick one up too, there’s hell to pay. US hypocrisy is synonymous with US politics.

    Even the N. Korean government scoffed at the division in the Bush administration; those that advocate regime change and those that wish to develop stable economic relations and encourage mutual understanding. Chief North Korean negotiator, Vice Foreign Minister Kim Gye Gwan said it most eloquently: “How can you expect us to return to negotiations when it’s clear your administration is paralyzed by divisions between those who hate us and those who want to negotiate seriously? We have concluded that your administration is dysfunctional.” (I laughed when i read this).

    Haven’t we learned anything yet? History has demonstrated that an arms race is the one race that has no winners, only losers.

    Well its 8am and its a bit too early for international politics, but I would really like to remind everyone to seek a press source that offers discussion from both sides of the table. That means to see past the one-sided reports on Yahoo and CNN.

  6. comment number 6 by: Darin

    You have edited comments that are essential to my argument. If you can’t handle opinions that differ from yours, have the courage to declare it.

    Why did you suddenly change your argument? Just moments ago you said in an UNEDITED comment that I had not edited actual parts of your argument, and now suddenly you say I have?

    this is censorship!

    .. or something like that: No this is not censorship, this is moderation. Your opinions, no matter how unfounded they are, remain untouched just like you admitted to yesterday.

    This is essentially sanctions with an ultimatum. Since you claim sanctions never work, I don’t have high expectations, but it must be tried before further actions are taken. The next step will be either you proving that I do not need to moderate you by removing your attitude, or further restrictions imposed to limit your ability to post period. There are even further steps that can be taken, but they will be discussed at a later time if and only if they become necessary.

  7. comment number 7 by: Darin

    And that’s all she wrote

    Matts note: YoungRocco is lying about things being deleted that are “essential” to his argument. All the things that were deleted by Darin were along the lines of this –

    You’re cute.

    Go get em, Tiger.

    How are you doing, guy?

    Our discussions will be much more fruitful if you take the time to do your homework.

    Have an enjoyable morning.

    I’m pleased to continue working with you.

    Just helping you out, Bro.

    Take Care

    You, Ponta, SQZ, Darin and Matthew have improved tremendously under my tutelage.

    Have a great morning.

    Sweet Dreams.

    If you need any more assisstance in firming up your argument, feel free to send me another post. My door is always open.

    I’ll tread lightly while I pick apart the flaws in your statement.

    Anytime you need more guidance, just send me a note.

    Glad I could help a valued friend.

    Enjoy the rest of your day.

    None of which could be considered “essential”, unless it was an essential component of his trolling. I will give YoungRocco a chance to withdraw his lie about having essential arguments deleted by Darin or I will completely ban him. There is no reason for me to tolerate a liar. YoungRocco, the next comment you write had better be a humble retraction of your lie, or I am sending you into internet oblivion.