Occidentalism
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President Roh’s speech on Dokdo

January 4th, 2007 . by Matt

Here is President Roh’s Dokdo speech taken from the Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade site. Besides the distorted history he describes (I am talking about the distorted history he is telling, not what he says the Japanese are doing), he even manages to deliver a few threats of violence. Enjoy!



46 Responses to “President Roh’s speech on Dokdo”

  1. comment number 1 by: MarkA

    Tokdo has got to be the greatest geopolitical red herring in history.

  2. comment number 2 by: Errol

    Noh Mu-hyeon has the most enormous mommy-boy ego. He was in nearly every frame. He’s a latter-day Lee Seung-man (The original Thief of Liancourt Rocks) whom Ike regarded as a pretentious dictatorial pseudo-king. Is there a more egregious self-promoter than Noh?

    Yes, the real bad bloke on the block who doesn’t get a guernsey on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade site King Kim Jong-il.

    We, Southern Prince and Northern King, welcome everyone with our gift to world peace. Paid for by the taxpayers of South Korea.

  3. comment number 3 by: Lyrt

    His bombastic yet cry-baby stance reminds me a lot of Abdelaziz Bouteflika of Algeria. Fortunately, Japan’s leaders are not as weak and traitorous as Chirac here.

  4. comment number 4 by: James

    Amazing how he manages to change clothing so many times during a single speech…

  5. comment number 5 by: ponta

    I see why Korean society want Gerry not to speak about Dokdo.
    His posts debunks what Roh was speaking about was a lie.

    If Korea was not cognizant of Dokdo, it is wrong to say that Japan invaded Korean territory by including Dokdo.

    And Gerry posts make it clear that Korea was not cognizant of Dokdo before 1905, which professor Lankov seems to agree.

    (In hindsight, after long observation on Korea, Gerry trusted Korea, challenged Korean nationalistic assumption, which Lankov wisely avoided— does that mean Lankov’s writing will be within Korean nationalism?—anyway I hope he will act wisely..)

    Therefore Korean claim is ungrounded.

    It is ironical the nation which other Asian people at the time saw as one body with Japan is using Japan’s past as a political weapon against Japan….
    Keep in mind that more than 300,000 young Korean men voluntarily applied for Japanese Imperial army when Tojou was a prime minister.

  6. comment number 6 by: helen

    Dear Mr. Gerry

    Hello. I am Hyun-jeong Hwang, an intern journalist of Joongang Daily.
    I want to conduct an interview with you regarding that the University had dismissed you because of Dokdo problem. I can be reached to the e-mail below.
    I look forward to an early reply.
    hwanghelen@korea.com

  7. comment number 7 by: Matt

    Hi Helen. I just wanted to point out that Gerry is not the writer of this post. There are three writers here – myself (Matt), Darin, and Gerry. Gerry primarily writes on the Dokdo issue. There is no editorial policy here, and we three do not necessarily agree with each other on every issue or post here. I do agree with Gerry’s opinion about Dokdo, though.

    I am sure Gerry will see your comment.

  8. comment number 8 by: sqz

    仮に、竹島(独島)が韓国の領土であるなら、韓国政府は合法かつ平和的な方法である「返還要求」をすべきでした。
    If Takeshima (Dokdo) is a Korean territory, the Korea should have done “the return demand” that was a legal and peaceful method.
    日本が沖縄の返還を要求したように。
    Korea should have done it same as Japan having demanded return of Okinawa.

    しかしながら現実には盗んだのです。
    However, in reality, Korea stole it.
    今でも韓国は合法で平和的な解決を拒絶しています。
    Korea still refuses “ICJ” that is a legal and peaceful solution.
    だから、彼の演説は偽善としか思えません。
    Therefore, I think that President Roh’s Dokdo speech is only hypocrisy.
    韓国がICJを拒否し続ける限り、韓国大統領がどんな演説をしても、日本人は誰も耳を傾けないでしょう。
    Even if the Korean President makes any kind of speech as far as Korea continues refusing ICJ, Japan will not agree.

  9. comment number 9 by: Brian

    Wow, what a site of hypocrisy. Funny how you people can complain about bias, illogical generalizations and the nationalism of Koreans, while exhibiting the exact same audacious behavior. Fight fire with fire, right? Talk about immaturity. Everyone that comes on this site is well aware of the misinformation and political devices you guys use to discredit Koreans, so shame on you. Without a doubt, many of you posters here lack the sensiility to realize that no matter how severe speicific Koreans’ behaviors may be, there is no justification for the biased, conniving, presumptuous and hate-inciting generalizations that are thrown about here without hesitation. I find it even more shameful that many of the racist-bordering comments are freely let loose under the pretext of objectivity, righteousness, and research, when clearly the level of ignorance is among the worst of them. Rather than help people see a reasonable perspective, you are just escalating the hate to new heights. As much as you guys believe that you are “changing” the world for the better good, take time to reflect upon Ghandi’s classic saying “An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.”

    Sorry, for many of us, you just earned some discredit and disrespect.

    Brian.

  10. comment number 10 by: Brian

    I also find it funny how comments are filtered the way they are. Is the site really what it appears, or is freedom of speach controlled for the purpose of your propaganda?

  11. comment number 11 by: Matt

    Wow, what a site of hypocrisy. Funny how you people can complain about bias, illogical generalizations and the nationalism of Koreans, while exhibiting the exact same audacious behavior. Fight fire with fire, right? Talk about immaturity. Everyone that comes on this site is well aware of the misinformation and political devices you guys use to discredit Koreans, so shame on you. Without a doubt, many of you posters here lack the sensiility to realize that no matter how severe speicific Koreans’ behaviors may be, there is no justification for the biased, conniving, presumptuous and hate-inciting generalizations that are thrown about here without hesitation. I find it even more shameful that many of the racist-bordering comments are freely let loose under the pretext of objectivity, righteousness, and research, when clearly the level of ignorance is among the worst of them. Rather than help people see a reasonable perspective, you are just escalating the hate to new heights. As much as you guys believe that you are “changing” the world for the better good, take time to reflect upon Ghandi’s classic saying “An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.”

    Brian, offer some specific examples of this hate and hypocrisy you describe. If you are able to do so, we can change it.

    I also find it funny how comments are filtered the way they are. Is the site really what it appears, or is freedom of speach controlled for the purpose of your propaganda?

    The first comment has to be approved. It is called a spam filter. It is designed to ensure that human beings are posting, not advertising robots. Once the first post is approved, subsequent posts appear freely. Do not jump to conclusions.

  12. comment number 12 by: ponta

    Brian
    Could you be more specific?—-otherwise you are the very one that just fits your description about “many posters”

  13. comment number 13 by: seouldout

    Why would a journalist at the Joongang Ilbo have a @korea.com address?

    Daesung Group own the Joongang?

  14. comment number 14 by: kabuto

    WOOW! This it the perfect site for Caucasions to praise japan!! NIPPON BANZAI!!! Wow very interesting information. Japan all the way! Let’s all praise and embrace Japan! They are like gods to me!! Well this will be a great place for me to drop by! What the hell is Dokdo? Takeshima sounds way cooler!! Koreans are so inferior to Japan. Japan is better in every damn way. Wow great job guys on analyzing and examining and proving this fact! Thank god i was looking for a site like this. Plus Koreans are soo emotional and make up stuff. Japan never did anything to Korea ever. Well Japan doesnt have to worry cuz Korea cant do anything. Korea is too small. What the hell are they gonna do? I dont know anything about politics or anything, but I just know Japan is the coolest country in the world!! Did you know Japanese ancestors were White?! COOOL!!! HAHA. Well good bye then! Don’t Worry I will be praising Japan as hard as i can guys! Were all in this together!!

  15. comment number 15 by: ponta

    Kabuto
    Stop acting stupid.
    Japanese are not pleased with your comments at all.
    Rather I find your comment very offensive.
    At the same time you are degrading Korean people.

    You are trying to make this site bad because journalists found Gerry on this blog.

  16. comment number 16 by: empraptor

    It is ironical the nation which other Asian people at the time saw as one body with Japan is using Japan’s past as a political weapon against Japan….
    Keep in mind that more than 300,000 young Korean men voluntarily applied for Japanese Imperial army when Tojou was a prime minister.

    You’d expect a people to fight for their country. Those young Korean men grew up as Japanese, did they not? I looked up Tojou – prime minister starting in 1941? That implies the young men (assuming they are under 30) you write of were mostly likely born subjects of Imperial Japan. The number of Korean volunteers in Imperial Japan’s army has been quoted many times here, but it seems every time the context implies they’re outsiders who had no interest or obligation in joining the army.

  17. comment number 17 by: mattrosencrance

    Look guys…

    Of course Korea has no historical claim to Dokdo.
    Of course they ran in there and took and subsequently made themselves rabidly delusional over it.
    Of course it’s been used since then as a chimerical bone of contention with which to deflect public attention away from the incompetence and failures of President Noh et al.

    But really, instead of crying that Dokdo is a symbol of national sovereignty that Japan is trying to take away, why don’t the Koreans admit that they invaded a defanged Japan and stopped with those insignificant islets?

    Oh wait?
    Because that’d make them look stupid and aggressive you say?
    Because they’re ‘grave pissers’ who’d only use strong rhetoric with a nation that doesn’t even have an army?
    Because 95% percent of the shame of their annexation has to do with the fact that they, like China, weren’t smart enough to modernize after contact with the West and that they allowed themselves to atrophy into incompetence and failed-nation status?

    Just guesses.

    But at the same time, possession is nine tenths of the law.

    You won’t be seeing the US giving California or Texas back to Mexico.
    If the Israelis do the world a favor and wipe out the misanthropes in Gaza, why should they occupy that land just to give it back?

    Koreans, have some balls. Admit you took it and stand your ground like men! You don’t need rationalizations, you need chutzpah!

    The victim routine only has so much currency and yours specifically never had much truth to it.

  18. comment number 18 by: GarlicBreath

    Brian Kim said:

    Funny how you people can complain about bias, illogical generalizations and the nationalism of Koreans, while exhibiting the exact same audacious behavior

    So you think that koreans are bias illlogical and extreme nationalistics. But where do others show their nationalism. Please show me where there is Japanese, American, English, French, Austrailian, Canadian etc nationalism on this blog?

    There is none. Brian Kim, you are lying. Quit lying and quit trolling with racist comments.

  19. comment number 19 by: ponta

    empraptor

    You’d expect a people to fight for their country. Those young Korean men grew up as Japanese, did they not? I looked up Tojou – prime minister starting in 1941? That implies the young men (assuming they are under 30) you write of were mostly likely born subjects of Imperial Japan. The number of Korean volunteers in Imperial Japan’s army has been quoted many times here,
    but it seems every time the context implies they’re outsiders who had no interest or obligation in joining the army.

    You are right.
    They had interest and probably they had a dream—some day they would become a Lieutenant General in the Imperial Japanese Army like Hong Sa-ik that led many Japanese soldiers. These 300,000 young men were Korean Japanese but they are the ones who laid the foundation for the new Korea as Koreans after the WWⅡ.
    After the war, Hong Sa-ik blamed himself for participating in the cruel war, and he was sentenced a war criminal, and hanged dead.

    After the war, Japanese blamed themselves for supporting, willinglly or unwillingly , for the cruel war.

    For some reasons, Koreans acts, as you point out, as if they had been outsiders or they had been just victims, blaming Japan, blaming only a few Koreans as a traitor, without blaming themselves.
    Youong Korean people are only taught at school that Korean were vicims and Koreans bravely fought against Japan during WWⅡ.
    I think that is a problem.

    As a result, some Koreans still blame young Japanese people at present as descendant of murderers.

    That is another problem.

    And Roh is reinforcing the impression that Koreans were outsiders or just victims and he is using this victimhood to win the territory that had never belongs to Korea

    That is still another problem.

  20. comment number 20 by: surabaya johnny

    Is this the same President Rho who referred to American GIs as “niggers’ (껌디) a couple of weeks ago?

  21. comment number 21 by: ponta

    Brian
    I think you misunderstand this site because of the commenter like JK,
    He is a Korean American but he is a racist.
    (make no mistake there are a lot of reasonable Korean American everywhere and on this blog.He uses racial slur against Australians and Japanese and he does not participate in the argument but speak on and on about things off the topic. He was warned many times, but he seems to think criticizing some aspects of Korean society is unforgivable and attacked the person who criticises some aspects of Korea in a irrational way instead of attacking the argument..(The same attitude native Koreans showed toward Gerry.) As a result he was banned.. I think he is a good guy but probably he was too tired or something. But for the good discussion I think Matt had to do it. Don’t worry as long as you keep the rational manner in the debate, as long as you stay on the topic, I don’t think people will be banned.
    I am looking forward to a health discussion.

  22. comment number 22 by: Brian

    Hey guys. I appreciate your reasonable responses to my comments, but, too me, they only appear to be rhetiorical devices. Have you ever been in an argument to get the “list some examples” argument? I have and I know how it works. Trust me, it’s not about evidence.

    I’m new to this site so I can’t say I know everything that goes on here. But I can confidently say that as a fresh perspective, it is clear that there is ALOT of bias, generalizations and nationalism here. I mean, just look at your posting titles, “Koreans are this, Koreans are that.” I’m sorry, but who are you to generalize 80 000 000 Koreans worldwide in such a manner? Moreover, to only report your one sided view with such biased and negative connotation REEKS nationalism and is hate-inciting. This is also a form of hate as we know that all ethnicities have faults and to only point out the bad without the good is equal to being prejudice in my mind. When looking at the comments sections, it is clear that the only purpose of your posts is to drum up anti-Korea support, escalate hate in those who already hold anti-Korean sentitments and reinforce unjustified stereotypes about Koreans. I presume this type of material gets your site alot of hits, thus you must ADMIT that you DO intend to make the site the way it is. Yes, it is your fault and your purpose to be prejudice. That is why I have a RIGHT to critisize you. Finally, what peeves me the most, personally, is the fact that you guys talk and post under the guise of objectivity. YOU ARE NOT OBJECTIVE. I want you guys to admit that. Nor can you claim to know or be experts about Korea, Korean people or culture. Unfortunately, the internet and media are not a source of reliable information: what you find is heavily based on your subjective searching. It’s funny how the mind will only see what it wants to see. I hope that you guys are at least aware of this.

    Yes, I am Korean, so I also cannot advocate complete objectivity, but believe me, I try. Therefore, I do not mind a site that tells the “other perspective.” BUT PLEASE DO NOT PASS TIHS SITE OFF AS SIMPLY THE “other perspetive” because such a site would at least ATTEMPT to prevent prejudice reporting, biased perspetive/research, negative connotations of wordings and unjustified generalizations.

    In my humble opinion, there are three areas that could change to make this site better and less prejudice and offensive to Koreans like me who do not DESERVE to be insulted because of the actions of others. First, YOU HAVE TO STOP generalizing. What is so hard about saying “these particular Koreans” or give specific names or groups? To say “Koreans this and that” would include me in the group and I’m sorry, I do not deserve such treatment. Second, why must your posting have such negative connotations. You might as well say “the EVIL Koreans have done this ONCE AGAIN.” I don’t think I need to get specific examples because you guys are smart enough to see this from all over the site. If the wording used less rhetoric and was portrayed in more of a mature and discussive manner, I believe many would be able to debate with you. Thirdly, why do you ONLY report the WORST of Korea? Also, how come you NEVER make any concessions? Didn’t your english teacher ever teach you that the key to a good essay writing is covering the WHOLE issue, which includes the other side of the coin? And finally, please stop pretending that this is an objective site. I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT THE TRUE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE IS, SO PLEASE STOP ACTING BEWILDERED WHEN PEOPLE LIKE ME RESPOND THE WAY WE DO. Be in my shoes coming into this site, how would you feel? I bet you would respond in the very same way. Be honest, THE REASON WHY YOU WRITE THE THINGS YOU DO is because that is what your AUDIENCE WANTS. ALL PEOPLE LIKE THE EXCITEMENT OF CONTROVERSY, but what angers me is that you deny what’s really going on here. If you could be more professional by saying it is in your OWN OPINION rather then state it like fact then there would be alot less misinformation on this site.

    Anyways, I do not mean to tell you how to run YOUR SITE. I am only voicing my opinion because you asked for it. The manner in which you asked for evidense shows the kind of self righteous attitude you have, which is funny because YOU KNOW THAT WHAT I’M SAYING IS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT TRUE. This whole site is EVIDENCE to what I’m talking about and I think SMART people like you already knew that.

    Thanks for reading, I am hopeful for better relations between Korea and Japan.

    Brian Park.

  23. comment number 23 by: Brian

    Garlic Breath said.

    So you think that koreans are bias illlogical and extreme nationalistics. But where do others show their nationalism. Please show me where there is Japanese, American, English, French, Austrailian, Canadian etc nationalism on this blog?

    There is none. Brian Kim, you are lying. Quit lying and quit trolling with racist comments.

    You are a good example of what I’m talking about. Please don’t jump to emotional conclusions. I never said that Koreans biased, illogical and nationalistic. I was stating that that is how this site is portraying them, which is funny because it is HYPOCRITCAL when looking at the purpose of this site! Second, it is obvious that there are pro Japanese, which also sometimes synonymous with anti-Korean sentiments, on this site. To say “there is none” without looking deeper is ignorant. Thridly, who are you to say that I’m lying and that I’m a troll?

    Matt, members like these are evidence to the type of site you’re running. There is not one substantial or even well thought thing said by him. I think we’re all smart enough to see that through this member’s pointed and emotional response to my humble opinion.

  24. comment number 24 by: ponta

    Brian
    Brian wrote

    it is clear that there is A LOT of bias, generalizations and nationalism here. I mean, just look at your posting titles, “Koreans are this, Koreans are that.”

    It is not as clear as you say. Look at the title of the tread under which you are commenting.President Roh’s speech on Dokdo
    In this regard, I am afraid you are making hasty generalization about this site.

    Brian wrote

    but who are you to generalize 80 000 000 Koreans worldwide in such a manner? Moreover, to only report your one sided view with such biased and negative connotation REEKS nationalism and is hate-inciting.

    I am afraid you missed what I wrote

    (make no mistake there are a lot of reasonable Korean American everywhere and on this blog

    Brian wrote

    That is why I have a RIGHT to criticize you.

    Not because of the reason you stated, but for any reason related to the topic you have right to criticise.
    Brian wrote

    Finally, what peeves me the most, personally, is the fact that you guys talk and post under the guise of objectivity. YOU ARE NOT OBJECTIVE.

    If that is just impression you got, that is okay. but I for one do not think people are infallible, that is why there is a comment section to discuss.
    You might not know it but under Gerry’s post we had more than 900 comments. It was not like people shouted “Korea sucks”! Oh no, Brian, on the contrary, the fact was that the debaters from Korean side shouted, “Japan sucks, you are liars etc”

    BUT PLEASE DO NOT PASS THIS SITE OFF AS SIMPLY THE “other perspective” because such a site would at least ATTEMPT to prevent prejudice reporting, biased perspective/research, negative connotations of wordings and unjustified generalizations.

    I for one do not think Koreans are inherently such and such, reading this blog.
    BTW Marmot holes admits that it is biased. Nobody is free from bias. No blog is free from bias. I guess the only way to keep balance is a quiet peaceful discussion.
    Brian wrote

    In my humble opinion, there are three areas that could change to make this site better and less prejudice and offensive to Koreans like me who do not DESERVE to be insulted because of the actions of others

    You are not insulted as far as you stay on the topic and argue reasonably.
    Brian wrote

    First, YOU HAVE TO STOP generalizing. What is so hard about saying “these particular Koreans” or give specific names or groups?

    That is a good idea. I make it rule to put “some” or “many” before “Koreans” when I criticise them. Likewise you might as well not generalize all the commenter.

    Brian wrote

    Second, why must your posting have such negative connotations.

    You might as well give a specific example.
    Brian wrote

    Thirdly, why do you ONLY report the WORST of Korea? Also, how come you NEVER make any concessions?

    Be specific, didn’t your English teacher ever teach you hat the key to a good essay writing is to give a concrete example?
    I think generally this blog deals with the topic that Koreans dare not to deal with.
    Brian wrote

    please stop pretending that this is an objective site

    That is just your impression. NYT pretends to be objective but for a mature readership, it is biased. So I guess it really depends on the readership.
    Brian wrote

    he manner in which you asked for evidence shows the kind of self righteous attitude you have, which is funny because YOU KNOW THAT WHAT I’M SAYING IS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT TRUE.

    I am afraid this is illogical inference.
    Suppose Tom wrote.

    Today is Monday and tomorrow is Tuesday.

    And you accuse Tom of writing racistic remark .Tom asks you to give him the evidence that Tom’s remark is racistic. Is Tom’s asking presuppose that what you are saying is at least somewhat true? I don’t think so.

    Anyway, I suggest you to join the discussion on the topic
    That way you can criticise the content of the thread as much as you want.
    You can show how this post “President Roh’s speech on Dokdo” makes generalization of Koreans and how it just report the worst part of Korea to fuel hatred toward Koreans.

    I am carefully keeping eye on the result of Gerry’s case. He was banned from talking about Dokdo on the net, and he was rejected by the university to renew the contract , most likely because he talked about Dokdo in his leisure time.
    I was surprised to read at Marmot that many expats expected it happen. They say Korean IS such a society.
    It might be the report of the Korea’s worst part. But what is wrong with reporting it. One man’s job is lost!

    Brian, I know there are many ethnic Koreans who is reasonable, rational, quiet, non-emotional. But at the same time, there are some Koreans, ethnic or native, who is vulgar, rude, racists, unable to discuss, making racistic comments. . You can find them on this blog and at the Marmot. They stand out. And in case of Korean society, in my impression, they tend to lead the society. In my humble opinion, they are the ones who is helping fueling anti-Koreans sentiments among non-Koreans. If Korean society is self-corrective, and there are counter movement towards such people , there is nothing to to say. But if they keep spitting others and few Koreans speak against it, I think non-Korean people have a say about it.

    Or are you the same kind of person as the nationalistic Koreans who pressured Gerry’s university to silence him?

    Thanks

    .

  25. comment number 25 by: tomato

    Somehow I have the feeling that those who attack “generalization” here do act very much in line with the “generalization” they’re attacking…

  26. comment number 26 by: surabaya johnny

    Could it be that little President Roh is a bigot?

    http://www.independent.co.kr/gomzip01/board.php?cate=issue&mode=view&id=indeold&no=115474

  27. comment number 27 by: GarlicBreath

    Brian Park.

    You said this site was full of nationalism. I asked you to prove it and you replied again and agin that this is a racist anti korea blog.

    Brian Park said:

    I can’t say I know everything that goes on here

    That is the first honest thing you have said.

    Brian Park you are ranting and raving and ordering the blog writers how to write. Its clear that you are too emotional and irrational about Korea to discuss things honestly. Please calm down, please stay on topic. Please give more then your clearly biased faulty opinion. I am trying to be polite to you, even though you have been rude, very very rude in fact, in your pointed comments to me. I will chalk that off to your culture. But in the future please try and act polite.

    Somehow you remind me of that stalking racist Korean troll named JK or BKF. hmmmmm

    Thank you.

  28. comment number 28 by: GarlicBreath

    Excuse me Brian Park, but back to the topic at hand. (Even if you think the world revolves around you and your ‘humble opinion’ on how everyone should think and act)

    I have heard that Roh is a simpleton, that hated American but I am still shocked that such a man can get elected to be prez of Korea. I guess anybody who screams “I hate american and Japan” loud enough can be prez of Korea.

  29. comment number 29 by: sqz

    彼は反日サイトにも同様に”YOU HAVE TO STOP”と発言できるのだろうか?
    多くの反日サイトを見て来たけど、俺はそんな韓国人を見たこと無いぞ。
    それどころかチョット親日的なだけでケンカしてたよなあ。(苦笑

  30. comment number 30 by: Matt

    彼は反日サイトにも同様に”YOU HAVE TO STOP”と発言できるのだろうか?多くの反日サイトを見て来たけど、俺はそんな韓国人を見たこと無いぞ。
    それどころかチョット親日的なだけでケンカしてたよなあ。(苦笑

    あと面白いなのは、「韓国人をステレオタイプするな」や「韓国人は皆はそうじゃない」など言うけども、本人こそがそのステレオタイプの典型となり、苦笑いします。自分のことに対して本当にわかっていないね。

  31. comment number 31 by: sqz

    Matt wrote

    あと面白いなのは、「韓国人をステレオタイプするな」や「韓国人は皆はそうじゃない」など言うけども、本人こそがそのステレオタイプの典型となり、苦笑いします。自分のことに対して本当にわかっていないね。

    Yes.
    わざわざ彼ら自身が身を犠牲にして、我々の主張を実証してくれるのです。
    そういう意味では、彼らに感謝すべきなのかもしれません。(苦笑

  32. comment number 32 by: tomato

    Gee…

    I watched the Roh’s Dokdo video posted by Matt above…this guy is surely Milosevic of the Far East. Or maybe comparable to Tudjman of Croatia. He is a mad ulrtanationalist leading his people to intolerance and hatred. The Koreans who take this bullshit are also crazy.

  33. comment number 33 by: Brian

    GarlicBreath.

    When i made my comment, I had no intention of talking about this topic. I merely used this post to voice my opinion on the impressions I have about this site, After my initial comment, Matt asked me to describe in further detail what I was talking and how things could change. That is why I continued to elaborate. I certainly was not addressing a rude person such as yourself who had the audacity to tell me I’m lying and call me a troll without even fully reading my post. But if you look carefully, I did respond to you in an earlier comment. To me, it appears that it is people like you who thrive off the Koraen bashing of this site. Does insulting Koreans and being prejudice really get you that excited? If so, you may need some counseling.

    PS: I’m am born in raised in Canada, so telling me that my INDIVIDUAL response to this site is typical of Korean culture is only your ignorance talking. I think you need to do some self reflection.

    BTW: Please tell me the nature of your name because in my opinion it is a reflection of your derogatory nature towards Koreans.

    Brian.

  34. comment number 34 by: Fantasy

    Brian said:

    I’m am born in raised in Canada, so telling me that my INDIVIDUAL response to this site is typical of Korean culture is only your ignorance talking. I think you need to do some self reflection.

    Well, fine, you are 100 pc Canadian, no doubt about that, at all. But the fact that you get so worked up about this site is still typical of Koreans or people of Korean extraction. Or do you think that Canadians of Ukrainian extraction would get all worked up about a site critical of Ukraine ?

    I myself am a German of Romanian extraction. I do not give a shit about Romania. Never have, never will…

  35. comment number 35 by: tomato

    I myself am a German of Romanian extraction. I do not give a shit about Romania. Never have, never will…

    Indeed…all that Matt is posting is what actully omes out of Korea…nothing more, nothing less…you can’t deny that ethnocentric and ultranationalist propaganda constitutes the mainstream of Korean politics and are integrated in their education system…if one recognizes the ugliness of the situation, why not try to change the source instead of attacking Matt who is only an observer?

  36. comment number 36 by: ponta

    Brian
    if you have no intention to talk about this topic, and if you have not read most of the posts on this blog, I wonder how you can talk about this blog in general.

    I suggest you to stay on the topic.
    You have every right to accuse matt or any commenter of his flawed arguments.

    I know there are rational Korean because here on this blog such Korean people came and discuss the issue reasonably.

    I know there are vulgar, fascistic, nationalistic Koreans because here on this blog I met such people.

  37. comment number 37 by: Ocebey

    Tomato…

    I watched the Roh’s Dokdo video posted by Matt above…this guy is surely Milosevic of the Far East.

    Aren”t you going over the top here??? I haven’t seen the guy order any ethnic cleansing here or at any other time…
    And althought he overexagerate and link dokdo/takeshima to the old japanese imperialism it’s not like there have been overly exagerations. Japan did like many other imperialist power back then act rashly, aggressively and commited many things that can be upsteting. Regardless of what so extreme-right japanese group may pretend it wasn’t a totaly benevolent power bent only on defending the poor asian people from the bad evil caucasians…
    Now what is strange is to get heated up over things so old, that have been totaly recognized by Japan (it’s not like there is much else to do so much time after the events), and most of all have absolutly nothing to do with this island problem.
    By now we know some south-koreans feel a need to link all this big rock problem with all of the past. And as if it wasn’t enough to exagerate this past while ignoring their own failling.
    It’s certainly a problem that this president feels the need to link this and then make some exagerations on some events that don’t matter all that much anymore (what the point of blamming the grandsons of the kids that had no control over their own country back then?) but to then decide to paint him as some sort of dangerous Milosevic could certainly be considered as an insult… And as bad as the guy may be is not deserved. (and it’s gonna feed the belief of koreans reading the post of this site that it’s overly biased)

    Also

    GarlicBreath said

    I have heard that Roh is a simpleton, that hated American but I am still shocked that such a man can get elected to be prez of Korea. I guess anybody who screams “I hate american and Japan” loud enough can be prez of Korea.

    Sadly because of the disastrous politic of Bush theses last years there isn’t about any country aside of the anglo-saxons ones that can get anyone elected if he’s perceived as too pro-american. And it even get to the point where anti-americanisn can make one win some substantial support. Hopefully it’ll stop in 2009.

  38. comment number 38 by: empraptor

    ponta,

    I suppose if someone else makes the same mistakes you do you’re no worse than they are.

  39. comment number 39 by: tomato

    Ocebey:

    Like you suggested, the current S Korean regime is deeply involved in making a list of “Japanese collaborators” (probably aimed to oust them from Korean society) and confiscating properties of decendants of past “collaborators” (the latter the S Korean government is directly involved). This is not a form of ethnic cleansing? The all-too-common claims about Korea being the originators of many well-known Japanese cultures from samurai to karate (Taek Won Do)…this is also one kind of cleansing going on, is it not? I’m just glad that there are no indegineous ethnic Japanese living on the peninsula today…

    Also, I fail to see the significance of the Bush regime’s contribution to the S Koreans acting so ultra-nationalisticly…unless you’re a fan of Free Speach TV?

  40. comment number 40 by: ponta

    empraptor

    I suppose if someone else makes the same mistakes you do you’re no worse than they are.

    I suppose if someone else makes the same mistakes you do, you are no better than they are.
    I also suppose if that someone else blame himself for his mistakes, but you don’t , you are worse than him and If you ignore your own mistakes, and keep blaming him the mistake he made, acting as if you had not made the mistakes, you are much worse than him and if you are trying to win something you have never owned by claiming you deserve it because he made the mistake, you didn’t, that is ….appalling.

  41. comment number 41 by: Errol

    I posted on the wrong thread. Here it is (slightly edited) again!

    Understanding the role of Noh Mu-hyeon and the incestuous triangle of incompetent professors, pseudo-yangban and emotional nationalists is essential to understanding the emotive responses to discussion of The Liancourt Rocks Issue.

    All three groups in the triangle benefit from fostering enmity against Japan as it helps keep the feudal system just the way it is (oppression of women,
    real estate speculation,
    oppression of the mass mediaand feudalistic treatment of women) in perpetuity and deflects attention from Noh Mu-hyeon and his pseudo-yangban lackeys’ economic ignorance and incompetence.

    If you criticise the incompetent professors (such as Gerry’s former employers have been for a lack of academic rigour) the emotional nationalists call out “racist!”

    If you criticise the pseudo-yangban for their greed and hagwonning their sons and daughters into “famous universities”, the emotional nationalists call out “racist!”.

    If you criticise the emotional nationalists for their evasion of factual evidence the incompetent professors call out “racist!”

    Korea is not suffering from a case of Hermit Kingdomitis it is suffering from a case of Vested Interest Feudalism.

    If one raises an issue such as King Kim Jong-il’s nuclear weapons megalomania the emotional nationalists call out “You know nothing of Korea it is none of your business!”

    There are three problems with this hermit-like covering of ears by the cosy triangle of incompetent professors, pseudo-yangban and emotional nationalists.

    1/ The nuclear weapons of a crazy man* are pointed at Japan – not at the pseudo-yangban who will makethemselves scarce before the bomb goes off – so it is Japan’s business.

    2/ Appeasement of crazy dictators has been tried before and it didn’t work.

    3/ The Dokdo Saga is just an example of the Pseudo-yangban Triumvirate at work trying to foster enmity to engineer an incident between Korea and Japan.

    * Starving 2 million people to death and incarcerating hundreds of thousands in concentration camps and myriad summary executions without trial are evidence of his craziness and lack of humanity.

  42. comment number 42 by: Matt

    Aren’’t you going over the top here??? I haven’t seen the guy order any ethnic cleansing here or at any other time…
    And althought he overexagerate and link dokdo/takeshima to the old japanese imperialism it’s not like there have been overly exagerations. Japan did like many other imperialist power back then act rashly, aggressively and commited many things that can be upsteting. Regardless of what so extreme-right japanese group may pretend it wasn’t a totaly benevolent power bent only on defending the poor asian people from the bad evil caucasians…

    Milosevic is probably a bad example because of his suggested association with ethnic clensing and civil war. However, this part of Roh’s speech –

    Physical provocations will be met with strong and firm responses. We will be incessant in our efforts to debunk the unjust actions of the Japanese Government before the world community and the Japanese people. We will continue to muster every measure of our national strength and diplomatic resources until the day when the Japanese Government remedies these wrongdoings.

    We will also undertake all other necessary measures. The nature of this matter is such that no compromise or surrender is possible, whatever the costs and sacrifices may be.

    Sounds quite threatening. Imagine the the reaction if the same kind of threats came from the Japanese side. As far as I know, even the extreme right wing in Japan do not suggest this kind of thing. A better association of this kind of speech is not Milosevic, but Kim Jong Il. In a normal country a speech like this from the leader of a neighboring would lead to a military buildup. Of course, Japan is not a normal country.

  43. comment number 43 by: GarlicBreath

    matt (and others) said to brian park:

    Brian, offer some specific examples of this hate and hypocrisy you describe. If you are able to do so, we can change it.

    Brian replied

    I appreciate your reasonable responses to my comments, but, too me, they only appear to be rhetiorical devices. Have you ever been in an argument to get the “list some examples” argument? I have and I know how it works. Trust me, it’s not about evidence.

    And you Brian park gave no specific examples. None. That is part of the reason I called you a liar.

    Then you had the gall to dictate how to write in this blog. How arrogant of you. You called your lecture, full of demands, your ‘humble opinion’.
    And you claimed that Matt asked you for advice. No Matt and others have asked, many times in fact, for you to show specific examples of proof of your accusations.

    Brian Park, I say to you again that the world doesn’t revolve around you.

    Here is an example of a lie:

    Brian Park said:
    I mean, just look at your posting titles, “Koreans are this, Koreans are that.”

    Show me one post titled “Koreans are_________” that is meant to display a negative sterotype.

  44. comment number 44 by: nh

    Completely different topic but if you can read Japanese well, maybe you can enjoy this – http://blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/archives/893681.html
    They are pretty interesting tribe, aren’t they…

  45. comment number 45 by: Ocebey

    Matt

    As far as I know, even the extreme right wing in Japan do not suggest this kind of thing.

    Actually i’ve seen just the other day a video where some politicians, writers (and even takeshi kitano in the middle… What’s he doing here?) and such have a discussion about takeshima and the reactions of Koreans… And there was this extreme-right guy (well my japanese girlfriend told me he was from the extreme-right) who was saying and insisting that war should be done to Koreans to give them a lesson and that it would revive the japanese soul…

    But well hopefully almost immediatly one of the participant said that it would be dangerous because with the help of Yon-sama all the middle aged japanese women would go and aid the koreans. As long as there is humour everything’s all right i guess.

    So the saying should be –> aside of the japanese extreme right nobody wishes war in Japan. (not that we care what the extreme right wishes anywhere)

    Tomato

    no this is still not ethnic cleansing… At most a strange and unfair way of dealing justice but still not ethnic cleansing. It doesn’t make them less wrong of doing so but we shouldn’t use theses worlds unneficiently less they lose their strenght.

  46. comment number 46 by: GarlicBreath

    A the text of madman speaking about Takeshima island:

    Special Message by President Roh Moo-hyun

    on Korea-Japan Relations

    My fellow Koreans,

    Dokdo is our land. It is not merely a piece of our land but one that carries historic significance as a clear testament to our forty years of affliction.

    Dokdo was the first territory of Korea to be seized in the course of Japan’s usurpation of the Korean Peninsula.

    The Russo-Japanese War was a war of aggression that Imperial Japan initiated to secure control over the Korean Peninsula.

    Under the pretext of carrying out the War, Japan sent its troops to Korea and occupied the Korean Peninsula. Japanese forces laid siege to Korean royal palaces, terrorized the royal court and the Government of Korea, thereby coercing them to sign the Korea-Japan Protocol, expropriated the land and people of Korea as it pleased, and established military facilities. Japan unilaterally proclaimed military rule over part of the Korean territory and eventually trampled on Korea’s sovereignty by taking away our fiscal and diplomatic rights.

    It was in the midst of this process that Japan forcefully merged Dokdo into its territory, installed an observation tower and electric cables, and utilized them in their war campaign. While continuing its military occupation of the Korean Peninsula, Japan deprived Korea of its sovereignty and secured colonial control over the Peninsula.

    Japan’s present claim to Dokdo is tantamount to maintaining a right to what it had once occupied during an imperialist war of aggression and, what is worse, to reasserting colonial territorial rights of bygone years. This is an act of negating the complete liberation and independence of Korea. Moreover, this amounts to contending the legitimacy of Japan’s criminal history of waging wars of aggression and annihilation as well as forty years of exploitation, torture, imprisonment, forced labor, and even sexual slavery. This cannot be tolerated by any means.

    For Koreans, Dokdo is a symbol of the complete recovery of sovereignty. Along with visits by Japanese leaders to the Yaskuni Shrine and Japanese history textbooks, Dokdo is a touchstone of the extent to which Japan recognizes its past history as well as of its commitment to the future of Korea-Japan relations and peace in East Asia.

    As long as Japan continues to glorify it’s past wrongs and claim rights based on such history, friendly relations between Korea and Japan cannot stand. So long as Japan clings to these issues, we will be unable to trust any of its rhetorical commitment to the future of Korea-Japan relations and peace in East Asia. No measure of economic stake or cultural exchange will help break down this barrier.

    Boundaries between the exclusive economic zones (EEZ) of Korea and Japan are yet to be firmly established. This is due to Japan’s territorial claim to Dokdo and the insistence on basing its EEZ on Dokdo.

    The issue of naming the underwater geological formations of the East Sea is intertwined with that of the EEZ. Even while the two nations are unable to reach a consensus on the EEZ boundary, Japan has unjustly and preemptively designated a name for underwater geological formations within our own maritime zone. Seeking to rectify the situation is our legitimate right.

    Thus, so long as Japan does not give up its unjust claims regarding the underwater geological formations of the East Sea, addressing the EEZ becomes a matter that can brook no further delay. Consequently, the matter of Dokdo can no longer be dealt with through quiet responses.

    While there are, to be sure, certain concerns about playing into Japan’s intent to turn Dokdo into a disputed area, Dokdo for us is not merely a matter pertaining to territorial rights over tiny islets but is emblematic of bringing closure to an unjust chapter in our history with Japan and of the full consolidation of Korea’s sovereignty. It is a matter that calls for a public and dignified response.

    My fellow Koreans,

    The government will revisit the entirety of our response with regard to the matter of Dokdo. Together with the distortion of Japanese history textbooks and visits to the Yasukuni shrine, the matter of Dokdo will be dealt with head on. It will be reviewed in the context of rectifying the historical record between Korea and Japan and historical awareness building, our history of self-reliance and independence, and the safeguarding of our sovereignty.

    Physical provocations will be met with strong and firm responses. We will be incessant in our efforts to debunk the unjust actions of the Japanese Government before the world community and the Japanese people. We will continue to muster every measure of our national strength and diplomatic resources until the day when the Japanese Government remedies these wrongdoings.

    We will also undertake all other necessary measures. The nature of this matter is such that no compromise or surrender is possible, whatever the costs and sacrifices may be.

    It is my hope that the series of actions assumed by the Japanese Government, which offend Korea’s history and detract from the dignity of the Korean people, are not grounded in the general perception of the Japanese people. For I believe the Japanese people are well aware of the truth that actions jeopardizing friendly relations between Korea and Japan as well as peace in East Asia are by no means righteous or in Japan’s own interests. This is why we must refrain from emotional responses and keep our calm.

    I would like to request earnestly the following of the people and leaders of Japan.

    We are no longer demanding renewed apologies. We are simply calling for actions that would do justice to the apologies which have been made repeatedly. We are asking for the cessation of actions seeking to glorify or legitimize its unjust history, which affront Korea’s sovereignty and the dignity of its people. We are not demanding any special treatment for Korea but actions that keep with the universal values and standards of the international community. We are asking for honesty and humility in the face of historical truth and the conscience of humanity.

    It is when Japan comports itself in conformity with these standards towards its neighbors and the international community as well that it will finally stand as a nation of maturity that befits its economic size and as a nation that can assume a leading role in the international community.

    My fellow Koreans,

    Despite the painful history wrought by colonial rule, we have been continuously seeking to write a new history of good neighborly relations and amity with Japan. Under the shared aspirations of democracy and market economy, both countries have made strides towards the goals of mutual benefit, equality, peace and prosperity and have achieved vast developments in our relationship.

    Both countries must now redouble our efforts to ensure a lasting commitment to these shared aspirations and goals. We must move forward beyond bilateral relations and contribute jointly to the peace and prosperity not only in Northeast Asia but also throughout the world. An honest recognition and settlement of history as well as trust in our mutual respect for each other’s sovereignty is essential to this task.

    Japan should stand tall by boldly divesting itself of the dark chapter in its history of imperialist aggressions. We are awaiting Japan’s determination for peace and prosperity in Northeast Asia of the 21st century and, furthermore, peace in the world.

    Thank you.

    (April 25, 2006)