Occidentalism
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“The Sea That Shall Not Be Named”?

May 10th, 2007 . by Gerry-Bevers

Yonhap News is reporting that David Wynford, the chairman of the general meeting of the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO), has proposed to Japan and Korea that the name of sea between the two countries be completely omitted in the fourth edition of the IHO oceanographic chart. Mr Wynford then requested that Seoul, Pyongyang, and Tokyo submit their official positions on his proposal after studying it on their own.

I wonder how long Japan will study the goofball proposal before telling Mr. Wynford to shove it up his butt?

Yonhap: “IHO proposes excluding name of waters between Korea, Japan on map”


49 Responses to ““The Sea That Shall Not Be Named”?”

  1. comment number 1 by: helical

    So I guess we would be calling it The Sea Formerly Known As The Sea Of Japan if this proposal goes through?

  2. comment number 2 by: GarlicBreath

    what a worthless asshole.

  3. comment number 3 by: Kenzo

    I seriously wonder if he’s not taking the piss here.

  4. comment number 4 by: Ken

    According to NAVER’s article which seems deleted, Korean representatives were waiting for other country’s representatives in front of the building every morning and at the doors of rest rooms and smoking rooms any time.
    By the way, there is clearly indicated ‘Mer de Japon’ in the map which they exibited to claim Dokto was their territory.
    http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20040115000080
    Suicide explosion!

  5. comment number 5 by: Gerry-Bevers

    Ken,

    Not only does the 1894 map you linked to show the sea labeled as “Mer de Japon,” the island on the map it claims to be “Dokdo” is actually Ulleungdo and its neighboring island of Jukdo. If it is not Ulleungdo, then where is Ulleungdo on the map?

  6. comment number 6 by: egg

    I think exploring new place or finding new species and naming it “Korean ○○” or “Chosen ××” would be a bit more constructive and contributing against the world. Rewiting and redrawing the maps and documents that exists now seems (to me) plenty much waste of time and money. I wonder who is going to shoulder the costs.

  7. comment number 7 by: goda

    At all, IOC surrendered for the paranoiac stalking,,, oh typing mistake, sorry,,,,considerate elegant grace-full behavior of South Korea.

    They are surely proud.

    I can do nothing but smile wryly.

  8. comment number 8 by: goda

    correct TO IHO

  9. comment number 9 by: T_K

    I’m getting tired of Westerners pussyfooting around these “sensitive” issues. What has happened? Why can’t we recognise a manufactured controversy when we see one?


  10. […] “The Sea That Shall Not Be Named”? » Occidentalism David Wynford, the chairman of the general meeting of the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO), has proposed to Japan and Korea that the name of sea between the two countries be completely omitted […]

  11. comment number 11 by: GarlicBreath

    To all the blog readers. I urge you to write Dr David Wynford Williams an email urging him to reverse his drastic and illogical experement.

    [email protected]

    I would also like to put forth a new name for that body of land beteeen China and Japan in East Asia. It should be called ho-rea.

  12. comment number 12 by: GarlicBreath

    He may also want to know about Ho-rean culinary tips.

  13. comment number 13 by: egg

    GarlicBreath
    I googled about it but right now, only Sankei (among Japanese media) seems to report about the issue and it is only quoting Korean media. I cannot get the whole perspective. What has happened? And do you think Korean source reliable?
    By the way, are you suggesting to act like Vank? Isn`t it better to wait until the Japanese government announces something?

  14. comment number 14 by: GarlicBreath

    Thanks for asking Egg.

    Korean sources (north, south and Kyopo) are not usually reliable. Koreans will lie about anything as long as meets their goals.

    I only suggest people tell the truth about Korea.

  15. comment number 15 by: egg

    GarlicBreath
    So sorry if my words sounded like a teacher. No intention of that but please forgive me if it was.

  16. comment number 16 by: GarlicBreath

    This made me laugh:

    In the meantime, foreign delegations expressed their discomfort in that they have received an average of 200 letters insisting on the legitimacy of the name East Sea. They said, “We were surprised by Korea’s big interest in this issue and its aggressive attitude, but some delegations regarded the letters as spam mail, and that could backfire.”

  17. comment number 17 by: GarlicBreath

    After reading the Korean Dong Ilbo, I think I agree with you Egg. Spamming the good doctor would just lower the Japanese position to the Koreas level.

  18. comment number 18 by: Ken

    Gerry,
    Thanks for your reply.
    Jukdo is the island where bamboos had grown wild and so was named such, Chikuto in Japanese pronucation, isn’t it?
    The other pronunciation of the same Chinese characters is Takeshima, which is confused by Koreans.
    By the way, Korean delegation of IHO was said to incur antipathy from other country’s delegations that were annoyed at 200 e-mails a day from Korean address.

  19. comment number 19 by: Kaneganese

    Mr. Shiozaki, the Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japan held a press conference and told that the proposal by chairman of the IHO was not decided.
    「日本海呼称 議長提案の「不表記案」表決されず」

  20. comment number 20 by: goda

    Kaneganese.
    Thanks for your info.
    I am relieved for a moment.

  21. comment number 21 by: kteen

    GarlicBreath,
    If the chairman of the general meeting of the IHO is a worthless asshole, what does that make you? YOU 찌찔이
    And in the movie ‘The Departed’, they had some nice vocabulary that I’d like to try using on somebody. Will you take the honor to be that ‘somebody’?

    Or to keep it more simply(in case your cockroach brain might not be able to understand what I said): ‘F**K YOU’

  22. comment number 22 by: kjeff

    kteen,
    You’re not a Japanese, are you?

  23. comment number 23 by: Thormodr

    If the chairman of the general meeting of the IHO is a worthless asshole, what does that make you? YOU 찌찔이
    And in the movie ‘The Departed’, they had some nice vocabulary that I’d like to try using on somebody. Will you take the honor to be that ’somebody’?
    Or to keep it more simply(in case your cockroach brain might not be able to understand what I said): ‘F**K YOU’

    Ummm…wow

    Here. This might help you.

  24. comment number 24 by: Thormodr

    http://www.shambles.net/pages/learning/Psychol/anger/

  25. comment number 25 by: ponta

    Korea used to call the sea “the sea of Japan”
    before the annexation.

    http://ameblo.jp/nidanosuke/entry-10033324790.html

    Scroll down, you can see Korean official reports and textbook of Korean geography before the annexation.

  26. comment number 26 by: GarlicBreath

    Koreans should not be rewarded for their childish petulance

    Dr David Wynford Williams should be fired.

  27. comment number 27 by: bad_moon_rising

    “The Sea That Shall Not Be Named”?

    Not quite. The Sea of Japan will continue to be called the Sea of Japan.

    The International Hydrographic Organization, faced with opposition from Tokyo, has put off voting on its chairman’s proposal to delete the “Sea of Japan” appellation from an IHO chart for the body of water that South Korea wants called “East Sea,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuhisa Shiozaki said Friday.

    See IHO answer: no name for Sea of Japan

  28. comment number 28 by: T_K

    kteen,
    Perhaps “worthless asshole” is too much. He is, however, either spineless, gullible or scared.

  29. comment number 29 by: goda

    ponta,

    Thanks for your info, and also for 大韓ニダの介

    Surely,
    The name “The Sea of Japan”(日本海) was used in 대한지지(大韓地志)(1899), Korean Government’s report and newspaper.

    Then, we can doubtlessly judge that the insistence of South Korea is a flat-out lie.

    Of cause, South Korean Government knows this facts.

    So I can openly call her concerning this issue as “Liar” and “Childish selfishness”.

  30. comment number 30 by: kjeff

    GarlicBrat,

    Koreans should not be rewarded for their childish petulance. Dr David Wynford Williams should be fired.

    Hahahaha…hahaha…the irony…
    Gotta hand it to VANK…Persistence pays off. It’s interesting to see the two issues(Dokdo and Sea of Japan) together in term of maintaining the status quo.
    .
    “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet”

  31. comment number 31 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    GarlicBrat,

    Sorry, typo…

  32. comment number 32 by: GarlicBreath

    KoreanJeff:

    Persistence pays off.

    KAKAKAK.. the irony..

    Yep, like that old Koreans saying: “Every tree falls down within ten times of chopping”.

    No wonder you were so sympathetic to that Korean stalking murderer Cho seoung hui.

    A sick culture. Amazing how North, South, and Kyopo all pretty much think the same.

  33. comment number 33 by: GarlicBreath

    The Koreans (such as VANK, all Koraen newspapers, educators, politicans etc) use trickery and deceit to acheve their ends.

    For example:

    Using a proper name for the body of water between the Korean peninsula and the Japanese archipelago is not simply a question of changing the name of a geographical feature. It is rather a part of national effort by the Korean people to erase the legacy of their colonial past and to redress the unfairness that has resulted from it

    .

    By declairing the Sea of Japan naming as legacy of colonialism they hope to get an emotional responce. I mean who is in favor of colonialism?

    The BS gets thick when the Korean link Sea of Japan-> colonialism -> Comfort whores.

    Naturally they do.

  34. comment number 34 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    KAKAKAK.. the irony..

    I’m not sure wherein the irony lies.

    Yep, like that old Koreans saying: “Every tree falls down within ten times of chopping”.

    Argh…Hmmm…Nope, still don’t get it…(BTW, don’t know the full story, but a reporter phones a celebrity every day to get an interview is called trying to do her job.)

    No wonder you were so sympathetic to that Korean stalking murderer Cho seoung hui. A sick culture. Amazing how North, South, and Kyopo all pretty much think the same.

    I’ll skip this one…too easy…

    The Koreans (such as VANK, all Koraen newspapers, educators, politicans etc) use trickery and deceit to acheve their ends. By declairing the Sea of Japan naming as legacy of colonialism they hope to get an emotional responce. The BS gets thick when the Korean link Sea of Japan-> colonialism -> Comfort whores.

    It’s called LOBBYing. As the saying goes, don’t get mad…get even. Don’t tell me that you don’t have the resource… Argh…you don’t want to stoop to our level…

    I mean who is in favor of colonialism?

    Wait…hmmm…you’re not one of those who believes that Japan actually ‘helped’ Korea? Hmmm…
    How many spankings was that?

  35. comment number 35 by: HanComplex

    By the way, there is clearly indicated ‘Mer de Japon’ in the map which they exibited to claim Dokto was their territory.
    http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20040115000080

    Amazing. Koreans must be dumb as bricks to not even double-check the documents they would present as evidence to back up their claims. I guess that should just gauge the level of their intelligence right there.

    I’ve never heard of a culture so emotionally obsessed with the past and who cares more of saving face than facing the hard facts–to the point of blaming others–than Korea. No wonder they continue and will remain to be a backward, underdeveloped culture where its people continue to immigrate and export whores overseas. Then again, maybe that’s what Koreans want their race to be renowned for.

  36. comment number 36 by: GarlicBreath

    Good points HansComplex. Koreans have anmesia about anything but how much they suffered because of “evil japan”.

    Don’t forget, once Korea exports her people. Those same people HATE their adopted land with all their heart. This is not necessarly true for all Kyopos but just look at the Korean blogs and read what Kyops say about their adopted nation. I have pointed this out many times.

    (this is where Koreanjeff comes in and reminds everyone how much worse the USA is)

  37. comment number 37 by: toadface

    This is a small victory for Korea and hopefully in the future both Japan and Korea can agree on a name that more accurately reflects the region as whole. We can see Japan’s influence over the region is waning and Tokyo is having “shrinking pains”

    Historically speaking this body of water has frequently been called the “Sea of Chosun” on many maps made by Japan. It was only through Japan’s closer ties with the Western world that Westerners coined the name “Sea of Japan”

    If you look here on Hanmaumy’s board (page 2) you can see some examples of Western/Japanese maps that show this sea has been called the Sea of Chosun. There are many more on the link he provided
    http://dokdo.naezip.net/board.html

    Renaming the Sea of Japan is simply an indicator that the balance of power in Northeast Asia is shifting away from Japan. ROK, DPRK China are just starting to flex their diplomatic muscle. This is just the beginning.

    Japan’s foreign policy on dealing with past issues is slowly alienating her from her neighbours. At the same time these neighbour countries wield more economic and military power every day. Yet Japan still pretends she is the boss of Asia.

    Japan is like the big bully everyone knew in elementary school. Then two years later the other kids grew up and got bigger and stronger and………..

  38. comment number 38 by: helical

    toadface,
    …so national power is judged by the ability to force the change of an internationally recognized name in widespread use against all rational and pragmatic reasons for not changing?
    .
    I’m not so sure the rest of the world works like that, but hey, it could be just me.

  39. comment number 39 by: pacifist

    I think the Japanese Archipelago faces the whole Sea of Japan because the archipelago made the sea cutting off from the Pacific Ocean.
    .
    On the other hand, the Korean Peninsula faces only the west side of the Sea of Japan, while the rest was faced by the Maritime Province of Siberia.
    .
    The Korean name, East Sea, may indicate only the west part of the Sea of Japan.
    Geographically, the Sea of Japan is the right name and it has been used far before the annexation of Korea.
    .
    Korean claim is an extraordinary false accusation.
    The problem is that the Korean people don’t know the truth or their society (including their government, media, and school) don’t let their people know the truth.

  40. comment number 40 by: toadface

    Not at all Helical. This whole dispute is about a country having a say on naming the waters that border her nation. This was something that the Koreas didn’t have decades ago. You are saying Korea should not have any input on naming the sea within her territorial limits. This is wrong.

    Pacifist, Koreans simply want the sea named anything other than the “Sea of Japan” not just “East Sea” There was a time when indeed this sea was Japan’s. But it isn’t now.
    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/warzonemap2.jpg

    Japanese criticize Koreans and call them radical when this issue is discussed. A week later Japanese they start their own fierce lobby campaign to counter the Korean efforts.

    What’s the big deal, anyway it’s both country’s water, right? It’s not like Japan get’s copyright revenue everytime someone uses the name “Sea of Japan”
    Rename the stupid pond already……..

  41. comment number 41 by: manfordr

    Toadface:

    “This is a small victory for Korea”

    what victory, didn’t you get the memo???

    “”Our country was opposed to a vote during today’s session from the standpoint that the Sea of Japan is the only name which is internationally established. As a result, the chairman’s proposal was not put to a vote,” Shiozaki told reporters.”

    and i LOL’ed out loud when you said, “ROK, DPRK China are just starting to flex their diplomatic muscle. This is just the beginning.”

    as if anyone besides the gob smacked ROK’s give any credence to the DPRK’s, “diplomatic muscle.”

  42. comment number 42 by: helical

    You are saying Korea should not have any input on naming the sea within her territorial limits. This is wrong.

    Sure, it may possibly be wrong IF the world was getting together for the first time to decide the name of a body of water that was previously unknown or unrecognized by most of the world, and only Korea was not invited. Then I might slightly be more inclined to feel sympathy toward the Korean side of the argument.
    But this is obviously not the case, since the name was settled on without the influence of Japan more than a century ago. If you are still going to argue that Japan lobbied the world to call the sea the Sea of Japan, please show me at least a couple specific examples of this so-called influence.
    .

    There was a time when indeed this sea was Japan’s. But it isn’t now.

    Why do you refuse to see the point that being named after something does not necessarily mean the original entity exerting dominance over the named item?
    I believe this to have been mentioned about a million and a half times already, so I’ll just throw out the name “Gulf of Mexico” for now.
    .
    By the way, nobody in Japan is up in arms because they got stuck with the obviously non-Japanese sounding name “Japan” which originated when Marco Polo botched transcribing whatever Japan was called by the Chinese at the time.
    The western most part of the Honshu island is called the Chūgoku region which, where Chūgoku is also what China is called in Japan, but guess what…nobody is trying to exterminate that name despite being regional rivals.
    It’s just a name, and to try to change a name that everyone already recognizes and accepts is nothing but a big hassle. That’s the pragmatic argument.
    .
    Alright, now suppose you have a large coastline A.
    From where you are standing, imagine there is a peninsula B off to your left-hand.
    There is also a string of islands C which arcs and encompasses a certain area of water along the coastline.
    If you are going to decide on the name for that body of water defined by and only by the presence of C, I and most rational thinking people would name it after C. (Sea of C … no pun intended) What Korea is doing is trying to tell everyone to call it something like the Right-hand sea because it is to the right of B, which is clearly self-centered and irrelevant once you step off the peninsula B.
    That was the rational reason.

    Japanese criticize Koreans and call them radical when this issue is discussed. A week later Japanese they start their own fierce lobby campaign to counter the Korean efforts.

    Because asking the world to change the name because of the name “Japan” is a big slap in the face for Japan. Not to mention immature as hell.
    I just made this up now, but it’s about on the same level as feminists first arguing we should change all reference to the Man in the Moon as the Person in the Moon because “Man” is obviously sexist, and then (never managing to be consistent) later proposing “Face in the Moon” or outright “Woman in the Moon” because obviously the Man was born from a Woman, so the Woman has a right to the name…. something like that. I’m new to this pull-stuff-out-of-the-ass game.
    Anyways, unless everyone does care at all, most people who are either offended or think this is a retarded idea would start a campaign on principle to not change the name, even if they think it is a big waste of time.

    What’s the big deal, anyway it’s both country’s water, right? It’s not like Japan get’s copyright revenue everytime someone uses the name “Sea of Japan”
    Rename the stupid pond already……..

    Sure, it’s not a big deal. So why not let it be as it is? It’s not like Korea loses money every time someones uses the name Sea of Japan either, right?

  43. comment number 43 by: HanComplex

    Don’t forget, once Korea exports her people. Those same people HATE their adopted land with all their heart. This is not necessarly true for all Kyopos but just look at the Korean blogs and read what Kyops say about their adopted nation. I have pointed this out many times.

    Especially for the US, I think they should be stricter in allowing Koreans in. The USA seems to be their number one choice of destination, whether they be whores or just Koreans escaping their country. They should put more restrictions on Koreans, lest we get another Robert Kim, Cho Seung-Hui, or one of those many Korean prostitutes.

    (this is where Koreanjeff comes in and reminds everyone how much worse the USA is)

    LOL I was actually waiting for his typically laughable response. I’m still waiting. I’m really surprised they let him in the country in the first place. They should’ve let him rot in Korea.

  44. comment number 44 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    (this is where Koreanjeff comes in and reminds everyone how much worse the USA is)

    Back that up!!! Please!!!
    HanComplex,

    LOL I was actually waiting for his typically laughable response. I’m still waiting. They should’ve let him rot in Korea.

    Your wait is over. BTW, I’ve never lived in Korea.

    I’m really surprised they let him in the country in the first place.

    What do you know about me? I’m challenging you to explain this in a non-racist way…

    Especially for the US, I think they should be stricter in allowing Koreans in. The USA seems to be their number one choice of destination, whether they be whores or just Koreans escaping their country. They should put more restrictions on Koreans, lest we get another Robert Kim, Cho Seung-Hui, or one of those many Korean prostitutes.

    And you’re basing a policy that will effect hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on the acts of misguided few? And, you seem to have a rather unhealthy obsession with Robert Kim by the way.

  45. comment number 45 by: pacifist

    toadface,
    .

    Pacifist, Koreans simply want the sea named anything other than the “Sea of Japan” not just “East Sea” There was a time when indeed this sea was Japan’s. But it isn’t now.

    .
    I am surprised by your ignorance. Was the sea owned by Japan? When and how?
    Who did name the sea? Do you think it was Japan herself?
    .
    The name of the sea has been most frequently used since the early 19th century.
    (In the UK, since Arrowsmith 1801 and Wilkinson’s General Atlas of the World… ; Robert Wilkinson 1809)
    .
    Korea is claiming that the name was used after the early 20th century but it is false.
    Please look at the website of MOFE here:
    http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/maritime/japan/study-l1.html
    As I mentioned above, the name of Sea of Japan is the most frequently used name since the early 19th century in the UK.

    The same goes in France too. Look at the website below.
    http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/maritime/japan/study-2.html

    .

    The names of sea doesn’t indicate its owner, as someone pointed out, the Gulf of Mexico is the sea of south part of USA and Gulf of California (Gulfo de California) is located in Mexico, not Californai USA.

  46. comment number 46 by: pacifist

    Correction:
    MOFE should be MOFA.
    Sorry.

  47. comment number 47 by: General Tiger

    I can’t believe this merits a seperate thread.

  48. comment number 48 by: pacifist

    I don’t know about the merits you mentioned, but to discuss about the matter will be good for the future relation of the two countries.
    I have been waiting for toadface’s answer but he seems to be impossible to give me an answer (about my posting #45).

  49. comment number 49 by: Ken

    Conclusion: Korean media’s fabrication has been revealed again.
    http://www.enjoykorea.jp/tbbs/read.php?board_id=teconomy&nid=2956970