Occidentalism
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The Uneasy Sleep

August 19th, 2006 . by Darin

An editorial about Yasukuni and all things relevant by George F. Will on the Washingon Post’s site. HT to Richard of TPD.

Leftist ideology causes South Korea’s regime to cultivate victimhood and resentment of a Japan imagined to have expansionism in its national DNA. The choice by China’s regime is more interesting. Marxism is bankrupt and causes cognitive dissonance as China pursues economic growth by markedly un-Marxist means. So China’s regime, needing a new source of legitimacy, seeks it in memories of resistance to Japanese imperialism.

Actually, most of China’s resistance was by Chiang Kai-shek’s forces, Mao’s enemies. And Mao, to whom there is a sort of secular shrine in Beijing, killed millions more Chinese than even Japan’s brutal occupiers did.

The museum adjacent to Yasukuni says “The Greater East Asian War” began because, when the New Deal failed to banish the Depression, “the only option open to Roosevelt . . . was to use embargoes to force resource-poor Japan into war. The U.S. economy made a complete recovery once the Americans entered the war.” That is disgracefully meretricious — and familiar. For years a small but vocal cadre of Americans — anti-FDR zealots — said approximately that. But neither Koizumi nor Abe includes the museum in his visits to the shrine.

Things are so bad that, speaking about the incessant incursions by Chinese submarines and military aircraft into Japanese sea and air spaces, a senior Japanese official casually made the startling suggestion that China’s regime, like Japan’s regime before the war, does not fully control its military.

The controversy about Yasukuni should not mystify Americans. With their comparatively minor but still acrimonious arguments about displays of Confederate flags, Americans know how contentious the politics of national memory can be, and they understand the problem of honoring war dead without necessarily honoring the cause for which they died.

Emphasis mine.


32 Responses to “The Uneasy Sleep”

  1. comment number 1 by: rayz

    The museum adjacent to Yasukuni says “The Greater East Asian War” began because, when the New Deal failed to banish the Depression, “the only option open to Roosevelt . . . was to use embargoes to force resource-poor Japan into war.

    Wasn’t the United States out of the recession before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. The US embargos was more of a way of stopping the Japanese war machinese from encroaching further into china, not helping the US economy. The US supplied the Russians and British before Pearl Harbor and this brought the US out of recession.

  2. comment number 2 by: master beta

    rayz, the embargo this article refers to was initiated in response to Japan`s occupation of Indochina. Also, the United States was facing a depression, not a recession. Nice try at acting smart though.

    As for Darin, because he has absolutely failed to add any unique insights or comments to this post, I cannot criticize him today. Nothing he has placed in bold is anything groundbreaking or controversial; hence the lack of comments.

  3. comment number 3 by: Darin

    As for Darin, because he has absolutely failed to add any unique insights or comments to this post, I cannot criticize him today.

    You’re welcome to enlighten us with your infinite knowledge and unique insight. That was the intension of posting the article after all, to hear what people think about it. I still haven’t gotten your email asking for my address yet; I was really hoping for a fan. 😉

    EDIT:

    I cannot criticize him today.

    Don’t be so hard on yourself…

    Nothing he has placed in bold is anything groundbreaking or controversial; hence the lack of comments.

    See, I knew you had it in you.

  4. comment number 4 by: KapSin

    This op-ed is pretty stale–much like Will’s other recent fare.

  5. comment number 5 by: ponta

    Though i disagree with Syuyuukan’s view on history, as the author claims, PM does not endorse its view. And if China does not like its view, China should protest against Syuukan,the war -memorial, not Koizumi.

    For me, the problem is not whether PM should visit Yasukuni or not:
    the problem is whether PM as a private person should be allowed to visit Yasukuni , just as he should be allowed to visit Islam temple, Buddha temple, MacDonald, Porno shops. I see no reason he should not.
    I for one do not care if PM does or does not visit Islam temple, Buddha temple, Mac Donald,  Porno shops, Yasukuni (unless it violates the principle of separation of the state from the Church)

    I see no reason a future Japanese PM, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or not, should not visit Islam temple privately even if Christianity and Islam had bitter relations in the past, even if some Islam fundamentalists have a radical view on history, and politics.

    And one should realise that, for Shinto ,which is a background religion of Yasukuni, the deads are someone whom we can still have dialogue with through the ritual. And the deads are honored because they are deads rather than because of what they did while alive. In particular the deads, whether they did good or bad while alive, are someone to be appeased, to be pacified, to be purified be cleansed.  The war deads need to be talked to,  honored pacified in this sense according to Shinto .And Yasukuni has been the place for the war deads.

    There is no question that Japan was expansionist, japan was out of control of militarism, Japan massacred many Pow and civilians,  Japan is to be blamed for that. But that does not means China has right to blame endlessly. That does not mean China has right to violate the right to religion..And japan has apologized and we settled the issue when japan concluded friendship treaty with China.

    China has using history politically.

    Since China became Communist, it has employed purported history to gobble up Tibet, seize Indian territories, assert its claims in the East and South China Seas, and demand Taiwan’s “return.”yale

    I think it is time for Chinese people to realize

    If Junichiro Koizumi’s visit to Yasukuni Shrine is wrong, then the Chinese Communist Party is a war criminal and continues to commit crimes. The Party has killed many more Chinese people than those killed by the Japanese in World War II, and its crimes are even worse.

    If a Chinese truly loves his own country, then he should first look into the crimes the CCP has committed and end the rule of this war criminal to free Chinaepoch

  6. comment number 6 by: usinkorea

    His comment about the Confederate flag was pretty good. I know pretty much nobody who isn’t from the South will buy it, but it is true. There are people in the South who use the Confederate flag as a proud symbol of their racism. But there are others who use it as a sign of the history of the land they are from – warts and all. There are people who engage in Civil War reinactments each year who are not racists (just as I’m sure there are some who are).

    In the end, we are talking about symbols and what they represent – and how they are representing different things to different people.

    The Koreans and Chinese say the visits to the shrine are paying tribute to war criminals and trying to recreate a spirit of totalitarian militarism to be used against Japan’s neighbors. And the Japanese seem to be saying the visits are to honor the war dead from the whole of Japanese history.

    What I don’t like is the seeming hypocrisy. China and South Korea’s societies are heavily anti-Japanese. They keep using as a partial basis for this the future Japan threat, but they still seek to make money via connections with Japan. Japan is a bad place with bad people nobody in Asia should trust, but Japanese finance capital is just fine…..

    South Korea has been that way for some time with both the economic and security relationship with the US – the US military and economic bullying have been considered an affront and cancer to Korean society, but whenever they fear losing either, the tune changes — until it is safe to go back to basing much of Korean nationalism on anti-US feeling…..

  7. comment number 7 by: usinkorea

    PS.

    I like George Will. I don’t agree with some of his more conservative opinions, but he is one of those rare type of intellectuals who not only knows what he is talking about, he can analysis a position from different points of view and explain them to you without twisting them all the time to suit his own more limited world view.

    I agree not every piece he writes shines, but he is writing them each week for a pay check. He’s a columnist.

    What was he doing in Japan?

  8. comment number 8 by: ponta

    It is ironical that China and South Korea, the most vehement criticizers of Japanese PM ,which allege JPM worships A criminals hanged dead more than 60 years ago, are the biggest supporters of the living evil, Kim Jong Il, who should be hanged dead now.

    .

  9. comment number 9 by: Sonagi

    And the deads are honored because they are deads rather than because of what they did while alive.

    Well, that’s not quite true. The dead enshrined in the main part of Yasukuni all died in service to the Emperor. Unknown to many, there is section in back where the souls of Japanese who fought on the losing side in civil wars and foreign soldiers who died in battles against Japan. This section is inaccessible because it was fenced off in response to a threat to destroy it.

    I don’t have an issue with Yasukuni, but I do have an issue with the museum next door.

    BTW, Ponta, Epoch Times is an organ of Falungong. It is a verbal weapon against the Chinese government and thus does not even strive for objectivity. I’m no fan of the CCP, but I do not use The Epoch Times as a source. More Chinese died under the Great Leap Forward than during Japan’s conquest of China, but Mao did not intend harm or imagine that his policy would create mass starvation. Japan’s imperial government did not invade China with good intentions, and when planes drop bombs over cities, they know there wil be civilian casualties. Moreover, war is brutal and decent people who put on a uniform can be transformed into heartless killers by the inhumanity of war. It is illogical to compare culpability for famine deaths with military and civilian war casualties.

  10. comment number 10 by: ponta

    Soangi
    Thanks
    I am talking about Shinto in general.

    After death the soul remains eternally upon this landyasukuni

    People who have died peacefully and happily amid their family are the revered ancestors but not everyone dies this way. Those who die without family to care for their kami become hungry ghosts (an idea imported from China) who wander and can cause trouble. A person who died violently or who led an unhappy life can be a source of danger or trouble to others. Things are done to ease these spiritsshinto

    I do have an issue with the museum next door.

    I agree. The museum needs to correct its display and it needs to show the wider perspective .In particular, I think it should
    mention the fact that Japanese military went out of civilian control in a
    context where a political situation was corrupt and the former constitution
    allowed it. Needless to say, it also needs to refer the victim side of
    story;that would not be against shinto religion.

    Epoch Times is an organ of Falungong.

    I know. but i thought the argument holds whoever said it.

    Mao did not intend harm or imagine that his policy would create mass starvation

    I might be biased about Mao..My image of Mao totally depends on this book
    And I rather agree with Rummel

    For instance, I don’t think Kim jong il did not intend harm or imagine that his policy would create mass starvation but I do think he should be blamed as badly as he killed its people.

  11. comment number 11 by: ponta

    correction
    I don’t think Kim jong il intended harm….

  12. comment number 12 by: helical

    Sonagi,

    Good intentions could be tricky to define.
    I believe that rarely does a country does invade another purely to cause them grief and suffering (though there have been numerous punitive wars in history).
    For what it’s worth, the leaders of Imperial Japan envisioned, or at least stated to the world that their purpose was the so-called Co-Prosperity Sphere when they set out to place Eastern Asia under its rule. Maybe it was all just acting purely in their own interests, but labeling it as “evil intentions” is the same as grouping Mao or Kim Jong-il having evil intentions since they should have known that their actions would cause suffering to the people.

  13. comment number 13 by: randomcow

    I don’t agree with his conclusions. If I understand correctly what he means by “leftist ideology” then Japan also shares this ideology. However Japan somehow manages to “get over” things, rather than claiming they are the victim. Throughout history through to the present day you can observe the marked difference in their reaction to losing the war, the soccer etc, compared to Korea’s reaction. It’s not the fact that Korea has a leftist ideology, but 10 points to Mr Will for trying.

    RC

  14. comment number 14 by: tomato

    I agree with randomcow…

    The Koreans are anti-Japanese anyways without the leftist president Roh. It’s more like Korean nationalism…it can come from the right or the left. That guy before Kim Dae Jung…Kim-something, I don’t remember…he was conservative, but he was very anti-Japanese (although he speaks pretty good Japanese).

  15. comment number 15 by: Sonagi

    helical said:

    For what it’s worth, the leaders of Imperial Japan envisioned, or at least stated to the world that their purpose was the so-called Co-Prosperity Sphere when they set out to place Eastern Asia under its rule. Maybe it was all just acting purely in their own interests, but labeling it as “evil intentions” is the same as grouping Mao or Kim Jong-il having evil intentions since they should have known that their actions would cause suffering to the people.

    Oh, for petessake, Helical, you should submit a CV applying for a position as the US military spokesperson in Iraq. Never in history has any nation invaded, occupied and colonized other lands in order to help the population. Conquest has always been about self-interest. Always. Always. Always, whether we are talking about European colonies in Africa, Asia, and the Americas, US colonial occupation of the Philippines, or Japanese colonization of East Asia.

    Invasion and conquest is not the same as a military alliance like the historical treaties between Korea and China or the US military presence in Japan and Korea; The democratically elected governments of Korea and Japan are acting in their own self-interest by permitting the stationing of the troops and the US government is acting in its own self-interest by maintaining that presence.

    is the same as grouping Mao or Kim Jong-il having evil intentions since they should have known that their actions would cause suffering to the people

    Don’t even compare Mao and KJI. Mao was born under a dying dynasty, saw his country divided up by foreign concessions, fought the Japanese colonizers and a corrupt nationalist government. He gave up a comfortable job as a librarian at Peking University and spent 20 years fighting the nationalist government and the Japanese, witnessing the deaths of his second wife and many compatriots.

    Socialism has now been almost completely discredited, but it looked very appealing to people in many countries 100 years ago when most of the world’s people wondered whether they would eat tomorrow, unions didn’t exist yet, and the wealthy created oligopolies that artificially inflated prices. Russia, China, Cuba, and other countries saw initial progress, especially in literacy and health care, after Communist revolutions, but since absolute power corrupts absolutely, these regimes all turned to rot.

    t has been said that if Mao had died or quit office by the late 1950s, he would be revered by the world as a great statesman. His later mistakes – the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution – reflected his egoistical need to hang on to power.

    KJI was born in Russia and grew up as the son of an omipotent dictator. He was handed the reigns of power and established a reputation as the most oppressive regime on earth. He did not spend years as a guerrilla fighter and he did not found a new government.

  16. comment number 16 by: Sonagi

    Ponta said:

    but i thought the argument holds whoever said it.

    Oh, no. Credibility matters very much when quoting sources.

    Suppose Japan and the US are having a trade dispute. Where can I find “the truth”? I would read US, Japanese, and third country media sources to get US, Japanese, and more neutral points of view, and then I would form an opinion.

    How would you respond if a Canadian cited an editorial from the Chosun Ilbo about a pair of rocks in the sea between Japan and Korea?

    Previous to your posting, I had read another article in The Epoch Times about a restaurant that cheated its customers by serving ordinary meat and seafood disguished as exotic dishes. Sometimes the preparation methods were very unsafe. I had no trouble believing this story after having watched many episdoes of a weekly program on CCTV called “质量报告” (Quality Report) which exposes unsanitary practices in the food industry.

    The article you cited was an editorial piece, and the selection cited was pure opinion, no facts. If an internationally respected medium like the BBC had voiced such views, I would give them weight, but not The Epoch Times.

    In other words, Ponta, if the source is an editorial, then the credibility of the source matters very, very much. If the article cites facts and research, credibility still matters as some sources lie or distort facts through selective presentation out of context. The restaurant story in The Epoch Times was credible because the CCP’s own mouthpiece, CCTV, has published similar reports.

    I have not read the book by June Chang, but I did read her first book, Wild Swans. I would like to read this new book on Mao. From the reviews I’ve read in US and British news sources, the book makes some provocative assertions, but the quality of the sources is sometimes questionable. Mao’s career is a subject worthy of vigorous debate and arguments praising or criticizing his leadership can be made. Overall I am not a fan of Mao, and I think the Chinese hold him in too high regard, but I understand why they view him that way.

    As for Japan’s “East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere” no valid arguments can be made to show that Japan was not acting in its own self-interest. As I stated before, never in history has any nation conquered a foreign land with benevolent intentions. Conquest has always been to obtain more land, slaves, natural resources, a buffer, or simply to extend one’s power.

  17. comment number 17 by: Sonagi

    Ponta said:

    agree. The museum needs to correct its display and it needs to show the wider perspective .In particular, I think it should
    mention the fact that Japanese military went out of civilian control in a
    context where a political situation was corrupt and the former constitution
    allowed it. Needless to say, it also needs to refer the victim side of
    story;that would not be against shinto religion.

    I was surprised to learn that Yasukuni has also enshrined foreign soldiers who fought against Japan. I think this is beautiful and unique. It’s too bad that the foreigners’ section is fenced off and inaccessible. If it were open to visitors, perhaps that would deflect a lot of foreign criticism. After all, how many nations show respect to foreign enemy dead?

  18. comment number 18 by: ponta

    Sonagi
    Thanks.

    Oh, no. Credibility matters very much when quoting sources.

    Sure.Cedibility matters when quoting aticle about facts.What I quoted, as you pointed out, is opinion.And it is a simple argument:
    (1) If Junichiro Koizumi’s visit to Yasukuni Shrine is wrong,
    (2) then the Chinese Communist Party is a war criminal and continues to commit crimes. The Party has killed many more Chinese people than those killed by the Japanese in World War II, and its crimes are even worse.
    (3)If a Chinese truly loves his own country, then he should first look into the crimes the CCP has committed and end the rule of this war criminal to free China.

    You seem to be arguing that since the source is Epoch Times,(2) is not
    credible, and therefore the argument does not hold, and therefore quoting Epoch Times was not a good choice.

    In my opinion, (2) is true whoever said it. And a lot of authors including
    George F. Will, June Chang, and Rummel seem to presuppose it.

    But I guess you know about China much better than me. I ‘ll have to study it more.

    I was surprised to learn that Yasukuni has also enshrined foreign soldiers who fought against Japan

    And Yasukuni enshrined the deads who died in prison, were hanged dead before the Pacific War.

    The point is for Shinto religion, the deads are fearful, if not pacified, and appeased, they will bring about danger, trouble to this world, if purified, they will help people.. Thus a rebel like Taira no masakado is enshrined in Shinto shrine.And Yasukuni is founded upon upon the belief from ancient times, according to HP of Yasukuni.

    Never in history has any nation invaded, occupied and colonized other lands in order to help the population. Conquest has always been about self-interest

    I agree, and the leader of the state rarely ruled its nation in the name of killing people but he/she always rule in the name of helping ,benefiting people:nonetheless, some leaders such as Kim Jong Il, (and Mao, according to some authors) have its people starved, oppressed, which constitutes serious crimes as bad as killing its people.

    I enjoy a discussion with you. Tell us more about what you know on this blog. I welcome you. Thanks.

  19. comment number 19 by: GarlicBreath

    Hi Sonagi,

    I was wondering how you felt about your internet friend (or maybe real world friend) Kushibo, preteding to be a lesbian kyopo republican woman. I asked Plunge (Kushibos best internet friend, or maybe only friend) about this and he ha seemed to think it was OK for a guy like Kushibo to make a blog for another persona. In this case a lesbian kyopo republican female persona.

    So far none of kushibos internet friends, besided plunge, have defened kushibo. I am guessing that Kushibo doesn’t have many friends, but you two seem pretty close internet friends.

    Do you think its a little bit stange to do what kushibo did?

  20. comment number 20 by: Sonagi

    1) If Junichiro Koizumi’s visit to Yasukuni Shrine is wrong,
    (2) then the Chinese Communist Party is a war criminal and continues to commit crimes. The Party has killed many more Chinese people than those killed by the Japanese in World War II, and its crimes are even worse.
    (3)If a Chinese truly loves his own country, then he should first look into the crimes the CCP has committed and end the rule of this war criminal to free China.

    You seem to be arguing that since the source is Epoch Times,(2) is not
    credible, and therefore the argument does not hold, and therefore quoting Epoch Times was not a good choice.

    Okay, since all three points are unsupported opinions, I’ll simply state my own opinions about them:

    1. I disagree. I don’t think Koizumi’s visits are wrong.
    2. The CCP fought a civil war against a corrupt nationalist government just as there have been many civil wars and struggles for power in pre-modern Japan and many other countries. A civil war is not morally the same as an invasion and conquest of another country, so neither the CCP nor the Kuomingtang are as culpable as Japan’s imperial army.
    3. Everyone – Chinese, American, Russian, Japanese, etc. – should search for the truth and be willing to face unpleasant aspects of history. This is a more difficult task for a Chinese than for an American or a Japanese because of severe restrictions on public media and discussion. Chinese do challenge, confront, and question, and they are thrown into jail for it. Chinese people are not to blame for their government’s censorship. They are real victims. It is easy for us foreigners to criticize the CCP without fear, but real Chinese who challenge the system and fight for their rights have been arrested, detained in secret prisons, tortured, and occasionally killed. Pretty darn cheeky for an Epoch Times writer in the comfort of his Taipei or Vancouver home to tell a Chinese that he should look into the crimes of the CCP.

  21. comment number 21 by: ponta

    Sonagi
    thanks.
    I agree with you in most of your points.
    And I also think an invasion is different from civil war.
    I also think killing POW and civilians by invasion is qualitatively different from killing by corrupt politics, by torture, by unfair trial.
    But what is the point here is the crime and blameworthiness of Mao and CCP.
    In this respect, several authors seem to agree that they are blameworthy for what they have done in the name of yhe great leap forward and cultural revolution and so on just as Tojo and Matsuoka ,who initiated the war for what they call “Co-Prosperity Sphere”, were blameworthy..Do you think the starvation by a corrupt politics and killing by torture is less blameworthy than killing by shooting, by bayonet, therefore, they are not comparable?
    Or do you think Mar and CCP are not responsible for millions of deaths?

    Chinese do challenge, confront, and question, and they are thrown into jail for it. Chinese people are not to blame for their government’s censorship. They are real victims……..real Chinese who challenge the system and fight for their rights have been arrested, detained in secret prisons, tortured, and occasionally killed..

    Isn’t this one of the CCP’s crimes an Epoch Time writes is talking about?
    I agree Chinese people are real victim, but who is culprit? ……

    I read Epoch times with a grain of salt, but I don’t trust them just because it is Epoch times. When the argument makes sense, I support it. I don’t endorse their religion just as I don’t endorse the war museum’s view on history, but I think the freedom to thought, and religion should be valued. That is one of things China need to take very seriously.I think Epoch Times is of value as an protest against the regime among Chinese themselves wherever they are voicing from..

    (by the way Epoch Times is not saying Koizumi’s visit is wrong, it is saying if it is wrong, then……I guess it does not want to make an enemy by holding a specific stance about his visit)

  22. comment number 22 by: GarlicBreath

    I guess I won’t get an answer from Sonagi…. *sigh*
    Plunge didn’t answer me either…. *sigh*

  23. comment number 23 by: Sonagi

    Ponta,

    The Epoch Times preaches to the converted. No mainland Chinese reads it.

    If you want to persuade an opponent to at least respect, if not agree with your view, then you must first put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and see the issue from their perspective. You must also speak respectfully. If I say only negative things about, say, Japan, then of course, no Japanese will listen to me with open ears.

    There are quite a few globally aware, fluent-English speaking Chinese (people much like you and me) who read Western news sources like the BBC and CNN and comment on Westerners’ blogs. Balanced reporting in international media and open-minded discussions with people from other countries are much more persuasive to people of any nationality than biased sources with single agendas.

    As for my opinion on #1, yes, I realize it was a hypothetical condition, but I stated my opinion clearly anyway since the visits are the cause of the current controversy.

  24. comment number 24 by: Sonagi

    by the way Epoch Times is not saying Koizumi’s visit is wrong, it is saying if it is wrong, then……I guess it does not want to make an enemy by holding a specific stance about his visit)

    You hit the nail on the head, Ponta. The Epoch Times is written by ethnic Chinese, and given global Chinese sentiments about the visits, the Epoch Times cannot come right out and disagree with other Asians who protest the visits. Instead they are just using the controversy surrounding the visits to once again criticize the CCP. Again, let me state, Ponta, I dislike the CCP and their one-party iron-fisted rule, but media that strive for objectivity and balance have far greater influence than media with obvious political agendas.

  25. comment number 25 by: ponta

    Sonagi
    Thanks .

    media that strive for objectivity and balance have far greater influence than media with obvious political agendas

    Yes, I agree, and let’s not forget that we should read any media critically.
    By the way I think it was wise that CBS
    and other media have not dismissed the story by Falun Gong just because they are Falun Gong.

    If you want to persuade an opponent to at least respect, if not agree with your view, then you must first put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and see the issue from their perspective. You must also speak respectfully. If I say only negative things about, say, Japan, then of course, no Japanese will listen to me with open ears.

    As a tip for an persuasive argument, I agree. And I think you are balanced and able in this regard.
    Anyway ,I enjoy the discussion, you are very informative, and helpful in understanding a different perspective. That is what I need. And please feel free to criticize, with or without complimenting Japan or anybody.
    Thanks again.

  26. comment number 26 by: sewing

    Sonagi:

    Small point, but you wrote:

    “The Epoch Times preaches to the converted. No mainland Chinese reads it.”

    But is the reason mainland Chinese allegedly don’t read it because they choose not to, or because they cannot even if they wanted to? I’m sure it’s not exactly freely available in the PRC….

  27. comment number 27 by: Sonagi

    You’re half-right, Sewing. PRC citizens residing outside China, such as overseas students, would have access. There are probably millions of Chinese citizens living outside the PRC, and obviously I don’t know the reading habits of every single one; what I meant by my statement was that Chinese blog commentators whose opinions I respect have criticized the Epoch Times as a Falungong mouthpiece.

  28. comment number 28 by: Matt

    You’re half-right, Sewing. PRC citizens residing outside China, such as overseas students, would have access. There are probably millions of Chinese citizens living outside the PRC, and obviously I don’t know the reading habits of every single one;

    I went to a Chinese friends house and there are several people living there. In the living room there was a copy of the Epoch Times. Speculating who it belonged to brought much hilarity.

    what I meant by my statement was that Chinese blog commentators whose opinions I respect have criticized the Epoch Times as a Falungong mouthpiece.

    Of course it is a Falun Gong mouthpiece. A lot of Chinese I know are against the CCP but they are against Fulun Gong too (although I also know many CCP party members).

  29. comment number 29 by: tomato

    About the Epoch Times, it seems to be circulating a lot in California…it does not seem to be some cultist newspaper at all…

  30. comment number 30 by: ponta

    I did not think that quoting Epoch Times would bring about comments this much.

    My point is,

    (1)CCP has been doing much more wrongs than Koizumi’s visit,if his visit is wrong at all..
    (2)CCP has been at least as much blameworthy since WWⅡ as Japan had been during WWⅡ.(And Japan apologized for it but China has not)
    (3)Chinese people are misdirected by some political manipulation to turn their concern from the real domestic issues to the pseudo-problem, or the domestic issue of a foreign state.
    Chinese people should realise it.
    And it is just that Epoch Times happens to point this out.

    It is important to note that both Chinese and Korea government, the two major criticizer of JPM’s visit, manipulate information people can access.
    As for China, I don’t think I have to prove.
    As for Korea,
    Korea Blocks Pro-Japanese Websites
    Korea educate Anti-Japanese

    Let me point out, in passing, that when it comes to North Korea, it seems South Korea ignore visiting war shrine
    It is clear how South Korea is biased in reaction to visiting problematic shrine. In case of Japan, South Korea blame JPM visiting, so much so that she stops a summit meeting. in case of North Korea, ,South Korean agency bothers to visit it and so far I hear no hard criticism as vehement as the one against Japan..

  31. comment number 31 by: akan

    Sonagi Said:

    Mao did not intend harm or imagine that his policy would create mass starvation. Japan’s imperial government did not invade China with good intentions,

    Did Mao purge the local leader who reported the famine to him with a good intention?

    Do you know the word “willful negligence”? One who threw a brick into a crowd from tenth floor of a building coud be charged with homicide whether he intended harm or not because he should have knew his act would cause casualties.

    Actually, Mao knew his policy had caused tens of millions death, and still pursued it. It is the wellknown fact he boasted he didn’t care if half of the Chnese died.

    Don’t even compare Mao and KJI. Mao was born under a dying dynasty, …

    KJI was born in Russia and grew up as the son of an omipotent dictator…

    The circmstances of the age and Mao’s revolutionist career can’t indemnify his crime. (If the circmstances of the age indemnified political crime, then no one could blame Imperial Japan.) It’s not Kim Jong Ill’s fault to be born as the son of an dictator. He is to be condemned because he is starving people and maintaining the oppressive regime by imprisoning and torturing political dissidents. In that sense,the two have strong similarities.

    Russia, China, Cuba, and other countries saw initial progress, especially in literacy and health care, after Communist revolutions,

    If you say Korea saw great progress especially in literacy and health care,koreans will be inflated with rage though it’s true.
    Here you see resemblance between the Japanese rightists and the communism supporters.

    How would you respond if a Canadian cited an editorial from the Chosun Ilbo about a pair of rocks in the sea between Japan and Korea?

    Well, the most stupid way to respond is to rebut the Canadian saying “you are wrong because of citing Chosun Ilbo which reflects Korean view on the dispute” . What’s the matter is whether the editorial is based on the facts and it can convince us.

    Everyone – Chinese, American, Russian, Japanese, etc. – should search for the truth and be willing to face unpleasant aspects of history. This is a more difficult task for a Chinese than for an American or a Japanese because of severe restrictions on public media and discussion.

    It’s a very very difficult task to face unpleasant aspects of history and present sitation for most Chinese including who live outside China where no restriction on public media and discussion exisists. You’ll learn that when you obsereve their comments on BBSs and blogs.

    2. The CCP fought a civil war against a corrupt nationalist government just as there have been many civil wars and struggles for power in pre-modern Japan and many other countries. A civil war is not morally the same as an invasion and conquest of another country, so neither the CCP nor the Kuomingtang are as culpable as Japan’s imperial army.

    I think Epoch Times meant Chinese invasion and colonization of Tibet by saying the CCP is war criminal. It has been oppressing the Tibetan people consistently since then. So the paper claimed (the CCP) continues to commit crimes.

  32. comment number 32 by: akan

    correction
    If you say Korea saw great progress especially in literacy and health care under the Japanese colonialism, koreans will be inflamed with rage though it’s true.