Occidentalism
Duc, sequere, aut de via decede!

Wealthy Tycoon Jailed

July 1st, 2007 . by Matt

Wealthy Tycoon

Interesting story. Does ‘Karaoke Bar’ mean some kind of hostess club? I wonder how the tycoon will be treated in prison.

One of South Korea’s richest businessmen has been found guilty of abducting and assaulting karaoke bar workers, and sentenced to 18 months in jail.

Prosecutors said Kim Hanwha Group chairman Kim Seung-youn and several bodyguards stormed into an upscale Seoul karaoke bar in mid-March, seeking those responsible for attacking his son earlier that month.

Kim seized several workers, shuttled them off to a remote mountain area and forced them to their knees while he beat them, they said.

“I ordered my bodyguards to take over because I got tired of beating them myself,” Kim, also a top official of a local boxing association, said during the trial.

Kim, who showed no emotion as the verdict was handed down today, said he punched the faces of several workers.

No one has been charged with the earlier assault on his son.

Prosecutors had sought a two-year prison sentence for the leader of what local media said is the 12th largest business conglomerate in the country.

South Koreans have seen their business leaders stand trial over the years for corruption, bribery and illicit financial dealings. The violent nature of Kim’s case has ensured it received massive coverage in local media.

South Korean police have also seen their reputation sullied by the case, with a Seoul court issuing an arrest warrant for one officer on suspicion of trying to cover up the case in order to please the powerful business leader.


93 Responses to “Wealthy Tycoon Jailed”

  1. comment number 1 by: GarlicBreath

    not=note

  2. comment number 2 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    Yes, anybody can read the headline, but those who really and truely understand Korea know that tycoons almost never serve their time. They are the “latter day nobility” the Yangbang, if you will. The common Korean on the street worship this nobility.

    Yes, you are the one who really and truelly understand Korea, which coincidentally, so well that you create your own spelling. BTW, little clue like that really doesn’t help your arguing; it’s showing a little too much of yourself. It shows you’re stubborn, and that’s easy to exploit. Remember the grave you dig for yourself, with a little help of Matt, in the V-Tech case; that was sweet. Come on, it’s easy to admit a little mistake like that. Actually, you don’t have to, just need to fix it the next time around. Obviously, if you do it now, I’ll make a big deal out of it. A little too late I guess, but maybe next time… It’s all for your sake baby…
    Back to the topic,
    Yes, he’s released to a hospital, so what? We don’t know if he’s coming back, but I guess I’ll find that out from you later.(It’s so sweet to have someone getting the update for you) I don’t if it’s a b.s., and the doctors drummed up some ‘phony’ case, but at least, it’s good on paper. I’ve said this again and again. There’s nothing wrong in getting advantage within the law. You got money, power, and influence, might as well use them. That’s markedly different being above the law. BTW, did you know that he’s been in jail since early May? I would imagine that a big tycoon like him would manage to get bail until at least conviction(more likely, until all that appeals have been exhausted), so that was kind of ‘harsh.’ I don’t see where “I told you so” of yours fit in here. Hey, Paris was out of jail in a day, at least this guy spent two month getting “depressed.” My ever-ongoing advice, read carefully. You know, I should start keeping a score on this thing between us. How about 1-0 my way this time? Better luck next time…

  3. comment number 3 by: Errol

    I was wrong! The yangban-ajeossi gets the get out of jail free card. Next stop California, South of France, or wherever badboy-yangban hide out to avoid extradition treaties.

    Korea needs Ajumma Power Now! Vote Pak Geun-hye Korea Number 1.

  4. comment number 4 by: Errol

    Justice served Korea-style as translated by Mr Marmot.

  5. comment number 5 by: GarlicBreath

    I have correctly predicted the outcome Kim Seung-Youn case. Let me be the first to say that Chong Mong-Goo, of Hundie, will be next in the Korean pardon machine. Koreans worship the “latter day nobility” the neo-yangbang, if you will. They will never let their royalty sit in jail because they were convicted of a crime.

  6. comment number 6 by: General Tiger

    GarlicBreath:

    I have correctly predicted the outcome Kim Seung-Youn case.

    Which is that he’s in jail? *Smirk*

  7. comment number 7 by: GarlicBreath

    Tigger, you are not hiding from me anymore. Good! I just assumed that Mr Bevers hex on dog flesh eaters had gotten to you.
    .
    The Korean tycoon (neo yangbang) has been released, as I predicted he would be. Next will be Chong Mong Goo. Once again I am right.

  8. comment number 8 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,
    Hmmm…starting to feel that the mispellings were not deliberate, but out of compulsion. I’d love to get you on the couch to find out why…

  9. comment number 9 by: GarlicBreath

    mispellings

    um..misspellings… pot calling the kettle black.

    Don’t forget Blians maxim.

    Racists are always hypocrites aren’t they? lol.

  10. comment number 10 by: GarlicBreath

    Putting lipstick on a pig. This may be the first time in history that a guy is convicted of embezzling 100 million dollars and then is given his passport so he can travel the world. I am not too surprised, because as I proven many times, Korea treats the business elite like neo-yangbang. How will the Kool-Aid drinking kyopo apologists explain this? kakakka.. kakak… they can’t..

  11. comment number 11 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,

    This may be the first time in history that a guy is convicted of embezzling 100 million dollars and then is given his passport so he can travel the world. I am not too surprised, because as I proven many times, Korea treats the business elite like neo-yangbang. How will the Kool-Aid drinking kyopo apologists explain this? kakakka.. kakak… they can’t..

    This is part of the Bali Reforms Act 1966 in the U.S. since how it is in S.K.,

    …which states that a non-capital defendant is to be released, pending trial, on his personal recognizance or on personal bond, unless the judicial officer determines that such incentives will not adequately assure his appearance at trial. In that case, the judge must select an alternative from a list of conditions, such as restrictions on travel.

    Do you really think that Mr. Chung is a flight-risk? He travels to ‘fix’ Hyundai’s image, damaged by this scandal, and in a family conglomerate like Hyundai is, what he does still matters. Last thing he want is to create another scandal by fleeing.
    Personally, I’m not sure if he deserves the six years asked by the prosecutor. You could argue that the slush fund he created was for the benefit of the company(and the shareholders), and not his personal gain. Still wrong, but… A shorter sentence, six months or less would be more appropriate given his age; at 69, six-months may as well be a lifetime as six years, on average, is; average lifespan is 74 years. Which bring me to another point, this is probably one of those cases that you can argue for ‘overzealous’ prosecution, and it’s laughable that you give it as an example of your neo-yangbang logic.
    Does that qualify as CAN?

    mispellings

    It’s funny that you didn’t address the content… Is it that you can’t, kakakka..kakak… Since apparently you’ve given many childish nicknames, hmmm…I just notice that you haven’t called me KoreanJeff for sometime now. I wonder if it’s got to do with my being from Indonesia. LOL… Anyhow, how about me giving one for you. How about GarlicSpin? Let me know…

  12. comment number 12 by: General Tiger

    GarlicHead:

    Tigger, you are not hiding from me anymore. Good! I just assumed that Mr Bevers hex on dog flesh eaters had gotten to you.

    I never hide from you, you just tried to ignore me until now. (Laugh)

  13. comment number 13 by: GarlicBreath

    GarlicBreath was right again.
    .
    Chung Mong Goo was given a suspened sentance. No jail time.
    .
    I suggest you read all the comments on this thread. The kyopo hive doesn’t want this discussed and once again, I am right.
    .
    Let me say it again. The Corean business class is the neo yangbang. coreans lick the boots of any yangbang (along with chinese).

  14. comment number 14 by: GarlicBreath

    Big shot captains of industry in South Korea who break the law have an ace in the hole: the leniency of their country’s appeals court judges.

    Two such tycoons — Chung Mong-koo of Hyundai Motor Co. and Kim Seung-youn of Hanwha Group — within the past week stood before magistrates who suspended their prison terms for, respectively, embezzlement and assault

    .

    The Neo-Yangbang are free to do as they wish.

    .
    remember this?

    To establish ’special treatment’, you really have to show that the system is treating him differently than other people.

    The judge admits special treatment.

    Presiding Judge Lee Jae-hong said in court. “I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.”

    I expect the once loudmouth gyopos will be very silent on this.

  15. comment number 15 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,
    From a “loudmouth gyopo”:
    It’s curious that you didn’t link the quote or source it…
    I wonder if it because the rest of the article reads,

    Experts cited various reasons for the leniency, including the idea among South Korea‘s judiciary that the chance of a criminal recurrence by the offending executives is slim.

    “Absolutely the judge will think there is no possibility they will commit the same crime again,‘‘ said Hwang Ju-myung, co-founder of Seoul law firm Hwang Mok Park PC and a former judge himself.

    Michael Breen, a longtime resident of South Korea and author of the book, “The Koreans,‘‘ said …the willingness of judges to show leniency can also be found in the idea that going through the humiliation of a trial and prison sentencing is probably punishment enough.

    “The spirit of the law has been applied and the letter of the law doesn‘t need to be applied any further,‘‘ he said.

    Still, they have paid a price. Both Chung and Kim, 55, were ordered to do community service and though they escaped lengthy jail sentences, their convictions stand.

    AP
    .
    and this,

    Though Hyundai and Hanwha both welcomed the decisions, some in South Korea had bitter words for the country‘s judges.

    “Instead of undoing injustice for the people, the judiciary simply patronizes the public,‘‘ Hwang Sun, deputy spokesman of South Korea‘s Democratic Labor Party, said in a statement on his party‘s website. “We knew that the judiciary was not fair to all, but these verdicts … have surpassed the unimaginable,‘‘ he wrote.

    Aaahhhh…the Koreans can’t self-criticise…racial superiority…blahblahblah, no?
    Now, let me do, Japan did it too…don’t know much about it though…

    TOKYO (Thomson Financial) – A former governor of Japan’s central Wakayama prefecture Monday received a suspended sentence of three years for bid rigging and accepting bribes from public works contractors.

    Yoshiki Kimura accepted 10 million yen in bribes in connection with attempted bid-rigging in 2004, according to the Osaka District Court.

    Kimura also conspired with the then-treasurer of the prefectural government to award three public works projects to pre-selected contractors, the court said.

    He was ordered to pay a forfeit of 10 million yen. The trial was one of several involving former governors who were indicted last year for alleged bid rigging. Verdicts in two other trials are still pending.

    Forbes
    Same suspended sentences, the difference, one is for personal gain and the other was largely for the company’s benefit, hmmm…

  16. comment number 16 by: egg

    GarlicBreath

    Presiding Judge Lee Jae-hong said in court. “I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.”

    Quite shocking.
    He is perhaps suggesting that if the Chung Mong-koo of Hyundai Motor Co. was not in his social position, the judge might have sentenced him heavier without suspention. Is he raelly recognizing the rules of laws? I am beginning to think, at least the actions that the judges took in “Ōtsu Scandal” are quite worth praising.
    Shall I have to surrender again…?
    .
    kjeff

    Same suspended sentences, the difference, one is for personal gain and the other was largely for the company’s benefit, hmmm…

    The question here is, in the Japanese case, was the accused one sentenced guilty with suspention because of his social position or not. We are arguing about speacial trearments that one gets, because of one`s social position.

  17. comment number 17 by: kjeff

    egg,
    I think you quite misunderstood what I meant. I just wanted to point out that suspended sentence wasn’t “invented” in Korea. Moreover, in the Hyundai’s case, to me personally, there’s a huge mitigating circumstance, which is that he did it, mostly, not for personal gains; the company had needed some “grease” money to get some contracts. The Japanese governor(one of several apparently), from what I read, did it for personal gains.
    .
    Going back to your comment in the other thread, I think most Koreans, and certainly I, welcome criticisms. (You are not necessarily YOU here) But first, be fair…if you want to make some generalizations, you better have some studies to back them up and not just your, most likely, limited observations; the whole neo-“yangbang” thing was just ridiculous. And second, like what Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” If you’re going to say Korean this, Korean that, and you’re not a Korean, then you’re better ready for, how about you?

  18. comment number 18 by: GarlicBreath

    kjeff Says:

    GarlicBreath,
    From a “loudmouth gyopo”:

    First you claimed to be ‘Korean-american’ and now you claim to be a gyopo. Do you know about the the corean view on “pure blood”, I guess you are what you say you are, because I have no proof otherwise.

    It’s curious that you didn’t link the quote or source it…

    Its curious that you didnt like the quote either… kakaka.. oh you put AP, that is supposed to help. kkakakka..

    .

    I see you are on the same old tactic that “other do it too”. Did you give up on that claim that there was “no special treatment”.kakakakakka .. thougt so. Did you give up on that claim that Chung Mong Goo would serve his time? yep… kakakaka…
    .

    I just wanted to point out that suspended sentence wasn’t “invented” in Korea

    .

    I have no doubt that all nations have a mechanism for suspended sentences. and… what is your point?

    there’s a huge mitigating circumstance, which is that he did it, mostly, not for personal gains; the company had needed some “grease” money to get some contracts

    yes the mitigating circumstance is that Mong Goo is a neo yangbang and can do what he wants.

    The Japanese governor(one of several apparently), from what I read, did it for personal gains

    .

    So.. is beating somebody up is for public gain? You are so easy.. kakakakka..

  19. comment number 19 by: egg

    kjeff

    I just wanted to point out that suspended sentence wasn’t “invented” in Korea.

    ?? Is anyone claiming that?

    Moreover, in the Hyundai’s case, to me personally, there’s a huge mitigating circumstance, which is that he did it, mostly, not for personal gains; the company had needed some “grease” money to get some contracts.

    I won`t deny that. What I feel quite alarmed is the judge`s comment. Won`t that alarm you?
    .

    Going back to your comment in the other thread

    Will you write it there?
    .

    if you want to make some generalizations,

    Which comments do you think to be my making generalizations? Maybe this?

    Shall I have to surrender again…?

    I think I was quite sarcarstic but I am not thinking that all Korean are the same yet so don`t be so anxious.
    But I want to say this. I have been reading the Japanese version of the Korean newspapers for some time. You will agree with me that on the Japanese version, things are written aimed at Japanese people. That is they are introducing the views of majority of Korean people to the Japanese people.
    Now going back to this topix, I couldn`t find a single article criticizing these sentences. Is it wrong to consider that the majority of Korean people are thinking that the judge`s comment is appropriate? Is it wrong to decide what the majority is thinking by the papers or what the governments says?
    Why don`t the sentenced tycoons resign, on the first place? Aren`t there criticisms about their remaining on their present positions? Won`t that mean majority of Korean people are accepting unfair treatments because they are tycoons?(I had this suspicion in my mind when I wrote the comment above.)
    If they think this is a fair treatment, why not criticize the judge`s comments for misleading foreign people? Why not put the criticism on the Japanese version or maybe English version?
    .

    how about you?

    Ask me whatever you like concretely.
    .
    By the way, I have always wondered this. Why are former S.Korean presidents commonly sentenced? And yet, where are they now?

  20. comment number 20 by: GarlicBreath

    As things get tough, S Korea’s bosses get rolling
    By Anna Fifield in Seoul

    Published: September 12 2007 03:00

    Wheelchairs seem to be the vehicle of choice for South Korean tycoons who find themselves in a spot of bother.

    Lee Kun-hee, the chairman of Samsung, last year rolled back into Korea in a shiny silver number.

    This was after suddenly travelling to the US just as prosecutors began an investigation into allegations that he had illegally passed his wealth on to his children.

    Mr Lee was never questioned aboutthe case, which seems now to have gone away.

    Chung Mong-koo, the boss of Hyundai Motor, was wheeled into court for his trial on charges of embezzling $100m of company money and breach of trust, also related to attempts to transfer the family business to his son.

    He last week had his three-year jail sentence suspended, with the judgesaying the country needed him back in the office.

    Kim Seung-youn, chairman of the Hanwha explosives conglomerate, yesterday went one better, showing up at court in not just a wheelchair but in hospital pyjamas as well.

    Only a few months ago, Mr Kim waswell enough to participate in a Godfather-style attack involving a steelbar, his bodyguards and some karaokeroom workers who were mean to hisson.

    However, yesterday his 18-month prison term for assault was also suspended.

    The Korean courts appear to believe that it is in the national interest to have these industrial giants continue to run their publicly listed companies, regardless of what they might get up to behind the scenes.

    Wouldn’t the national interest be better served by business leaders that behaved themselves and a legal system that treated all citizens equally?

    Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007

    All those loudmouth gyopos seem to lost their voice. Suddenly they forgot all the one sided lies and excuses they made. Don’t worry dear reader, I will shame them as punishment for their lies.
    .

    kpuppy
    I just wanted to point out that suspended sentence wasn’t “invented” in Korea.

    Egg
    ?? Is anyone claiming that?

    Spot on Egg, nobody said that, but that is his tactic. Anytime someone sheds some light on Corean culture, you can count on loudmouth gyopos to confuse the issue or change the subject.
    .
    A corean cant help but kiss the feet of yangbang.
    .
    Easy.. so easy.. kakakakkakkakkak

  21. comment number 21 by: kjeff

    Egg,

    ?? Is anyone claiming that?

    I think you’re taking what I wrote too literally.(The quote marks were there for a reason.) But, I think we can agree that some of the comments here, especially from the likes of GarlicBreath, seemed to imply that pardons/suspended sentences for the wealthy/powerful/connected only happen in Korea, which is not true. Wait…I can see it already….”When did I say this?” Well, what’s the whole “neo-yangbang” thing about?

    He is perhaps suggesting that if the Chung Mong-koo of Hyundai Motor Co. was not in his social position, the judge might have sentenced him heavier without suspention. Is he raelly recognizing the rules of laws?

    I’m not familiar with Korean law per se, but judges generally need to adhere to a certain sentencing guidelines, and it’s really their discretion to hand out the sentences. He was simply trying to explain why an actual jail sentence may not serve any practical purpose. Mr. Chung’s role in Korean economy was just one reason of many, such as his age, the unlikelihood of recidivism, and that his motive was not that of personal gain. And all of those made him deem the suspended sentence appropriate.
    Why do you think the ex-governor received a suspended sentence?

    Now going back to this topix, I couldn`t find a single article criticizing these sentences. Is it wrong to consider that the majority of Korean people are thinking that the judge`s comment is appropriate? Is it wrong to decide what the majority is thinking by the papers or what the governments says?
    Why don`t the sentenced tycoons resign, on the first place? Aren`t there criticisms about their remaining on their present positions? Won`t that mean majority of Korean people are accepting unfair treatments because they are tycoons?(I had this suspicion in my mind when I wrote the comment above.)
    If they think this is a fair treatment, why not criticize the judge`s comments for misleading foreign people? Why not put the criticism on the Japanese version or maybe English version?

    First, if you look at my comment #65, you’ll see AP covering a negative reaction from DLP’s deputy spokesman. But, I must say, that you’ll rarely see an in-depth article in foreign presses covering domestic issues. I’m not sure if South Korea has a dedicated English language newspaper, instead of simply English language, or Japanese, editions of the local newspapers.(In Indonesia, we have Jakarta Post) What are the reactions to the governor’s suspended sentence in Japan?
    See, now…it looks like I’m simply saying Japan did it too, but it’s really not. It really goes back to my Jesus’ stone casting thing, how about you?
    GarlicBreath

    First you claimed to be ‘Korean-american’ and now you claim to be a gyopo. Do you know about the the corean view on “pure blood”, I guess you are what you say you are, because I have no proof otherwise.

    Hmmm…Kor-Am vs gyopo. I think you got confused there GB, Korean-Americans are gyopos. And you are? Wait…I forgot, you wanted me to give some proof of my identity before you give me your precious name.

    Did you give up on that claim that there was “no special treatment”

    Hmmm…wasn’t I referring to the whole ‘travel’ thing? BTW, didn’t he come back to Korea?

    Did you give up on that claim that Chung Mong Goo would serve his time? yep… kakakaka…

    Never made the claim…btw, where are those pardons of yours, or have you given up that claim?
    What you wrote,

    Yes I have read what you wrote, but I respectfully disagree. Chung will be pardoned too.

    And what I wrote,

    …it doesn’t change the fact that influential people get pardoned, reduced, suspended, or commuted sentence all the time pretty much anywhere, and certainly here in the U.S.

    I have no doubt that all nations have a mechanism for suspended sentences. and… what is your point?

    Then, what’s the point of this discussion? I thought you’re arguing that in KOREA, and in KOREA alone, because of this supposed historical “yangbang” culture, the privilege few are kind of above the law by getting pardoned or suspended sentences, no? If you’re going to say that these things happen elsewhere, then what are we talking about again?

    yes the mitigating circumstance is that Mong Goo is a neo yangbang and can do what he wants.

    And, the mitigating circumstance, in the Japanese ex-governor case, is that he is a neo daimyo and can do what he wants.LOL

    Easy.. so easy.. kakakakkakkakkak

    When I was younger, my mother asked me how I did on the math test I had that day. I said, “Easy.. so easy..” I got a ‘D’ on it the next day. I’m older now, and so should you.

  22. comment number 22 by: egg

    kjeff
    Thank you for your reply.
    Before answering your questions, I would like to straighten my ideas a bit about this.
    .
    1.About suspention, I think there is nothing wrong, as long as the S.Korean judges are following the standards of S.Korea. That is, if another guy who is not in socialy important position, did the same crime, he will be treated the same. I personally feel sentences without suspention might have been better, but it is natural that the standards differ in different countries. I am focusing on equal treatments.
    .
    2.I doubt the above equal treatment was maintained in this case.(Not so sure though.) But even if it was maintained, the judge should not say this “I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.”
    as a reason. Because it gives people an impression that if sentences without suspention do not cause gamble, (That is if the accused were not socially important figure.), the judge might have sentenced him without suspention. This reasoning should not be allowed. It will make people lose trust that equal treatments are available at courts, and will damage the creditabilty of the S.Korean judicial system.
    .
    3.If the above concern is shared by majority of people in S.Korea, I won`t be alarmed so much. You have shown me a criticism by DLP(But he seems to be criticizing the unfair treatment and not the reasoning. That will mean my No.1 concern is not baseless.). I hope it is shared by majority of people.
    .
    4.But putting aside the leagal issues, are there criticisms against these two figures remaining in the current positions? What if it happened in America(You live there, don`t you?)? If it were in my country, they will resign. As long as they remain, customers will not buy their products. I feel the fact that they are not quitting shows majority of S.Korean people are accepting special treatments because of their social position. I don`t think that S.Korean people are happy about the situation but even if they are relluctant, they are accepting privileges.
    .
    5.In the above meaning, I have begun to feel neo-yangbang thing is persuading or descriving the situation of S.Korean society in limited degree.

  23. comment number 23 by: egg

    kjeff

    Wait…I can see it already….”When did I say this?” Well, what’s the whole “neo-yangbang” thing about?

    I am not sure how I should answer this but will my comments above help?

    Why do you think the ex-governor received a suspended sentence?

    Are you mentioning about the Chung Mong-koo of Hyundai Motor Co? If you are, I think your reasoning is persuasive. But at the same time, I consider this “I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.” reasoning should never be put in among them.

    What are the reactions to the governor’s suspended sentence in Japan?

    I guess it won`t be surprised in normal cases.(About this case, the amount is tremendous and it went to the politicians, no?) But I think they will resign, such as Mr.Tsutsumi owner of Seibu Gr did. I tried to find English version of Japanese papers but it seems you need to pay money to find articles written more than a year ago.

    But, I must say, that you’ll rarely see an in-depth article in foreign presses covering domestic issues. I’m not sure if South Korea has a dedicated English language newspaper, instead of simply English language, or Japanese, editions of the local newspapers.

    To observe the opinions of the majority, what should I do? Do I have to live in S.Korea?

  24. comment number 24 by: kjeff

    Egg,

    This reasoning should not be allowed. It will make people lose trust that equal treatments are available at courts, and will damage the creditabilty of the S.Korean judicial system.

    I guess we just have to disagree on this. I don’t think any justice systems gives “equal treatment.” And, despite GarlicBreath’s claim, I’ve never argued so. Because, if it were the case, everyone should get the same number of lawyers, who all went to the same law school, who passed the bar with the same scores, no? If I somehow were on trial for creating a slush fund, I would have ONE (not one team) lawyer who went to a second-tier law school, who passed the bar on his third tries. Mr. Chung probably had dozens of Seoul University’s lawyers, graduated in the top percentile, defending him. If I went to jail, nothing will happen to any countries’ economy, no one(well, two) would loose their jobs, no one would see their personal wealth(except my own family) shrinking. Having said all of that, I think the sentence, and the public reactions would be vastly different if Mr. Chung had used the money largely for personal use. Instead, he used it to get contracts, to give employees’ bonuses, and to attract one international expo to the country. It’s really more of an accounting problem, albeit, illegal ones. Yes, justice is supposed to equal, but the world is not. I think we should strive for “fairness” rather than “equal,” and I think in this case, it was fair. What you wrote somehow reminds me of a former headmaster of my high school who was against instituting school uniform. When was told that the uniform would create a more equal atmosphere and lessen the gap between the haves and the haves-not, he simply said, “The world is not equal, the sooner they learn that, the better.”

    I guess it won`t be surprised in normal cases.(About this case, the amount is tremendous and it went to the politicians, no?) But I think they will resign, such as Mr.Tsutsumi owner of Seibu Gr did. I tried to find English version of Japanese papers but it seems you need to pay money to find articles written more than a year ago.

    I wonder what happened to Mr. Tsutsumi legally, was he ever tried for anything?(What did he do btw?) If not, do you think “resigning” is more a punishment than going to jail, publicly humiliated, released, stand trial, convicted, appealed, turned down, receives suspended sentence and doing community services?

    To observe the opinions of the majority, what should I do? Do I have to live in S.Korea?

    My advice, is not to get caught up with number. What is majority anyway? I think the fact that there are dissenting opinions, and that they are free to be expressed is enough for me.

  25. comment number 25 by: egg

    kjeff
    Thank you for your reply.
    My using the word equal might not have been the right word.
    .
    You mean each person`s condition such as wealth differs, so the resorces (such as lawyers) that could be spent are different. And it will lead to different results. Right?
    I am sad to say I must admit that.
    But what I am arguing here is a little different.
    I am saying that the judges should not reason his sentences with things which are not irrevant with the crime itself. I am saying it is wrong, the judge reasoning a suspention because (for example) he is a man, wealthy or has significant social influence etc. These are irrelevant to the crime itself. If the judge has given him suspention because he is a male or born on September or anything, you will agree with me that the judge shouldn`t. I consider social position to be the same.
    As a result, the difference in wealth might bring a different outcome, but it should not be the reason of the sentence. (Because it is irrelevant to the crime itself.) I mean when the accused is wealthy, he can hire able lawyers and he may win the case. But that is only a result. It should not be the reason of the sentences. The sentence itself shouldn`t state that “he is wealthy so I will let him win”. By equal I meant this. It is a different matter.

  26. comment number 26 by: GarlicBreath

    Mr. Chung had used the money largely for personal use.

    Opposed to what public use?

    Again how was beating up somebody not for personal reasons?

    Kim seized several workers, shuttled them off to a remote mountain area and forced them to their knees while he beat them, they said.

    Now this is another one of your lies

    I don’t think any justice systems gives “equal treatment.” And, despite GarlicBreath’s claim, I’ve never argued so

    What was my claim? That you thought that any justice system gives “equal treatment.” I don’t care what your opinion on that is.
    .

    Because, if it were the case, everyone should get the same number of lawyers, who all went to the same law school, who passed the bar with the same scores, no?

    You have the most wacky logic.

    If I went to jail, nothing will happen to any countries’ economy, no one(well, two) would loose their jobs, no one would see their personal wealth(except my own family) shrinking

    So you think a persons impact on the economy should determin his sentance? Wacky.
    .
    Just like the judge. Interesting how the so called smartest and fairest minds in corea are so biased and silly.

    Presiding Judge Lee Jae-hong said in court. “I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.”

    corean logic. pathetic….

  27. comment number 27 by: GarlicBreath

    Having said all of that, I think the sentence, and the public reactions would be vastly different if Mr. Chung had used the money largely for personal use. Instead, he used it to get contracts, to give employees’ bonuses, and to attract one international expo to the country.

    I am going to include your full quote in fairness. My question is,(assuming what you stated is true) why is what he did a still not good for him and his company? To me its not a good for the public, its still only good for him and his company.
    .
    If you steal from your company and give it to a team of employees as a bonus, is that OK? The company is public, not his piggy bank.
    .

    Also in a just justice system, the public reactions should not convict or pardon a person accused of a crime. I guess in corea there is still no justice.

  28. comment number 28 by: kjeff

    Egg,

    As a result, the difference in wealth might bring a different outcome, but it should not be the reason of the sentence. (Because it is irrelevant to the crime itself.) I mean when the accused is wealthy, he can hire able lawyers and he may win the case. But that is only a result. It should not be the reason of the sentences. The sentence itself shouldn`t state that “he is wealthy so I will let him win”. By equal I meant this. It is a different matter.

    I guess I wasn’t being clear; my point is, I think when judges are weighing the sentences, everything matters…and they’re trying to see beyond your “criminal” act. A person who is employed with family to support will get a lighter sentence than one who is not and does not. A person who had no previous record will get a lighter sentence than the one that had. A person who has shown remorse, and is less likely to repeat the crime will get a lighter sentence than the one that hasn’t and is. I think sometimes we got caught up in, “Well, he got off because he is rich,” that we forget everything else; Mr. Chung didn’t win a lottery to obtain that wealth. His past contributions to society and his future’s should matter.
    .
    I think you missed my questions on Mr. Tsutsumi. I’m curious to what had happened.
    .
    GarlicBreath,
    Hmmm…so far not getting a respond on what you think about the suspended sentence of the Japanese ex-governor…

    I am going to include your full quote in fairness. My question is,(assuming what you stated is true) why is what he did a still not good for him and his company? To me its not a good for the public, its still only good for him and his company.

    I agree with you. I don’t think what he did was good for the general public, and exposed that corruptions are alive and well. And yes, obviously if he hadn’t been caught, you could argue that what he did was good for the company and its stakeholders, and as one of largest company in Korea, it affects a lot of people’s life.
    .

    If you steal from your company and give it to a team of employees as a bonus, is that OK? The company is public, not his piggy bank.

    No, it’s not OK. I wonder why he didn’t just include those in the regular accounting. Bonuses, what’s the harm in that? I can only think of tax-evasions as motive here, but yes, it’s a puzzle.

  29. comment number 29 by: egg

    kjeff
    Thanks for your reply.

    I think you missed my questions on Mr. Tsutsumi. I’m curious to what had happened.

    Sorry, I noticed your question but I hadn`t the time to write about it yesterday. If you are still interested in it you can read some articles (There seems to be none from Japanese papers.) here. (WIKI stating his remaining in the company is wrong.)(With the case, the point I want to make is there is no reasoning in the sentence which states that suspention was given because of his social position. And he has resigned all of his previous posts.)
    .
    .

    If not, do you think “resigning” is more a punishment than going to jail, publicly humiliated, released, stand trial, convicted, appealed, turned down, receives suspended sentence and doing community services?

    No, the point I want to make is different.
    This is related with the yangbang thing. Suppose the sentences were fair, and there was no reasoning ” I was unwilling to engage in a gamble that would put the nation’s economy at risk.”. Still I think there is a probrem.
    .
    It seems there is little criticism against these tycoons remaining in their previous posts. (At least there were none in the papers which I read.) I am quite curious, why do S.Korean people accept criminals as leaders of listed companies? Why can these tycoons remain on their current position? I guess your logic will be “they have stocks to rule the company” but why don`t boycotts happen?
    1.Don`t S.Korean people feel a pity for their economic leaders being a criminal? There are occasion when they will attend to international conferences as a kind of representatives of S.Korean economic, business society. Won`t S.Korean people get embarrassed?
    2.Why can S.Korean people expect those two to make a calm appropriate decision in the future on the first place?
    3.If a guy`s influence is big enough he will be socially forgived. (At least he can remain on his current position. On the other hand I guess there are many people who get fired because they commit crime.) If not he won`t be. Now is it really fair? Is justice really served?
    4.If a similar incident (that is socialy important figure get accused) happens, will the S.Korean people accept him too? Won`t that mean there will be a class in the society which never need to resign their position, despite whatever they do? Even if not where will the line be drawn? .
    .
    If S.Korean people don`t take action now, won`t that mean they are accepting the privileges that come from the positions of these tycoons? And won`t these posisions start forming a class in a society?.
    .
    .

    My advice, is not to get caught up with number. What is majority anyway? I think the fact that there are dissenting opinions, and that they are free to be expressed is enough for me.

    The reason why I care about the majority is,
    1.I want to know where S.Korea is going.
    2.S.Korea is a democratic country.
    3.I will need to know the majority`s opinion.
    Putting that aside, I am enjoying the arguments itself with the posters (despite whether he is a majority or not) here including you. And thank you for your advice.

  30. comment number 30 by: egg

    kjeff

    I think when judges are weighing the sentences, everything matters…and they’re trying to see beyond your “criminal” act.

    A person who had no previous record will get a lighter sentence than the one that had. A person who has shown remorse, and is less likely to repeat the crime will get a lighter sentence than the one that hasn’t and is.

    I think so too, as long as the facts examined have some kind of relation with the crime itself. (I mean relation with circumstances and reforms.) My position is, social influence in the future does not.
    .

    A person who is employed with family to support will get a lighter sentence than one who is not and does not.

    When a sentence uses an existence of a family as a reason, I can understand it if it says “The family will help him recover”, or “The pressure to earn his family made him commit the crime and there is a room for sympathy”. But against your reasoning, I am sorry but I can`t. I think you can replace “family” with “social position” or “employee of the company” and if you do, I can agree. But the judge`s reasoning is not.

    His past contributions to society and his future’s should matter.

    I am reluctant but maybe I can walk towards you that his past contribution can be considered as one of the circumstances. (It can show his good aspects. And it can be a base for a claim that he can reform.) But his future`s cotribution can not be. It is not existing yet, it has nothing to do with the circumstances and reforms.

  31. comment number 31 by: kjeff

    Egg,
    I think we just have to agree to disagree on this, but if you want to read the negative reactions to the suspended sentence, you can read one of the articles(in English) here.
    BTW, I was mistaken. I thought Mr. Tsutsumi was connected to the Wakayama former governor’s case. I read that three(including the ex-governor) have been found guilty, and all have received suspended sentences. I guess, repent and resign are the way to go in Japan. Well, Mr. Chung did repent, a billion dollars worth of it, but… I doubt that Mr. Chung will resign his post soon. I think if God had asked him to resign, he probably wouldn’t. I think in 2000, his own father asked him to resign, because he favored his younger brother. And in a probably unprecedented move, in a deeply confucius Korea, he refused. Actually, in a sense, god asked him, and he did refuse.
    P.S. As for Mr. Kim, I think he should have served time. Well, he did, but a couple of months would have been more ideal. The crime is violent in nature, and he’d better die soon, or hospitalized, if only to justify his medical reasons.

  32. comment number 32 by: GarlicBreath

    Kpuppy you are so full of shit.

    Having said all of that, I think the sentence, and the public reactions would be vastly different if Mr. Chung had used the money largely for personal use. Instead, he used it to get contracts, to give employees’ bonuses, and to attract one international expo to the country.

    I looked into your claim, and I thought it was a lie. I was right.

    On Wednesday, the chairman of the government’s National Agricultural Cooperative Federation was jailed after being accused of accepting huge bribes from Hyundai in order to grease the way five years ago for the purchase, at a bargain price, of the beautiful Hyundai headquarters.

    Who do you think got screwed on that deal? The group that owned the land got screwed. Who gained? Hyundai and its chairman.

    lower court had sentenced Chung in February for embezzling the equivalent of more than $100 million in company money to set up a slush fund. Prosecutors say the fund was used to pay lobbyists to gain government favors and for personal use.

    PERSONAL USE

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    I thought you’re arguing that in KOREA, and in KOREA alone,

    NO I have not ever made the claim that ONLY in corea does this happen. no face.. tsk tsk tsk… shame…

  33. comment number 33 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,
    Hmmm…to think that I would be that “full of shit.”

    PERSONAL USE

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    From my comment that you yourself quoted above,

    Having said all of that, I think the sentence, and the public reactions would be vastly different if Mr. Chung had used the money largely for personal use. Instead, he used it to get contracts, to give employees’ bonuses, and to attract one international expo to the country.

    I guess I absent-mindedly put “largely”…maybe I like the sound of it, l-a-r-g-e-l-y. kakakakakkaka….(is that how you do it?) BTW, look it up what low percentage of that $100 millions was used for unspecified personal expense.
    Hint: You may not be able to count that high.
    .
    I know it’s hard to think that others don’t do what you’re normally do, but please…try…
    .

    NO I have not ever made the claim that ONLY in corea does this happen. no face.. tsk tsk tsk… shame…

    So it happens elsewhere, rich/powerful/connected people got off “easy.”(The quote marks were there for a reason, so think…) Then, how was the whole “neo-yangbang” thing necessary? And, if it also happens in your own backyard, why do you care? Note to… huh, I can’t remember who, “Are you not an altruist, kjeff?” is not an answer.
    Now, I’m going to ask a point-blank question? Do you think the former Wakayama governor should have served time?
    Tsk…tsk…tsk…you know that I’m not really interested in your answer, right? Aaahhh…a rock and a hard place. Oh well, you’re just going to avoid the question. Then again, surprise me…at least then, you can “kind of” write,

    Oh well, you’re just going to avoid the question.

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk.. LOL
    .
    I wonder how occidentalism.org do without you. At times, really…you are too good to be true, I won’t be surprised that Matt or Gerry got you a commission on the ads. Probably the only reason, well, there is HanComplex, this site is so much fun…

  34. comment number 34 by: egg

    kjeff
    Thank you for your link. I was relieved to know The Korean Times which seems to be a Korean capital company, was criticizing the incident. I think this opinion is valuable for S.Korea. (Maybe none of my business though.)

    I think we just have to agree to disagree on this

    Understood. Anyway, thank you for continuing this arguments with me, despite my poor English. It was fun. (At least it was for me.)
    .

    I guess, repent and resign are the way to go in Japan.

    Is it only in Japan? OINJ? 🙂 I believed it was a gloval standard.
    .
    Anyway thank you.

  35. comment number 35 by: GarlicBreath

    BTW, look it up what low percentage of that $100 millions was used for unspecified personal expense

    OK, give me a breakdown. Seeing how you seem to know where all the money went. I smell more BS.

    Do you think the former Wakayama governor should have served time?Tsk…tsk…tsk…
    you know that I’m not really interested in your answer, right?

    Yes, I know… I know because you are only interested in thread-jacking and spreading propaganda on “great corea”. That is why almost always the first comment you make is off topic. But to answer, yet one more off tipic (thread jack) of yours, and I am sure not the last, I don’t care about the guy.

    Also I never said this, and as far as I know, only you did.

    Oh well, you’re just going to avoid the question

    It is ironic that you would say that. You have left so many questions (on topic questions I might add) left unansewered. But I do admit that I don’t always answer the offtopic ones. If you want me to answer a question, stay on topic, and try and be polite. Being rude and arrogant is frouned upon by the rest of the world. AKA non Coreans.

  36. comment number 36 by: kjeff

    GarlicBreath,
    A much-needed conversation with oneself…

    Being rude and arrogant is frouned upon by the rest of the world.

    Kpuppy you are so full of shit.

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    NO I have not ever made the claim that ONLY in corea does this happen.

    In Korea, businessmen are above the law. He will be pardoned. Embezzling is not a crime in Korea if you are part of the elite, the “yangbang” if you will. Taking millions in bribes is acceptable for these same yangbang in Korea.

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    Chung Mong Goo was given a suspened sentance.

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    I think that Koreans have a great deal of sympathy for businessmen who lie, cheat and steal, and that is why nobody seems to care if they are pardoned.

    (GB’s own link)

    …some in South Korea had bitter words for the country‘s judges.

    “Instead of undoing injustice for the people, the judiciary simply patronizes the public,‘‘ Hwang Sun, deputy spokesman of South Korea‘s Democratic Labor Party, said in a statement on his party‘s website. “We knew that the judiciary was not fair to all, but these verdicts … have surpassed the unimaginable,‘‘ he wrote.

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    Maybe so. Can you support that? How many businessmen have been pardoned in Japan? None? One?

    kakakka.. kakak…

    Note: Suspended sentence is different from being pardoned, but since you don’t make the distinction…

    kakakka.. kakak…

    caught in a lie again. tsk tsk..

    no face.. tsk tsk tsk… shame…

  37. comment number 37 by: kteen

    Garlicbreath,
    Apart from the question of how impossible you are, where do you get all the time to post what you post? Out of the 86 posts here(excluding mine), it seems like over 40 are yours(I didn’t bother to count them all).

  38. comment number 38 by: GarlicBreath

    blockquote>I guess, repent and resign are the way to go in Japan. Well, Mr. Chung did repent, a billion dollars worth of it, but… I doubt that Mr. Chung will resign his post soon.

    More half truths from shady kpup.

    Hyundai Motor Co. said yesterday that it has completed selecting members for a committee that will oversee the use of funds promised by Hyundai Kia Automotive Group chairman Chung Mong-koo.

    The seven-member committee will oversee the distribution of 840 billion won ($894.3 million), which Chung pledged to donate to charity after an appeals court suspended the three-year sentence he received after being found guilty of embezzling company funds in February this year. In May, after the original three-year sentence was passed down, Chung had pledged to set up a 1 trillion won-fund to build cultural centers and carry out environmental and social projects. KH

    Mong-Goo pledged Hyundie money. HE ISN’T PAYING 1 Billion dollars, Hyundie is. Or I should say Hyundie shareholders.
    .
    First he embezzles for the benefit of himself, while screwing the shareholders, then as punishment he gives away more shareholder wealth and in the process becomes a huge philanthropist.
    .

    Chung had pledged to set up a 1 trillion won-fund to build cultural centers and carry out environmental and social projects.

    No wonder Mr Bevers thinks you are dishonest.

  39. comment number 39 by: kjeff

    From Kjeff a.k.a. KoreanJeff a.k.a. Kpuppy a.k.a. Kpup…
    GarlicBreath,
    Stop embarrassing yourself…please, learn to read…your claim can’t be confirmed even by the article that you quoted. If you still don’t have a clue, look up the word “oversee.” Why do I bother? The guy gets his kick from “childish”(come to think of it, an insult to most children) letters-play. Hyundie? Grow up for god’s sake!

    No wonder Mr Bevers thinks you are dishonest.

    First of all, aaarghhhh…what’s the point…
    But, since you brought up Gerry’s name into this…

  40. comment number 40 by: egg

    It seems one of the tycoons is going to resign some of his position. Again I am quite curious, why not all? Is it really a gloval standard, a sentenced criminal remaining in his position as a CEO in a company which is one of the country`s leading company? Why does the people allow him?

  41. comment number 41 by: Errol

    One rule for one set of chaebol lords and another rule for another set?

    Former Haitai chairman goes straight to jail does not pass out the door in a wheelchair.

  42. comment number 42 by: GarlicBreath

    The latest corean corruption scandal: SAMDUNG.

    Samsung’s Lee Family Accused Of Corrupt Dealings

    Samdung will pay fines and the lee family will go free. Business as usual, and in two years we will hear about yet one more scandal with Samdung.
    .
    The corean “yangbang” as many of you know, are the rulers of Corea. They are above the law, as I have pointed out many times before. Once again Garlic Breath has shown the real corea.

  43. comment number 43 by: GarlicBreath

    And yet one more Corean Yangbang freed.

    President Roh Moo-hyun granted amnesty to Daewoo’s Kim Woo-choong, 71, along with 74 other people, including convicted business leaders,

    If you are a corean yangbang, and you get caught stealing billions of dollars, you can count on a stern lecture and a slap on the wrist. LOL, Only in Corea…lol…
    .
    Corea will only get worse with a corrupt nutjob like le mung bak.
    .
    But nobody is more corrupt then “the snake” Banki Moon.

    Mr Ban has been criticised within the UN for paying such attention to South Korea since becoming the world’s top civil servant. Insiders speculate that he or his chief of staff, Kim Won Soo, harbour political ambitions in their homeland

    .

    Banki Moon flies around the planet in a jumbo jet (mr climate change) to go to a benefit concert for corean interests.

    The stop will add about 4,300 miles to Mr Ban’s itinerary and generate about 1,684lb extra of CO2 emissions for each member of his delegation.